| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? 00:15 - Jan 18 with 9284 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Discuss.
For me, it’s a yes.
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| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 19:02 - Jan 19 with 1192 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 18:51 - Jan 19 by Togg |
Stroke play is different. Look at how players hit a ball now compared to Perry's era. The shots then were extremely flat. Now the top spin generated is massive. Compare Nadal to even back to Jimmy Connors forehand. Same with the backhand. The backhand was mainly a defensive shot , now its a weapon. Whether one handed like Warwinka or Federer or two handed like Nadal or Murray. The game has moved on with racquet technology . . |
That last line is exactly the point though, the game has moved on, training and fitness are better, equipment is better and even the playing surface is much better because grass technology has developed new strains that are hardier.
So everything else in tennis can improve yet a player with access to those things couldn't? It seems a tad selective to me. Or maybe a tad dismissive is a better way of putting it.
Modern day players have changed coaches and made big improvements. Perry obviously wouldn't though, so it seems.
PS, dr P, Murray doesn't actually have a metal hip, he had athroscopic resurfacng surgery which entails putting a metal cap on the ball joint,
https://www.landoftennis.com/statistics_men/grand_slam_most_titles.htm
It isn't as invasive or damaging as a full hip replacement, his muscles wouldn't be affected as badly. |  | | |
| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 19:02 - Jan 19 with 1192 views | Togg |
| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 17:05 - Jan 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
WOW.
Possibly the greatest match I’ve seen in a long time, potentially ever.
Metal hip.
2 sets and 5-2 down, opponent serving for the match.
Almost 6 hours on court…. Comes back to beat yet another top 20 opponent.
Take a bow. Andy Murray. |
Incredible performance. The greatest ( in my opinion) British Tennis player ever. To get back to that standard after a hip replacement is just something else.
I would say in a different era, without the three greats he would have won a lot more Slams . I honestly thought when he was world number one and if it hadn't been for his hip injury, there was more success to come. Makes you wonder that during his peak was he playing through hip problems? | | | |
| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 19:05 - Jan 19 with 1180 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 19:02 - Jan 19 by Togg |
Incredible performance. The greatest ( in my opinion) British Tennis player ever. To get back to that standard after a hip replacement is just something else.
I would say in a different era, without the three greats he would have won a lot more Slams . I honestly thought when he was world number one and if it hadn't been for his hip injury, there was more success to come. Makes you wonder that during his peak was he playing through hip problems? |
He didn't have a hip replacement, he had a resurfacing which is less invasive and less damaging.
If he'd had a full hip replacement he wouldn't have played tennis at this level again. The damage to his muscles would never have recovered to it's previous strength. | | | |
| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 22:40 - Jan 19 with 1120 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 19:02 - Jan 19 by SullutaCreturned |
That last line is exactly the point though, the game has moved on, training and fitness are better, equipment is better and even the playing surface is much better because grass technology has developed new strains that are hardier.
So everything else in tennis can improve yet a player with access to those things couldn't? It seems a tad selective to me. Or maybe a tad dismissive is a better way of putting it.
Modern day players have changed coaches and made big improvements. Perry obviously wouldn't though, so it seems.
PS, dr P, Murray doesn't actually have a metal hip, he had athroscopic resurfacng surgery which entails putting a metal cap on the ball joint,
https://www.landoftennis.com/statistics_men/grand_slam_most_titles.htm
It isn't as invasive or damaging as a full hip replacement, his muscles wouldn't be affected as badly. |
Again, the discussion around a player of the past growing up in this era is a completely different one and one that will have no answer. His strength conditioning would be better, his skillset would be different and nobody has any idea how that would look. It’s a fruitless debate.
The discussion is taking someone from an era and a standard of play already achieved - and putting them up against someone from another. That means putting them against each other directly from the period they were at their best. It wouldn’t be a contest and Fred probably wouldn’t beat anyone in the top 100 let along the best British player ever and former world number 1.
If he has metal cap on this hip joint, that’s a metal hip then Isn’t it? That more than fits the standard for me.
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| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 22:55 - Jan 19 with 1112 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 08:40 - Jan 19 by felixstowe_jack |
Strange how Andy so strongly supported and played in the British Davis Cup team for over a 10 years a true British sportsman and willing passport holder. His is of course more than happy to live in his luxury £5 million mansion in Surrey.
Last time Iooked Surrey was not a Scotland. Murray by his action has shown he is British.
Why do you assume so much about Murray. |
Out of his own mouth.
I assume nothing.
Its a fact. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 23:09 - Jan 19 with 1102 views | Scotia |
| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 22:55 - Jan 19 by Kilkennyjack |
Out of his own mouth.
I assume nothing.
Its a fact. |
Yet he took to his knee in front of the sovereign for his knighthood?
And his OBE. | | | |
| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 01:09 - Jan 20 with 1085 views | Treforys_Jack |
No such thing as a greatest British Sportsman, everything relative and opinion based. There is no accurate measure. Just a pantheon of greats of their individual sport and era. Good thread though fair play. |  | | |
| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 05:49 - Jan 20 with 1075 views | Togg |
| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 19:05 - Jan 19 by SullutaCreturned |
He didn't have a hip replacement, he had a resurfacing which is less invasive and less damaging.
If he'd had a full hip replacement he wouldn't have played tennis at this level again. The damage to his muscles would never have recovered to it's previous strength. |
Yes, I stand corrected. Still hell of an operation to come back from for a world class athlete who did initially retire then changed his mind.
https://www.edwinsu.com/andy-murray-and-hip-resurfacing.html | | | |
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| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 06:05 - Jan 20 with 1068 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 22:40 - Jan 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Again, the discussion around a player of the past growing up in this era is a completely different one and one that will have no answer. His strength conditioning would be better, his skillset would be different and nobody has any idea how that would look. It’s a fruitless debate.
The discussion is taking someone from an era and a standard of play already achieved - and putting them up against someone from another. That means putting them against each other directly from the period they were at their best. It wouldn’t be a contest and Fred probably wouldn’t beat anyone in the top 100 let along the best British player ever and former world number 1.
If he has metal cap on this hip joint, that’s a metal hip then Isn’t it? That more than fits the standard for me.
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But the debate is about greatest British sportsman of ALL time so every achievement has to be taken in the context of the time it was achieved surely?
Or are you changing the parameters to suit your argument? Perry could only take part in and tournaments in his timeline and play against players of that timeline, he achieved all that he could given the situation which was more than Murray has achieved in his situation, yes?
The hip thing, if you put a new tyre on does that mean it's a new wheel? If you get a shoe re-heeled is it a new shoe? If you have a new roof is it a new house?
Speaking as someone who has had a total hip replacement i say what Murray had isn't a new hip, the operations are different, a total hip replacement is a much larger surgery, they sawed of the top half of the leg bone and inserted a metal rod into the remaining bone that had a full new ball at the top, then they removed the joint it sat in and installed a full new one there too, they are Ceramic. Murray had his bone smoothed over and a metal cap put on it, if you put a cap on your head, do you have a new head?
If Murray had a total hip replacement he would have been out much longer and would most likely have retired which probably is why he opted for the resurfacing. | | | |
| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 12:16 - Jan 20 with 1027 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 06:05 - Jan 20 by SullutaCreturned |
But the debate is about greatest British sportsman of ALL time so every achievement has to be taken in the context of the time it was achieved surely?
Or are you changing the parameters to suit your argument? Perry could only take part in and tournaments in his timeline and play against players of that timeline, he achieved all that he could given the situation which was more than Murray has achieved in his situation, yes?
The hip thing, if you put a new tyre on does that mean it's a new wheel? If you get a shoe re-heeled is it a new shoe? If you have a new roof is it a new house?
Speaking as someone who has had a total hip replacement i say what Murray had isn't a new hip, the operations are different, a total hip replacement is a much larger surgery, they sawed of the top half of the leg bone and inserted a metal rod into the remaining bone that had a full new ball at the top, then they removed the joint it sat in and installed a full new one there too, they are Ceramic. Murray had his bone smoothed over and a metal cap put on it, if you put a cap on your head, do you have a new head?
If Murray had a total hip replacement he would have been out much longer and would most likely have retired which probably is why he opted for the resurfacing. |
Nothing is being changed, we are discussing greatest of ALL time. That means a multitude of eras all combining to thrash it out.
Again, put Murray vs Perry tomorrow and it would be an embarrassment. That’s the greatest from two eras in British sport, one that would absolutely destroy the other.
If I replaced half my mandible with metal, I’d call it a metal jaw.
If I replaced part of my elbow with a metal ball into the socket, I’d call it a metal elbow.
If I replaced my knee cap with a metal one, I’d call it a metal knee.
I didn’t say he had a new hip, I said he has a metal hip. Some of it isn’t metal, but a lot of it is… so metal hip. Only you are bringing in the “total hip replacement” thing, who said he had that?
Looks pretty metal to me.
 [Post edited 20 Jan 2023 12:21]
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| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 23:04 - Jan 20 with 963 views | STID2017 |
| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 06:05 - Jan 20 by SullutaCreturned |
But the debate is about greatest British sportsman of ALL time so every achievement has to be taken in the context of the time it was achieved surely?
Or are you changing the parameters to suit your argument? Perry could only take part in and tournaments in his timeline and play against players of that timeline, he achieved all that he could given the situation which was more than Murray has achieved in his situation, yes?
The hip thing, if you put a new tyre on does that mean it's a new wheel? If you get a shoe re-heeled is it a new shoe? If you have a new roof is it a new house?
Speaking as someone who has had a total hip replacement i say what Murray had isn't a new hip, the operations are different, a total hip replacement is a much larger surgery, they sawed of the top half of the leg bone and inserted a metal rod into the remaining bone that had a full new ball at the top, then they removed the joint it sat in and installed a full new one there too, they are Ceramic. Murray had his bone smoothed over and a metal cap put on it, if you put a cap on your head, do you have a new head?
If Murray had a total hip replacement he would have been out much longer and would most likely have retired which probably is why he opted for the resurfacing. |
Andy Murray.
Not even the greatest sportsman of this year - and it's only January ! (Joke in case any take it seriously)
Not sure the question is valid..
How can you compare sportsmen from all different eras, all different sports, all different facilities for training etc.
For example imagine a football player who had worked a shift down a mine, then plays on a mud bath of a pitch kicking a football that felt like a lead balloon with boots which were glorified Doc Martin's.
Compare him to a footballer who is pampered and trains two hours a day, has the best diet, health regime then travels to a game a few miles away ( as Man City for example do every home game ).
The circumstances are worlds apart and beyond comparison.
[Post edited 21 Jan 2023 5:40]
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| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 23:49 - Jan 20 with 942 views | STID2017 |
| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 23:04 - Jan 20 by STID2017 |
Andy Murray.
Not even the greatest sportsman of this year - and it's only January ! (Joke in case any take it seriously)
Not sure the question is valid..
How can you compare sportsmen from all different eras, all different sports, all different facilities for training etc.
For example imagine a football player who had worked a shift down a mine, then plays on a mud bath of a pitch kicking a football that felt like a lead balloon with boots which were glorified Doc Martin's.
Compare him to a footballer who is pampered and trains two hours a day, has the best diet, health regime then travels to a game a few miles away ( as Man City for example do every home game ).
The circumstances are worlds apart and beyond comparison.
[Post edited 21 Jan 2023 5:40]
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Just to add for reason of clarification - Man City arrive at home games on a luxury corporate bus.
What the hell is that about ? | |
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| Andy Murray, greatest British sportsman of all time? on 00:30 - Jan 21 with 925 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Similar fantastic questions surfacing around the web:
Great to see that many recognise the great man and his position in British history. | |
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