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...Argentina now have a proper manager (I've been saying this for a long time).
It's the first time in Messi's career since he was 18 at the 2006 World Cup that he has a proper manager for his country.
We blew Uruguay away last night and with did it with relative ease. They had Suarez, Forlan and Cavani. They were all there.
Yet, we hit them for 3 and could have been more, trust me.
Messi under his new manager (Alejandro Sabella -more experienced posters here will remember him as a player for Leeds and Sheffield United in the late 70s-early 80s), has been firing on all cylinders.
He scored 2 last night and 5 in the last 5 World Cup Qualifiers.
We hit 4 against Brazil (Messi hat-trick) in a friendly (that is never a friendly, really!), then 3 vs. Germany, 3 vs. Switzerland (another Messi hat-trick), 3 vs. Paraguay, 3 vs. Uruguay.
Messi is starting to be adore even here (where idiots seem to have dominated in the past and there was this notion that Messi didn't care to play for Argentina or that he never played for us like he does for Barcelona when it was clearly his team and some of his teammates who were not producing the goods).
Anyway...it goes to show what a huge impact a great manager can have on a team and how he can help a player like Messi make an impact for his national team too.
I'm getting ready to visit Brazil in a bit less than 2 years time!
Can't remember but did he actually play for Argentina? I think Sabella was over here at the same time as Ardilles and Villa at Spurs. He didn't get the same publicity as them because I think he came a year or two afterwards.
Anyway, are there any younger versions of Sabella you could recommend?
Uruguay were very poor in the Olympics, which surprised me as I rated them highly before that. I know it's a different format being U23's but they had Cavani, Suarez, Coates, Abel Hernandez and Gaston Ramirez so should have been strong. This takes the shine off Argentina's result for me but there is no doubt that with a proper manager Argentina should be among the favourites for the World Cup, the talent in their squad is scary!!
Uruguay were very poor in the Olympics, which surprised me as I rated them highly before that. I know it's a different format being U23's but they had Cavani, Suarez, Coates, Abel Hernandez and Gaston Ramirez so should have been strong. This takes the shine off Argentina's result for me but there is no doubt that with a proper manager Argentina should be among the favourites for the World Cup, the talent in their squad is scary!!
Shame they couldn't get the floodlights to work the other week against Brazil QPR_ARG...bit of an embarrassment...albeit the game without any international players also was a bit of a non-starter..
Argentina always seem to have the firepower, but the back four and a world class goalkeeper sometimes are missing.. whats the case here QPR_ARG..the keeper seems fairly stable..long haired fella..but not sure about back four..
But that can't be right, it's only South American players (and Italians) that dive. Surely!
All jokes aside...I think that 2002 team peaked a bit too early and were exhausted in 2002 (and a tad unlucky too) and we crashed out. It's football. There are no guarantees. No matter how good and talented you are.
Can't remember but did he actually play for Argentina? I think Sabella was over here at the same time as Ardilles and Villa at Spurs. He didn't get the same publicity as them because I think he came a year or two afterwards.
Anyway, are there any younger versions of Sabella you could recommend?
I don't know if you ever heard about this, but it is true.
Sheffield United sent a scout to Argentina and the man recommended a teenager that was quite good. The price tag was 400,000 Pounds, so the Blades told the scout to find a cheaper options.
Sheffield United ended up buying Sabella, who wasn't bad at all.
Care to guess who was that teenager?
OK. Mystery over. His name was Diego Armando Maradona!
Anyway...Sabella was part of a group of 4 Argies in England. Ardiles and Villa were two of the others and then there was Claudio Marangoni (at Sunderland).
Here you go. Picture evidence!
From left to right: Ardiles, Marangoni, Sabella and Villa.
As far as "a new Sabella"...well...football has changed a lot, hasn't it? Sabella was (and still is) nickname "Pachorra", which means "Sloth". Because he had a lazy look on him. He wasn't the quickest, but he had the brains.
I'm not sure about a new Sabella coming out of Argentina. Let's say we have an anti-Sabella currently player for QPR. His name is Shaun Wright-Phillips.
I don't know if you ever heard about this, but it is true.
Sheffield United sent a scout to Argentina and the man recommended a teenager that was quite good. The price tag was 400,000 Pounds, so the Blades told the scout to find a cheaper options.
Sheffield United ended up buying Sabella, who wasn't bad at all.
Care to guess who was that teenager?
OK. Mystery over. His name was Diego Armando Maradona!
Anyway...Sabella was part of a group of 4 Argies in England. Ardiles and Villa were two of the others and then there was Claudio Marangoni (at Sunderland).
Here you go. Picture evidence!
From left to right: Ardiles, Marangoni, Sabella and Villa.
As far as "a new Sabella"...well...football has changed a lot, hasn't it? Sabella was (and still is) nickname "Pachorra", which means "Sloth". Because he had a lazy look on him. He wasn't the quickest, but he had the brains.
I'm not sure about a new Sabella coming out of Argentina. Let's say we have an anti-Sabella currently player for QPR. His name is Shaun Wright-Phillips.
Not lazy. But not a single good neuron!
Ardiles and Villa, Malvinas and Exocets. Same era as I remember. Very nice quality players with silky skills.
Currently residing in Pinner, Centre of the Universe.
But that can't be right, it's only South American players (and Italians) that dive. Surely!
All jokes aside...I think that 2002 team peaked a bit too early and were exhausted in 2002 (and a tad unlucky too) and we crashed out. It's football. There are no guarantees. No matter how good and talented you are.
The 2002 Argentina team were awful but you were the best team in 2006 and were very unlucky to lose to the hosts.
I was at that game Baz, couple of minutes before half time Mel says ' it's your round you may as well go down stairs and get them now, nothings going to happen before half time '
Travel half way round the world and i'm standing at the bar when Beckham scores the penalty..
Still was not all bad news, i managed to grab a couple of pre pulled pints off the counter whilst the celebrations were going on downstairs.
I was at that game Baz, couple of minutes before half time Mel says ' it's your round you may as well go down stairs and get them now, nothings going to happen before half time '
Travel half way round the world and i'm standing at the bar when Beckham scores the penalty..
Still was not all bad news, i managed to grab a couple of pre pulled pints off the counter whilst the celebrations were going on downstairs.
And did we get w@nkered in downtown Sapporro after or what ?? Mel even made up a new song about that night.
I was at that game Baz, couple of minutes before half time Mel says ' it's your round you may as well go down stairs and get them now, nothings going to happen before half time '
Travel half way round the world and i'm standing at the bar when Beckham scores the penalty..
Still was not all bad news, i managed to grab a couple of pre pulled pints off the counter whilst the celebrations were going on downstairs.
Nice one! Sounds like thedago, it's his job to get the beers in early! That was the first tournament he'd missed in over 20 years! Don't tell him!
I hope you are right, because I would love to see Argentina do well given the players the country has.
I am cautious because over the last decade there has been a lot of hype about Argentina before every tournament, but they haven't really delivered as a team. In the 2010 World Cup, Germany beating England 4-1 was no great surprise, but Germany beating Argentina 4-0 was.
Messi seemed to be nullified in the 2010 tournament (was he playing too deep?) Perhaps part of the problem is that even if he plays well, but doesn't play as well as he does for Barcelona, everyone is disappointed.
I hope you are right, because I would love to see Argentina do well given the players the country has.
I am cautious because over the last decade there has been a lot of hype about Argentina before every tournament, but they haven't really delivered as a team. In the 2010 World Cup, Germany beating England 4-1 was no great surprise, but Germany beating Argentina 4-0 was.
Messi seemed to be nullified in the 2010 tournament (was he playing too deep?) Perhaps part of the problem is that even if he plays well, but doesn't play as well as he does for Barcelona, everyone is disappointed.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
In my opinion, the hype was justified in 2006 and I think the difference between between Germany or losing on penalties were a couple of wrong substitutions by José Pekerman. When up 1-0 and with 20 minutes to go, he took off Riquelme (who could have kept possession and dictate the rhythm and then sent Julio Cruz on instead of sending Messi.
Germany were knackered and couldn't handle Tevez for most of the time. Sending Messi out there too would have been too much for them. Instead, he sent Cruz to make him help at defending set pieces and long balls toward our box.
In the end...they made it 1-1 with a header from Klose.
Then...in 2010...the only human being capable of stopping Lionel Messi was Diego Maradona. And he did.
No tactics. Players out of position. The first proper opposition we faced, hit us for four. We were even lucky to beat Mexico in the round of 16 and could have easily lost, but we won it solely based on our individual talent.
Can anyone name another team that's finally got a proper manager for the first time in years and is learning to get the best out of its best player?
Colombia.
It took an Argentine (Pekerman) to sort them out, but they're coming good. And Falcao is at last doing it for the national side... Beat Uruguay 5-0 (ok so they were made to play in 35 degree afternoon heat but same for both sides, right?) then beat Chile 3-1 away - a fantastic result. Carried on with a solid 2-0 win against Peru on Friday.
Ok so Falcao is not Messi and he's not backed up by the same quality, but there's purpose and momentum about the team, and I could really see Colombia being a bit of a surprise package - a la Paraguay 1998 - and getting somewhere.
Colombians are quite good at just ignoring and putting down their team when they're the disaster they have been for the last few years; they just pick one of Real or Barca and focus their football energy on that. But all of a sudden they've found some inspiration and the country loves football again. The feel-good factor is there! Plenty of Colombians in Buenos Aires who'll be ready to make the trip across the border I'm sure. And as Brazil is one of the few countries a Colombian can go without a visa, if all goes to plan I know a few people who might take the opportunity to leave the country for the first time.
Colombia needs a good World Cup to make themselves feel good about their national side; the whole country hasn't quite got over the disappointment of 94, when they really did have a good side.
Going to bite my tongue now, plenty of time to cock it up still.
Agree with QPR_ARG about Argentina, their turn will have to come soon. But Seb, stop thinking about SWP ALL the time, you'll give yourself a heart attack! We know he's been pretty useless, but you don't have to taint your thread about Messi by finding a roundabout way to mention him...
Can anyone name another team that's finally got a proper manager for the first time in years and is learning to get the best out of its best player?
Colombia.
It took an Argentine (Pekerman) to sort them out, but they're coming good. And Falcao is at last doing it for the national side... Beat Uruguay 5-0 (ok so they were made to play in 35 degree afternoon heat but same for both sides, right?) then beat Chile 3-1 away - a fantastic result. Carried on with a solid 2-0 win against Peru on Friday.
Ok so Falcao is not Messi and he's not backed up by the same quality, but there's purpose and momentum about the team, and I could really see Colombia being a bit of a surprise package - a la Paraguay 1998 - and getting somewhere.
Colombians are quite good at just ignoring and putting down their team when they're the disaster they have been for the last few years; they just pick one of Real or Barca and focus their football energy on that. But all of a sudden they've found some inspiration and the country loves football again. The feel-good factor is there! Plenty of Colombians in Buenos Aires who'll be ready to make the trip across the border I'm sure. And as Brazil is one of the few countries a Colombian can go without a visa, if all goes to plan I know a few people who might take the opportunity to leave the country for the first time.
Colombia needs a good World Cup to make themselves feel good about their national side; the whole country hasn't quite got over the disappointment of 94, when they really did have a good side.
Going to bite my tongue now, plenty of time to cock it up still.
Agree with QPR_ARG about Argentina, their turn will have to come soon. But Seb, stop thinking about SWP ALL the time, you'll give yourself a heart attack! We know he's been pretty useless, but you don't have to taint your thread about Messi by finding a roundabout way to mention him...
Hola ColombiR! Are you Colombian or an expat living there?
For all my criticism of Pekerman's substitutions in Germany vs. Germany, he is one of my favourite football people and a fantastic coach with an excellent record bringing up young players (3 Youth World Cups with Argentina -winning the Fair Play award all the time -which is not something very easy to do if you're Argentina-!)
I really rate this Colombia team, especially Falcao (a bit more after he destroyed Chelsea in the summer), James Rodriguez (what a left foot!) and mad man Teo Gutiérrez.
Teo used to play for my team in Argentina (Racing Club) and it was here where he produced a paint-ball gun in the dressing room after a derby match vs. Independiente (when he was sent off and our keeper punched him twice in the face -in the dressing room, just before he showed that gun-).
Anyway...when he feels like playing, he's an incredible goalscorer. He's got a superior skill to find the back of the net. I don't know how he does it, he just scores.
So, yes, I think Colombia will return to the World Cup for the first time sin 1998 and I'll be happy to see that!
As for my need to mention SWP here...well...maybe you're right...but I'm saving up a lot of money by not going to the psychiatrist and releasing all my anger here.
Hola ColombiR! Are you Colombian or an expat living there?
For all my criticism of Pekerman's substitutions in Germany vs. Germany, he is one of my favourite football people and a fantastic coach with an excellent record bringing up young players (3 Youth World Cups with Argentina -winning the Fair Play award all the time -which is not something very easy to do if you're Argentina-!)
I really rate this Colombia team, especially Falcao (a bit more after he destroyed Chelsea in the summer), James Rodriguez (what a left foot!) and mad man Teo Gutiérrez.
Teo used to play for my team in Argentina (Racing Club) and it was here where he produced a paint-ball gun in the dressing room after a derby match vs. Independiente (when he was sent off and our keeper punched him twice in the face -in the dressing room, just before he showed that gun-).
Anyway...when he feels like playing, he's an incredible goalscorer. He's got a superior skill to find the back of the net. I don't know how he does it, he just scores.
So, yes, I think Colombia will return to the World Cup for the first time sin 1998 and I'll be happy to see that!
As for my need to mention SWP here...well...maybe you're right...but I'm saving up a lot of money by not going to the psychiatrist and releasing all my anger here.
HUGHES! Don't play SWP anymore! You hear me?
Hola ARG. Am Ealing born and bred, but Colombia stole my heart while I was living with Colombians in 2006. Then spent a year in Colombia in 2008/09, have been back a couple of times since, and am returning indefinitely to live in Bogotá on 4th December... (Villa will be my last game for a while).
Colombian football's produced its fair share of nutters recently. There was a shocking and pretty tragic story of a guy who played for Junior de Barranquilla a couple of years ago. While he was in his car, he was getting some abuse from fans after the game...got out, pulled out a gun, shot a guy dead. Just threw away a fan's, and his, life with one moment of madness.
Then there was the owl-kicking incident last year with a Pereira player.
It's amazing Colombia produces any players at all really given the lack of depth in the domestic game. When I was there in 08/09 I was working for a local paper covering second division football. The second division was only formed in the late 90s, so there were few established teams to form it...now club just come and go depending who's got the money to pay for a place and a few players, so the standard is pretty poor. The team I followed was playing on a pitch that most Sunday League sides would refuse to play on - the grass was a good three inches high most of the time.
And the first division is still blighted by the ridiculous "promedio" system that they copied of Argentina (so I understand!), which means there'll never really be any competitiveness. Not to mention the play-off system which means that you only have to finish in the top 8 out of 18 to qualify for the round robin that decides Champions of both divisions. Had me tearing my hair out!
What I most hope for from this resurgent national team is that it gets Colombians watching Colombian football again. Seemed a struggle to find that many regular match-goers, but everyone watch the bloody Madrid-Barca Clasico. And the media are so sensationalist it wares off on everyone - anything other than a win is usually followed by calls for the manager's head, replace all the players... (which seems to be the standard every season).
By the way, have you ever seen the film "Golpe de estadio"?
Think I might be in BA late December-early Jan - is there any fútbol going on then?
Hola ARG. Am Ealing born and bred, but Colombia stole my heart while I was living with Colombians in 2006. Then spent a year in Colombia in 2008/09, have been back a couple of times since, and am returning indefinitely to live in Bogotá on 4th December... (Villa will be my last game for a while).
Colombian football's produced its fair share of nutters recently. There was a shocking and pretty tragic story of a guy who played for Junior de Barranquilla a couple of years ago. While he was in his car, he was getting some abuse from fans after the game...got out, pulled out a gun, shot a guy dead. Just threw away a fan's, and his, life with one moment of madness.
Then there was the owl-kicking incident last year with a Pereira player.
It's amazing Colombia produces any players at all really given the lack of depth in the domestic game. When I was there in 08/09 I was working for a local paper covering second division football. The second division was only formed in the late 90s, so there were few established teams to form it...now club just come and go depending who's got the money to pay for a place and a few players, so the standard is pretty poor. The team I followed was playing on a pitch that most Sunday League sides would refuse to play on - the grass was a good three inches high most of the time.
And the first division is still blighted by the ridiculous "promedio" system that they copied of Argentina (so I understand!), which means there'll never really be any competitiveness. Not to mention the play-off system which means that you only have to finish in the top 8 out of 18 to qualify for the round robin that decides Champions of both divisions. Had me tearing my hair out!
What I most hope for from this resurgent national team is that it gets Colombians watching Colombian football again. Seemed a struggle to find that many regular match-goers, but everyone watch the bloody Madrid-Barca Clasico. And the media are so sensationalist it wares off on everyone - anything other than a win is usually followed by calls for the manager's head, replace all the players... (which seems to be the standard every season).
By the way, have you ever seen the film "Golpe de estadio"?
Think I might be in BA late December-early Jan - is there any fútbol going on then?
What a complete cn.ut.(Del pereira, that is)
Just looked the tøsser up and he said afterwards..'it wasnt my intention to hurt the animal'.
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