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Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 17:20 - Feb 15 by KeithHaynes
Fisher was signed before Downes.
Darling was definitely a straight fee of around 1.4 million, Allen had a signing on fee but it’s speculation. Believed to be around 250k plus 11k a week.
I can’t see flex and Stevens being much more than an agreed 5k a week or when added up a lump fee of the same.
Ipswich do have a sell on fee. I would say on speculation around one million.
Sorinola, god knows.
But again it won’t be huge.
Downes went for absolute millions. How much we got up front again is speculation but definitely 5 million plus initially.
We should also be aware that the playing staff has been drastically reduced, plus we won’t be paying Obafemi’s salary now.
I think the books are well balanced, and definitely not in the red.
Good answer. Now why isn't my team sheet from Monday up yet ?
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 17:22 - Feb 15 by STID2017
Good answer. Now why isn't my team sheet from Monday up yet ?
Exactly books well balanced and not in the red....a good place to be maybe peeps should look at the Tommy Hutch thread remind themselves of where we were the last time we fell from the top table!
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 17:26 - Feb 15 by vetchonian
Exactly books well balanced and not in the red....a good place to be maybe peeps should look at the Tommy Hutch thread remind themselves of where we were the last time we fell from the top table!
Let's hope we dont see the lower echelons of the football league pyramid again ðŸ™ðŸ™ðŸ™
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 13:33 - Feb 15 by whiterock
Just remember the figures quoted for Ronato Sanches was £7m loan fee, which, I assume included his wages? We all thought it was a bit of a coup when the deal was done, soon changed our minds, but whilst that was excessive, most loan deals cost us.
Most loan deals cost something. Whether that’s a fee, a fee and all wages, a fee and part wages, no fee and full wages or no fee and part wages.
When we are talking about loan fees, they are usually free when youth Premier League player is involved. Brewster and Tammy Abraham for example were both free, I believe Guehi was also free and I think Gallagher was.
It’s about getting the right club for their development, not trying to get an extra couple of hundred thousand as a fee. A successful loan can add 8 figures to their value.
[Post edited 15 Feb 2023 22:09]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 13:25 - Feb 15 by jack247
Yes of course. I understand that point and agree with it.
However you can’t do that consistently and simultaneously improve the squad. Net spend is never going to be an exact science, but it’s a fairly decent rule of thumb.
It’s never a decent rule of thumb.
Put up a league table of spend + squad value and it will pretty much churn out the finishing league table (there or there abouts),
Do the same for net spend and it will be wildly inaccurate, probably no different to randomly picking finishing positions out of a hat.
Want to try?
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 22:11 - Feb 15 by Dr_Parnassus
It’s never a decent rule of thumb.
Put up a league table of spend + squad value and it will pretty much churn out the finishing league table (there or there abouts),
Do the same for net spend and it will be wildly inaccurate, probably no different to randomly picking finishing positions out of a hat.
Want to try?
If it’s wildly inaccurate, you should be able to find plenty of examples of clubs with a net spend of -104 million (euros as taken from transfermarkt) since relegation that haven’t regressed.
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Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 10:58 - Feb 16 with 706 views
There was/is a screen grab spread sheet doing the rounds on what's app, how true it is I couldn't tell you but it had every player listed, salary, yearly salary, age and nationality, few surprises picked out below...
Matt Grimes top earner £21k a week Fin Stevens next on £20k Andy Fisher on £13k Joe Allen on £12k Joel Piroe, and Luke Cundle on £10k Michael Obafemi £9k Armstron Oko-Flex £5,500 Steven Benda £4,600 Matthew Sorinola £1,900
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Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 11:28 - Feb 16 with 682 views
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 07:59 - Feb 16 by jack247
If it’s wildly inaccurate, you should be able to find plenty of examples of clubs with a net spend of -104 million (euros as taken from transfermarkt) since relegation that haven’t regressed.
There is no “if” about it, it IS wildly inaccurate.
In your version, the league table should look like this come the end of the season, ranked by net spend:-
1. Chelsea 2. Man Utd 3. Nottingham Forest 4. West Ham 5. Newcastle 6. Southampton 7. Arsenal 8. Tottenham 9. Bournemouth 10. Wolves 11. Liverpool 12. Fulham 13. Brentford 14. Leeds 15. Palace 16. Villa 17. Everton 18. Leicester 19. Man City 20. Brighton
Chelsea winning the league, Southampton and Forest in the Champions League and Man City and Brighton getting relegated.
Interesting…. (ahem)
Here’s my version, actual spend + squad value:
1. Man City 2. Chelsea 3. Liverpool 4. Arsenal 5. Man Utd 6. Tottenham 7. Newcastle 8. West Ham 9. Leicester 10. Villa 11. Wolves 12. Southampton 13. Everton 14. Forest 15. Palace 16. Brighton 17. Brentford 18. Leeds 19. Fulham 20. Bournemouth
Man City winning the league, Chelsea Liverpool and Arsenal in the champions league and Bournemouth and Leeds relegated.
What sounds more realistic to you, my version or yours? Be honest….
Let’s do another bet (although you look to be losing the last two you placed with me).
End of the season, we will count up every team and how far away the above predictions are. I’ll give you a MASSIVE 10 point head-start.
For example if Man City come 2nd, that’s -1 point for me and -18 points for you etc etc
£100?
Deal?
[Post edited 16 Feb 2023 11:47]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 11:28 - Feb 16 by Dr_Parnassus
There is no “if” about it, it IS wildly inaccurate.
In your version, the league table should look like this come the end of the season, ranked by net spend:-
1. Chelsea 2. Man Utd 3. Nottingham Forest 4. West Ham 5. Newcastle 6. Southampton 7. Arsenal 8. Tottenham 9. Bournemouth 10. Wolves 11. Liverpool 12. Fulham 13. Brentford 14. Leeds 15. Palace 16. Villa 17. Everton 18. Leicester 19. Man City 20. Brighton
Chelsea winning the league, Southampton and Forest in the Champions League and Man City and Brighton getting relegated.
Interesting…. (ahem)
Here’s my version, actual spend + squad value:
1. Man City 2. Chelsea 3. Liverpool 4. Arsenal 5. Man Utd 6. Tottenham 7. Newcastle 8. West Ham 9. Leicester 10. Villa 11. Wolves 12. Southampton 13. Everton 14. Forest 15. Palace 16. Brighton 17. Brentford 18. Leeds 19. Fulham 20. Bournemouth
Man City winning the league, Chelsea Liverpool and Arsenal in the champions league and Bournemouth and Leeds relegated.
What sounds more realistic to you, my version or yours? Be honest….
Let’s do another bet (although you look to be losing the last two you placed with me).
End of the season, we will count up every team and how far away the above predictions are. I’ll give you a MASSIVE 10 point head-start.
For example if Man City come 2nd, that’s -1 point for me and -18 points for you etc etc
£100?
Deal?
[Post edited 16 Feb 2023 11:47]
Oh come on.
We’re talking about our peers, not oil rich Premier League teams with squads already worth multiple hundreds of millions being investigated for FFP breaches. We’re also not talking about newly promoted PL teams that have spent more on players this season than we probably have ever.
Make it relevant to the Championship and give me examples of clubs who have taken more than €100m than they have spent since relegation.
It’s a thread about Swansea City on a Swansea City forum.
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Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 11:50 - Feb 16 with 666 views
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 11:47 - Feb 16 by jack247
Oh come on.
We’re talking about our peers, not oil rich Premier League teams with squads already worth multiple hundreds of millions being investigated for FFP breaches. We’re also not talking about newly promoted PL teams that have spent more on players this season than we probably have ever.
Make it relevant to the Championship and give me examples of clubs who have taken more than €100m than they have spent since relegation.
It’s a thread about Swansea City on a Swansea City forum.
132 to 90 is the above by the way, my favour.
I’ll happily do it for the championship too, my way will always be more accurate because net spend is nonsense.
I’ll be back…
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 11:50 - Feb 16 by Dr_Parnassus
132 to 90 is the above by the way, my favour.
I’ll happily do it for the championship too, my way will always be more accurate because net spend is nonsense.
I’ll be back…
All I’m asking you to do is provide examples of relegated teams who have an average surplus of £20m or so per season without regressing.
Your principle will be the same in the Championship, it just won’t be as extreme. Burnley are competing with a virtual PL squad. They could afford to sell their best 3 or 4 players and still win the league. It’s completely skewed as teams who already have better players don’t need to spend. You already know that, which is why you went to the PL first.
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Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 12:05 - Feb 16 with 666 views
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 11:59 - Feb 16 by jack247
All I’m asking you to do is provide examples of relegated teams who have an average surplus of £20m or so per season without regressing.
Your principle will be the same in the Championship, it just won’t be as extreme. Burnley are competing with a virtual PL squad. They could afford to sell their best 3 or 4 players and still win the league. It’s completely skewed as teams who already have better players don’t need to spend. You already know that, which is why you went to the PL first.
Plus Burnley have spent in excess of £60K Don't expect fair comparisons - you will be disappointed
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 11:59 - Feb 16 by jack247
All I’m asking you to do is provide examples of relegated teams who have an average surplus of £20m or so per season without regressing.
Your principle will be the same in the Championship, it just won’t be as extreme. Burnley are competing with a virtual PL squad. They could afford to sell their best 3 or 4 players and still win the league. It’s completely skewed as teams who already have better players don’t need to spend. You already know that, which is why you went to the PL first.
I went to PL first because the information is easier and there is less teams.
The Championship shows it even more so than the PL does.
I’ve said you can pick any league you want, any year.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 12:26 - Feb 16 by Dr_Parnassus
I went to PL first because the information is easier and there is less teams.
The Championship shows it even more so than the PL does.
I’ve said you can pick any league you want, any year.
Again, you’re diverting. I’m asking you for examples over the timeframe since we got relegated. Consistently, year in year our, just like us.
It’s blindingly obvious that relegated PL teams are going to sell their best couple of players and have a big surplus that season. Absolutely no issue with our fire sale at the time (although most clubs are well run enough to retain the core of their squads).
Even in your PL example, Brighton would eventually get relegated and Man City would slide down the table if they were in those positions every season. Conversely, Forest probably would get in the CL if they spent that much year in year out. Let’s see what happens with Newcastle the next couple of seasons.
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Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 12:36 - Feb 16 with 643 views
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 12:34 - Feb 16 by jack247
Again, you’re diverting. I’m asking you for examples over the timeframe since we got relegated. Consistently, year in year our, just like us.
It’s blindingly obvious that relegated PL teams are going to sell their best couple of players and have a big surplus that season. Absolutely no issue with our fire sale at the time (although most clubs are well run enough to retain the core of their squads).
Even in your PL example, Brighton would eventually get relegated and Man City would slide down the table if they were in those positions every season. Conversely, Forest probably would get in the CL if they spent that much year in year out. Let’s see what happens with Newcastle the next couple of seasons.
How is it diverting?
I’m literally showing you that net spend does not affect things on the scale you believe.
I’ve proven it in the Premier League, I’ve proven it in the Championship and not only that asked you to pick any year and any league of your choice.
As for a specific club example, you mean like Brentford?
2018/19: +35m transfer profit 2019/20: 390k transfer spend 2020/21: +54.7m transfer profit
Average net spend of +£29.9m profit each season to the tune of nearly £90m in total (or €101m as your preferred currency).
2018/19: 11th in Championship 2019/20: 3rd in Championship (81 points) 2020/21: 3rd in Championship (87 points)
Stop now. Your argument is senseless.
[Post edited 17 Feb 2023 4:37]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 12:36 - Feb 16 by Dr_Parnassus
How is it diverting?
I’m literally showing you that net spend does not affect things on the scale you believe.
I’ve proven it in the Premier League, I’ve proven it in the Championship and not only that asked you to pick any year and any league of your choice.
As for a specific club example, you mean like Brentford?
2018/19: +35m transfer profit 2019/20: 390k transfer spend 2020/21: +54.7m transfer profit
Average net spend of +£29.9m profit each season to the tune of nearly £90m in total (or €101m as your preferred currency).
2018/19: 11th in Championship 2019/20: 3rd in Championship (81 points) 2020/21: 3rd in Championship (87 points)
Stop now. Your argument is senseless.
[Post edited 17 Feb 2023 4:37]
You know exactly how it’s diverting. I don’t need to explain that relegated clubs will invariably sell their best couple of players whilst retaining a core PL squad, thus completely distorting that single seasons figures. I can’t think of any, bar us, that do it consistently year on year.
Brentford - yes absolutely. They completely beat the odds. They managed to sell at high prices and replace with better players for substantially less. If we were doing that, absolutely fine, but we’re not. They replaced Watkins and Berahino with Toney for 10% of the price.
Who have we brought in that’s better than James, McBurnie, Rodon, Roberts? Piroe for McBurnie arguably?
Any other examples or is it just one in the last 5 years?
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Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 13:04 - Feb 16 with 629 views
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 12:53 - Feb 16 by jack247
You know exactly how it’s diverting. I don’t need to explain that relegated clubs will invariably sell their best couple of players whilst retaining a core PL squad, thus completely distorting that single seasons figures. I can’t think of any, bar us, that do it consistently year on year.
Brentford - yes absolutely. They completely beat the odds. They managed to sell at high prices and replace with better players for substantially less. If we were doing that, absolutely fine, but we’re not. They replaced Watkins and Berahino with Toney for 10% of the price.
Who have we brought in that’s better than James, McBurnie, Rodon, Roberts? Piroe for McBurnie arguably?
Any other examples or is it just one in the last 5 years?
You are saying it’s diverting because you know it blows your whole argument out of the water, is provable and repeatable in every single league and every single season in every single country.
So you ask for an example, I give you one and now you want me to dig out more? Someone said something about moving the goalposts earlier didn’t they?
All you had to do was say, fair posts Dr P, you did what I asked and proved it both on a team specific level and a repeatable overall level.
We sold McBurnie for £20m and bought Piroe for £1m. We don’t play wingers so there is no replacement for James. Our history is littered with selling players for a lot of money and replacing them with better, more suitable players for far less.
My favourite one of course was selling Danny Graham for £5m and buying Michu and Chico for the same price combined.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 13:04 - Feb 16 by Dr_Parnassus
You are saying it’s diverting because you know it blows your whole argument out of the water, is provable and repeatable in every single league and every single season in every single country.
So you ask for an example, I give you one and now you want me to dig out more? Someone said something about moving the goalposts earlier didn’t they?
All you had to do was say, fair posts Dr P, you did what I asked and proved it both on a team specific level and a repeatable overall level.
We sold McBurnie for £20m and bought Piroe for £1m. We don’t play wingers so there is no replacement for James. Our history is littered with selling players for a lot of money and replacing them with better, more suitable players for far less.
My favourite one of course was selling Danny Graham for £5m and buying Michu and Chico for the same price combined.
I’m saying it’s diverting because promotion and relegation fundamentally skews the reality. I’d bet the relegated teams are near enough all at the bottom of the Championship one every single year.
You can pretend not to understand that point, it doesn’t matter, everyone else reading the thread will get it.
Brentford is a fantastic example. The fact there’s only one in the last 5 years speaks for itself.
Selling players and replacing with better for far less is absolutely laudable. That’s not what we’re doing. We’re selling and replacing with far worse in the main. That’s always the most likely outcome if you try to do it consistently.
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Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 15:24 - Feb 16 with 598 views
Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City on 15:02 - Feb 16 by jack247
I’m saying it’s diverting because promotion and relegation fundamentally skews the reality. I’d bet the relegated teams are near enough all at the bottom of the Championship one every single year.
You can pretend not to understand that point, it doesn’t matter, everyone else reading the thread will get it.
Brentford is a fantastic example. The fact there’s only one in the last 5 years speaks for itself.
Selling players and replacing with better for far less is absolutely laudable. That’s not what we’re doing. We’re selling and replacing with far worse in the main. That’s always the most likely outcome if you try to do it consistently.
Excellent post Jack
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
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