| Just got back 22:59 - Aug 6 with 7946 views | RotherhamDale |
We played okay tonight. After holding on in the early stages of each half we were in the game, but struggled to create any clear cut chances.
Their goal was from an inswinging free kick that got glanced into the far corner. It came during our best period of the game.
Hill needs to have a look at how we concentrate when defending set pieces. 4 or 5 times tonight, the team just switched off as the ball went out.
Donny hit the bar twice. Once in the first half from a header from a corner, and Coppinger cut inside and forced a brilliant save from Lillis (who had an excellent game) in the second.
My Marks:
Lillis - 9 (MOM) - Kept us in it at times. Didn't put a foot wrong, and couldn't help the goal.
Rafferty - 6 - He looked weak tonight but improved in the second half (Apart from a half hearted tackle which led to them hitting the bar)
Eastham - 7 - Played well.
Lancashire - 7 - Played well.
O'Connell - 6 - Isn't a left back but he did alright.
Vincenti - 5 - Thought he was our worst player. He looked absolutely shattered in the second half.
Tutte - 8 - Would have been my MOM if Lillis didn't do so well.
Lund - 7 - Played Well
Hery - 6 - Ran a lot but didn't do much else.
Done - 7 - Drifted in and out the game. Looked better when switched to behind the front man.
Hogan - 6 - Struggled against 2 big centre halves. Needs to lift his head up more often.
Subs:
Henderson - 8 - Looked excellent.
Donnelly - 7 - Lots of effort. Positive.
[Post edited 6 Aug 2013 23:02]
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| Just got back on 23:25 - Aug 6 with 6168 views | dilligas |
Funny how different people see things I thought Vincenti was excellent tonight |  | | |
| Just got back on 23:42 - Aug 6 with 6129 views | isitme |
He worked hard and won lots of headers but his use of the ball was poor in my opinion. Lund was my man of the match although I think he is better suited with Cav behind him which allows him more freedom going forward. |  | | |
| Just got back on 00:52 - Aug 7 with 6020 views | NotClingers |
Agree with the OP completely.
I thought Tutte was the best player on the pitch tonight for large parts of the game.
Rafferty got caught out of position again too many times for me tonight and he looks the weak link in the team IMO.
Vincenti looks set to be a player that divides opinion. Fantastic in the air and has unquestionable work-rate but he's too casual with the ball for me and his crossing was quite horrendous at times tonight.
Personally think playing Hogan up front tonight was a wrong move. Didn't have the same freedom to run at players and looked to struggle with his back to goal against two beastly centre halves. Made some good runs though and got done a few times by some very poor decisions by the linesman.
Referee was horrendous tonight also. Made some absolutely baffling decisions tonight, coupled with that, 'I hope the cameras are on me' cheesey grin that everybody loves.
Lillis made some absolutely fantastic saves and I still maintain he's one of the best shot-stoppers I've seen at Rochdale in a long time.
Lund looks a quality player and the perfect replacement for JK.
Done looked pretty good but seems to lack the same confidence he had here the first time around in terms of trying to beat a man. WIll do well for us.
Looked solid for the most part defensively and I have faith that Eastham and Lancashire will turn into a good partnership. Thought O'Connell did OK too considering he was played a little out of position.
Donnelly was Donnelly tonight. Chased down every ball and had the extra strength that Hogan seemed to lack when going toe to toe with circus freak Rob Jones. He's a must starter up top for me if we're to do well this season.
Hery was fairly decent but his first touch seemed to let him down a few times tonight. Seems strong and skilful and will be a useful impact player at the very least.
Thought we played well tonight, especially second half and didn't deserve to lose over the 90 minutes. If we play like that in the league then we won't have any problems achieving what we all want to achieve. |  | | |
| Just got back on 01:37 - Aug 7 with 5969 views | blakeyj |
Thought were unlucky especially having about 60% possession in the second half despite lillis making two great saves and them hitting the bar twice i though it was an even game
Tutte was my MOM thought him and lund were excellent in the centre dominating the midfield
Hogan didn't offer much and i think hilly should of started georgie against those two centre halfs for me set pieces is a worry whether it was them being a tall team but we failed to create many oppurtunities with our and they always looked like they were going to score theres
Ref had a poor game there was a lot of shirt pulling in the doncaster box that i have seen penalties given for and you dispute the foul that awarded them with the freekick that lead to there goal and he rarely played advantages once we were in good positions
All in all a entertaining game with quite a good atmosphere in the rochdale end and looking forward to burton | | | |
| Just got back on 09:56 - Aug 7 with 5624 views | bazingadale |
seen vincenti 3 times now and yet to be impressed. Not seen him sprint with the ball at feet and like notclingers said is far too casual.
For me he is not a winger and id only play him through the middle
Rafferty for me was the worst player on the park tonight and he is really struggling to reach the level of performances expected from him.
Hopefully vidal or bennett are given a chance soon.
Lillis was fantastic, some absolutely fantastic saves keeping us in it.
special mention for Cav after all the abuse he has taken this past 12 months to see posts like " we really missed Cav tonight" shows how vital he now is to the team |  | | |
| Just got back on 12:53 - Aug 7 with 5460 views | Ralphs12 |
| Just got back on 09:56 - Aug 7 by bazingadale |
seen vincenti 3 times now and yet to be impressed. Not seen him sprint with the ball at feet and like notclingers said is far too casual.
For me he is not a winger and id only play him through the middle
Rafferty for me was the worst player on the park tonight and he is really struggling to reach the level of performances expected from him.
Hopefully vidal or bennett are given a chance soon.
Lillis was fantastic, some absolutely fantastic saves keeping us in it.
special mention for Cav after all the abuse he has taken this past 12 months to see posts like " we really missed Cav tonight" shows how vital he now is to the team |
Thing with Vincenti is he is a really good outlet out wide, how many full backs will beat him in the air? I dont think hes the type of player to run at a defender everytime - much like thompson was but his aerial ability will allow us to mix it up. |  | | |
| Just got back on 18:14 - Aug 7 with 5128 views | wmgunit |
The Rafferty-Vincenti combination was certainly an intriguing one.
Rafferty's positional play was poor once again yesterday evening. Caught out a number of times whether it was moaning to the referee when play had resumed, stuck up the pitch or just sheer lack of instinct as to where he needed to be. Even when in position, he was over committing to tackles and being left for dead by their winger repeatedly (the limited highlights only provide a glimpse of this).
Granted he was up against Championship opposition and I don't think he is helped by having to play the more challenging role of a wingback, but you looked out on to the pitch to see several other players presented with new demands set by Hilly and rising to them.
I'll give Rafferty one thing though, that he was busting a gut to get forward when we were on the offensive. Which is more than can be said for Vincenti's languid style. I'm still not entirely sure what to make of him. His aerial ability is undoubtedly an asset. I imagine Hilly sees him in a similar role to that which O'Grady played in League 1: a foil for goal kicks, who uses his strength and control, rather than pace, to work the ball inside for goal scoring opportunities. Overtime I can see this working, he can certainly beat a man, but his fitness and strength will need to be worked on.
I think he would also benefit from a more creative and assured full back behind him. Too often Vincenti and Rafferty just did not click. This was exemplified by a succession of throw ins won in Doncasters half. Short of ideas they played it to each other until Rafferty just punted it out of play/to the goal keeper. Whether Bennett is the answer I am not sure.
On the positive side, I think Tutte sent a message to all the critics with a controlled and creative performance. Lund had a strong second half, so much so that I think a Tutte-Lund partnership in midfield could edge out Cav in the the long term, providing that bit more dynamism.
Lillis was excellent again and I felt Hery was unlucky to be subbed off at halftime. [Post edited 7 Aug 2013 18:17]
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| Just got back on 18:15 - Aug 7 with 5120 views | dilligas |
I don't think I've seen Vincenti have a bad game. | | | |
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| Just got back on 18:21 - Aug 7 with 5109 views | SalwaDale |
I've been pretty pleased with both performances and have no idea why Rafferty seems to be getting a little bit of stick. I did think Vincenti looked tired and could have been brought off. Fortunately I'm just a messageboard manager and he very nearly got the equaliser.
I find it very difficult to complain about anything we've seen this season, 1000000000 times better than last year. |  |
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| Just got back on 18:28 - Aug 7 with 5097 views | wmgunit |
| Just got back on 18:21 - Aug 7 by SalwaDale |
I've been pretty pleased with both performances and have no idea why Rafferty seems to be getting a little bit of stick. I did think Vincenti looked tired and could have been brought off. Fortunately I'm just a messageboard manager and he very nearly got the equaliser.
I find it very difficult to complain about anything we've seen this season, 1000000000 times better than last year. |
Undoubtedly. The level of performance is lightyears ahead of this time last year. The tangible opportunities for it to improve further makes it all the more exciting. | | | |
| Just got back on 19:04 - Aug 7 with 5043 views | sweetcorn |
| Just got back on 18:14 - Aug 7 by wmgunit |
The Rafferty-Vincenti combination was certainly an intriguing one.
Rafferty's positional play was poor once again yesterday evening. Caught out a number of times whether it was moaning to the referee when play had resumed, stuck up the pitch or just sheer lack of instinct as to where he needed to be. Even when in position, he was over committing to tackles and being left for dead by their winger repeatedly (the limited highlights only provide a glimpse of this).
Granted he was up against Championship opposition and I don't think he is helped by having to play the more challenging role of a wingback, but you looked out on to the pitch to see several other players presented with new demands set by Hilly and rising to them.
I'll give Rafferty one thing though, that he was busting a gut to get forward when we were on the offensive. Which is more than can be said for Vincenti's languid style. I'm still not entirely sure what to make of him. His aerial ability is undoubtedly an asset. I imagine Hilly sees him in a similar role to that which O'Grady played in League 1: a foil for goal kicks, who uses his strength and control, rather than pace, to work the ball inside for goal scoring opportunities. Overtime I can see this working, he can certainly beat a man, but his fitness and strength will need to be worked on.
I think he would also benefit from a more creative and assured full back behind him. Too often Vincenti and Rafferty just did not click. This was exemplified by a succession of throw ins won in Doncasters half. Short of ideas they played it to each other until Rafferty just punted it out of play/to the goal keeper. Whether Bennett is the answer I am not sure.
On the positive side, I think Tutte sent a message to all the critics with a controlled and creative performance. Lund had a strong second half, so much so that I think a Tutte-Lund partnership in midfield could edge out Cav in the the long term, providing that bit more dynamism.
Lillis was excellent again and I felt Hery was unlucky to be subbed off at halftime. [Post edited 7 Aug 2013 18:17]
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Not for me. Tutte blows hot and cold. Whilst I think he has talent, cav has been consistantly good since christmas last year, provides better defensive cover and will give lund (or tutte) more freedom when he's in the team.
For me theres only one place up for grabs and thats who sits next to cav. |  |
| Leader of the little gang of immature cretins. |
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| Just got back on 20:50 - Aug 7 with 4872 views | YouTubeDale |
I know we tried to play a high line when defending the goal but yet again it demonstrates, for me, why you should have men on the posts. They are like gold and over the season could give us quite a few points. The Preston goal could have been prevented with a man on the post. At the fans' forum Hilly seemed to dodge the question when asked about putting men on the post. I think it is a chink in our armour that needs sorting.
Apart from that I was pleased with our performance and we battled hard against a good team , earning the right to be in the contest right up to the 89th minute. [Post edited 7 Aug 2013 20:52]
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| Just got back on 21:17 - Aug 7 with 4826 views | Tiki_Beach |
| Just got back on 20:50 - Aug 7 by YouTubeDale |
I know we tried to play a high line when defending the goal but yet again it demonstrates, for me, why you should have men on the posts. They are like gold and over the season could give us quite a few points. The Preston goal could have been prevented with a man on the post. At the fans' forum Hilly seemed to dodge the question when asked about putting men on the post. I think it is a chink in our armour that needs sorting.
Apart from that I was pleased with our performance and we battled hard against a good team , earning the right to be in the contest right up to the 89th minute. [Post edited 7 Aug 2013 20:52]
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Putting men on the posts from corners, I understand. Applying the same method when defending a deep free kick would just be inviting pressure on to us, given that we'll be forced to defend as deep as the goal line. |  | | |
| Just got back on 21:18 - Aug 7 with 4818 views | wmgunit |
I'm going to have to watch Cav a little more closely in the next game because I can't understand why all this praise is being heaped on him. I was never one of the boo boys at the beginning, but neither have I seen a massive transformation in his level of performance since the end of last season.
He seems to make the odd interception or two, but I haven't really noticed him provide vital cover or set the tempo of our own play. But he's getting plaudits from Away fans even, so I best pay more attention. | | | |
| Just got back on 22:12 - Aug 7 with 4726 views | isitme |
| Just got back on 21:18 - Aug 7 by wmgunit |
I'm going to have to watch Cav a little more closely in the next game because I can't understand why all this praise is being heaped on him. I was never one of the boo boys at the beginning, but neither have I seen a massive transformation in his level of performance since the end of last season.
He seems to make the odd interception or two, but I haven't really noticed him provide vital cover or set the tempo of our own play. But he's getting plaudits from Away fans even, so I best pay more attention. |
He does the donkey work so that others can play hence why he doesn't get noticed as s much. In a young team he also provides that bit of experience and organisational skill. | | | |
| Just got back on 00:34 - Aug 8 with 4586 views | off2div1 |
| Just got back on 23:25 - Aug 6 by dilligas |
Funny how different people see things I thought Vincenti was excellent tonight |
Vincenti kept winning headers but no one gambled to make runs for the ball |  | | |
| Just got back on 00:51 - Aug 8 with 4575 views | wmgunit |
| Just got back on 22:12 - Aug 7 by isitme |
He does the donkey work so that others can play hence why he doesn't get noticed as s much. In a young team he also provides that bit of experience and organisational skill. |
I just haven't seen much of that donkey work.
In some ways I think it's a bit of a cop out to say he does the 'unseen' and 'donkey work'. It doesn't actually identify or explain what value he adds. As I say though, I will pay closer attention to him in the upcoming games to better understand. [Post edited 8 Aug 2013 0:58]
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| Just got back on 00:55 - Aug 8 with 4569 views | Knowlesy |
| Just got back on 00:51 - Aug 8 by wmgunit |
I just haven't seen much of that donkey work.
In some ways I think it's a bit of a cop out to say he does the 'unseen' and 'donkey work'. It doesn't actually identify or explain what value he adds. As I say though, I will pay closer attention to him in the upcoming games to better understand. [Post edited 8 Aug 2013 0:58]
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Basically, it goes unseen because he's not surging past midfielders and creating chance after chance. Or something. But what he does offer is solidity, a constant option for players to use as an outlet so that we can keep possession and find space in other areas of the pitch.
He's the head of the diamond that the other players can bounce off and will break up play when we lose possession.
That's how I see it anyway. |  | | |
| Just got back on 10:14 - Aug 8 with 4395 views | isitme |
| Just got back on 00:51 - Aug 8 by wmgunit |
I just haven't seen much of that donkey work.
In some ways I think it's a bit of a cop out to say he does the 'unseen' and 'donkey work'. It doesn't actually identify or explain what value he adds. As I say though, I will pay closer attention to him in the upcoming games to better understand. [Post edited 8 Aug 2013 0:58]
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He will sit in front of the back four. This allows the other players to go forward, if the move breaks down he is there to cover the full back who has been caught forward. He also breaks up a number of opposition moves and offers himself short for a pass off the back four and then moves the ball on.
Watch for those three things on Saturday if you are going to the game, or if not during the next home game. | | | |
| Just got back on 10:16 - Aug 8 with 4395 views | dale_spotland |
| Just got back on 20:50 - Aug 7 by YouTubeDale |
I know we tried to play a high line when defending the goal but yet again it demonstrates, for me, why you should have men on the posts. They are like gold and over the season could give us quite a few points. The Preston goal could have been prevented with a man on the post. At the fans' forum Hilly seemed to dodge the question when asked about putting men on the post. I think it is a chink in our armour that needs sorting.
Apart from that I was pleased with our performance and we battled hard against a good team , earning the right to be in the contest right up to the 89th minute. [Post edited 7 Aug 2013 20:52]
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I disagree, teams would take advantage as we would be defending basically on the goal line, on corners yes definitely have men on the posts, however when it comes to free kicks the attackers will go as far up as we let them, if we let them on the 6 yard line it basically turns a run of the mill free kick into a corner. |  |
| Days like this one weren't supposed to happen to Rochdale. |
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| Just got back on 10:50 - Aug 8 with 4356 views | wmgunit |
| Just got back on 10:14 - Aug 8 by isitme |
He will sit in front of the back four. This allows the other players to go forward, if the move breaks down he is there to cover the full back who has been caught forward. He also breaks up a number of opposition moves and offers himself short for a pass off the back four and then moves the ball on.
Watch for those three things on Saturday if you are going to the game, or if not during the next home game. |
Cheers. I understand what the purpose of his role is. Just not sure i have witnessed it in action enough. Given the number of people claiming to have done so, I just must not be paying close enough attention. | | | |
| Just got back on 13:29 - Aug 8 with 4230 views | trueblue83 |
I take no joy from saying this, and i'm reluctant to use the term 'weak link', but for me, Rafferty is exactly that.
As previously mentioned, positional play is quite poor. The lad seems to be a good tackler and has no lack of effort, but seems to have a lack of pace and awareness. For me, once the opposition are past him (a bit too often), I don't think he has the pace to recover.
I notice Vicenti is getting mixed reviews, but I have been v impressed. His work rate to get back and defend should help Raff no end. And his good close control, coupled with his physicality, should make him a real handful for any L2 full back, regardless of the lack of pace.
From the Hartlepool game, it seemed as though either Cav and Lund were having to make sure they overcompensated in covering Raff, as well as Vicenti to some degree.
I'm gutted I didn't get to see Vidal in a pre-season and so cannot comment on his suitability, but from what I saw of Rhys Bennett last season, he could soon start to put real pressure on Raff once Hilly is happy he is fully recovered etc.
Despite the above, Raff is only a v young player, and its evident from the pre-season article where he had taken some youth players under his wing, he's obviously got a very good attitude etc
Positives and negatives, but the negatives are outweighing the positive, at the moment. | |
| "You can compare us at the moment to a bit of soft porn - there is an awful lot of foreplay and not a lot going on in the box" - Sir Keith Hill |
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| Just got back on 13:31 - Aug 8 with 4222 views | SalwaDale |
I kind of disagree. Watching him it is clear that there is room for improvement but I thought he was the better of the two fullbacks on Tuesday. | |
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| Just got back on 16:58 - Aug 8 with 4116 views | 49thseason |
I feel a bit sorry for Rafferty reading some of the comments on here. The kid is 19 years old, has a good pedigree (Liverpool academy) and like many premiership academy players who get thrown into the cut and thrust of league 1&2 (Darby & Eccleston for example) is probably finding the physicality hard to deal with. I have noticed several teams target his lack of height in the second half of games and I am yet to see him pull out of a header or tackle. That's not to say he wins them all or that there is not more work to do but he works hard, is brave and I am sure there is a good footballer in there. Anticipation and positioning will come with experience but I think he has the basic building blocks,....if only he were six inches taller! Oh, and he is now working for a "proper" coach in a professional environment , it can only get better. |  | | |
| Just got back on 17:26 - Aug 8 with 4081 views | trueblue83 |
| Just got back on 16:58 - Aug 8 by 49thseason |
I feel a bit sorry for Rafferty reading some of the comments on here. The kid is 19 years old, has a good pedigree (Liverpool academy) and like many premiership academy players who get thrown into the cut and thrust of league 1&2 (Darby & Eccleston for example) is probably finding the physicality hard to deal with. I have noticed several teams target his lack of height in the second half of games and I am yet to see him pull out of a header or tackle. That's not to say he wins them all or that there is not more work to do but he works hard, is brave and I am sure there is a good footballer in there. Anticipation and positioning will come with experience but I think he has the basic building blocks,....if only he were six inches taller! Oh, and he is now working for a "proper" coach in a professional environment , it can only get better. |
I fully agree.
This does not mean I am back-tracking on my post, but I admittedly missed out a crucial part from my post, and that was the fact that we are truly spoilt with the quality we have in our squad at the moment. Of that squad, comparatively I feel Raff has a little bit of extra work to do on his positional side of the game, because it stood out to me, and I'm no genius, which makes me fear he may get targeted by some teams. If there was ever a manager to bring him on though, it would be Hilly. I just hope he hurries up and improves his positioning because before too long, Bennett or Vidal will be putting serious pressure on Raff for his starting place, in my opinion.
I can see Raff eventually becoming a player like we had in Wayne Evans (a rugged full back whose priority is defending), but I don't think time is on his side, especially given the strong competition for places that exists.
I think patience is the key with Rafferty, but I think that is something that unfortunately left a few of us during the Coleman era. | |
| "You can compare us at the moment to a bit of soft porn - there is an awful lot of foreplay and not a lot going on in the box" - Sir Keith Hill |
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