| Tohack 10:56 - Mar 18 with 5951 views | Badlands |
Doing better than I expected ... ad giving Swans some praise.
The local Cyprus paper certainly concurs. When Toshack took over in December, Pafos were described as a team with 'no start, no middle and no end'. Now, after a run of five wins and 15 goals in seven games, they are 'the apotheosis of creation'. Or in blunter terms, playing attractive, attacking football.
'It's based on the old Swansea core principle of possession football,' explains Toshack,
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8123739/Cameron-Toshack-left-
Would you have him back? |  |
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| Tohack on 09:44 - Mar 19 with 1336 views | ladyjack |
| Tohack on 00:15 - Mar 19 by TimTtam |
Managing isn't about the squad you have. Heck, I could manage Man City and they would still finish in the top 4. It's about how you can best utilise the players you have and implement a successful game style. Pafos weren't doing too well, Toshack turned up and they lost a few more, but now they've turned it around in a big way. The ability to stop a winless run and instead go on an unbeaten run is underrated. |
By that logic you can take any manager from any league including grassroots parks football, Pafos are playing in the relegation play offs and in their last match they lost 2-0 to the team that is rock bottom of the league that had previously only won 2 league games.
Pafos played Brentford B team at home about a fortnight ago Nemec played, goodness knows who played for Brentford B team as it is mid season over here, Brentford B team beat Pafos 6 - 0 [Post edited 19 Mar 2020 9:46]
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| Tohack on 10:04 - Mar 19 with 1316 views | jasper_T |
| Tohack on 09:25 - Mar 19 by ladyjack |
Rubbish those three are all well into their 30's. |
And could demolish Welsh Prem sides with their eyes closed. |  | | |
| Tohack on 10:05 - Mar 19 with 1309 views | glanmORJa_k |
| Tohack on 07:35 - Mar 19 by Kilkennyjack |
Well ..... the flip is that when they had a 6 game winless run then Toshack took all the flack and responsibility. Nobody mentioned Richards then.
I guess they feel comfortable as a pair ?
Hi Waggy 👋🿠.....😂.... and don't forget the sun block mate .... 🇨🇾 â˜€ï¸ |
Do you go to Landore to watch the U23's or do you just give your opinion from what you gather from the media? | | | |
| Tohack on 10:13 - Mar 19 with 1298 views | jasper_T |
| Tohack on 09:44 - Mar 19 by ladyjack |
By that logic you can take any manager from any league including grassroots parks football, Pafos are playing in the relegation play offs and in their last match they lost 2-0 to the team that is rock bottom of the league that had previously only won 2 league games.
Pafos played Brentford B team at home about a fortnight ago Nemec played, goodness knows who played for Brentford B team as it is mid season over here, Brentford B team beat Pafos 6 - 0 [Post edited 19 Mar 2020 9:46]
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They did lose their last game but beat that same team 4-0 the game before. Pafos' points tally since Toshack and Richards took over is very impressive given the situation when they arrived, even if it wasn't quite enough to escape the bottom half and relegation playoffs.
Brentford B have Joe Adams, and our own Nathan Shepperd in goal. Good side they've assembled there, part of their impressive production line. Pafos effectively played their reserves including a trialist. | | | |
| Tohack on 10:24 - Mar 19 with 1282 views | ladyjack |
| Tohack on 10:13 - Mar 19 by jasper_T |
They did lose their last game but beat that same team 4-0 the game before. Pafos' points tally since Toshack and Richards took over is very impressive given the situation when they arrived, even if it wasn't quite enough to escape the bottom half and relegation playoffs.
Brentford B have Joe Adams, and our own Nathan Shepperd in goal. Good side they've assembled there, part of their impressive production line. Pafos effectively played their reserves including a trialist. |
You don't know who Pafos reserves are ?, they played Nemec we know Brentford B team are Brentford B team and it was 6-0 to the young Bees.
The Cypriot league has never been strong but I admit their best teams have improved and are a handful at home these days, Pafos at this stage would not be one of their best teams, but they seem to have money so watch this space, Cardiff City beat a Cypriot team 8-0 in European competition back in the day.
To go from manager of an unheard of little mid table Cypriot team to manager of Championship Swansea would be a no for me, he would need to take another step up the ladder before Swansea. | | | |
| Tohack on 11:48 - Mar 19 with 1266 views | jasper_T |
| Tohack on 10:24 - Mar 19 by ladyjack |
You don't know who Pafos reserves are ?, they played Nemec we know Brentford B team are Brentford B team and it was 6-0 to the young Bees.
The Cypriot league has never been strong but I admit their best teams have improved and are a handful at home these days, Pafos at this stage would not be one of their best teams, but they seem to have money so watch this space, Cardiff City beat a Cypriot team 8-0 in European competition back in the day.
To go from manager of an unheard of little mid table Cypriot team to manager of Championship Swansea would be a no for me, he would need to take another step up the ladder before Swansea. |
The second string against Brentford B:
Petrou, Antoniou. Andreas, Theodosiou, Trialist, Goddard, Manromatis, Olivero, Angulo, Nemec, Rakels
Subs: Gergiou, Zanonos, Urituos, Paulon, Ali, Reynolds, Jovanovic
The first team side that beat APOEL in February:
Rudko, Cabral, Sirok, Lafrance, Valakari, Panos, Arajuuri, Valerianos, Va, Besara, Berigaud
Subs used: Nemec, Folprecht, Rakels | | | |
| Tohack on 11:54 - Mar 19 with 1249 views | ladyjack |
No Puncheon and Williams then ? | | | |
| Tohack on 12:28 - Mar 19 with 1232 views | jasper_T |
| Tohack on 11:54 - Mar 19 by ladyjack |
No Puncheon and Williams then ? |
Unused subs on the day.
edit: Williams was. No Puncheon at all. [Post edited 19 Mar 2020 12:29]
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| Tohack on 13:51 - Mar 19 with 1210 views | TimTtam |
| Tohack on 09:44 - Mar 19 by ladyjack |
By that logic you can take any manager from any league including grassroots parks football, Pafos are playing in the relegation play offs and in their last match they lost 2-0 to the team that is rock bottom of the league that had previously only won 2 league games.
Pafos played Brentford B team at home about a fortnight ago Nemec played, goodness knows who played for Brentford B team as it is mid season over here, Brentford B team beat Pafos 6 - 0 [Post edited 19 Mar 2020 9:46]
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Yes. At the highest level as a manager you arguably have to do less work because you have more staff and better quality players with a game sense. In the lower leagues you actually have to develop and coach your players, often with barely any budget.
Put Gareth Ainsworth (who has low-budget Wycombe contending for automatic promotion in L1) as manager of Man City and Pep in charge of Wycombe, and I don't think we'd see much difference. Higher league managers are overrated and lower league managers underrated in my opinion.
Toshack just needs first team senior managerial experience. It doesn't matter what the league is. His arrival has lead to his team playing better. Potter went to the Swedish 4th division, and even after 3 promotions the 1st division isn't that tough of a league. But he got experience, and 2 years after leaving Ostursunds he began managing in the PL. |  |
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| Tohack on 14:07 - Mar 19 with 1193 views | ladyjack |
| Tohack on 13:51 - Mar 19 by TimTtam |
Yes. At the highest level as a manager you arguably have to do less work because you have more staff and better quality players with a game sense. In the lower leagues you actually have to develop and coach your players, often with barely any budget.
Put Gareth Ainsworth (who has low-budget Wycombe contending for automatic promotion in L1) as manager of Man City and Pep in charge of Wycombe, and I don't think we'd see much difference. Higher league managers are overrated and lower league managers underrated in my opinion.
Toshack just needs first team senior managerial experience. It doesn't matter what the league is. His arrival has lead to his team playing better. Potter went to the Swedish 4th division, and even after 3 promotions the 1st division isn't that tough of a league. But he got experience, and 2 years after leaving Ostursunds he began managing in the PL. |
I remember a Swedish team in the European Cup final and didn't Potter's Swedish side beat Arsenal in one of the legs.
Pep commands respect of star players and they will do what he says and play for him that might not be the case for all other managers. | | | |
| Tohack on 14:21 - Mar 19 with 1181 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Tohack on 10:04 - Mar 19 by jasper_T |
And could demolish Welsh Prem sides with their eyes closed. |
So some facts ..,
In 2016 this was put to the test with TNS vs APOEL in European cup.
First leg 0-0 @ TNS.
Not quite a demolition.
Second leg 3-0 APOEL.
Last goal at 90 +4 mins.
Not quite a demolition.
Now APOEL are accepted as the best Cypriot club.
TNS the best in cymru league over the years.
No - not such a big gap. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Tohack on 14:32 - Mar 19 with 1179 views | TimTtam |
| Tohack on 14:07 - Mar 19 by ladyjack |
I remember a Swedish team in the European Cup final and didn't Potter's Swedish side beat Arsenal in one of the legs.
Pep commands respect of star players and they will do what he says and play for him that might not be the case for all other managers. |
Ostursunds qualified for the Europa League, made it past the group stages, lost 0-3 at home to Arsenal, but beat them 2-1 in the away leg. 2-4 aggregate loss.
Interestingly, looking at Pep's managerial career, he started by managing the Barcelona B team. In his first and only season, he guided the team to the promotion playoffs, which they won. Didn't our U23s win the Premier League Cup under Toshack, while also winning the 2nd division title? Every manager has to start somewhere and somehow. | |
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| Tohack on 14:37 - Mar 19 with 1169 views | ladyjack |
| Tohack on 14:32 - Mar 19 by TimTtam |
Ostursunds qualified for the Europa League, made it past the group stages, lost 0-3 at home to Arsenal, but beat them 2-1 in the away leg. 2-4 aggregate loss.
Interestingly, looking at Pep's managerial career, he started by managing the Barcelona B team. In his first and only season, he guided the team to the promotion playoffs, which they won. Didn't our U23s win the Premier League Cup under Toshack, while also winning the 2nd division title? Every manager has to start somewhere and somehow. |
Yes but most that get the big jobs have either had a stellar playing career, or been successful number 2s or worked their way up, it might not be unheard but it would be very unusual for somebody to make such a big jump. | | | |
| Tohack on 14:42 - Mar 19 with 1168 views | TimTtam |
| Tohack on 14:37 - Mar 19 by ladyjack |
Yes but most that get the big jobs have either had a stellar playing career, or been successful number 2s or worked their way up, it might not be unheard but it would be very unusual for somebody to make such a big jump. |
Well, you say most of the big jobs to go players who have "worked their way up". Toshack started as the Swansea U23s manager, and has now joined Pafos and became the first team manager. That seems like working his way up to me. I'm not saying he's going to jump straight into a PL team as manager, but in 1-2 years he could find his way back to Swansea to mange the first team (if we're still in the Championship as I expect). [Post edited 19 Mar 2020 14:42]
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| Tohack on 15:01 - Mar 19 with 1158 views | ladyjack |
| Tohack on 14:42 - Mar 19 by TimTtam |
Well, you say most of the big jobs to go players who have "worked their way up". Toshack started as the Swansea U23s manager, and has now joined Pafos and became the first team manager. That seems like working his way up to me. I'm not saying he's going to jump straight into a PL team as manager, but in 1-2 years he could find his way back to Swansea to mange the first team (if we're still in the Championship as I expect). [Post edited 19 Mar 2020 14:42]
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Because of his Swansea connection that would be possible, might not be likely but possible, to go to a top Championship team other than Swansea from having a first taste of being a senior manager with a mid table Cypriot team to then getting the managers job with a good Championship team with that kind of CV would be unlikely.
He would need to get into Europe and beat a top Premiership team or win the Cypriot league and perform creditably in qualifying for the Champions League, but mid table in Cyprus to go straight to managing a top Championship team would be very unlikely. | | | |
| Tohack on 15:07 - Mar 19 with 1153 views | jasper_T |
| Tohack on 14:42 - Mar 19 by TimTtam |
Well, you say most of the big jobs to go players who have "worked their way up". Toshack started as the Swansea U23s manager, and has now joined Pafos and became the first team manager. That seems like working his way up to me. I'm not saying he's going to jump straight into a PL team as manager, but in 1-2 years he could find his way back to Swansea to mange the first team (if we're still in the Championship as I expect). [Post edited 19 Mar 2020 14:42]
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Toshack was with our u18s before stepping up to u21s/u23s. | | | |
| Tohack on 15:11 - Mar 19 with 1144 views | jasper_T |
| Tohack on 14:37 - Mar 19 by ladyjack |
Yes but most that get the big jobs have either had a stellar playing career, or been successful number 2s or worked their way up, it might not be unheard but it would be very unusual for somebody to make such a big jump. |
Liverpool's u23s manager Neil Critchley just got the Blackpool job. Those cup games he had to step in for did his reputation plenty of favours.
Cameron was his dad's number two with Macedonia before coming to us. | | | |
| Tohack on 15:22 - Mar 19 with 1137 views | JackSomething |
| Tohack on 21:24 - Mar 18 by Kilkennyjack |
Come on then big boy ... you tell us how you are so certain that an untried Academy manager who never played at top level ... and our own club did not feel able to appoint twice - is sooooo much better than (a) wales’s most successful manager ever and Swansea boy, and (b) a 51 cap premier league standard player who is also a Swansea boy.
Be great if you could enlighten us with your superior football knowledge. |
None of those facts about Hartson would suggest he would make a good manager. Would I rather have someone who has done all his badges and coached for years at youth level than an ex-pro who has (as far as I know) only done a little part time coaching work with Newport and Wales? Yes I would.
For every Alex Ferguson or Pep Guardiola there's a Jose Mourinho or Arsene Wenger. It's not about names or playing career, it's about who would be best to manage our club. Right now, if it was between John Hartson or Cameron Toshack, I'd say Toshack wins hands down. |  |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| Tohack on 21:55 - Mar 19 with 1068 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Tohack on 15:22 - Mar 19 by JackSomething |
None of those facts about Hartson would suggest he would make a good manager. Would I rather have someone who has done all his badges and coached for years at youth level than an ex-pro who has (as far as I know) only done a little part time coaching work with Newport and Wales? Yes I would.
For every Alex Ferguson or Pep Guardiola there's a Jose Mourinho or Arsene Wenger. It's not about names or playing career, it's about who would be best to manage our club. Right now, if it was between John Hartson or Cameron Toshack, I'd say Toshack wins hands down. |
Johan Cruyff, Beckenbauer, and Klinnsman were ok managers mind.
Likewise Busby, Shanks, Revie and Clough.
Who would have thought that experience and hard earned knowledge might help...?
Think John Toshack.
None of that counts compared to a piece of paper you earn over 2 years with the FA, of course. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Tohack on 22:12 - Mar 19 with 1051 views | majorraglan |
I am not talking about Toshack here as he has had experience of managing teams, but I can’t understand why people want to entrust the fate/fortune of a multimillion pound organisations to complete novices. It may work out now and again, but invariably it usually ends up in failure. | | | |
| Tohack on 22:13 - Mar 19 with 1048 views | ladyjack |
| Tohack on 15:11 - Mar 19 by jasper_T |
Liverpool's u23s manager Neil Critchley just got the Blackpool job. Those cup games he had to step in for did his reputation plenty of favours.
Cameron was his dad's number two with Macedonia before coming to us. |
Blackpool are in the 3rd tier, the Swans are in the Championship. | | | |
| Tohack on 00:44 - Mar 20 with 1012 views | TimTtam |
| Tohack on 15:01 - Mar 19 by ladyjack |
Because of his Swansea connection that would be possible, might not be likely but possible, to go to a top Championship team other than Swansea from having a first taste of being a senior manager with a mid table Cypriot team to then getting the managers job with a good Championship team with that kind of CV would be unlikely.
He would need to get into Europe and beat a top Premiership team or win the Cypriot league and perform creditably in qualifying for the Champions League, but mid table in Cyprus to go straight to managing a top Championship team would be very unlikely. |
Cooper didn't qualify for the Europa league and beat a PL team. In fact he had 0 senior managerial experience before coming here. Yes he won the U17s world cup, but he had some of the best youngsters in football at his disposal.
Maybe in theory Toshack wouldn't be suitable for a Championship role, but some clubs (especially us) tend to take risks with their appointments. I can see him as an option because of his Swansea links, and because he'll be a cheap option. | |
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| Tohack on 06:50 - Mar 20 with 969 views | ladyjack |
| Tohack on 00:44 - Mar 20 by TimTtam |
Cooper didn't qualify for the Europa league and beat a PL team. In fact he had 0 senior managerial experience before coming here. Yes he won the U17s world cup, but he had some of the best youngsters in football at his disposal.
Maybe in theory Toshack wouldn't be suitable for a Championship role, but some clubs (especially us) tend to take risks with their appointments. I can see him as an option because of his Swansea links, and because he'll be a cheap option. |
Cooper was manager of Liverpools academy and then took the England job and won a junior world cup | | | |
| Tohack on 10:15 - Mar 20 with 927 views | JackSomething |
| Tohack on 21:55 - Mar 19 by Kilkennyjack |
Johan Cruyff, Beckenbauer, and Klinnsman were ok managers mind.
Likewise Busby, Shanks, Revie and Clough.
Who would have thought that experience and hard earned knowledge might help...?
Think John Toshack.
None of that counts compared to a piece of paper you earn over 2 years with the FA, of course. |
My point was that someone with no/little professional playing experience is just as likely to be a great manager as those who were great players.
I could point out the managerial careers of the likes of Roy Keane, Bobby Moore, Diego Maradonna, Hristo Stoichkov, Lothar Matthaus, Paul Ince, Bobby Charlton, Tony Adams, Mark Hughes...
John Toshack was a great player and a great manager. Remind me about Brendan Rodgers' stellar playing career would you?
If you want to assume that any successful player would make a better manager than someone who didn't have a professional career, then go ahead. Just don't expect most people, especially those running football teams, to agree with you. [Post edited 20 Mar 2020 10:22]
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| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| Tohack on 10:32 - Mar 20 with 917 views | theloneranger |
You can also look at some very successful managers who never played a single professional match in their careers ...
Arrigo Sacchi, Gerard Houllier, Roy Hodgson, Carlos Alberto Parreira, etc |  |
| Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎 |
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