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The one thing I am certain of re this vote is that no-one knows for sure what the repercussions economically will be if we pull out. If you listen to the experts it will be better if we stay in, however its all unconvincing. My issue is that after 10 years of Austerity, the services in this country have been cut to the bone, that is services that are needed by us all - not just Immigrants/benefit spongers. We are not in a position to afford the enormous gamble if it all goes t1ts up. I am taking my lead from Ray Winston and gambling responsibly and staying in. If we ever get to situation when everything is adequately funded and horrible 0 hours contracts were abolished ... then maybe it might be worth the risk to pull out. But to do it now is a massive gamble which we just cannot afford to lose.
2
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 09:00 - Jun 17 with 4739 views
I think the IN vote will win but it will be close.
What annoys me is most of the people voting IN are not happy with many aspects of the EU and want reform.... Will we get reform if the vote is really close???... Cameron hit a brick wall with his demands a few months ago.
There's almost a "its sh1te but at least we can keep muddling along", from the IN crowd.
I have made my mind up based on doing my own research and coming to my own conclusions. I hope the vote sends a clear message to Europe that change is required.
1
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:34 - Jun 17 with 4630 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 09:29 - Jun 17 by Rs_Holy
I think the IN vote will win but it will be close.
What annoys me is most of the people voting IN are not happy with many aspects of the EU and want reform.... Will we get reform if the vote is really close???... Cameron hit a brick wall with his demands a few months ago.
There's almost a "its sh1te but at least we can keep muddling along", from the IN crowd.
I have made my mind up based on doing my own research and coming to my own conclusions. I hope the vote sends a clear message to Europe that change is required.
There's almost a "its sh1te but at least we can keep muddling along"
^^^ This part seems a very good fit for QPR as well
0
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:18 - Jun 17 with 4594 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:34 - Jun 17 by BasingstokeR
There's almost a "its sh1te but at least we can keep muddling along"
^^^ This part seems a very good fit for QPR as well
or even life itself
nothing is perfect, personally i am staying on the ledge resulting with shit up to my chin, rather than stepping onto the ledge of unknown depth but looks a bit lower to me
0
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:56 - Jun 17 with 4570 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:45 - Jun 16 by PinnerPaul
Article in the Eve Std, speculated that if it was say a 52/48 exit result on say 55% turn out, that would mean that "only" 25 - 30% of public wanted to exit so that would give a possbile mandate to commons (70/30 in favour of staying in) to reject the referendum result.
I thought the same people were elected by just 25% of the electorate?So much for democracy.
1
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:56 - Jun 17 with 4559 views
It increasingly become obvious to me this is more than just about the EU. This has become about the rise of the new Right and their increasing influence and confidence in Britain and globally.
There are so many parallels between Leave, Trump, Putin and to some extent German national Socialism of the 1930s.
Stage 1- Repeat the county's broke, it is a shadow of it's former self. etc etc.
Stage 2 - Blame the bogeyman. The EU Commission, the West, Mexicans, Versaille, immigrants, Jews, liberal lefties.
Stage 3 - State vote for me, I can fix the country, take the power back, make America great again.
Stage 4 (Russia and 1930s Germany so far) - take power, strengthen and consolidate with the use of violence, stamp out political dissent.
[Post edited 17 Jun 2016 12:01]
0
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:18 - Jun 17 with 4549 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:56 - Jun 17 by stumbleandfall
It increasingly become obvious to me this is more than just about the EU. This has become about the rise of the new Right and their increasing influence and confidence in Britain and globally.
There are so many parallels between Leave, Trump, Putin and to some extent German national Socialism of the 1930s.
Stage 1- Repeat the county's broke, it is a shadow of it's former self. etc etc.
Stage 2 - Blame the bogeyman. The EU Commission, the West, Mexicans, Versaille, immigrants, Jews, liberal lefties.
Stage 3 - State vote for me, I can fix the country, take the power back, make America great again.
Stage 4 (Russia and 1930s Germany so far) - take power, strengthen and consolidate with the use of violence, stamp out political dissent.
[Post edited 17 Jun 2016 12:01]
We have democracy in the UK... If this "new rise of fascism" starts to get out of hand they will get well & truly chucked out at the next election... We don't do extremism in the UK!!! Where are the National Front/BNP these days??? Far right parties may be on the rise in other EU countires but not the UK!
[Post edited 17 Jun 2016 16:05]
0
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:25 - Jun 17 with 4525 views
I concede to an extent you are correct. However I do detect a cultural shift to the right.
I don't fear some sort of totalitarian state, just increasing division in society. I believe we are already seeing America as increasingly polarised. And we are following suit.
Where the fig are the moderates dominating in the centre?
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:18 - Jun 17 by Rs_Holy
We have democracy in the UK... If this "new rise of fascism" starts to get out of hand they will get well & truly chucked out at the next election... We don't do extremism in the UK!!! Where are the National Front/BNP these days??? Far right parties may be on the rise in other EU countires but not the UK!
[Post edited 17 Jun 2016 16:05]
"We don't do extremism in the UK."
Not sure about that one. This entire referendum only happened because Cameron was worried about haemorrhaging support to UKIP at the last election, and UKIP are and always have been extremists.
The mechanics of our electoral system mean you don't tend to get many smaller parties of any kind actually becoming MPs, but this horror show of the last few weeks shows there are other ways for their influence to be felt. And hasn't it just.
The decline of the BNP has as much to do with UKIP giving their arguments a more publicly respectable face as it does with any supposed British moderation. It was a similar situation in the late 70s/early 80s when Thatcher co-opted a lot of "softer" NF supporters by talking about immigrants "swamping" British culture and allowing the police to be seen to crack down on young blacks in inner cities with SUS laws.
"We have democracy" sounds a bit complacent today of all days. It doesn't always start with tanks.
[Post edited 17 Jun 2016 12:45]
0
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:57 - Jun 17 with 4481 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:44 - Jun 17 by DannytheR
"We don't do extremism in the UK."
Not sure about that one. This entire referendum only happened because Cameron was worried about haemorrhaging support to UKIP at the last election, and UKIP are and always have been extremists.
The mechanics of our electoral system mean you don't tend to get many smaller parties of any kind actually becoming MPs, but this horror show of the last few weeks shows there are other ways for their influence to be felt. And hasn't it just.
The decline of the BNP has as much to do with UKIP giving their arguments a more publicly respectable face as it does with any supposed British moderation. It was a similar situation in the late 70s/early 80s when Thatcher co-opted a lot of "softer" NF supporters by talking about immigrants "swamping" British culture and allowing the police to be seen to crack down on young blacks in inner cities with SUS laws.
"We have democracy" sounds a bit complacent today of all days. It doesn't always start with tanks.
[Post edited 17 Jun 2016 12:45]
Can we really compare UKIP and the BNP??? You may as well point the finger at Australia and Canada as extremists because they have a points based immigration system.
0
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:21 - Jun 17 with 4430 views
Don't you think it would be a nice gesture after yesterday's events to suspend the canvassing and political capital until after the weekend - as everyone else has done?
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:17 - Jun 17 by Rs_Holy
Can we really compare UKIP and the BNP??? You may as well point the finger at Australia and Canada as extremists because they have a points based immigration system.
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:17 - Jun 17 by Rs_Holy
Can we really compare UKIP and the BNP??? You may as well point the finger at Australia and Canada as extremists because they have a points based immigration system.
I think it's fair to say the parties both appeal to the same group with the exception that UKIP has a more moderate stance which appeals to people beyond former BNP voters. For example at work the guy who sits next to me is strongly UKIP, his political history is NF, BNP and most recently UKIP. He doesn't like foreigners coming here basically and will support anyone who stops that happening, he's also quite openly homophobic just as an example of how honest he is about his views which I respect him for even if I do believe his a bigot. The guy who sits opposite me is historically a conservative voter, he was never BNP or NF (that he's told me) but he would vote UKIP as he broadly believes in their policies and is a firm out vote.
So you're right to say that you can't compare the parties but to believe there's no overlap or underlying remnants of BNP or NF in the UKIP is in my opinion short sighted. It has nothing to do with them wanting a vague promise of a points based immigration system which they are yet to develop beyond a sound bite to give any detail despite banging on about it for several years.
0
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:31 - Jun 17 with 3448 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:21 - Jun 17 by TheBlob
Don't you think it would be a nice gesture after yesterday's events to suspend the canvassing and political capital until after the weekend - as everyone else has done?
Nick Griffin said that unlike UKIP, which favours a reduction in immigration, the BNP's policy was to "shut the door - we don't want anyone, black brown, green or white".
But if we still think the points system is right wing extremist can we also point the finger at Dennis Skinner, Kate Hoey and Frank Field???
0
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:51 - Jun 17 with 3399 views
What happens if it's a tie? Will there be penalties? Scissors, paper, stone? A golden goal? A golden over? A silver goal? A decision based on the state of a chicken's liver? Belomancy?
Perhaps during the respectful ceasefire due to the MP's murder, the politicians could debate that. It would lighten the mood.
RFA
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
0
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:59 - Jun 17 with 3383 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:51 - Jun 17 by R_from_afar
What happens if it's a tie? Will there be penalties? Scissors, paper, stone? A golden goal? A golden over? A silver goal? A decision based on the state of a chicken's liver? Belomancy?
Perhaps during the respectful ceasefire due to the MP's murder, the politicians could debate that. It would lighten the mood.
RFA
there's only one way to find out....
0
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:13 - Jun 17 with 3354 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:38 - Jun 17 by Rs_Holy
Nick Griffin said that unlike UKIP, which favours a reduction in immigration, the BNP's policy was to "shut the door - we don't want anyone, black brown, green or white".
But if we still think the points system is right wing extremist can we also point the finger at Dennis Skinner, Kate Hoey and Frank Field???
The rest of the Nick Griffin quote you mention is him saying: "They (UKIP) are using all of our rhetoric, they are using our slogans, they are recycling our posters and people like it."
That was the point I was making. You said at the start of this that we don't "do extremism" in Britain. The BNP was clearly a big influence on UKIP - there have been all kinds of well documented links between them in ideas, people and even election slogans. And in turn the rise of UKIP was why Cameron included the referendum in the Tory manifesto.
The road to so many of the nightmares we saw in Europe in the 30s didn't start with a military coup. It started with people, most of who just wanted things to improve economically, being persuaded to vote to "take their country back."
0
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:21 - Jun 17 with 3334 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:13 - Jun 17 by DannytheR
The rest of the Nick Griffin quote you mention is him saying: "They (UKIP) are using all of our rhetoric, they are using our slogans, they are recycling our posters and people like it."
That was the point I was making. You said at the start of this that we don't "do extremism" in Britain. The BNP was clearly a big influence on UKIP - there have been all kinds of well documented links between them in ideas, people and even election slogans. And in turn the rise of UKIP was why Cameron included the referendum in the Tory manifesto.
The road to so many of the nightmares we saw in Europe in the 30s didn't start with a military coup. It started with people, most of who just wanted things to improve economically, being persuaded to vote to "take their country back."
OK mate I guess we have to simply agree to dis-agree...
Bottom line is in the UK we have democracy... Every 5 years we can throw out any government that over steps the mark! As long as we can do this I think we'll be alright.
0
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 15:28 - Jun 17 with 3284 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:13 - Jun 17 by DannytheR
The rest of the Nick Griffin quote you mention is him saying: "They (UKIP) are using all of our rhetoric, they are using our slogans, they are recycling our posters and people like it."
That was the point I was making. You said at the start of this that we don't "do extremism" in Britain. The BNP was clearly a big influence on UKIP - there have been all kinds of well documented links between them in ideas, people and even election slogans. And in turn the rise of UKIP was why Cameron included the referendum in the Tory manifesto.
The road to so many of the nightmares we saw in Europe in the 30s didn't start with a military coup. It started with people, most of who just wanted things to improve economically, being persuaded to vote to "take their country back."
Latest UKIP 'Breaking Point' poster has come in for some criticism
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:21 - Jun 17 by Rs_Holy
OK mate I guess we have to simply agree to dis-agree...
Bottom line is in the UK we have democracy... Every 5 years we can throw out any government that over steps the mark! As long as we can do this I think we'll be alright.
Do we? 2 of the 3 arms of the legisalture are unelected. The unelected house of Lords (40% hereditary) and the Queen have veto over our laws. Further we have an electoral system where UKIP get 8 million votes and 1 seat, while 25% of the population vote Conservative and they can do as they please
2
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 15:45 - Jun 17 with 3255 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:56 - Jun 17 by stumbleandfall
It increasingly become obvious to me this is more than just about the EU. This has become about the rise of the new Right and their increasing influence and confidence in Britain and globally.
There are so many parallels between Leave, Trump, Putin and to some extent German national Socialism of the 1930s.
Stage 1- Repeat the county's broke, it is a shadow of it's former self. etc etc.
Stage 2 - Blame the bogeyman. The EU Commission, the West, Mexicans, Versaille, immigrants, Jews, liberal lefties.
Stage 3 - State vote for me, I can fix the country, take the power back, make America great again.
Stage 4 (Russia and 1930s Germany so far) - take power, strengthen and consolidate with the use of violence, stamp out political dissent.
[Post edited 17 Jun 2016 12:01]
I dont think I have been offended before on here but this post has done it .
To align ordinary people with a sincerely held point of view in a legitimate democratically called vote with the list that you have is a fcking insult .
Cheerio........... Ignored
[Post edited 17 Jun 2016 15:47]
1
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 15:45 - Jun 17 with 3255 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:44 - Jun 17 by DannytheR
"We don't do extremism in the UK."
Not sure about that one. This entire referendum only happened because Cameron was worried about haemorrhaging support to UKIP at the last election, and UKIP are and always have been extremists.
The mechanics of our electoral system mean you don't tend to get many smaller parties of any kind actually becoming MPs, but this horror show of the last few weeks shows there are other ways for their influence to be felt. And hasn't it just.
The decline of the BNP has as much to do with UKIP giving their arguments a more publicly respectable face as it does with any supposed British moderation. It was a similar situation in the late 70s/early 80s when Thatcher co-opted a lot of "softer" NF supporters by talking about immigrants "swamping" British culture and allowing the police to be seen to crack down on young blacks in inner cities with SUS laws.
"We have democracy" sounds a bit complacent today of all days. It doesn't always start with tanks.
[Post edited 17 Jun 2016 12:45]
In short, if you're a leftie, then anyone who has views even just partially to the right of their own then you are an Extremist Nazi Homophobic Raaaaayyyyciisssssstttt, thug.
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