| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning 00:27 - Oct 6 with 6569 views | AndyCole |
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Effective and Efficient Football = Winning. It's our business, to Win.
Effective = Doing the Right Things
Efficient = Doing The Right Things Well
Our US investors will be constantly monitoring our business model performance to gauge how we are doing against our competitors.
This year - we don't do the Right Things, to Win. Our manager seems unable to focus on doing the Right Things to Win a football match.
Last 2 years we were Highly Effective and Efficient, hence our massive relative achievements. Up there, nigh on Best In Class in this league.
This year we have spent unprecedented amounts. And yet we continue to be languishing with not very clever, highly ineffective, bottom quartile efficient. Hence we are hovering perilously just above the drop zone, by a thread. It ain't no coincidence.
This really ain't difficult.
Any organisation that wants to succeed, be up there as the Best In Class, needs to be the most Effective and the most Efficient.
Martine needs some help, he lacks focus. Lacks focus on winning. Lacks the ability to recognise Highly effective and Efficient football. Something the US Owners will be well versed in - Best In Class Investment.
(PS - global Advisory firms make billions from the advice above - let's hope Martin (and some of our twper followers) pay heed from this free advice - (though I know how far it will wash over the heads of the many)).
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| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 01:45 - Dec 15 with 1063 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 23:57 - Dec 14 by AndyCole |
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Bump.
In so many ways.
A few of us are expecting and hoping Silverstein & Co are catching up on events right now, and reading the pre eminent Swans forum for proper fans' insight. Fact.
Cooperball smashed Martinball out of the park. As they say. Fact.
Winning football = effective, efficient. This really ain't difficult is it. So why on earth is Martin incapable of learning to play football to win games, consistently.
He seems erudite enough in his pressers. Maybe it's just clever words. An ego thing.
I have to agree with one or two of the more astute that brand Martin is precisely that, and only that. It's all about him, how he likes to be perceived. It's not the Reality of real world football, nowadays.
He didn't get the memo.
I'll print it off and stick on his door, on The Manager's filing cabinet, on the dressing room whiteboard and ofc into Wunter's and the Owners' inboxes, for good measure.
Effective and Efficient Football, This Ain't.
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Cooper beat Martin fair and square no doubt about that, Martin has inherited a weakened error strewn group of players,
Hamer was responsible for three bad goals from poor reflexes positioning and handling. Manning jumped out of one challenge and gave a careless pass for the fourth. Neither Manning nor Hamer made the Cooper team of last year. Lessons learned. Grimes Downes and Cabango need to learn "when to take one for the team".
Swansea must develop into a slick passing team with or without Martin. Cooperball is opportunistic and not in the Swansea tradition. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 09:27 - Dec 15 with 1018 views | onehunglow |
Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water,along comes a basking shark.
With apologies to Mr Simon...Words of the prophets are writing on subway walls
and tenement halls | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 14:01 - May 1 with 916 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Probably worth another read.
That last article, 71% possession too - uncanny isn’t it. [Post edited 1 May 2022 14:03]
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 00:06 - May 2 with 863 views | vetchonian |
sounds familar and some call orr us to sign Darling
people still believe in the process | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 02:04 - May 2 with 847 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 00:06 - May 2 by vetchonian |
sounds familar and some call orr us to sign Darling
people still believe in the process |
Indeed, you can keep changing out the players from an attainable pool of them - the outcome is the same.
The system is the issue. | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 08:21 - May 2 with 815 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
27 shots from just 30% possession.
Nottingham managed to achieve a shot against us for every sixty seconds they had the ball.
That's so incredible it almost sounds unbelievable. Yet, some still want to see the orchestrator given another season. It's bizarre. |  |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 08:47 - May 2 with 792 views | KeithHaynes |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 04:31 - Oct 9 by Dr_Parnassus |
To put that view into practice, here are the stats and as usual I'm 99% sure that they will back my views, I will post regardless...
Our most effective and efficient, winning managers in our recent history... in order.
The last 13 managers spanning the last 20 years (ish) that have been in charge in a single stint for 10+ games, not including caretaker managers such as Curtis.
These count league games only as standard of opposition varies in the cup. You may now see why Laudrup was sacked too...
Brendan Rodgers 49.4% - Poached
Roberto Martinez - 47.6% - Poached
Kenny Jackett - 44.8% - Sacked
Steve Cooper - 44.3% - Mutual consent (technically poached)
Graham Potter - 39.1% - Poached
Paulo Sousa - 37.0% - Mutual consent (technically poached)
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Garry Monk - 35.8% - Sacked
Paul Clement 30.6% - Sacked
Francesco Guidolin - 30.0% - Sacked
Carlos Carvalhal - 27.8% - Sacked
Michael Laudrup - 27.4% - Sacked
Bob Bradley - 18.2% - Sacked
Russell Martin - 18.2% - ????
So those criticising the effectiveness of Martin's current performances would more likely be longing for a return to the Martinez and Rodgers days as opposed to the Monk days... who doesn't even come in the top half when it comes to ''efficient and effective''... well half of him does I guess, he splits the field.
There is a clear trend in terms of league performance in terms of how efficient the team is. Those below the line sacked, those above were poached.
Kenny Jackett being the only outlier. |
So many threads, are these win percentages ? |  |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 08:54 - May 2 with 783 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 08:47 - May 2 by KeithHaynes |
So many threads, are these win percentages ? |
They are, for league games, but that's from October so the data now is not current.
Old thread.
(He now slots in between Monk and Clement with 35.55%.) [Post edited 2 May 2022 8:57]
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 09:00 - May 2 with 764 views | Whiterockin |
After next Saturdays match it will be interesting to see if we have improved over the second half of the season with a 23 match split. |  | | |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 09:03 - May 2 with 752 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 09:00 - May 2 by Whiterockin |
After next Saturdays match it will be interesting to see if we have improved over the second half of the season with a 23 match split. |
We have already but its marginal. 2 points difference.
We benefitted from that run of 7 games due to the rearranged games where we played 6 of the 7 bottom teams or something to that effect. | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 09:29 - May 2 with 736 views | onehunglow |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 08:47 - May 2 by KeithHaynes |
So many threads, are these win percentages ? |
I don't like stats really.
Probably down to a vicious Maths teacher in the 60s. My eyes glaze over when percentages are in evidence.
They mislead and are often meaningless.
As is obvious ,really. | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 09:37 - May 2 with 730 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 09:29 - May 2 by onehunglow |
I don't like stats really.
Probably down to a vicious Maths teacher in the 60s. My eyes glaze over when percentages are in evidence.
They mislead and are often meaningless.
As is obvious ,really. |
Predictive stats can be, factual stats aren't meaningless however.
It's simply a vessel of displaying facts, facts many people miss without them. | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 09:41 - May 2 with 730 views | onehunglow |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 09:37 - May 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
Predictive stats can be, factual stats aren't meaningless however.
It's simply a vessel of displaying facts, facts many people miss without them. |
Morning.
I believe they detract.
Evidence of thi is the lauding of a team unbeaten in 10;misleading because we were ,as we have been ,abject ,in different ways.
It's rather like statistics of possession in a game.70% possession would tend to suggest control.If you control,you win. As for passing stats. | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 09:48 - May 2 with 725 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 09:41 - May 2 by onehunglow |
Morning.
I believe they detract.
Evidence of thi is the lauding of a team unbeaten in 10;misleading because we were ,as we have been ,abject ,in different ways.
It's rather like statistics of possession in a game.70% possession would tend to suggest control.If you control,you win. As for passing stats. |
Stats back up the reality, its the interpretation of those stats that can be misleading.
For example the overarching stat is ''unbeaten in 9'', it's very broad and clumsy.
Because being unbeaten doesn't doesn't mean you are good. You can go unbeaten all season in the Premier League and get relegated with 38 points. Unlikely, but possible.
So you drill down into that and look at the opposition, points gained and extrapolate.
Correct stats are very useful, which is why teams have whole departments dedicated to it and invest copious amounts of money into it. Clumsy ones usually repeated by people that don't understand them aren't very helpful to depicting reality.
Possession showing ''dominance'' is another such clumsy stat. Again that is an issue of interpretation rather than the stat itself however as the stat is simply a fact. | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 09:56 - May 2 with 721 views | onehunglow |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 09:48 - May 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
Stats back up the reality, its the interpretation of those stats that can be misleading.
For example the overarching stat is ''unbeaten in 9'', it's very broad and clumsy.
Because being unbeaten doesn't doesn't mean you are good. You can go unbeaten all season in the Premier League and get relegated with 38 points. Unlikely, but possible.
So you drill down into that and look at the opposition, points gained and extrapolate.
Correct stats are very useful, which is why teams have whole departments dedicated to it and invest copious amounts of money into it. Clumsy ones usually repeated by people that don't understand them aren't very helpful to depicting reality.
Possession showing ''dominance'' is another such clumsy stat. Again that is an issue of interpretation rather than the stat itself however as the stat is simply a fact. |
That's a good reply .
I'm not convinced but it's eloquent and insult free.
Learn people. | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 13:28 - May 2 with 686 views | Whiterockin |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 09:03 - May 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
We have already but its marginal. 2 points difference.
We benefitted from that run of 7 games due to the rearranged games where we played 6 of the 7 bottom teams or something to that effect. |
The rearranged games have had no influence regarding the bottom 7 teams. We played Huddersfield twice in the first 23 games and will be playing QPR twice in the second 23, the bottom 7 teams were played in each batch of 23 games. The only impact the rearranged games are that we have had less recovery in-between matches in the second 23 games. | | | |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 15:15 - May 2 with 658 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 13:28 - May 2 by Whiterockin |
The rearranged games have had no influence regarding the bottom 7 teams. We played Huddersfield twice in the first 23 games and will be playing QPR twice in the second 23, the bottom 7 teams were played in each batch of 23 games. The only impact the rearranged games are that we have had less recovery in-between matches in the second 23 games. |
What do you mean it had no influence regarding them? The schedule for the second half of the season was rearranged.
It allowed a run of 7 games which were freakishly favourable for a team in 16th.
Runs of games against bottom sides create momentum, that’s how teams go on unbeaten runs and confidence soars. If those 7 games were interspersed evenly among the 23 as opposed to being back to back, the chances of putting a run together decrease significantly.
There was no run anything close to that in the opening 23. | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 16:01 - May 2 with 639 views | Whiterockin |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 15:15 - May 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
What do you mean it had no influence regarding them? The schedule for the second half of the season was rearranged.
It allowed a run of 7 games which were freakishly favourable for a team in 16th.
Runs of games against bottom sides create momentum, that’s how teams go on unbeaten runs and confidence soars. If those 7 games were interspersed evenly among the 23 as opposed to being back to back, the chances of putting a run together decrease significantly.
There was no run anything close to that in the opening 23. |
As I stated we played the bottom 7 in the first and second half of the season the 23 game split is the same apart from Huddersfield twice in the first 23 and QPR twice in the second. I was not highlighting a 7 game run but a season split from halfway. | | | |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 16:17 - May 2 with 610 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 16:01 - May 2 by Whiterockin |
As I stated we played the bottom 7 in the first and second half of the season the 23 game split is the same apart from Huddersfield twice in the first 23 and QPR twice in the second. I was not highlighting a 7 game run but a season split from halfway. |
Right, and I’m telling you that a 7 game run where as a side in 16th, 6 of those 7 games are against teams below you is advantageous as opposed to them being interspersed in the 23. It’s how teams go on runs and build confidence.
So while there is a slight improvement in points return (2), it’s pretty negligible. It isn’t the progress that you would want to be seeing as a result of writing off a season, is it? | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 16:27 - May 2 with 598 views | magicdaps10 |
After 23 games we had 28 points
After 45 games we have 61 points.... So 25 games on we have obtained 33 points.
5 points better off with a game to go. |  |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 16:28 - May 2 with 594 views | Whiterockin |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 16:17 - May 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
Right, and I’m telling you that a 7 game run where as a side in 16th, 6 of those 7 games are against teams below you is advantageous as opposed to them being interspersed in the 23. It’s how teams go on runs and build confidence.
So while there is a slight improvement in points return (2), it’s pretty negligible. It isn’t the progress that you would want to be seeing as a result of writing off a season, is it? |
I thought we had 28 points after 23 games we now have 61 points 33 points more with a game to go. That's currently 5 points (not 2) with a game to go so it could be 8. Nothing major but still an improvement, we are moving in the right direction. Hopefully the defence will be tighter next season and we will stop giving away stupid goals. | | | |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 16:35 - May 2 with 579 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Yes I just gave it a refresh, 5 points difference you are right.
But as I said, writing off a whole season for that kind of improvement seems sheer madness.
The fixtures fell very nicely in the second half of the season to allow such a run, it’s not very often a team in 16th will have such a luxury.
We are a side that needs to be striving for the 75-80 point mark. | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 16:44 - May 2 with 555 views | Whiterockin |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 16:35 - May 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yes I just gave it a refresh, 5 points difference you are right.
But as I said, writing off a whole season for that kind of improvement seems sheer madness.
The fixtures fell very nicely in the second half of the season to allow such a run, it’s not very often a team in 16th will have such a luxury.
We are a side that needs to be striving for the 75-80 point mark. |
I don't believe we are writing off the season for that improvement, because it is within the season you say we are writing off. Write a season off you expect improvement the following season.
The club have done what they promised RM and have given him the season to transform the club on and off the field. There has to be an improvement next season with a minimum of top 10 by christmas and signs of better to come or he will be under pressure. | | | |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 16:52 - May 2 with 542 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 16:44 - May 2 by Whiterockin |
I don't believe we are writing off the season for that improvement, because it is within the season you say we are writing off. Write a season off you expect improvement the following season.
The club have done what they promised RM and have given him the season to transform the club on and off the field. There has to be an improvement next season with a minimum of top 10 by christmas and signs of better to come or he will be under pressure. |
But it’s linear, you should be seeing significant improvements along the journey.
It’s not a case of ending game 46 of his reign and someone clicking their fingers and by game 47 we are a different side. It doesn’t work like that.
In fact it doesn’t work at all really, this is a new concept dreamed up by fans this season to excuse poor performance. What other Swans manager who has come in and changed a style needed to write off a whole season to implement his ideas before?
As Cooper has shown this season under similar circumstances (no pre season, no transfer window until Jan) - a good manager should make significant improvements quickly. There should be no writing off seasons.
We both know what’s going to happen next season. Piroe will move on, or another big player, we will sign some new players. The narrative will then be “upheaval in pre season, Martin looking to bed in new players and must be given time to rebuild”.
There is already a thread on the other forum talking about next season being a rebuilding one. It’s tiresome. | |
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