| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid 12:57 - Jul 16 with 101834 views | 34dfgdf54 |
Bid rejected from las palmas apparently.
Siggy replacement and a very good one at that allegedly. |  | | |  |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:31 - Jul 17 with 2079 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:28 - Jul 17 by 34dfgdf54 |
Is E20Jack Jason Levein? |
Clearly not, he seems to have the opposite opinion to me in transfer dealings... and American managerial appointments funnily enough. |  |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:35 - Jul 17 with 2050 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:25 - Jul 17 by Tummer_from_Texas |
And others here, just as ignorantly, are equally convinced that it would destroy the club.
So you seem to make the point there that our scouts might know more about Viera than we do, don't you? [Post edited 17 Jul 2017 9:26]
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Again you miss the point. There is nothing ignorant about being aware of financial implications of wreckless investment.
Whether he is a good player or not is not the issue. A club that generates next to nothing year on year cannot afford to spunk £27m on a player who will be worth very little in a few seasons time.
You answer me then Tummer as nobody else seems to be able to. Where does our money come from in a few seasons time when we need to replace these players and probably a few more. Remember the Gylfi cash has gone on these players with no resale - so where does our money come from? What might our transfer kitty be in order to replace these 5 players? Do you think we will be able to progress or do you think the chances are we will have to replace with far worse?
[Post edited 17 Jul 2017 9:37]
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:36 - Jul 17 with 2041 views | pikeypaul |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:05 - Jul 17 by E20Jack |
Yet we want to spend £30m on him.... |
I think Paul Clement has a little bit more knowledge than you on the player.
And I like the majority of Swans fans would trust his opinion on the
player more than yours.
[Post edited 17 Jul 2017 9:39]
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:39 - Jul 17 with 2029 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:36 - Jul 17 by pikeypaul |
I think Paul Clement has a little bit more knowledge than you on the player.
And I like the majority of Swans fans would trust his opinion on the
player more than yours.
[Post edited 17 Jul 2017 9:39]
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More knowledge than me about what? As I've said many times, whether he is a decent player isn't the point. That would come under Paul Clements expertise and happily concede he will be able to judge a player better than me, but I haven't said he's a bad player and whether he is or not is irrelevant to the point. I have no opinion on the player so put your toys back in your Pram.
I doubt Paul Clement knows more about financials than me. He's a football manager. Signing a player like this is awful for the club off the pitch and I'm shocked that so many seem to want to disregard that for what they perceive as short term aims. Very shortsighted and not the attitude that got the club to where it is today. [Post edited 17 Jul 2017 9:45]
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:45 - Jul 17 with 1994 views | pikeypaul |
So your a football financial expert now are ?
What posistion within the game do you hold?
It's clear to everyone your a BS. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:46 - Jul 17 with 1985 views | Tummer_from_Texas |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:35 - Jul 17 by E20Jack |
Again you miss the point. There is nothing ignorant about being aware of financial implications of wreckless investment.
Whether he is a good player or not is not the issue. A club that generates next to nothing year on year cannot afford to spunk £27m on a player who will be worth very little in a few seasons time.
You answer me then Tummer as nobody else seems to be able to. Where does our money come from in a few seasons time when we need to replace these players and probably a few more. Remember the Gylfi cash has gone on these players with no resale - so where does our money come from? What might our transfer kitty be in order to replace these 5 players? Do you think we will be able to progress or do you think the chances are we will have to replace with far worse?
[Post edited 17 Jul 2017 9:37]
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No, I get the financial implications of spending £26m on a 27 year old versus doing it on a 23 year old. It's not quantum physics or rocket science, and it's been repeated for 9 pages now.
But that doesn't mean it's never worth doing, even for a club like ours. And we're talking about a player we-on this board-know very little about, but we have to assume that's not the case for PC and our scouts. |  |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:49 - Jul 17 with 1972 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:45 - Jul 17 by pikeypaul |
So your a football financial expert now are ?
What posistion within the game do you hold?
It's clear to everyone your a BS. |
I work as a trader, I work in financials every single day.
BS? Which part exactly? That if we spend £27m on a player with no resale value then we can not reinvest that in the squad when he leaves? Surely you don't have to be either Carol Voderman or Bill Shankly to know that do you?
Maybe you can answer the question then?
4 years time, we need to replace 4/5 players (including the 28 year olds of today we will sign for big money) we make nothing from being in the PL so how do we replace these £20-£30m players? With what? And do you think as a result it is natural that we will weaken ourselves.
Answer the above and I will have more of an understanding of where you think this money comes from. [Post edited 17 Jul 2017 9:53]
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:52 - Jul 17 with 1955 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:46 - Jul 17 by Tummer_from_Texas |
No, I get the financial implications of spending £26m on a 27 year old versus doing it on a 23 year old. It's not quantum physics or rocket science, and it's been repeated for 9 pages now.
But that doesn't mean it's never worth doing, even for a club like ours. And we're talking about a player we-on this board-know very little about, but we have to assume that's not the case for PC and our scouts. |
Our scouts have one of the worst track records in the PL. They are criticised yearly on here. They have hardly covered themselves in glory.
Big clubs that generate their own money can spend this kind of money and expect no return, we can't. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:59 - Jul 17 with 1913 views | MagicDaps |
Couple of points:
Firstly, the claim that a 27 year old has no resale value is complete and utter rubbish. You'd have thought he was 33 or 34 with the way some people are talking on here. The reality is we're selling a 27 year old attacking midfielder for £50 million, and signing a replacement of his age in for half of that fee. That's not financially reckless.
Secondly, the claim that our club generates next to no income year on year is also complete and utter rubbish. Because of our Premier League status, we'll have an income of around £150 million this season before player sales. With the sales of Gylfi and Jack Cork factored in, we'll have an income of £200 million. Our Premier League status is vital to our income, and if bringing in a player like Viera can help us to retain that then he'll repay his fee in one season.
If you just watch us in pre season, it's clear that we're going to have a huge problem next season in terms of creativity. The only players in our teams seemingly capable of playing a decent ball are Tom Carroll and Martin Olsson, which just isn't enough for a Premier League team. If we don't bring in a creative player (or two) to replace Gylfi, Llorente isn't going to get any goals and we are going to go down.
We need to bring in the best player we possibly can in that role, regardless of the cost, and I'm shocked at the negativity towards the signing from the same people that would be criticising the owners for not putting there hands in there pockets if we were to bring in a £10 million replacement no better than what we've got. |  |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:08 - Jul 17 with 1864 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:59 - Jul 17 by MagicDaps |
Couple of points:
Firstly, the claim that a 27 year old has no resale value is complete and utter rubbish. You'd have thought he was 33 or 34 with the way some people are talking on here. The reality is we're selling a 27 year old attacking midfielder for £50 million, and signing a replacement of his age in for half of that fee. That's not financially reckless.
Secondly, the claim that our club generates next to no income year on year is also complete and utter rubbish. Because of our Premier League status, we'll have an income of around £150 million this season before player sales. With the sales of Gylfi and Jack Cork factored in, we'll have an income of £200 million. Our Premier League status is vital to our income, and if bringing in a player like Viera can help us to retain that then he'll repay his fee in one season.
If you just watch us in pre season, it's clear that we're going to have a huge problem next season in terms of creativity. The only players in our teams seemingly capable of playing a decent ball are Tom Carroll and Martin Olsson, which just isn't enough for a Premier League team. If we don't bring in a creative player (or two) to replace Gylfi, Llorente isn't going to get any goals and we are going to go down.
We need to bring in the best player we possibly can in that role, regardless of the cost, and I'm shocked at the negativity towards the signing from the same people that would be criticising the owners for not putting there hands in there pockets if we were to bring in a £10 million replacement no better than what we've got. |
Thanks for the points,allow me to respond to them...
I am not claiming a 27 year old has no resale. I am claiming a 27 year old after a few seasons has little resale. Do you think we would be getting £50m for Gylfi aged 31? Try 20% of that. It is absolutely financially wreckless, to suggest otherwise is lunacy.
Can you tell me player sales/purchases aside - how much has our club made year on year? I think you will find it is a pittance and that fact most certainly is not rubbish. We survive on buying sensibly and being able to reinvest that money. Deciding to knock that on the head and kill £30m on the short term is utterly wreckless given the above fact.
Yes I watched us in pre season, certainly missed a creative spark. But nobody has suggested not getting one have they? Everyone realised the need to strengthen. However some are happy to squander the chance of being able to regenerate that money and with it squander the ability to keep signing £30m players for generations to come - and others feel the importance to invest wisely in order to be able to do the above.
There is an abundance of talent right for us for £30m. People are talking as if Jonathan Viera signed for £700k 2 seasons ago is Messi. He is wanted by Newcastle. I am pretty sure there are better, cheaper, wiser signings to be had with the budget we clearly have.
Quite telling also that not a single person has been able to say where our future transfer money is supposed to come from. [Post edited 17 Jul 2017 10:12]
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:14 - Jul 17 with 1831 views | costalotta |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:49 - Jul 17 by E20Jack |
I work as a trader, I work in financials every single day.
BS? Which part exactly? That if we spend £27m on a player with no resale value then we can not reinvest that in the squad when he leaves? Surely you don't have to be either Carol Voderman or Bill Shankly to know that do you?
Maybe you can answer the question then?
4 years time, we need to replace 4/5 players (including the 28 year olds of today we will sign for big money) we make nothing from being in the PL so how do we replace these £20-£30m players? With what? And do you think as a result it is natural that we will weaken ourselves.
Answer the above and I will have more of an understanding of where you think this money comes from. [Post edited 17 Jul 2017 9:53]
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What if he signs, has a great season and we sell him for 40m next summer?
Sounds like to me you have created 1 and only 1 scenario that you are basing your prediction/outcome on? Is that how you trade? I run my own business and if there one thing I do knjow and that is the d rather be trading on Wall Street than wood field street and you my friend seem to me small time and small Mind! |  | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:14 - Jul 17 with 1831 views | E20Jack |
Anyway I've made my point. I'd like to think some of you now realise the implications of a signing like this but would rather save face and stick to your guns.
No point in continuing to go round in circles. The positive news is that we seemingly have baulked at triggering the release fee, so there is a semblance of sense in the boardroom somewhere.
Over and out. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:18 - Jul 17 with 1814 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:14 - Jul 17 by costalotta |
What if he signs, has a great season and we sell him for 40m next summer?
Sounds like to me you have created 1 and only 1 scenario that you are basing your prediction/outcome on? Is that how you trade? I run my own business and if there one thing I do knjow and that is the d rather be trading on Wall Street than wood field street and you my friend seem to me small time and small Mind! |
Oh we have a straggler, I will respond to this one too:-
My God if that is how you run a trading business then that is utterly terrifying. It is about risk to reward. The chances of us moving a player on after one season who will be knocking on 29years old for £40m is far less likely than us wanting to keep our £26m man for a few seasons at least.
Is your company called pie in the sky by any chance? You sound like a Del Boy character, this time next year Rodders... forgive me if i don't want my football club run like Trotters Inc. [Post edited 17 Jul 2017 10:22]
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:22 - Jul 17 with 1784 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:14 - Jul 17 by E20Jack |
Anyway I've made my point. I'd like to think some of you now realise the implications of a signing like this but would rather save face and stick to your guns.
No point in continuing to go round in circles. The positive news is that we seemingly have baulked at triggering the release fee, so there is a semblance of sense in the boardroom somewhere.
Over and out. |
I am no financial expert, like you are allegedly...
But you ask where the money will come from, Are Everton paying us £40 plus million in Monopoly money or something? | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:25 - Jul 17 with 1766 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:22 - Jul 17 by 34dfgdf54 |
I am no financial expert, like you are allegedly...
But you ask where the money will come from, Are Everton paying us £40 plus million in Monopoly money or something? |
Yep that's where THIS money is coming from. My question was in regards to replacing these players we are signing for mega bucks with little resale. Hence the question where do people think we get money from.
So where is the money coming from to replace the likes of Viera? Answer me that. And again remember we make nothing from simply staying in the PL so saying TV money isn't an answer. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:27 - Jul 17 with 1753 views | Loyal |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:25 - Jul 17 by E20Jack |
Yep that's where THIS money is coming from. My question was in regards to replacing these players we are signing for mega bucks with little resale. Hence the question where do people think we get money from.
So where is the money coming from to replace the likes of Viera? Answer me that. And again remember we make nothing from simply staying in the PL so saying TV money isn't an answer. |
I would say we hope the academy produces one or two flowers ?
Don't quote me on that Kilkenny 👠|  |
| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:31 - Jul 17 with 1735 views | costalotta |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:18 - Jul 17 by E20Jack |
Oh we have a straggler, I will respond to this one too:-
My God if that is how you run a trading business then that is utterly terrifying. It is about risk to reward. The chances of us moving a player on after one season who will be knocking on 29years old for £40m is far less likely than us wanting to keep our £26m man for a few seasons at least.
Is your company called pie in the sky by any chance? You sound like a Del Boy character, this time next year Rodders... forgive me if i don't want my football club run like Trotters Inc. [Post edited 17 Jul 2017 10:22]
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Hey . I didn't say I was a trader, in fact I didn't say what my business atria was other than saying I I run my own business.
Can I ask, is that how you assess a trade by not doing your research, reading or understanding what you are commenting on? Your a fugazzi ! | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:32 - Jul 17 with 1725 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:27 - Jul 17 by Loyal |
I would say we hope the academy produces one or two flowers ?
Don't quote me on that Kilkenny 👠|
So we are putting all our hope in staying for competitive in the PL on the off chance of us being able to sell a youth product for big bucks?
Now weigh the chances of that succeeding against signing 24/25 year old class European midfielders instead that we can sell on in a few years time and reinvest in the cycle again.
Which of the above has more chance of being a successful and sustainable way forward? Bear in mind we have had 2 saleable youth products in th last decade which totals about £3m income a season (that doesn't include the cost to run the academy for that decade either). | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:35 - Jul 17 with 1704 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:31 - Jul 17 by costalotta |
Hey . I didn't say I was a trader, in fact I didn't say what my business atria was other than saying I I run my own business.
Can I ask, is that how you assess a trade by not doing your research, reading or understanding what you are commenting on? Your a fugazzi ! |
Well that's a relief for the industry I must say!
You assess a trade based on risk and reward. In 27 year old €30m Jonathan Viera the risk by far outweighs the reward due simply to our financial model. You don't need to be an expert to know that either. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:36 - Jul 17 with 1695 views | MoscowJack |
It seems to me that you're looking at one doomsday scenario, rather than all of the scenarios.
What it looks like to me is that the Swans are looking at the "finished article" to replace Gylfi, not someone just with the potential to. Someone who is at the peak of their game and can deliver from day one, not in one or two seasons. That's most likely to be someone ages 25+.
If, let's say, he does ok (but not as well as Gylfi) then we'll sell him in a year or two for roughly the same money. Even if we lose £5m, it's nothing if we're still in the PL.
If he hits the ground running next season, we'll get £40m or £50m for him.
Where the risk lies is if he fails to deliver here, as he failed at other clubs too. That risk assessment can be applied to almost any player and the risk only gets higher when the price increases or the player's "readiness" (or ability) to perform is in question. As Viera's seemingly at the top of his game, at present, that risk is slightly reduced, isn't it?
I'm not worried about signing a 27 year old for £25m, but I do worry about the years of obscurity between his couple of good seasons for Las Palmas. That's a completely different question, in my opinion, but I'm happy for Clement & Co to rate his chances with us a lot better than any of us can. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:41 - Jul 17 with 1663 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:36 - Jul 17 by MoscowJack |
It seems to me that you're looking at one doomsday scenario, rather than all of the scenarios.
What it looks like to me is that the Swans are looking at the "finished article" to replace Gylfi, not someone just with the potential to. Someone who is at the peak of their game and can deliver from day one, not in one or two seasons. That's most likely to be someone ages 25+.
If, let's say, he does ok (but not as well as Gylfi) then we'll sell him in a year or two for roughly the same money. Even if we lose £5m, it's nothing if we're still in the PL.
If he hits the ground running next season, we'll get £40m or £50m for him.
Where the risk lies is if he fails to deliver here, as he failed at other clubs too. That risk assessment can be applied to almost any player and the risk only gets higher when the price increases or the player's "readiness" (or ability) to perform is in question. As Viera's seemingly at the top of his game, at present, that risk is slightly reduced, isn't it?
I'm not worried about signing a 27 year old for £25m, but I do worry about the years of obscurity between his couple of good seasons for Las Palmas. That's a completely different question, in my opinion, but I'm happy for Clement & Co to rate his chances with us a lot better than any of us can. |
Good post. I'd go along with that.
I have heard good things about him this season, I seem to remember Nirvana saying he would be a good signing at the time we signed Mesa, but I wasn't aware of the years he had at Valencia, Standard Liege etc.
Like you though, I trust Clement with this one.
Go get him Huw. | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:45 - Jul 17 with 1638 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:36 - Jul 17 by MoscowJack |
It seems to me that you're looking at one doomsday scenario, rather than all of the scenarios.
What it looks like to me is that the Swans are looking at the "finished article" to replace Gylfi, not someone just with the potential to. Someone who is at the peak of their game and can deliver from day one, not in one or two seasons. That's most likely to be someone ages 25+.
If, let's say, he does ok (but not as well as Gylfi) then we'll sell him in a year or two for roughly the same money. Even if we lose £5m, it's nothing if we're still in the PL.
If he hits the ground running next season, we'll get £40m or £50m for him.
Where the risk lies is if he fails to deliver here, as he failed at other clubs too. That risk assessment can be applied to almost any player and the risk only gets higher when the price increases or the player's "readiness" (or ability) to perform is in question. As Viera's seemingly at the top of his game, at present, that risk is slightly reduced, isn't it?
I'm not worried about signing a 27 year old for £25m, but I do worry about the years of obscurity between his couple of good seasons for Las Palmas. That's a completely different question, in my opinion, but I'm happy for Clement & Co to rate his chances with us a lot better than any of us can. |
It's not the doomsday scenario at all, it's the overwhelmingly realistic one. Just because it's doesn't end well would be unfair to label it "the doomsday scenario" and assume it has no more chance of becoming reality than a whole host of positive ones because that simply isn't true.
Big clubs buy at their peak, buy the finished article and expect nothing back. We cannot. We do not generate our own excess money. Just because other clubs do something it doesn't mean we can, or indeed should.
There is no more guarantees that Jonathan Viera at 27 can deliver from day 1 than someone like Davy Klaasen aged 24. None. Yet one is a relatively safe investment and the other most certainly is not.
In terms of the players ability, which isn't really the question at hand by the way, his history looks sketchy and most certainly not what you would usually describe as the finished article. He may well be very good but that doesn't excuse or resolve the fact that when he goes then we are stuck with little options and little funds. It's too short term for a club like us. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:56 - Jul 17 with 1581 views | icecoldjack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:49 - Jul 17 by E20Jack |
I work as a trader, I work in financials every single day.
BS? Which part exactly? That if we spend £27m on a player with no resale value then we can not reinvest that in the squad when he leaves? Surely you don't have to be either Carol Voderman or Bill Shankly to know that do you?
Maybe you can answer the question then?
4 years time, we need to replace 4/5 players (including the 28 year olds of today we will sign for big money) we make nothing from being in the PL so how do we replace these £20-£30m players? With what? And do you think as a result it is natural that we will weaken ourselves.
Answer the above and I will have more of an understanding of where you think this money comes from. [Post edited 17 Jul 2017 9:53]
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All fair points but at the same time there really isn't much point in trying to think too far into the future as a slip into the championship will really fook the club up!
Sometimes you need to be brave in the transfer market, personally i'm not sure about this player as he has failed at Rayo,Valencia and that European giant Standard liege !
Consider that pozuelo is doing decent at FC Genk and it doesn't inspire me this boy is worth the money.
Clement is a better judge than myself though and it all depends on how we going to play i suppose . |  | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 10:58 - Jul 17 with 1576 views | Kerouac |
I thought signing this bloke would be a good idea...he is the type of player we need and has a good footballing relationship with Mesa.
However, I must agree with E20 on the model we need to follow and in that context the price for Viera is too much....I don't want to pay 25 million Euros for him nevermind 30!
When I said we should sign this player I was thinking in the region of £10-15m (12-17.5 million Euros).
I want to use the Siggy money to get at least 3 quality 1st team players (for around £40m...bank the extra £10m) and make room for their wages by shipping out more dead wood...there is plenty of it.
If we spend £25-30m on one 27 year old who flops we are in deep shite.
The club should have at least 20 potential signings earmarked for each position and they should be closely monitored.
In the scenario we find ourselves in now at the top of that shortlist should be the quality players in Europe who are near the end of their contract....ideally 23-28years old...costing £10-15m.
Good value.
Losing Siggy will hurt us in the short term but we must take this opportunity to invest in the overall quality of our squad. |  |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 11:07 - Jul 17 with 1537 views | Dyfnant |
Valencia have been a shambles for years, don't assign any blame for 'failing' there.
Also the mooted fee/buy out clause is €30M not £,
Think PC has the right to be trusted with HIS judgement, not as if we'd be signing this guy if Siggy wasn't going. |  |
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