| Ollie 13:21 - Aug 25 with 34141 views | leedsdale |
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| Ollie on 13:26 - Aug 26 with 2905 views | NorthernDale |
I feel that with the present board, it is not if we sell Rathbone, but when and no where near £300,000 somebody suggested as a possible fee, but more likely to be at best £150,000 to £175,000. Because Mr B as made it clear to everyone in the country that we are skint and seemly desperate for money, so clubs will feel that they can make low bids for our players. |  | | |
| Ollie on 13:30 - Aug 26 with 2885 views | D_Alien |
Whilst the salary cap for Leagues One & Two might help maintain financial stability in the longer term, the attraction of playing and earning in the Championship and above for players with the potential to do so like Ollie becomes even greater, unfortunately
Once again, no-one has mentioned release clauses which might be written into his contract. Reading moans about lowish fees become irrelevant if a release clause is triggered; and attracting players of Ollie's quality in the first place might to some extent be dependent on having those trigger clauses built-in |  |
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| Ollie on 13:46 - Aug 26 with 2794 views | boromat |
| Ollie on 11:28 - Aug 26 by James1980 |
Did we get anything from Jamie's move to Coventry? |
I don't think so because I don't think Burton made anything from the transfer pretty much just got their money back. It was a strange transfer think it was more about reducing their wage bill than making money off of the transfer fee. Unless someone else knows something? | |
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| Ollie on 13:52 - Aug 26 with 2772 views | aleanddale |
If Ollie goes it will be a massive own goal by the board.
If he goes for peanuts then there is the kick in the Nuts!
I wish him all the best and a footballing career is a short one. Hull City v Dale is no contest we are chalk and cheese.
If we can keep him for one more season fantastic but his head needs to be in the right place to perform at the top of his game. Everything i hear is the lad is a top bloke so fingers crossed head space is at a premium and we can have one final season enjoying his skills and then he can go for what we hope is the right deal.
How the hell can we be that short on Cash after all the glamour ties last season plus significant player sales?. | | | |
| Ollie on 13:57 - Aug 26 with 2752 views | isitme |
| Ollie on 13:30 - Aug 26 by D_Alien |
Whilst the salary cap for Leagues One & Two might help maintain financial stability in the longer term, the attraction of playing and earning in the Championship and above for players with the potential to do so like Ollie becomes even greater, unfortunately
Once again, no-one has mentioned release clauses which might be written into his contract. Reading moans about lowish fees become irrelevant if a release clause is triggered; and attracting players of Ollie's quality in the first place might to some extent be dependent on having those trigger clauses built-in |
And that is the crux of the matter. We can sign players such as Rathbone on low wages on the understanding that if an acceptable (or what others may class as derisory) offer comes in then they can leave and further their career.
I have said it before and will say it again would you want to move to a different employer if you could have better working conditions and massively increase your wages? |  | | |
| Ollie on 14:04 - Aug 26 with 2709 views | SuddenLad |
| Ollie on 13:52 - Aug 26 by aleanddale |
If Ollie goes it will be a massive own goal by the board.
If he goes for peanuts then there is the kick in the Nuts!
I wish him all the best and a footballing career is a short one. Hull City v Dale is no contest we are chalk and cheese.
If we can keep him for one more season fantastic but his head needs to be in the right place to perform at the top of his game. Everything i hear is the lad is a top bloke so fingers crossed head space is at a premium and we can have one final season enjoying his skills and then he can go for what we hope is the right deal.
How the hell can we be that short on Cash after all the glamour ties last season plus significant player sales?. |
"How the hell can we be that short on Cash after all the glamour ties last season plus significant player sales?".
This keeps being asked over and over again. When you consider that all the Cup and TV money wasn't even budgeted for, it was manna from heaven to a club with a small, tight, reducing budget.
We surely aren't/can't be - in a position where we still have to offload Ollie (or anyone else) for another 'undisclosed fee' simply to keep the wolf from the door. Sorry, but I'm not having that as either a reason or excuse IF he leaves. Fair enough, he may well be talented enough to ply his trade elsewhere and there will be bigger clubs eyeing him up, that's normal, but we do always seem to be a soft touch.
It's time we heard a different tune, instead of pleading poverty at every opportunity. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Ollie on 14:05 - Aug 26 with 2709 views | fitzochris |
| Ollie on 13:57 - Aug 26 by isitme |
And that is the crux of the matter. We can sign players such as Rathbone on low wages on the understanding that if an acceptable (or what others may class as derisory) offer comes in then they can leave and further their career.
I have said it before and will say it again would you want to move to a different employer if you could have better working conditions and massively increase your wages? |
That's exactly the business model we have - with the caveat that the price has to be right for us as well as the player when said bigger club comes calling.
Some clubs take the piss with the offers they bang in, however. |  |
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| Ollie on 14:14 - Aug 26 with 2675 views | richfoad32 |
| Ollie on 13:26 - Aug 26 by NorthernDale |
I feel that with the present board, it is not if we sell Rathbone, but when and no where near £300,000 somebody suggested as a possible fee, but more likely to be at best £150,000 to £175,000. Because Mr B as made it clear to everyone in the country that we are skint and seemly desperate for money, so clubs will feel that they can make low bids for our players. |
To be fair, although Bottomley doesn't need to keep bleating on about it, everybody knows that a lot of teams are on their uppers in the current climate anyway, and are probably going to at least have to consider low-ball bids. On the plus side, any fee could at least be partly used for a bit of wiggle room to introduce some much needed depth to the squad. BBM's recruitment has been mostly positive so far and he seems to have an eye for a player. | | | |
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| Ollie on 14:27 - Aug 26 with 2625 views | Shun |
| Ollie on 13:26 - Aug 26 by NorthernDale |
I feel that with the present board, it is not if we sell Rathbone, but when and no where near £300,000 somebody suggested as a possible fee, but more likely to be at best £150,000 to £175,000. Because Mr B as made it clear to everyone in the country that we are skint and seemly desperate for money, so clubs will feel that they can make low bids for our players. |
I doubt it. Or rather I hope not. I’m sick of this attitude that we should be accepting derisory offers.
Anything less than £500K would be an embarrassment. This isn’t 2005 where we get all giddy-eyed at £300k bids. The market’s moved on a lot then, and the rate it’s increasing is also going up. We’re in an age where the top players in League One are attracting £10million bids, and even clubs like Northampton are selling players for £1m.
Ollie has two years left on his contract. He’s proved over a number of years he’s a good League One midfielder. And he’s one of our most important players. If we accept anything less than £500K the entire board need to be bent over a table and spanked until they feel as embarrassed as I’d feel telling people we accepted a sub-£500K fee for him. |  | | |
| Ollie on 14:28 - Aug 26 with 2623 views | D_Alien |
| Ollie on 14:05 - Aug 26 by fitzochris |
That's exactly the business model we have - with the caveat that the price has to be right for us as well as the player when said bigger club comes calling.
Some clubs take the piss with the offers they bang in, however. |
I'm guessing player's agents will know what the figure is to trigger a release clause, and will be informing the potential buyers. On that basis, putting in an offer below that level with the intention of unsettling the player might be seen as a gambit which then has the player raring to go when the trigger offer is made
Do you hear of this type of thing from your contacts? | |
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| Ollie on 14:33 - Aug 26 with 2588 views | isitme |
| Ollie on 14:28 - Aug 26 by D_Alien |
I'm guessing player's agents will know what the figure is to trigger a release clause, and will be informing the potential buyers. On that basis, putting in an offer below that level with the intention of unsettling the player might be seen as a gambit which then has the player raring to go when the trigger offer is made
Do you hear of this type of thing from your contacts? |
It's all a game in terms of sounding players out as teams are not supposed to approach players without an offer being accepted by his club, although this happens anyway. Selling clubs also play the game to drum up interest to try and increase fees. | | | |
| Ollie on 14:36 - Aug 26 with 2582 views | James1980 |
Are add ons included within sell on clauses? | |
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| Ollie on 14:39 - Aug 26 with 2574 views | fitzochris |
| Ollie on 14:28 - Aug 26 by D_Alien |
I'm guessing player's agents will know what the figure is to trigger a release clause, and will be informing the potential buyers. On that basis, putting in an offer below that level with the intention of unsettling the player might be seen as a gambit which then has the player raring to go when the trigger offer is made
Do you hear of this type of thing from your contacts? |
In this instance, I did. The contact hasn't been shy in letting other media folk know either - hence them tweeting about it.
Ollie doesn't have a release clause in his contract. | |
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| Ollie on 14:44 - Aug 26 with 2551 views | judd |
| Ollie on 13:52 - Aug 26 by aleanddale |
If Ollie goes it will be a massive own goal by the board.
If he goes for peanuts then there is the kick in the Nuts!
I wish him all the best and a footballing career is a short one. Hull City v Dale is no contest we are chalk and cheese.
If we can keep him for one more season fantastic but his head needs to be in the right place to perform at the top of his game. Everything i hear is the lad is a top bloke so fingers crossed head space is at a premium and we can have one final season enjoying his skills and then he can go for what we hope is the right deal.
How the hell can we be that short on Cash after all the glamour ties last season plus significant player sales?. |
I'm baffled by the first sentence.
The Board have him under contract without a release clause (so I believe).
What else should they have done? |  |
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| Ollie on 14:47 - Aug 26 with 2531 views | isitme |
| Ollie on 14:36 - Aug 26 by James1980 |
Are add ons included within sell on clauses? |
It depends, transfers can be so complex, hence why there are lots of 'undisclosed fees', much to the annoyance of supporters. There are lots of good books written by agents which highlight a lot of the complexities of transfers.
Player R - Sold to a club where he signs a three year deal.
Installment 1 - £150,000
Installment 2 - £100,000
Installment 3 - £50,000
Promotion bonus - £50,000
Appearance fee - £1,000 per game, up to 100 games
20% sell on clause on all profit
What is the transfer fee? [Post edited 26 Aug 2020 14:59]
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| Ollie on 15:05 - Aug 26 with 2452 views | James1980 |
| Ollie on 14:47 - Aug 26 by isitme |
It depends, transfers can be so complex, hence why there are lots of 'undisclosed fees', much to the annoyance of supporters. There are lots of good books written by agents which highlight a lot of the complexities of transfers.
Player R - Sold to a club where he signs a three year deal.
Installment 1 - £150,000
Installment 2 - £100,000
Installment 3 - £50,000
Promotion bonus - £50,000
Appearance fee - £1,000 per game, up to 100 games
20% sell on clause on all profit
What is the transfer fee? [Post edited 26 Aug 2020 14:59]
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£300,000 plus add ons? If the sell on clause was say £500,000. Could the buying club offer £300k in installments and offer an add ons package that could potentially lead to a lot more. | |
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| Ollie on 15:19 - Aug 26 with 2389 views | isitme |
| Ollie on 15:05 - Aug 26 by James1980 |
£300,000 plus add ons? If the sell on clause was say £500,000. Could the buying club offer £300k in installments and offer an add ons package that could potentially lead to a lot more. |
£300,000 plus add ons would be one way of announcing it, or should it be a fee of up to £450,000? Even announcing a fee of £300,000/£500,000 etc is a bit misleading as often it will be paid in installments over the lifetime of the contract. An up front fee is rarely upfront.
When supporters question where transfer fee income as gone, most of the time we will still be waiting on much of it.
A buying club could offer allsorts of add ons depending on what the release clause is an how it is written. As always, the devil is in the detail!
The most common add ons are things like:
- Percentage profit from a subsequent transfer.
- Appearance related fees.
- Promotion/cup success fees.
You may also see things such as:
- Goals related fees.
- International call up fees.
- Champions League qualification.
Sometimes these might be time limited as well, such as appearances limited to the duration of the initial contract. The Chelsea transfer of Kai Havertz is supposed to be up to £90 million but I suspect that contains clauses galore and the 'up front fee ( possibly spread over the length of a five year contract)' will be lower. [Post edited 26 Aug 2020 15:20]
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| Ollie on 16:07 - Aug 26 with 2215 views | kel |
| Ollie on 14:04 - Aug 26 by SuddenLad |
"How the hell can we be that short on Cash after all the glamour ties last season plus significant player sales?".
This keeps being asked over and over again. When you consider that all the Cup and TV money wasn't even budgeted for, it was manna from heaven to a club with a small, tight, reducing budget.
We surely aren't/can't be - in a position where we still have to offload Ollie (or anyone else) for another 'undisclosed fee' simply to keep the wolf from the door. Sorry, but I'm not having that as either a reason or excuse IF he leaves. Fair enough, he may well be talented enough to ply his trade elsewhere and there will be bigger clubs eyeing him up, that's normal, but we do always seem to be a soft touch.
It's time we heard a different tune, instead of pleading poverty at every opportunity. |
Either way there’ll more than likely be a copy and paste appearing on a Facebook page before the day is out. |  | | |
| Ollie on 16:28 - Aug 26 with 2145 views | SaxonDale |
I don't think we're yet to see Ollie at his absolute best for a prolonged period of time due to injuries and competition for places. I'd be inclined to gamble and (unless we receive a daft bid) hold off until January in the hope he can string 15-20 games together- I'm sure if he can manage that his value will rise considerably. |  | | |
| Ollie on 16:44 - Aug 26 with 2091 views | James1980 |
| Ollie on 15:19 - Aug 26 by isitme |
£300,000 plus add ons would be one way of announcing it, or should it be a fee of up to £450,000? Even announcing a fee of £300,000/£500,000 etc is a bit misleading as often it will be paid in installments over the lifetime of the contract. An up front fee is rarely upfront.
When supporters question where transfer fee income as gone, most of the time we will still be waiting on much of it.
A buying club could offer allsorts of add ons depending on what the release clause is an how it is written. As always, the devil is in the detail!
The most common add ons are things like:
- Percentage profit from a subsequent transfer.
- Appearance related fees.
- Promotion/cup success fees.
You may also see things such as:
- Goals related fees.
- International call up fees.
- Champions League qualification.
Sometimes these might be time limited as well, such as appearances limited to the duration of the initial contract. The Chelsea transfer of Kai Havertz is supposed to be up to £90 million but I suspect that contains clauses galore and the 'up front fee ( possibly spread over the length of a five year contract)' will be lower. [Post edited 26 Aug 2020 15:20]
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Makes the undisclosed plus add ons line make much more sense. Is it the agent that leaks the figures usually though? | |
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| Ollie on 17:11 - Aug 26 with 1965 views | isitme |
| Ollie on 16:44 - Aug 26 by James1980 |
Makes the undisclosed plus add ons line make much more sense. Is it the agent that leaks the figures usually though? |
Most of the time the full details don't make it out and you will see Sky Sports News saying Chilwell signing for Chelsea for a fee believed to be in the region of £50 million.
Agents, buying/selling clubs, journalists may all leak parts of deals to further some form of agenda. For example setting parameters for other deals. Clubs may release snippets to show that their £40 million flop 'only' cost £20 as the criteria for the add ons will never get met. Journalists may leak information for clicks, likes, jobs or as a favour for players/agents/clubs.
The whole business of transfers is both complex and in my opinion fascinating. Often it's a game of cat and mouse. | | | |
| Ollie on 17:17 - Aug 26 with 1932 views | electricblue |
Selling Ollie in my opinion would significantly weaken the squad..
It would be a master stroke if BBM could find a replacement of his calibre..
As somebody mentioned Dale need to stop selling at this buckshee £300k and start looking further up the scale.... |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Ollie on 17:25 - Aug 26 with 1897 views | fitzochris |
| Ollie on 17:11 - Aug 26 by isitme |
Most of the time the full details don't make it out and you will see Sky Sports News saying Chilwell signing for Chelsea for a fee believed to be in the region of £50 million.
Agents, buying/selling clubs, journalists may all leak parts of deals to further some form of agenda. For example setting parameters for other deals. Clubs may release snippets to show that their £40 million flop 'only' cost £20 as the criteria for the add ons will never get met. Journalists may leak information for clicks, likes, jobs or as a favour for players/agents/clubs.
The whole business of transfers is both complex and in my opinion fascinating. Often it's a game of cat and mouse. |
“ Journalists may leak information for clicks, likes, jobs or as a favour for players/agents/clubs.”
Or to provide a service to fellow supporters due to the lack of a decent local media presence:) | |
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| Ollie on 17:28 - Aug 26 with 1879 views | isitme |
| Ollie on 17:25 - Aug 26 by fitzochris |
“ Journalists may leak information for clicks, likes, jobs or as a favour for players/agents/clubs.”
Or to provide a service to fellow supporters due to the lack of a decent local media presence:) |
Absolutely! And it is much appreciated. I suspect you will be able to add loads more to James' questions. | | | |
| Ollie on 17:45 - Aug 26 with 1826 views | James1980 |
| Ollie on 17:28 - Aug 26 by isitme |
Absolutely! And it is much appreciated. I suspect you will be able to add loads more to James' questions. |
Do NDA's ever get signed as part of a transfer contract? | |
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