| tomorrow can't come quick enough 14:17 - Oct 16 with 2020812 views | batman |
Not for us, but for Bury.
i was credit checking a potential customer and decided to nosey onto
BFC's file and was (or maybe not) supprised to see a new CCJ for circa £22k lodged
only Wednesday this week.
looks like they are in need of a bumper crowd tomorrow to settle some bills |  | | |  |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:02 - Jun 19 with 4953 views | judd |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:05 - Jun 19 by JumeirahDale |
In isolation, no.
If combined with another round of "pass the parcel of dog crap" that involves him taking a cash return on his quid (and quietly vanishing with "Bury FC Heritage Corner Flags Ltd" or whatever Bermudan shell company now owns the trophies and pot washer until they pop up on eBay in 2023) then it wouldn't surprise me.
75% edit following RAFCBLUE's helpful summary [Post edited 19 Jun 2019 20:38]
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Here... https://www.gov.uk/company-voluntary-arrangements |  |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:14 - Jun 19 with 4892 views | judd |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:37 - Jun 19 by ColDale |
Given Glenn Thomas has his murky hands all over these loans, is there a way that he could accumulate 75% and force through the penny in the pound? |
How would he accumulate 75% of the debt in order to force through a low level CVA repayment? | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:18 - Jun 19 with 4863 views | Katula |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:25 - Jun 19 by RAFCBLUE |
Steve Dale certainly knows how to pursue a positive outcome for himself.
I think he'll use this for the next stage of a wider plan which is clear - extract as much value from bury fc for that £1 invested.
The option for the judge today was put bury into administration. Dale beat them to it by suggesting it.
Except, rather than administration starting, a CVA proposal gets to be made (buying more time) and once reviewed accepted or not.
This is where Steve Dale can get canny.
He'll offer all creditors initially 1p in the £1 owed. They'll reject and then he'll offer 2p in the £1 owe and move from there.
The problem is, if you are a creditor, that at some point you need to deal, because on the 31 July you have to go in front of the judge again and he can liquidate bury fc. At that point as a creditor you might get nothing.
The bury Times rather helpfully summarised the position today for major creditors in court being:
Capital Bridge Finance - £3.5m
HMRC - £1.0m
Various others - £0.5m
Not in court today was the Mederco company owed £4.2m. That takes the rough overall debts to £9.2m plus players and staff owed wages.
£10m is a nice round figure to work with.
They now need 75% to agree a write-off which will affect the rest. £7.5m of the total.
The only way to achieve that is to get Merderco's administrator plus Capital Bridge Finance comfortable with the CVA.
The rest can't get to 75% and HMRC have no bite at all here, hence why they were keen to partner up with Capital Bridge Finance.
Why so pally?
Well, the answer lies in the Mederco Limited's administrator proposal.
The issues there are so big that the administrators have complete control of what happens. Essentially, make them a good offer and they will do a deal on that £4.2m.
That leaves Capital Bridge Finance who are owed £3.5m by bury fc but also money by Mederco - so entangled in the Stewart Day web they are they they could write some money off somewhere to gain some control somewhere else.
Steve Dale doesn't have to do a deal. Capital Bridge Finance's only other recourse is to support a winding up; see the ground sold off for housing and they get their money back. Any excess would go to creditors and then the balance to Steve Dale - who has a who £1 at risk.
In the next six weeks, if I was him with this agenda I would:
* See what lowball offer per pence in the pound I can get accepted as a consensus.
* Float that publically that it must be taken or else the very future of the club is at risk.
* Wait until the very last minute to see if that can be accepted - via rounds and rounds of independent negotiations across the various creditors.
* Negotiate down the debt knowing that the sale of the ground, less what I have to pay out is going to be coming to me.
Most people build wealth by being positive - investing, growing ideas etc.
Dale is doing, legally and properly, the opposite. He is taking something that is so broken and making it slightly better it is more valuable than £1.
If I was a bury fan I would be now caught with what to do.
No season ticket purchases = Dale's position strengthening.
No pre-season friendly support = Dale's position strengthening.
The next court date is in 42 days. The transfer window closes in 50.
They've no manager, no players and no cash.
They're on borrowed time regardless of which way this plays out.
Ironically the best thing bury fans could do is be nice to Dale. Try giving the bear a cuddle rather than making him grizzly.
If he doesn't want to sell his shares then there is no more bury - regardless of what they might think. |
Horrible reading it but have to say great post.
The grizzly bear is indeed in full control
Either way you look at it ultimately we are doomed | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:28 - Jun 19 with 4803 views | James1980 |
Is the value of the stadium as listed in the accounts. A true reflection of what it will fetch on the open market? If so that is a frightening amount of negative equity. | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:43 - Jun 19 with 4721 views | Thacks_Rabbits |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:28 - Jun 19 by James1980 |
Is the value of the stadium as listed in the accounts. A true reflection of what it will fetch on the open market? If so that is a frightening amount of negative equity. |
I wonder if the judge had a link to this thread sent 😂😂😂 |  |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:45 - Jun 19 with 4713 views | judd |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:28 - Jun 19 by James1980 |
Is the value of the stadium as listed in the accounts. A true reflection of what it will fetch on the open market? If so that is a frightening amount of negative equity. |
The stadium value was restated in a recent (arf) set of accounts that inflated the balance sheet. I think those accounts, along with others, carried notes from auditors about going concerns only with the support of directors. There is now a mortgage charge on the ground of c £3.5m of which 40% was paid elsewhere but the full amount is repayable by Bury.
I'm unsure as to the size of the site but I am currently sat on 3.5 acres of near town centre land prime for affordable housing development and I doubt I would raise much more than half Burys mortgage if we were to sell now. | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:46 - Jun 19 with 4708 views | James1980 |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:43 - Jun 19 by Thacks_Rabbits |
I wonder if the judge had a link to this thread sent 😂😂😂 |
🤔 Doubt they would be in existence if he had. | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:48 - Jun 19 with 4698 views | RAFCBLUE |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:28 - Jun 19 by James1980 |
Is the value of the stadium as listed in the accounts. A true reflection of what it will fetch on the open market? If so that is a frightening amount of negative equity. |
If you believe the accounts of bury as at May 2017:
* Stadium's historic cost is £681,982.
* Valuation: £5,449,000
* Revaluation uplift: £4,767,018
Capital Bridge Finance noted today they are owed £3.5m so that's a loan to value of 64%.
If the ground is worth £5,449,000 less the £3.5m mortgage then it means there is circa £1.9m there for someone.......
How many flats could you get on that site? Quite a few I suspect. |  |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:52 - Jun 19 with 4672 views | James1980 |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:48 - Jun 19 by RAFCBLUE |
If you believe the accounts of bury as at May 2017:
* Stadium's historic cost is £681,982.
* Valuation: £5,449,000
* Revaluation uplift: £4,767,018
Capital Bridge Finance noted today they are owed £3.5m so that's a loan to value of 64%.
If the ground is worth £5,449,000 less the £3.5m mortgage then it means there is circa £1.9m there for someone.......
How many flats could you get on that site? Quite a few I suspect. |
Phew I thought more than that was secured against that prestigious venue. | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:59 - Jun 19 with 4638 views | Quigley_dale |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:52 - Jun 19 by James1980 |
Phew I thought more than that was secured against that prestigious venue. |
Is the bury forum down at the moment, or have they banned me🤔🤣
Edit - back on. [Post edited 19 Jun 2019 22:02]
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:03 - Jun 19 with 4615 views | TVOS1907 |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:59 - Jun 19 by Quigley_dale |
Is the bury forum down at the moment, or have they banned me🤔🤣
Edit - back on. [Post edited 19 Jun 2019 22:02]
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Nope, still working. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:06 - Jun 19 with 4607 views | RAFCBLUE |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:52 - Jun 19 by James1980 |
Phew I thought more than that was secured against that prestigious venue. |
Is that ground worth £5.4m though?
What doesn't make any sense at all is how bury find themselves with a theoretical £1.9m of equity in their property - but owing close to and additional £6.5m of debt unsecured on the property.
Property debt of £3.5m + £6.5m of other debt getting me back to an estimated £10m.
We know that they poured cash in, via two rather large fractional car park schemes:
Scheme 1 - 258 car park spaces at Gigg Lane for £10k each - £2.58m.
Scheme 2 - 40 car park spaces at Appleton Point for £6k each - £0.24m
That's only £2.8m of the £6.5m
Some of the difference will be VAT monies (£1m in bury fc and £0.6m owed by Mederco) but there is still around £3.1m not understood as to how they have run up such a financial black hole. | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:18 - Jun 19 with 4569 views | James1980 |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:06 - Jun 19 by RAFCBLUE |
Is that ground worth £5.4m though?
What doesn't make any sense at all is how bury find themselves with a theoretical £1.9m of equity in their property - but owing close to and additional £6.5m of debt unsecured on the property.
Property debt of £3.5m + £6.5m of other debt getting me back to an estimated £10m.
We know that they poured cash in, via two rather large fractional car park schemes:
Scheme 1 - 258 car park spaces at Gigg Lane for £10k each - £2.58m.
Scheme 2 - 40 car park spaces at Appleton Point for £6k each - £0.24m
That's only £2.8m of the £6.5m
Some of the difference will be VAT monies (£1m in bury fc and £0.6m owed by Mederco) but there is still around £3.1m not understood as to how they have run up such a financial black hole. |
Buying and paying players they couldn't afford won't have helped. But none of those contributed to any success, goodness me no those players just helped out around the place | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:36 - Jun 19 with 4506 views | D_Alien |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:00 - Jun 19 by TVOS1907 |
Crude Signo! |
Wasn't that what happened when Joey Barton changed clubs? |  |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 23:04 - Jun 19 with 4405 views | Cleedale |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:25 - Jun 19 by RAFCBLUE |
Steve Dale certainly knows how to pursue a positive outcome for himself.
I think he'll use this for the next stage of a wider plan which is clear - extract as much value from bury fc for that £1 invested.
The option for the judge today was put bury into administration. Dale beat them to it by suggesting it.
Except, rather than administration starting, a CVA proposal gets to be made (buying more time) and once reviewed accepted or not.
This is where Steve Dale can get canny.
He'll offer all creditors initially 1p in the £1 owed. They'll reject and then he'll offer 2p in the £1 owe and move from there.
The problem is, if you are a creditor, that at some point you need to deal, because on the 31 July you have to go in front of the judge again and he can liquidate bury fc. At that point as a creditor you might get nothing.
The bury Times rather helpfully summarised the position today for major creditors in court being:
Capital Bridge Finance - £3.5m
HMRC - £1.0m
Various others - £0.5m
Not in court today was the Mederco company owed £4.2m. That takes the rough overall debts to £9.2m plus players and staff owed wages.
£10m is a nice round figure to work with.
They now need 75% to agree a write-off which will affect the rest. £7.5m of the total.
The only way to achieve that is to get Merderco's administrator plus Capital Bridge Finance comfortable with the CVA.
The rest can't get to 75% and HMRC have no bite at all here, hence why they were keen to partner up with Capital Bridge Finance.
Why so pally?
Well, the answer lies in the Mederco Limited's administrator proposal.
The issues there are so big that the administrators have complete control of what happens. Essentially, make them a good offer and they will do a deal on that £4.2m.
That leaves Capital Bridge Finance who are owed £3.5m by bury fc but also money by Mederco - so entangled in the Stewart Day web they are they they could write some money off somewhere to gain some control somewhere else.
Steve Dale doesn't have to do a deal. Capital Bridge Finance's only other recourse is to support a winding up; see the ground sold off for housing and they get their money back. Any excess would go to creditors and then the balance to Steve Dale - who has a who £1 at risk.
In the next six weeks, if I was him with this agenda I would:
* See what lowball offer per pence in the pound I can get accepted as a consensus.
* Float that publically that it must be taken or else the very future of the club is at risk.
* Wait until the very last minute to see if that can be accepted - via rounds and rounds of independent negotiations across the various creditors.
* Negotiate down the debt knowing that the sale of the ground, less what I have to pay out is going to be coming to me.
Most people build wealth by being positive - investing, growing ideas etc.
Dale is doing, legally and properly, the opposite. He is taking something that is so broken and making it slightly better it is more valuable than £1.
If I was a bury fan I would be now caught with what to do.
No season ticket purchases = Dale's position strengthening.
No pre-season friendly support = Dale's position strengthening.
The next court date is in 42 days. The transfer window closes in 50.
They've no manager, no players and no cash.
They're on borrowed time regardless of which way this plays out.
Ironically the best thing bury fans could do is be nice to Dale. Try giving the bear a cuddle rather than making him grizzly.
If he doesn't want to sell his shares then there is no more bury - regardless of what they might think. |
Thanks for that RAFC!
I might have to bin the 'Walker Book Of Bear Stories' for bedtime reading to the hounds. (They were getting a tad angry on occasion; trying to make out it wasn't really real)!
Great though that there's so many diverse posters on here and although not training to be a barrister or such, feel as though I'm getting my head around some of this saga when it's written like this.
Ta. | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 23:11 - Jun 19 with 4386 views | D_Alien |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 23:04 - Jun 19 by Cleedale |
Thanks for that RAFC!
I might have to bin the 'Walker Book Of Bear Stories' for bedtime reading to the hounds. (They were getting a tad angry on occasion; trying to make out it wasn't really real)!
Great though that there's so many diverse posters on here and although not training to be a barrister or such, feel as though I'm getting my head around some of this saga when it's written like this.
Ta. |
Very true
All we need now is a barista to come along and explain how to wake up and sniff coffee | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 23:12 - Jun 19 with 4380 views | Shun |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 23:04 - Jun 19 by Cleedale |
Thanks for that RAFC!
I might have to bin the 'Walker Book Of Bear Stories' for bedtime reading to the hounds. (They were getting a tad angry on occasion; trying to make out it wasn't really real)!
Great though that there's so many diverse posters on here and although not training to be a barrister or such, feel as though I'm getting my head around some of this saga when it's written like this.
Ta. |
Absolutely. The vast majority of this goes over my head but it’s good that we have posters like RAFCBLUE and judd around to put it all into something approaching understandable! |  | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 07:31 - Jun 20 with 4064 views | Quigley_dale |
Well it's taken 127 pages, and over half a million views, but it appears they've finally taken heed of this thread!
Even suggestions to email it to their MP... | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 08:21 - Jun 20 with 3976 views | Cleedale |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 07:31 - Jun 20 by Quigley_dale |
Well it's taken 127 pages, and over half a million views, but it appears they've finally taken heed of this thread!
Even suggestions to email it to their MP... |
...which would be all well and good...
...but isn't it MPs that have spent the last 3 years faffing about with a certain public vote that sort of became uncertain about it's certainty and certainly looks like heading in another uncertain direction.
In the words of Sir Marcus Browning MP...
"It's like looking for the black cat...in the dark room...that isn't there."
PS. From a Dale (us) point-of-view couldn't we get mileage out of this (money) with it being out there, something like YouTube where we get so many likes and sponsors that selling players is no longer the 'must do' for Rochdale?
PPS. Getting to sound like a MP now or maybe just a Barrista? | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 08:57 - Jun 20 with 3902 views | VivaDonaldo |
I do love how they like to reach for their history books!
Tale on their board of how our good relations with other clubs and a slice of luck preserved our league status during the re-election years.
Who'd have thought it. Being good and courteous to other clubs would inspire reciprocal action?
Much better to follow the modern day Bury approach!
Withhold ticket money for away games, strangle local small businesses by not paying bills and buy your way to promotion at the expense of other clubs.
If re-election was around these days, would Bury even get a vote? | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 11:09 - Jun 20 with 3704 views | ParkinsGimp |
This whole saga has now become a joke.
That club is an utter disgrace.
People's livelihoods are at stake here and the blind fans continue to bleat on about being hard done by. No mention of cheating...and cheating for a good 10 years or more.
The EFL are a joke, how are they going to set an example , since I now think this is an unprecedented situation.
I think 4 division demotion. To paraphase the Whealdstone Raider " You got no ground, you no no manager , you got no players"
Now feck off and start again at the bottom where you belong. | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 13:39 - Jun 20 with 3490 views | James1980 |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 14:16 - Jun 20 with 3401 views | kel |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 13:39 - Jun 20 by James1980 |
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Well at least it gives one of them plenty of time to design disparaging programme covers for games against clubs they don’t care about.
Every cloud and all that. |  | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 14:21 - Jun 20 with 3385 views | judd |
I think it has all been sorted now.
The Bury North MP has told Dale to "get his skates on".
Next, Brexit... | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 14:22 - Jun 20 with 3376 views | chalky_ncfc |
Do you have to register even to just look at Burys messageboard? | |
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