| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 10:16 - Dec 15 with 1463 views | saint901 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 23:22 - Dec 14 by saint68 |
So Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock are credible and honest...Subjecting under 12yr olds is a positive move..
Granting people a passport even though they still transmit and ingest the very thing they're vaccinated against is fukin illogical in any other aspect of life unless you're brainwashed by covid media bullshit
Logic has been abandoned.. |
Mr 68, I fear you may be letting your dislike of Johnson/Hancock or authority in general from seeing a clear picture.
The vaccinating children is a choice for them and their parents. The purpose as far as I can see is to reduce the viral load in the population and thereby restrict the possible mutations (that all viruses do). Further, as you say, vaccination does not mean that you cannot transmit the disease, possibly to people significantly more vulnerable than a 12 year old. Children are not well known for being disciplined about social distancing.
A "passport" (a provocative term which suits some to use but not accurate) is a device that allows large scale events to go ahead in relative safety. At the start of the pandemic the Cheltenham Festival went ahead and allowed the virus a vital foothold. That can happen again. The vaccine will not prevent that but will reduce the impact for those unlucky enough to contract the disease. SFC for example want to ensure that the supporters in the ground are - as far as the club can check - unlikely to become seriously ill or die. (Doesn't look good in the papers and probably invalidates their PL cover).
Having checked that supporters are vaccinated and seeking to check those not vaccinated are not infected, they can stay open, collect the ticket money and provide "entertainment" for us.
So the "passport" has nothing to do with health and everything to do with buisiness.
Perfectly logical |  | |  |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 11:04 - Dec 15 with 1426 views | saint68 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 10:16 - Dec 15 by saint901 |
Mr 68, I fear you may be letting your dislike of Johnson/Hancock or authority in general from seeing a clear picture.
The vaccinating children is a choice for them and their parents. The purpose as far as I can see is to reduce the viral load in the population and thereby restrict the possible mutations (that all viruses do). Further, as you say, vaccination does not mean that you cannot transmit the disease, possibly to people significantly more vulnerable than a 12 year old. Children are not well known for being disciplined about social distancing.
A "passport" (a provocative term which suits some to use but not accurate) is a device that allows large scale events to go ahead in relative safety. At the start of the pandemic the Cheltenham Festival went ahead and allowed the virus a vital foothold. That can happen again. The vaccine will not prevent that but will reduce the impact for those unlucky enough to contract the disease. SFC for example want to ensure that the supporters in the ground are - as far as the club can check - unlikely to become seriously ill or die. (Doesn't look good in the papers and probably invalidates their PL cover).
Having checked that supporters are vaccinated and seeking to check those not vaccinated are not infected, they can stay open, collect the ticket money and provide "entertainment" for us.
So the "passport" has nothing to do with health and everything to do with buisiness.
Perfectly logical |
The very same people that will visit a pub or two before and after the game without producing a passport and be in an indoor environment...yep it's all really logical and joined up isn't it.
You mention Cheltenham and the main areas that were highlighted for the transmissions were the hospitality bars and toilets and obviously hotels and transport...so they really need the passport if we're being logical. | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 11:42 - Dec 15 with 1411 views | dirk_doone |
Yes. it is a weird anomaly. I went to a concert at the Barbican, where everyone had to wear masks to enter the building and also throughout the concert yet in the bar area in between, because it was a bar, no one had to wear masks and almost no one did. I guess the same rule will apply at St Mary's. You can forget the mask for as long as you have an alcoholic drink in your hand. This is because, obviously, alcohol prevents you catching COVID.
[Post edited 15 Dec 2021 11:59]
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 12:08 - Dec 15 with 1384 views | saint901 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 11:04 - Dec 15 by saint68 |
The very same people that will visit a pub or two before and after the game without producing a passport and be in an indoor environment...yep it's all really logical and joined up isn't it.
You mention Cheltenham and the main areas that were highlighted for the transmissions were the hospitality bars and toilets and obviously hotels and transport...so they really need the passport if we're being logical. |
I'm not suggesting that the campaign is consistent nor that there are not elements that are contradictory.
Gov't cannot anticipate and legislate for every situation. They can provide guidelines and in some instances impose sanctions.
Ultimately however it's about adults considering the information available and making a judgement as to what risks they are prepared to take. If you want to visit a pub and risk infection - that's your choice.
I'm not sure what source verifies a claim that the issues at Cheltenham were mainly from bars or toilets. Having been to that Festival there is an awful lot of over crowding everywhere.
The Covid pass (Passport is a term invented to create negative connotations) is there to provide people with some confidence that their risk of infection and serious consequence is reduced - not eliminated. It's a balance between being careful and life as we knew it pre pandemic.
You don't have to have one to go the match. A negative test is enough.
If you choose to go and fake a negative test then the only sanction is your own conscience. | | | |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 12:17 - Dec 15 with 1378 views | DorsetIan |
68 is not interested in managing the virus so his comments about the 'illogicality' of certain measures need to be read in that context. In other words, he is not genuinely interested in whether the measures are effect or not, he simply wants to continue his general campaign of Covid criticism/misinformation.
On the substantive point. If people could conceivably mix in places A,B,C and D, while it might seem strange to try to mitigate their mixing in A, B and C while allowing them to mix unrestrained in D, it is nevertheless better, and involving some degree of mitigation, for them to mix unrestrained only in D and not in all 4. | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 13:28 - Dec 15 with 1339 views | geezershoong1 |
They've bought 7 vaccines per person and that surplus has to be shifted.
So you've only got 4 more to go... |  |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 15:09 - Dec 15 with 1289 views | saint901 |
I'm sure Mr 68 has some valid points in his posts and he is correct that there are inconsistencies.
We sit and watch at St Mary's with no masks. Player is injured and the trainers come on wearing masks. Makes no sense.
Being fairly new here I am intrigued by Mr 68's situation, It started (for me) as a stream of criticism around Covid and the reaction to it > Gov't (esp Tories) > the UK as a place to live and enjoy whatever freedoms we have > the gullibility of the UK citizens.
I'm not clear where his/her motive lies and I don't want to accept others views of his/her motives and objectives.
Clearly I have no right to be better informed and could be told to mind my own business but I am interested. | | | |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 15:22 - Dec 15 with 1284 views | PaleRider |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 15:09 - Dec 15 by saint901 |
I'm sure Mr 68 has some valid points in his posts and he is correct that there are inconsistencies.
We sit and watch at St Mary's with no masks. Player is injured and the trainers come on wearing masks. Makes no sense.
Being fairly new here I am intrigued by Mr 68's situation, It started (for me) as a stream of criticism around Covid and the reaction to it > Gov't (esp Tories) > the UK as a place to live and enjoy whatever freedoms we have > the gullibility of the UK citizens.
I'm not clear where his/her motive lies and I don't want to accept others views of his/her motives and objectives.
Clearly I have no right to be better informed and could be told to mind my own business but I am interested. |
Don't expect any sanity - this is a football forum! However, I like the fact that there is a wide variety of views - not always easy to understand ,though. | | | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 15:37 - Dec 15 with 1275 views | dirk_doone |
It always looked like it was too much of a coincidence that it started just outside a coronavirus research lab. I remember seeing an interview with a scientist at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, who collected coranavirus samples from the wild and then tinkered with them in the lab to see how they might mutate. I guess she meant well:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/wuhan-lab-leak-now-the-most-likely-origin-o [Post edited 15 Dec 2021 18:58]
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 15:48 - Dec 15 with 1257 views | DorsetIan |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 15:22 - Dec 15 by PaleRider |
Don't expect any sanity - this is a football forum! However, I like the fact that there is a wide variety of views - not always easy to understand ,though. |
I too like a wide variety of views. I hear a wider variety of views on here than anywhere else in my life.
But I like people to be honest and to say things in good faith.
68 is so partial, so happy to post absolutely any old sh!t that undermines vaccines or Covid control measures, and so unable to acknowledge any evidence that goes against this narrative (particularly the enormous amount of evidence that vaccines work and that being unvaccinated seriously undermines your health chances) that I simply don't believe that he is genuinely concerned about the control of Covid or of public health in general.
Whether his real motivation, like so many anti-vaxxers, is to promote a ridiculous libertarian agenda/'conspiracy fantasy' that we are on the cusp of an authoritarian takeover, I don't know.
I do know that when it comes to talking about anything to do with Covid he is not interested in the truth, only in promoting his nutcase world view. It's a mistake to take such people seriously. | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 16:19 - Dec 15 with 1247 views | 1885_SFC |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 15:37 - Dec 15 by dirk_doone |
It always looked like it was too much of a coincidence that it started just outside a coronavirus research lab. I remember seeing an interview with a scientist at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, who collected coranavirus samples from the wild and then tinkered with them in the lab to see how they might mutate. I guess she meant well:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/wuhan-lab-leak-now-the-most-likely-origin-o [Post edited 15 Dec 2021 18:58]
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I've said and firmly believed, from day 1, that this all started in a lab in Wuhan. I've read nothing since that has changed my mind one tiny bit. Indeed, the Chinese authorities - if you remember - finally allowed a team of Western experts to view the lab... but only reluctantly & after months of repeatedly asking them for admittance. Even when the WHO team arrived in Wuhan, the Chinese said "Oh, you've all got the wrong paperwork & will have to stay in a nearby hotel for a couple of days until it's sorted." I read that as 'We haven't quite covered all our tracks yet'.
Call me cynical. Maybe one day the truth will emerge. In reality though, the Chinese are probably making sure that everyone who worked there at the time "disappears". Dr Li Wenliang, who blew the whistle in the very early days of the virus, was soon silenced and is dead now.
From Hong Kong & Taiwan to the Uighurs & human rights - China cannot be trusted on anything she ever says or promises. |  |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 16:29 - Dec 15 with 1243 views | 1885_SFC |
78,610 new cases today - the most since Covid started. Boris is on the telly again at 5.00 pm. I reckon it'll be a lot more than that per day after Christmas mixing with family & friends. | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 16:39 - Dec 15 with 1236 views | PaleRider |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 16:19 - Dec 15 by 1885_SFC |
I've said and firmly believed, from day 1, that this all started in a lab in Wuhan. I've read nothing since that has changed my mind one tiny bit. Indeed, the Chinese authorities - if you remember - finally allowed a team of Western experts to view the lab... but only reluctantly & after months of repeatedly asking them for admittance. Even when the WHO team arrived in Wuhan, the Chinese said "Oh, you've all got the wrong paperwork & will have to stay in a nearby hotel for a couple of days until it's sorted." I read that as 'We haven't quite covered all our tracks yet'.
Call me cynical. Maybe one day the truth will emerge. In reality though, the Chinese are probably making sure that everyone who worked there at the time "disappears". Dr Li Wenliang, who blew the whistle in the very early days of the virus, was soon silenced and is dead now.
From Hong Kong & Taiwan to the Uighurs & human rights - China cannot be trusted on anything she ever says or promises. |
Personally, I blame Gao | | | |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 17:14 - Dec 15 with 1208 views | GasGiant |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 23:22 - Dec 14 by saint68 |
So Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock are credible and honest...Subjecting under 12yr olds is a positive move..
Granting people a passport even though they still transmit and ingest the very thing they're vaccinated against is fukin illogical in any other aspect of life unless you're brainwashed by covid media bullshit
Logic has been abandoned.. |
I don't understand how you can read so much about this pandemic yet still fail to grasp the basics of how a vaccination programme works. We are still a world leader in virology and immunology yet you prefer to get snippets of irrelevant or misused jpurnalistic data rather than simply refer to the output of the Oxford team who were at the forefront of the original race to produce a vaccine, which they did. They know more than just about anyone in the world now , and certainly more than any journalist under pressure to write tomorrows sensationalist and politicised chip wrapping. A vaccine is not a preventative medicine, so it won't necesarily stop you getting ill, but it reduces the probability and the severity by pre-arming your own antibodies before the virus strikes. If you do get covid you would have a worse time of it were you not vaccinated first. You may still get ill but you may also have died. Vaccines reduce fatalities and infections but do not stop either completely. The reason omicron has not killed more is because of the vaccination programme and because of poor extrapolations of data. To argue that the vaccine is unnecessary because of the small number of deaths is putting the cart before the horse. Did you in the past refuse to take antibiotics because they were "experimental"? I doubt you ever even checked the name on the packet before gulping them down. Viruses are more tricky but it's a similar principle. | | | |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 17:22 - Dec 15 with 1202 views | DorsetIan |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 17:14 - Dec 15 by GasGiant |
I don't understand how you can read so much about this pandemic yet still fail to grasp the basics of how a vaccination programme works. We are still a world leader in virology and immunology yet you prefer to get snippets of irrelevant or misused jpurnalistic data rather than simply refer to the output of the Oxford team who were at the forefront of the original race to produce a vaccine, which they did. They know more than just about anyone in the world now , and certainly more than any journalist under pressure to write tomorrows sensationalist and politicised chip wrapping. A vaccine is not a preventative medicine, so it won't necesarily stop you getting ill, but it reduces the probability and the severity by pre-arming your own antibodies before the virus strikes. If you do get covid you would have a worse time of it were you not vaccinated first. You may still get ill but you may also have died. Vaccines reduce fatalities and infections but do not stop either completely. The reason omicron has not killed more is because of the vaccination programme and because of poor extrapolations of data. To argue that the vaccine is unnecessary because of the small number of deaths is putting the cart before the horse. Did you in the past refuse to take antibiotics because they were "experimental"? I doubt you ever even checked the name on the packet before gulping them down. Viruses are more tricky but it's a similar principle. |
Once you accept that he is not interested in the truth and only interested in pushing a line, then it is not difficult to understand at all.
He is not interested in 'grasping' the basics or anything else. He has bigger fish to fry. | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 08:52 - Dec 16 with 1106 views | saint68 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 15:37 - Dec 15 by dirk_doone |
It always looked like it was too much of a coincidence that it started just outside a coronavirus research lab. I remember seeing an interview with a scientist at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, who collected coranavirus samples from the wild and then tinkered with them in the lab to see how they might mutate. I guess she meant well:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/wuhan-lab-leak-now-the-most-likely-origin-o [Post edited 15 Dec 2021 18:58]
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I remember when one of the Oxford team was on a live Breakfast news show and thanked the Chinese for handing the university the code sequencing that enabled a far quicker processing time and subsequent vaccine.
The Wuhan Laboratory has been funded on occasions by the good ole USofA...in fact they've questioned the goings on in that institute for at least 13 years or so.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-us-cash-funded-wuhan-lab-dealing-in-deadl | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:20 - Dec 16 with 1096 views | saint68 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 15:09 - Dec 15 by saint901 |
I'm sure Mr 68 has some valid points in his posts and he is correct that there are inconsistencies.
We sit and watch at St Mary's with no masks. Player is injured and the trainers come on wearing masks. Makes no sense.
Being fairly new here I am intrigued by Mr 68's situation, It started (for me) as a stream of criticism around Covid and the reaction to it > Gov't (esp Tories) > the UK as a place to live and enjoy whatever freedoms we have > the gullibility of the UK citizens.
I'm not clear where his/her motive lies and I don't want to accept others views of his/her motives and objectives.
Clearly I have no right to be better informed and could be told to mind my own business but I am interested. |
My main issues are the false figures spouted from authority, the need to insert (WITH instead of, Of) to inflate the real impact...thats happened since day one and still continues this very day....
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10312819/NHS-urged-stop-counting-thousa
The extent that usually curious people have fallen silent and unwilling to question so many anomalies over past 20 months
The rise of hatred and despisal of those that wish to make their own choice on vaccine uptake
The illogical, at many periods throughout by government in regards to regulations.
The government pass out false information on a regular basis..and people aren't challenging these clear lies in any form..Dominic Raab Monday morning claiming on live TV that there were 250 omicron patients in NHS BEDS..Real figure was 9..the day prior it was 10 and sadly that drop of one was the first death WITH Omicron..no statement as to the underlying heath issues the patient had.
I don't feel comfortable subjecting anyone under 18 to a vaccine that hasn't had any long term side effects data.and moreover if they aren't in any real risk of dying..people then jump onto the transmission to granny bandwagon..that says more about them than they know!! Because Granny or Grandad are probably fully or even triple jabbed by now..which then brings in the vaccine validity query again.
Not one country is going to stop trying to inject any living human with a pulse...the pan/endemic could fizzle away and we'd still be jabbing away..
But hey ho..I'm just a nutcase/crackpot and a deranged twà t to some brain dead morons on here. | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:36 - Dec 16 with 1093 views | saint901 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 08:52 - Dec 16 by saint68 |
I remember when one of the Oxford team was on a live Breakfast news show and thanked the Chinese for handing the university the code sequencing that enabled a far quicker processing time and subsequent vaccine.
The Wuhan Laboratory has been funded on occasions by the good ole USofA...in fact they've questioned the goings on in that institute for at least 13 years or so.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-us-cash-funded-wuhan-lab-dealing-in-deadl |
The Wuhan laboratory was (and probably still is) a world leading coronavirus research facility. It has been working on the virus for decades and is acknowledged as having expertise. It's really not surprising that they have sequenced the family and that the sequence will have 95% or more in common with ALL coronaviruses.
The funding of the Wuhan facility by the USA is alleged and denied in certain US circles. It is however a fact that the US (and the UK and most of the western world) fund research that would be difficult (politically, legally, morally) in their own backyard. This is not limited to coronavirus. Read the article carefully and without bias.
Presumably the purpose of the post is to imply that the pandemic is a planned event? If so where is the proof? Saying that a couple of entirely unrelated and not very surprising events are evidence of something (I'm still not clear what) sinister without any link or causal effect is pointless.
(Unless of course the point is to trigger people like me into wasting more time). | | | |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:38 - Dec 16 with 1092 views | saint68 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:36 - Dec 16 by saint901 |
The Wuhan laboratory was (and probably still is) a world leading coronavirus research facility. It has been working on the virus for decades and is acknowledged as having expertise. It's really not surprising that they have sequenced the family and that the sequence will have 95% or more in common with ALL coronaviruses.
The funding of the Wuhan facility by the USA is alleged and denied in certain US circles. It is however a fact that the US (and the UK and most of the western world) fund research that would be difficult (politically, legally, morally) in their own backyard. This is not limited to coronavirus. Read the article carefully and without bias.
Presumably the purpose of the post is to imply that the pandemic is a planned event? If so where is the proof? Saying that a couple of entirely unrelated and not very surprising events are evidence of something (I'm still not clear what) sinister without any link or causal effect is pointless.
(Unless of course the point is to trigger people like me into wasting more time). |
It's a response to Dirk in regards to the ground zero assumption being Wuhan..nothing else. | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 10:01 - Dec 16 with 1073 views | saint901 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:20 - Dec 16 by saint68 |
My main issues are the false figures spouted from authority, the need to insert (WITH instead of, Of) to inflate the real impact...thats happened since day one and still continues this very day....
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10312819/NHS-urged-stop-counting-thousa
The extent that usually curious people have fallen silent and unwilling to question so many anomalies over past 20 months
The rise of hatred and despisal of those that wish to make their own choice on vaccine uptake
The illogical, at many periods throughout by government in regards to regulations.
The government pass out false information on a regular basis..and people aren't challenging these clear lies in any form..Dominic Raab Monday morning claiming on live TV that there were 250 omicron patients in NHS BEDS..Real figure was 9..the day prior it was 10 and sadly that drop of one was the first death WITH Omicron..no statement as to the underlying heath issues the patient had.
I don't feel comfortable subjecting anyone under 18 to a vaccine that hasn't had any long term side effects data.and moreover if they aren't in any real risk of dying..people then jump onto the transmission to granny bandwagon..that says more about them than they know!! Because Granny or Grandad are probably fully or even triple jabbed by now..which then brings in the vaccine validity query again.
Not one country is going to stop trying to inject any living human with a pulse...the pan/endemic could fizzle away and we'd still be jabbing away..
But hey ho..I'm just a nutcase/crackpot and a deranged twà t to some brain dead morons on here. |
Thank you for not telling me to mind my own business.
I would agree that the "authorities" have made the most of the numbers but we need to examine why. It could be either because they have a genuine concern that this disease can kill many more than it has (and the dead cannot vote and the relatives of the dead will not vote for a Gov't that allowed the death) or some other less altruistic and perhaps conspiratorial reason.
My view is that Joe Public has been numbed to certain realities by a constant feed of partial messages that have to be SHOCKING!! or AMAZING!! to grab their attention. The mundane "look after yourself and those around you" does not play to the audience.
I see this in my work every day and it's obvious that the social scientists driving the Gov't message are working on the theory that without dramatic language, nothing gets through.
(I would however warn against anything you read in the Mail being taken at face value).
False information? Probably not. Incomplete, out of context and selective, absolutely. But that's politics. This has been the case for 300 years during wars, disaster and pandemics.
All vaccines have to trialed. It so happens that the pandemic means that it's real time. Because we do not have a virus killer but only a vaccine that mitigates symptoms, it's important that transmission is limited. Viral load in vaccinated people is lower than unvaccinated and ergo, less likely to be passed on.
As to continuing to vaccinate post pandemic I suspect that we will be encouraged to be jabbed for a few years yet until the virus killer arrives.
As in all things, perspective is important here and trying to ignore the incompetent and muddled musings of Gv't and individual reps thereof and see the message is critical. | | | |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 10:17 - Dec 16 with 1063 views | saint68 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 10:01 - Dec 16 by saint901 |
Thank you for not telling me to mind my own business.
I would agree that the "authorities" have made the most of the numbers but we need to examine why. It could be either because they have a genuine concern that this disease can kill many more than it has (and the dead cannot vote and the relatives of the dead will not vote for a Gov't that allowed the death) or some other less altruistic and perhaps conspiratorial reason.
My view is that Joe Public has been numbed to certain realities by a constant feed of partial messages that have to be SHOCKING!! or AMAZING!! to grab their attention. The mundane "look after yourself and those around you" does not play to the audience.
I see this in my work every day and it's obvious that the social scientists driving the Gov't message are working on the theory that without dramatic language, nothing gets through.
(I would however warn against anything you read in the Mail being taken at face value).
False information? Probably not. Incomplete, out of context and selective, absolutely. But that's politics. This has been the case for 300 years during wars, disaster and pandemics.
All vaccines have to trialed. It so happens that the pandemic means that it's real time. Because we do not have a virus killer but only a vaccine that mitigates symptoms, it's important that transmission is limited. Viral load in vaccinated people is lower than unvaccinated and ergo, less likely to be passed on.
As to continuing to vaccinate post pandemic I suspect that we will be encouraged to be jabbed for a few years yet until the virus killer arrives.
As in all things, perspective is important here and trying to ignore the incompetent and muddled musings of Gv't and individual reps thereof and see the message is critical. |
Thanks for that response 901, you mention viral load being suppressed in fully vaccinated but we still see mass infections in settings where the participants are fully vaccinated..even moreso of late.
As for the Daily Mail article..its just forwarding real statistical information in regards to the misleading/inflated numbers that the NHS are putting out. | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 10:36 - Dec 16 with 1056 views | DorsetIan |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 10:17 - Dec 16 by saint68 |
Thanks for that response 901, you mention viral load being suppressed in fully vaccinated but we still see mass infections in settings where the participants are fully vaccinated..even moreso of late.
As for the Daily Mail article..its just forwarding real statistical information in regards to the misleading/inflated numbers that the NHS are putting out. |
There you go again, trying to deny that the vaccines are effective and trying to say that doctors and scientists can't be trusted.
You just can't help yourself. It's extraordinary. [Post edited 16 Dec 2021 10:38]
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 11:02 - Dec 16 with 1037 views | Sadoldgit |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 10:17 - Dec 16 by saint68 |
Thanks for that response 901, you mention viral load being suppressed in fully vaccinated but we still see mass infections in settings where the participants are fully vaccinated..even moreso of late.
As for the Daily Mail article..its just forwarding real statistical information in regards to the misleading/inflated numbers that the NHS are putting out. |
I’ve come to the conclusion that you are working for Putin. |  | | |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 13:04 - Dec 16 with 1005 views | saint901 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 10:17 - Dec 16 by saint68 |
Thanks for that response 901, you mention viral load being suppressed in fully vaccinated but we still see mass infections in settings where the participants are fully vaccinated..even moreso of late.
As for the Daily Mail article..its just forwarding real statistical information in regards to the misleading/inflated numbers that the NHS are putting out. |
The viral load is in relation to Alpha, Beta and Delta strains. I think we can agree that the vaccines do reduce symptoms and viral load in these types? Also virus particules that have been touched by antibodies (vaccine stimulated) have fewer active spikes and therefore a lesser chance of infecting another.
This is why the hosptalisation and death rate was falling prior to Omicron.
The Omicron variant has one known and one unknown feature.
Known is that it is more infectious, i.e. more likely to breach cells and reproduce in huge numbers because of changes to the spike protein. The vaccines designed to counter Alpha thru Delta are not as effective against that change and instead the advice is that the booster jab will create both more antibodies and T Cells and allow the body to learn more about the virus and so make its own mutations. This si why the booster is needed and whilst I'm unhappy about the language and the persuasive techniques being deployed I can rationalise it.
Unknown is just how severe an illness it may produce. We will not know for another couple of weeks at least. Early results in SA suggest that it is less severe and hopes have been raised that this is evidence of a loss of potency that will teach our bodies how to cope and thereby not need a vaccine or other help.
As was pointed out in the press conference yesterday by Whitty, it's too early to say that. SA has a vaccine programme which has treated around a third of the population. There are logistical issues as well as significant hesitancy in SA. Nonetheless the Omicron variant is trying to gain ground in a better prepared population than Alpha etc and he suggested that this is one reason why this variant does not (yet) correlate in terms of infections to hospitalisations to deaths as the earlier versions.
Of course we all hope that this variant is the Achilles heel of the virus and that by teaching us how to deal with it, we will see it weaken and fail as a threat. But we don't know.
In the meantime the best defence is a vaccine that swamps the body and stops the worst effects and hopefully breaks the ratio of infections to deaths.
In terms of "real statistical information" if you're asking me to choose between the Daily Mail and the NHS...? Really? | | | |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 13:42 - Dec 16 with 983 views | saint68 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 13:04 - Dec 16 by saint901 |
The viral load is in relation to Alpha, Beta and Delta strains. I think we can agree that the vaccines do reduce symptoms and viral load in these types? Also virus particules that have been touched by antibodies (vaccine stimulated) have fewer active spikes and therefore a lesser chance of infecting another.
This is why the hosptalisation and death rate was falling prior to Omicron.
The Omicron variant has one known and one unknown feature.
Known is that it is more infectious, i.e. more likely to breach cells and reproduce in huge numbers because of changes to the spike protein. The vaccines designed to counter Alpha thru Delta are not as effective against that change and instead the advice is that the booster jab will create both more antibodies and T Cells and allow the body to learn more about the virus and so make its own mutations. This si why the booster is needed and whilst I'm unhappy about the language and the persuasive techniques being deployed I can rationalise it.
Unknown is just how severe an illness it may produce. We will not know for another couple of weeks at least. Early results in SA suggest that it is less severe and hopes have been raised that this is evidence of a loss of potency that will teach our bodies how to cope and thereby not need a vaccine or other help.
As was pointed out in the press conference yesterday by Whitty, it's too early to say that. SA has a vaccine programme which has treated around a third of the population. There are logistical issues as well as significant hesitancy in SA. Nonetheless the Omicron variant is trying to gain ground in a better prepared population than Alpha etc and he suggested that this is one reason why this variant does not (yet) correlate in terms of infections to hospitalisations to deaths as the earlier versions.
Of course we all hope that this variant is the Achilles heel of the virus and that by teaching us how to deal with it, we will see it weaken and fail as a threat. But we don't know.
In the meantime the best defence is a vaccine that swamps the body and stops the worst effects and hopefully breaks the ratio of infections to deaths.
In terms of "real statistical information" if you're asking me to choose between the Daily Mail and the NHS...? Really? |
Transmission of the Delta variant was extremely high in fully vaccinated prior to Omicron even making these shores.
I'm not a Daily Mail reader, and I'm not pompous or pig headed enough to ridicule some of its articles with contempt either 901...and the NHS is one of the most shambolicaly managed institutions on the planet, way too many chiefs and pen pushers soacking up the lions share of salaries... and the horrendous repayments on PFI are frankly extortionate...all results of terrible management. | |
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