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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 11:07 - Jul 17 by Dyfnant
Valencia have been a shambles for years, don't assign any blame for 'failing' there. Also the mooted fee/buy out clause is €30M not £, Think PC has the right to be trusted with HIS judgement, not as if we'd be signing this guy if Siggy wasn't going.
And Standard Liege? You'd think this 'superstar' would stand out a mile in that team, but he couldn't get a game as a 25 year old
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 11:14 - Jul 17 with 2450 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:03 - Jul 17 by pikeypaul
I call Bull shite
Las Palmas ST holder are you?
I doubt like 99% of our fans if you could have picked him out in an identity parade before we were linked to him,let alone analysed his play in so much detail that you have come to the conclusion that Siggy is the better all round player.
How many other players throughout Europe playing for clubs like Las Palmas have you analysed in so much detail?
[Post edited 17 Jul 2017 9:33]
Viera is an obvious candidate. Las Palmas put in some good displays against Barca and Real. It was big news and Mesa and Viera got a lot of credit. A lot my overseas friends support either Barca or Real and have been impressed by Las Palmas. Athletico Bilbao as well.
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 11:22 - Jul 17 with 2405 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 11:13 - Jul 17 by hobo
And Standard Liege? You'd think this 'superstar' would stand out a mile in that team, but he couldn't get a game as a 25 year old
Correct.
€30m is a superstars fee in Europe. People are being way too loose with the purse strings, it shouldnt matter what we have received, our standards and what we understand of the market shouldn't waver. If I got 100k for my vintage merc, buying an old fiat punto for 50k is not justifiable just because I can afford it at the time and need a car.
€30m should be able to allow us to sign a player that tivks all the boxes. Right age, right experience, right attitude and bags of value for years to come. We have had the biggest budget we have ever had and have adopted the attitude of the worst budget we have ever had, making do with certain aspects that are not right about the deal just because we can currently afford it.
You can probably get a young international player on the fringes of the Barca/Real side wanting regular first team football for €30m.
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 15:09 - Jul 16 by Neath_Jack
So are people telling me that this Viera chap is the best player out there in that position for us? Or is it lazy scouting again, he's played with Mesa, let's go get him?
I find it hard to believe that he is the best player out there for the money we are looking to spend.
Spot on!! Might be fairly decent but seems like lazy scouting
For this sort of money quoted Clement must know young players with the potential to fill Siggy's boots, especially when you have coached at Europe's elite clubs
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 11:29 - Jul 17 by Richythejack
Spot on!! Might be fairly decent but seems like lazy scouting
For this sort of money quoted Clement must know young players with the potential to fill Siggy's boots, especially when you have coached at Europe's elite clubs
[Post edited 17 Jul 2017 11:30]
Can't rely on potential that is the route to relegation. A mixture of someone who should hit the ground running together with true potential is what is required.
With the tv money in the premier league and teams knowing who we have sold and roughly how much for none of these will be cheap
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 11:22 - Jul 17 by E20Jack
Correct.
€30m is a superstars fee in Europe. People are being way too loose with the purse strings, it shouldnt matter what we have received, our standards and what we understand of the market shouldn't waver. If I got 100k for my vintage merc, buying an old fiat punto for 50k is not justifiable just because I can afford it at the time and need a car.
€30m should be able to allow us to sign a player that tivks all the boxes. Right age, right experience, right attitude and bags of value for years to come. We have had the biggest budget we have ever had and have adopted the attitude of the worst budget we have ever had, making do with certain aspects that are not right about the deal just because we can currently afford it.
You can probably get a young international player on the fringes of the Barca/Real side wanting regular first team football for €30m.
I would agree more than 15m quid is a bit rich. Players playing regularly for Las Palmas and other teams might be of more use than a fringe player from Barca or Real. Viera got heaps of praise last season though it has been reported that Mesa made them tick. This is exactly the challenge we face so these players know or have experience in not getting over awed by the opposition. It happened last season and we need a bit more character in the squad which is a difficult commodity. The type of character that keeps playing through adversity and always keeps the game within reach. Viera is a very technical player and is effectively on the fringes of the top teams but plays every week.
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 11:42 - Jul 17 with 2266 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 11:35 - Jul 17 by dobjack2
Can't rely on potential that is the route to relegation. A mixture of someone who should hit the ground running together with true potential is what is required.
With the tv money in the premier league and teams knowing who we have sold and roughly how much for none of these will be cheap
As stated, there are young players around Europe who have been performing at the top level a lot longer than 27 year old Jonathan Virea. Just because someone is young it doesnt mean they have potential and thats it. You can be 23/24 years of age and still be the best player in the league hy an absolute country mile.
When we approached Aubemeyang he had far more than just potential and if we had the required funds to pay him what he wanted and pay the club what they wanted in order to act quickly enough, it may just be us now commanding €70m for him. If we had the miney and were able to get deals done quickly as a result we may even have someone like Christian Erikson playing for us before Spurs took him. Again, these players are not just kids with potential, they are seasoned pros.
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 11:42 - Jul 17 by E20Jack
As stated, there are young players around Europe who have been performing at the top level a lot longer than 27 year old Jonathan Virea. Just because someone is young it doesnt mean they have potential and thats it. You can be 23/24 years of age and still be the best player in the league hy an absolute country mile.
When we approached Aubemeyang he had far more than just potential and if we had the required funds to pay him what he wanted and pay the club what they wanted in order to act quickly enough, it may just be us now commanding €70m for him. If we had the miney and were able to get deals done quickly as a result we may even have someone like Christian Erikson playing for us before Spurs took him. Again, these players are not just kids with potential, they are seasoned pros.
If you take the player names, etc. out of it so it doesn't descend into a debate about the merits of any individuals...
To my mind there is nothing wrong with selling a player for £45m, signing an equivalent player (age included) for half of that and then re-investing the balance (or some of the balance) in your prospects such as Alfie, etc. As long as it's the right player, you're in no worse position personnel wise and have extra money to invest elsewhere.
In terms of the age, if he does excellently well this season then he'll be snapped up next summer without a doubt and we are likely to may a profit on the transfer (albeit the profit wouldn't be as big as it would be if he was 25 rather than 28). Most of our best/promising players since we arrived in the PL have gone within 12-18 months of them making their PL debut for us. Siggy is the only one we've managed to keep hold on for any real length of time... Any player we sign now, if he's a success wont be here "in a few seasons time" for his value to have diminished.
Of course, if there is a choice between a 24 year old direct replacement and a 27 year old direct replacement then most people would go for the younger player. That doesn't mean though that we should never sign a player over the age of 26? for significant money (or however you wish to term it).
[Post edited 17 Jul 2017 12:28]
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 12:31 - Jul 17 with 2056 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 11:41 - Jul 17 by dameedna
I would agree more than 15m quid is a bit rich. Players playing regularly for Las Palmas and other teams might be of more use than a fringe player from Barca or Real. Viera got heaps of praise last season though it has been reported that Mesa made them tick. This is exactly the challenge we face so these players know or have experience in not getting over awed by the opposition. It happened last season and we need a bit more character in the squad which is a difficult commodity. The type of character that keeps playing through adversity and always keeps the game within reach. Viera is a very technical player and is effectively on the fringes of the top teams but plays every week.
When I say that, I mean players like Pedro for example (£21m). Bojan when he signed for Stoke (£3m). Not some kid on the bench. We have 30 million to spend on this replacement by the looks of it, we should accept no less than top European/world class for that.
If we can catch these players at around 25 years old then the model is sound.
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 12:31 - Jul 17 by E20Jack
When I say that, I mean players like Pedro for example (£21m). Bojan when he signed for Stoke (£3m). Not some kid on the bench. We have 30 million to spend on this replacement by the looks of it, we should accept no less than top European/world class for that.
If we can catch these players at around 25 years old then the model is sound.
You have absolutely no clue about the financial situation at the club so give it a rest. no way the club would need to rely on £60million of sales a season to re invest in young players with a potential resale value. as it stands they could go out and spend £30 million on one player, have £20million to carry on investing for our current model and still have £10million spare. That's just off the the cork and siggy sales.
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 12:54 - Jul 17 with 1939 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 12:31 - Jul 17 by E20Jack
When I say that, I mean players like Pedro for example (£21m). Bojan when he signed for Stoke (£3m). Not some kid on the bench. We have 30 million to spend on this replacement by the looks of it, we should accept no less than top European/world class for that.
If we can catch these players at around 25 years old then the model is sound.
You shouldn't keep using Pedro as an example. He was signed well before prices flew up and was in the last year of his contract, which also makes a difference. He had the choice of the elite clubs and could pick and choose where he went.
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 12:49 - Jul 17 by Jango
You have absolutely no clue about the financial situation at the club so give it a rest. no way the club would need to rely on £60million of sales a season to re invest in young players with a potential resale value. as it stands they could go out and spend £30 million on one player, have £20million to carry on investing for our current model and still have £10million spare. That's just off the the cork and siggy sales.
How do you work that out? The accounts are released yearly and available to all at companies house. Can get a pretty big clue there.
Again you are missing the point, yes we COULD spend every single penny we have. The question is what do we do when they need replacing isnt it - not whether we can spend our life savings now or not. That is the bit that everyone is stuck on.
But signing players with no resale - means the continuous investment in the squad (quality investment at that) ends there, unless we get a stroke of luck somewhere.
I dont want to be relying on luck when we dont have to... do you? And I really dont believe we do have to, which is the point.
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 12:56 - Jul 17 by MoscowJack
You shouldn't keep using Pedro as an example. He was signed well before prices flew up and was in the last year of his contract, which also makes a difference. He had the choice of the elite clubs and could pick and choose where he went.
He's also in £150k a week!
I am happy with Pedro as an example of the type of player £21m gets you. Players contracts are running out all the time, it is not a situation unique to Pedro. Whether he would have gone to us is another thing, but it does beg the question why you would be happy to spend £27m on someone we all think is attainable when you also realise that £21m gets a player deemed to have too much quality to even consider joining us doesnt it. Doesnt make sense to me.
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 13:07 - Jul 17 by E20Jack
How do you work that out? The accounts are released yearly and available to all at companies house. Can get a pretty big clue there.
Again you are missing the point, yes we COULD spend every single penny we have. The question is what do we do when they need replacing isnt it - not whether we can spend our life savings now or not. That is the bit that everyone is stuck on.
But signing players with no resale - means the continuous investment in the squad (quality investment at that) ends there, unless we get a stroke of luck somewhere.
I dont want to be relying on luck when we dont have to... do you? And I really dont believe we do have to, which is the point.
[Post edited 17 Jul 2017 13:19]
With judicious buying and selling you can keep the ship afloat.
However when you sell a leading player for big money unless you already have a replacement at the club - walker/ trippier - you need to get someone in that you hope will hit the ground running. These days there are a number of clubs after the same players so that and sky money pushes prices up. The rest of fee Can be used in the way you suggest as long as a team has a good scouting system.
The lack of creativity in the team reduced us to set pieces last season. If we sell the person that delivered the set pieces and do not get creativity in instead we will be fecked.
I get what you are saying about sustainability but this window is crazy. Both for the money we are asking and the money we will be asked. We are paying for signing a number of mediocre players especially out wide as the team needs a few upgrades and get rids.
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 13:26 - Jul 17 with 1767 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 13:22 - Jul 17 by dobjack2
With judicious buying and selling you can keep the ship afloat.
However when you sell a leading player for big money unless you already have a replacement at the club - walker/ trippier - you need to get someone in that you hope will hit the ground running. These days there are a number of clubs after the same players so that and sky money pushes prices up. The rest of fee Can be used in the way you suggest as long as a team has a good scouting system.
The lack of creativity in the team reduced us to set pieces last season. If we sell the person that delivered the set pieces and do not get creativity in instead we will be fecked.
I get what you are saying about sustainability but this window is crazy. Both for the money we are asking and the money we will be asked. We are paying for signing a number of mediocre players especially out wide as the team needs a few upgrades and get rids.
I understand that, but I just dont see the correlation in buying someone for mega money with no sell on being able to hit the ground running, and someone with bags of sell on value not being able to.
I go back to Davy Klaasen. Why is he less likely to hit the ground running than someone like Viera? He has much better pedigree, played on the world stage, has been a consistent performer for years and known worldwide for his talents.
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 15:03 - Jul 16 by londonlisa2001
I have zero idea whether this bloke is any good or not.
But Dwight's attempt to rubbish anything the club does, doesn't hold water financially.
You'd have to look at the deal in the round as effectively a swap deal for Gylfi. We'd be swapping an attacking midfield player for another of the same age and £20m. Plus the wages saved over the next three years, or bringing someone in on, say £40k a week and losing one on £70k a week which is the best part of £5m saved on top of the £20m.
It's the 'extra' £20m that we can then play with on younger players who may earn us a substantial profit (it's gambling our winnings if you like after getting our original stake back).
Some rumours in London that we are interested in Lewis Baker from Chelsea. That's the sort of player we could profit from. And so it continues.
As I said - no idea whether this person could be a good replacement for Siggy.
Very smart comment
Your point regarding youngsters is precisely why I would've loved us to get Chalobah. Gutted he went to Watford, was a steal at 5m
Denis Suarez now of Barcelona would be around the 20m mark. He is younger than Viera at 23 and is a fringe player. Type of player that will hold value. Might be important to a budget club.
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 13:41 - Jul 17 with 1703 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 13:34 - Jul 17 by dameedna
Denis Suarez now of Barcelona would be around the 20m mark. He is younger than Viera at 23 and is a fringe player. Type of player that will hold value. Might be important to a budget club.
What about somebody like a Marco Asensio? Looked class at the U21 Euros and scored in the Champions League final
Don't know much about him or Suarez so no idea what fee he'd command but I'd say he'd be looking for more opportunities. Clement and his Real Madrid links could work in our favour there
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:10 - Jul 17 by E20Jack
Of course it's financial suicide. If we never see that money again then it's dead money. We aren't talking a couple of million here. We are talking about possibly the source of our future transfer budget for decades.
It's not as if we will do this only once. If we do it once then we will do it again. We do it again and every penny of the Gylfi transfer disappears in a few seasons. We cannot generate it back to invest into the side so we have nothing left to replace anyone with.
We then either take out loans or promote our kids to starting PL berths.
It is the epitome of financial suicide as the above will ultimately and undoubtedly lead to relegation. Keeping a £50m valued pot in the club that we can spend and regenerate every few years allows the club to prosper. I honestly cannot believe what I'm reading.
[Post edited 17 Jul 2017 9:13]
I see where you're coming from now, you aren't looking at this as a one off purchase to fill a Gylfi sized hole, you think it's going to be an average transfer for us going forward.
We need someone ready to do a job now. Resale value is far less important when you are signing someone for the here and now not for the future.
Buying 27 year olds for £25m is completely sustainable if you keep selling 27 year olds for £40m. If you can't, it's not (though I'm sure there is enough surplus tv income not to have to break even on transfers I doubt we can take too many £25m hits). Look at this as a one off to replace Siggy, not the kind of fee we will pay every time.
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Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 13:48 - Jul 17 with 1646 views
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 13:42 - Jul 17 by jack247
I see where you're coming from now, you aren't looking at this as a one off purchase to fill a Gylfi sized hole, you think it's going to be an average transfer for us going forward.
We need someone ready to do a job now. Resale value is far less important when you are signing someone for the here and now not for the future.
Buying 27 year olds for £25m is completely sustainable if you keep selling 27 year olds for £40m. If you can't, it's not (though I'm sure there is enough surplus tv income not to have to break even on transfers I doubt we can take too many £25m hits). Look at this as a one off to replace Siggy, not the kind of fee we will pay every time.
But we can pay that amount every time is my point.
The choice isnt buy an older play or dont buy anyone at all. We have a load of money at the moment, we hold all the cards to get a player to fit the bill. I refuse to accept that a 24/25 year old is unable to hit the ground running and a 27/28 year old can.
We can sign a replacement for Gylfi of excellent quality and experience to hit the ground running with enough resale value to be able to replace him with another £30m player on his departure, do the same when he leaves, then when he leave and so on and so forth.
If this is a one off fee to replace Gylfi then we are resigning ourselves to the fact that Viera is as good as it gets, when he leaves then we are looking to replace him on a budget. I assure you we will not be making a lot of profit off the back of the TV money alone to fund a transfer budget that we currently now have the opportunity to continue to have for a very long time.
Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 13:10 - Jul 17 by E20Jack
I am happy with Pedro as an example of the type of player £21m gets you. Players contracts are running out all the time, it is not a situation unique to Pedro. Whether he would have gone to us is another thing, but it does beg the question why you would be happy to spend £27m on someone we all think is attainable when you also realise that £21m gets a player deemed to have too much quality to even consider joining us doesnt it. Doesnt make sense to me.
If you move the Pedro situation to this summer, he'd cost a lot more than £21m, so the example is facile.
In the summer of 2015, the 24 year old England international fullback Nathaniel Clyne cost Liverpool £12.5m. This summer the 27 year old England international fullback Kyle Walker cost Man City an initial £45m.
Now Walker is probably a better player, was playing for a better club before moving and has more England caps, but he would no way have moved for £45m two years ago.
I think some of your argument has merit, but you're refusing to admit the transfer market has moved on.
You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help.
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