| Does Brexit die tonight? 11:59 - Sep 3 with 35997 views | westwalesed |
When this bill passes, which I expect it to, my understanding is that the EU theoretically can propose a different extension to the proposed January 31st, 2020 date currently in the bill.
The bill states that the PM has to accept that date, and that Parliament has two days to either accept or reject it (thereby putting any future extension date in the hands of Parliament as opposed to the PM). Given that we have a remain leaning parliament currently it's hard tp see how any proposed date would be rejected.
PM Johnson would then seek an election as he has stated, but now that it is looking as if the opposition parties may not get to the two-thirds of MPs required to trigger it, there will be no election at all. What then?
With a Govt that has to accept any date given and Parliament refusing to give him an opportunity to change the make up of the Commons, is this the day that Brexit dies?
Is it revoking A50 by the back door? |  |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 14:32 - Sep 6 with 1649 views | Jango |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:44 - Sep 6 by sherpajacob |
The opposition parties are perfectly happy having a GE after 31 October.
Ask yourself why Johnson now wants one before 31/10, but not after.
Johnson said only a few days ago, he doesn't want a GE and neither do the people. For him it's Brexit on 31/10 "do or die", why on earth would opposition parties help him do.?
If the government want to end the stalemate, another referendum would do that better than a GE which would more than likely produce another hung parliament. Johnson says negotiations are progressing with the EU, so he could put what he's agreed with the EU to the people,......arf
The majority of the HoC simply don't trust Johnson, do you?
Edit.
Johnson now insisting he will get a deal, I wonder what that will look like, considering no new negotiations have yet taken place. [Post edited 6 Sep 2019 13:07]
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Do you genuinely believe the current parliament would accept the result of another referendum? Have a day off.
The Lib Dem leader has said she wouldn’t accept the result of it was leave. The leader of the greens have done the same and the SNP have refused to accept the result of the last 2 referendums it’s been involved in.
Have a GE and let’s see what parliament is looking like after that. I’m sure if parliament can pass a bill that allows them to take control of the government then they can pass a bill that ensures the GE definitely takes place on the 15th. They don’t want one because they won’t win. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 15:02 - Sep 6 with 1616 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 14:32 - Sep 6 by Jango |
Do you genuinely believe the current parliament would accept the result of another referendum? Have a day off.
The Lib Dem leader has said she wouldn’t accept the result of it was leave. The leader of the greens have done the same and the SNP have refused to accept the result of the last 2 referendums it’s been involved in.
Have a GE and let’s see what parliament is looking like after that. I’m sure if parliament can pass a bill that allows them to take control of the government then they can pass a bill that ensures the GE definitely takes place on the 15th. They don’t want one because they won’t win. |
They can’t prevent Johnson changing the date once parliament is suspended Jango, and they don’t trust him.
Plus, if he gets a deal (which he is claiming he’s going to do - and now he has no majority, that deal will be leaving NI in the backstop rather than the UK, I suspect) there simply isn’t time to pass the legislation for that deal before 31st. So we end up with a no deal.
This is all about stopping a no deal by a PM they don’t trust.
If the date is moved to end January, they’ll have an election in November and the electorate will decide rather than Johnson decide.
Don’t forget he’s also saying he’ll refuse to ask for an extension, so they have to bring him down the ‘other way’ to allow a temporary PM if necessary to get the extension.
We’ll have an election or a referendum decision before the end of November. We have to have something to move on.
As for the ‘they won’t win’. Who knows. I think we’ll end up with another hung parliament to be honest. Which way it will hang (as it were) is anyone’s guess. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 15:49 - Sep 6 with 1575 views | WarwickHunt |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 14:32 - Sep 6 by Jango |
Do you genuinely believe the current parliament would accept the result of another referendum? Have a day off.
The Lib Dem leader has said she wouldn’t accept the result of it was leave. The leader of the greens have done the same and the SNP have refused to accept the result of the last 2 referendums it’s been involved in.
Have a GE and let’s see what parliament is looking like after that. I’m sure if parliament can pass a bill that allows them to take control of the government then they can pass a bill that ensures the GE definitely takes place on the 15th. They don’t want one because they won’t win. |
You. Massive. Fûcking. Dullard.  |  | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:09 - Sep 6 with 1551 views | monmouth |
For someone who definitely doesn't want an election, and definitely hasn't started campaigning by upsetting and irritating everyone everywhere he goes, Johnson seems remarkably agitated by not getting what he doesn't want.
Also everyone has made a massive mistake by not giving him what he doesn't want. he was just thinking of them all along, bless his little bus festooned cotton socks. |  |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:16 - Sep 6 with 1537 views | Ace_Jack |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 14:25 - Sep 6 by Highjack |
If labour/libs/chuk/snp win they could form a loose coalition government, they could extend, call a referendum or revoke to their hearts content.
They are running away from an election because they don’t think they can win.
There can be no other reason not to have one. |
There is going to be an election, just not at the choosing of Boris Johnson |  | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:30 - Sep 6 with 1518 views | Uxbridge |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 14:25 - Sep 6 by Highjack |
If labour/libs/chuk/snp win they could form a loose coalition government, they could extend, call a referendum or revoke to their hearts content.
They are running away from an election because they don’t think they can win.
There can be no other reason not to have one. |
There's a good reason to delay it for a month. It would compel Johnson to actually try and get a deal, rather than pretend it's actually an option, which he absolutely would argue he would if it was still theoretically an option.
Johnson running on a No Deal GE ticket is unlikely to win a majority IMO. A lot will depend on the Farage's russian funded mob of course, and whether the Remain backing parties actually work together rather than just talking about it. |  |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:59 - Sep 6 with 1489 views | Highjack |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 15:02 - Sep 6 by londonlisa2001 |
They can’t prevent Johnson changing the date once parliament is suspended Jango, and they don’t trust him.
Plus, if he gets a deal (which he is claiming he’s going to do - and now he has no majority, that deal will be leaving NI in the backstop rather than the UK, I suspect) there simply isn’t time to pass the legislation for that deal before 31st. So we end up with a no deal.
This is all about stopping a no deal by a PM they don’t trust.
If the date is moved to end January, they’ll have an election in November and the electorate will decide rather than Johnson decide.
Don’t forget he’s also saying he’ll refuse to ask for an extension, so they have to bring him down the ‘other way’ to allow a temporary PM if necessary to get the extension.
We’ll have an election or a referendum decision before the end of November. We have to have something to move on.
As for the ‘they won’t win’. Who knows. I think we’ll end up with another hung parliament to be honest. Which way it will hang (as it were) is anyone’s guess. |
If brexit is going to be as bad as the remain lobby has been blathering on about for three years then surely nobody will vote for Boris as we’ll all be starving and freezing to death dying of small pox with our arms rotting off. It would be a clear and easy win for Corbyn/Swanson in those circumstances. |  |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 18:00 - Sep 6 with 1457 views | Catullus |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 13:18 - Sep 6 by londonlisa2001 |
Actually calling a GE is trying to give the choice back in a way that Cummings thinks they can finesse due to an alliance with the brexit party and the FPTP system we have. A referendum is fairer.
But I agree we need one of the two, and a GE is better than nothing. And we will have one. Just not at the date Johnson chooses. Parties have always had GEs at the time it suits them, and Labour and the others have the whip hand, so they will do the same. One of the reasons for October 15 it seems was an issue with being able to get students registered in time thus reducing their vote. We all know students are more likely to vote for someone other than Johnson, so why would the others go along with that? And delaying him to a point where he has to get an extension hurts him. It’s all a game, but it’s no different to the game played every single election there has ever been.
Corbyn is being controlled now by people brighter than him. Thank God for that. About time. |
On their own terms you say, well yes I couldn't disagree. However, we have been told for ages that millions have changed their minds, well millions of leavers. Apparently all the polls show leavers changing minds, I see this claimed very often.
If it's true that remain is now by far the preferred option then why not have the GE and get it over with? Corbyn could have stood and told Boris, publicly promise you won't change the date and we'll back the election. Would Boris dare make that pledge on tv, in Parliament and then break it? Maybe, but surely he isn't that stupid? The jury could be out a while.
To be honest I am long past arguing the merits of either side, I just want it over (one way or the other) and a GE will sort it out.
To many leavers what is happening isn't about getting a deal but purely about stopping brexit altogether. I think voters will take whichever side they really believe in because people generally are entirely out of faith with politics. It all comes down to leave or remain and if the GE was fought on that it will end the argument.
There is one complete truth in all this, if Boris Johnson is the best choice then UK politics is even more screwed than anyone realised. If Corbyn can't beat Johnson (without some kind of inter party agreement) then he should resign immediately on learning the result and take his front bench with him.
It is time to tear up the whole book and re-write it. A proper written constitution with strict rules on behaviour and MP's who break the law should be automatically dethroned. | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:51 - Sep 6 with 1401 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 18:00 - Sep 6 by Catullus |
On their own terms you say, well yes I couldn't disagree. However, we have been told for ages that millions have changed their minds, well millions of leavers. Apparently all the polls show leavers changing minds, I see this claimed very often.
If it's true that remain is now by far the preferred option then why not have the GE and get it over with? Corbyn could have stood and told Boris, publicly promise you won't change the date and we'll back the election. Would Boris dare make that pledge on tv, in Parliament and then break it? Maybe, but surely he isn't that stupid? The jury could be out a while.
To be honest I am long past arguing the merits of either side, I just want it over (one way or the other) and a GE will sort it out.
To many leavers what is happening isn't about getting a deal but purely about stopping brexit altogether. I think voters will take whichever side they really believe in because people generally are entirely out of faith with politics. It all comes down to leave or remain and if the GE was fought on that it will end the argument.
There is one complete truth in all this, if Boris Johnson is the best choice then UK politics is even more screwed than anyone realised. If Corbyn can't beat Johnson (without some kind of inter party agreement) then he should resign immediately on learning the result and take his front bench with him.
It is time to tear up the whole book and re-write it. A proper written constitution with strict rules on behaviour and MP's who break the law should be automatically dethroned. |
An election is unlikely to solve anything much. |  |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 21:47 - Sep 6 with 1377 views | Catullus |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:51 - Sep 6 by exiledclaseboy |
An election is unlikely to solve anything much. |
It might not, but with Boris liable to install leave MP's to stand in the seats of those he withdrew the whip from, if he should get a majority it would solve it. He could change the new brexit law and push through a no deal exit.
Or it could go the other way and we end up remaining. With other parties liable to come to agreements on where to (or not to) stand a candidate, it might just break the impasse.
Something needs to happen though, we are all fed up of this self imposed limbo that is definitely doing huge damage to our country.
We need to start repairing the fractures before they get too wide. This could still lead to the break up of the UK though to be honest, I think it's time we had the debates and had referenda on independence for NI, Scotland and us. If NI voted to leave it would solve the backstop problem! | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 21:49 - Sep 6 with 1373 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 21:47 - Sep 6 by Catullus |
It might not, but with Boris liable to install leave MP's to stand in the seats of those he withdrew the whip from, if he should get a majority it would solve it. He could change the new brexit law and push through a no deal exit.
Or it could go the other way and we end up remaining. With other parties liable to come to agreements on where to (or not to) stand a candidate, it might just break the impasse.
Something needs to happen though, we are all fed up of this self imposed limbo that is definitely doing huge damage to our country.
We need to start repairing the fractures before they get too wide. This could still lead to the break up of the UK though to be honest, I think it's time we had the debates and had referenda on independence for NI, Scotland and us. If NI voted to leave it would solve the backstop problem! |
Unfortunately a no deal Brexit will lead to years more of this. It’s the start not the end. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 21:51 - Sep 6 with 1369 views | Flashberryjack |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:51 - Sep 6 by exiledclaseboy |
An election is unlikely to solve anything much. |
I think you'd be surprised, at least Boris seems to be bringing brexit to a head, instead of the festering mess it's been for the last 3 years. |  |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 21:53 - Sep 6 with 1364 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 21:47 - Sep 6 by Catullus |
It might not, but with Boris liable to install leave MP's to stand in the seats of those he withdrew the whip from, if he should get a majority it would solve it. He could change the new brexit law and push through a no deal exit.
Or it could go the other way and we end up remaining. With other parties liable to come to agreements on where to (or not to) stand a candidate, it might just break the impasse.
Something needs to happen though, we are all fed up of this self imposed limbo that is definitely doing huge damage to our country.
We need to start repairing the fractures before they get too wide. This could still lead to the break up of the UK though to be honest, I think it's time we had the debates and had referenda on independence for NI, Scotland and us. If NI voted to leave it would solve the backstop problem! |
We won’t remain without another referendum. That will need a labour majority or a labour led coalition. We won’t leave with no deal unless the Tories stand on a no deal platform and win a majority.
The cleanest way to take the public’s view on leaving three years on is a referendum. | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 22:01 - Sep 6 with 1360 views | Catullus |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 21:49 - Sep 6 by londonlisa2001 |
Unfortunately a no deal Brexit will lead to years more of this. It’s the start not the end. |
Nobody can be 100% certain if we are better off leaving or remaining, noine of us can see the future that clearly. I accept there will be pain but it might be short term and we go on to prosper. Remaining doesn't guarantee anything either with the membership rules changing, the deal we have now will not be the same deal in 2/3 years. Many of the problems people blame on brexit are actually because of the ongoing USA-China trade war, Trump is.....unpredictable, a cowboy.....being polite.
Regardless, whatever happens, whether we leave or remain once it's done, it's done and we have to stop arguing about it and move on. Far too many of the UK's internal problems are not being dealt with because we are a stuck record....brexit, brexit, brexit, brexit...it's time to change the record. | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 22:09 - Sep 6 with 1355 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 21:47 - Sep 6 by Catullus |
It might not, but with Boris liable to install leave MP's to stand in the seats of those he withdrew the whip from, if he should get a majority it would solve it. He could change the new brexit law and push through a no deal exit.
Or it could go the other way and we end up remaining. With other parties liable to come to agreements on where to (or not to) stand a candidate, it might just break the impasse.
Something needs to happen though, we are all fed up of this self imposed limbo that is definitely doing huge damage to our country.
We need to start repairing the fractures before they get too wide. This could still lead to the break up of the UK though to be honest, I think it's time we had the debates and had referenda on independence for NI, Scotland and us. If NI voted to leave it would solve the backstop problem! |
Boris now has to save face.
He said today he will now do a deal (and hit end October).
Only way he can do that is .....to accept the backstop (that the uk asked for).
The DUP will explode and the Maybot deal - plus some fluffy words - goes through.
Then we can rejoin again in about 5 years ... 🇪🇺🇪🇺✌🾠|  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 22:13 - Sep 6 with 1348 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 22:09 - Sep 6 by Kilkennyjack |
Boris now has to save face.
He said today he will now do a deal (and hit end October).
Only way he can do that is .....to accept the backstop (that the uk asked for).
The DUP will explode and the Maybot deal - plus some fluffy words - goes through.
Then we can rejoin again in about 5 years ... 🇪🇺🇪🇺✌🾠|
He can’t do a deal and get the necessary legislation through by 31 October. So in the massively unlikely event that he gets a deal that’s acceptable to parliament there’ll have to be some kind of extension regardless. | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 22:28 - Sep 6 with 1332 views | Catullus |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 22:09 - Sep 6 by Kilkennyjack |
Boris now has to save face.
He said today he will now do a deal (and hit end October).
Only way he can do that is .....to accept the backstop (that the uk asked for).
The DUP will explode and the Maybot deal - plus some fluffy words - goes through.
Then we can rejoin again in about 5 years ... 🇪🇺🇪🇺✌🾠|
It doesn't matter if Boris accepts the backstop because parliament has refused that deal 3 times.
That's the massive issue. The EU say the deal on offer is the only deal we'll get, Parliament says no to it.
As I have asked elsewhere, just what are our options? A GE or a referendum are about the only two options. The EU wants another referendum in the hope we will change our minds. I don't think Boris can save face anyway, not unless he comes up with a genuine alternative to the backstop which the EU accepts, what are the odds?
Boris has been well and truly b/tchslapped, if there was a decent Labour leader in place Boris would be out of a job very soon. | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 22:33 - Sep 6 with 1329 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 22:13 - Sep 6 by exiledclaseboy |
He can’t do a deal and get the necessary legislation through by 31 October. So in the massively unlikely event that he gets a deal that’s acceptable to parliament there’ll have to be some kind of extension regardless. |
You need to think more positively to get Brexshite through .. 😂
All about personality, not facts.
Don't do ur country down, mun ...
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😂🇪🇺😎🇪🇺 | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 23:13 - Sep 6 with 1297 views | sherpajacob |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 22:09 - Sep 6 by Kilkennyjack |
Boris now has to save face.
He said today he will now do a deal (and hit end October).
Only way he can do that is .....to accept the backstop (that the uk asked for).
The DUP will explode and the Maybot deal - plus some fluffy words - goes through.
Then we can rejoin again in about 5 years ... 🇪🇺🇪🇺✌🾠|
Custom union membership would be acceptable to the EU and the Labour party, would enough Tories and ex Tories vote for it?
It was the sensible choice from the beginning, before Mays red lines.
Still not as good as our current EU deal of course. |  |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 23:19 - Sep 6 with 1285 views | sherpajacob |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 22:01 - Sep 6 by Catullus |
Nobody can be 100% certain if we are better off leaving or remaining, noine of us can see the future that clearly. I accept there will be pain but it might be short term and we go on to prosper. Remaining doesn't guarantee anything either with the membership rules changing, the deal we have now will not be the same deal in 2/3 years. Many of the problems people blame on brexit are actually because of the ongoing USA-China trade war, Trump is.....unpredictable, a cowboy.....being polite.
Regardless, whatever happens, whether we leave or remain once it's done, it's done and we have to stop arguing about it and move on. Far too many of the UK's internal problems are not being dealt with because we are a stuck record....brexit, brexit, brexit, brexit...it's time to change the record. |
Making a good case for revoke there. | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 23:37 - Sep 6 with 1271 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 22:01 - Sep 6 by Catullus |
Nobody can be 100% certain if we are better off leaving or remaining, noine of us can see the future that clearly. I accept there will be pain but it might be short term and we go on to prosper. Remaining doesn't guarantee anything either with the membership rules changing, the deal we have now will not be the same deal in 2/3 years. Many of the problems people blame on brexit are actually because of the ongoing USA-China trade war, Trump is.....unpredictable, a cowboy.....being polite.
Regardless, whatever happens, whether we leave or remain once it's done, it's done and we have to stop arguing about it and move on. Far too many of the UK's internal problems are not being dealt with because we are a stuck record....brexit, brexit, brexit, brexit...it's time to change the record. |
Nothing to do with that. A no deal Brexit means we spend the next decade negotiating trade deals.
It will be the focus for years and years.
It’s the least clean break we can have.
And they do know btw - it’s why they won’t publish the reports. And the deal we have now can’t be changed. We have a veto, | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 23:43 - Sep 6 with 1265 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 22:28 - Sep 6 by Catullus |
It doesn't matter if Boris accepts the backstop because parliament has refused that deal 3 times.
That's the massive issue. The EU say the deal on offer is the only deal we'll get, Parliament says no to it.
As I have asked elsewhere, just what are our options? A GE or a referendum are about the only two options. The EU wants another referendum in the hope we will change our minds. I don't think Boris can save face anyway, not unless he comes up with a genuine alternative to the backstop which the EU accepts, what are the odds?
Boris has been well and truly b/tchslapped, if there was a decent Labour leader in place Boris would be out of a job very soon. |
We could easily get a different deal.
The deal we have is the only deal we can get with the red lines in place.
We could easily get a deal with a customs union, single market etc etc. Labour would vote for it. Shove a referendum on it and it’s easy.
We haven’t the time though. And he won’t. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 00:12 - Sep 7 with 1239 views | sherpajacob |
Speculation now that Johnson could still get no deal through one of two ways. notwithstanding he says he wants a deal.
He can request an extension as parliament requires, but.
- He refuses to nominate a Uk commissioner to the EU, so according to EU rules they kick us out.
- He gets Orban to veto the extension.
Both of the above seem too ridiculous to contemplate, yet with Johnson and Cummings in tandem, you can't rule them out. | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 07:04 - Sep 7 with 1184 views | wobbly |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 00:12 - Sep 7 by sherpajacob |
Speculation now that Johnson could still get no deal through one of two ways. notwithstanding he says he wants a deal.
He can request an extension as parliament requires, but.
- He refuses to nominate a Uk commissioner to the EU, so according to EU rules they kick us out.
- He gets Orban to veto the extension.
Both of the above seem too ridiculous to contemplate, yet with Johnson and Cummings in tandem, you can't rule them out. |
Following the suspension of the whip of 21 MPs, putting the Conservative party Into a huge minority, and with Parliament demonstrating effectively last week that Boris doesn’t command the house, is there a possibility that Boris just resigns the PM and the Queen asks JC to form a government? |  | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 07:29 - Sep 7 with 1167 views | majorraglan |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 07:04 - Sep 7 by wobbly |
Following the suspension of the whip of 21 MPs, putting the Conservative party Into a huge minority, and with Parliament demonstrating effectively last week that Boris doesn’t command the house, is there a possibility that Boris just resigns the PM and the Queen asks JC to form a government? |
I can’t see this happening. The 21 without the whip would still hold Conservative vales and beliefs and the only area they would disagree on would be Brexit. Some of the 21 are even talking about standing in their current constituencies as independent candidates, so they will be sticking to their core principles.
Boris expelling the 21 could backfire because if they stand as independents it could split the Tory vote 3 ways, Brexit Party, sitting MP standing independently and Tory. Not sure he’s thought about that. | | | |
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