| Can anyone explain.....? 19:15 - Oct 29 with 4628 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/28/covid-vaccinated-likely-unjabbed-i
Vaccinated people apparently spread the virus at a similar rate to unvaccinated so can anyone explain
Why we are vaccinating children who are at no risk?
PS I'm not anti-vaccination, I've had mine and I understand it offers protection to people at risk, with no long term studies it feels right to be careful with children and young people at no risk.
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| Can anyone explain.....? on 11:00 - Oct 31 with 1089 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 09:47 - Oct 30 by Dr_Winston |
Vaccination has always primarily been about preventing serious illness. From day one the stats about how vaccination drastically reduces the likelihood of infection serious enough to require hospital treatment have been trumpeted.
Of course, the anti-Vaxx loonies conveniently ignore that, pretending that it was claimed that Vaccination could always prevent infection completely, which of course it never was. In some cases it can, and there is some evidence to suggest that it reduces the risk of transmission, but that's never been its main job. |
You’ve had polio then???? |  |
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| Can anyone explain.....? on 11:06 - Oct 31 with 1086 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 11:50 - Oct 30 by JACKMANANDBOY |
I'm not an anti-vaxer, I have been vaccinated and so have family members. I just don't understand why we would vaccinate healthy children at no risk if the vaccine does not stop transmission which is what the recent research says, especially as no one knows the long term impact. |
Unvaccinated children are the firebreak. Once we all coop our clogged our future adults will have a strong natural immunity .
Anyone ever consider that really speaking only the over 50’s and those with pre existing health conditions of all ages should have been immunised? | |
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| Can anyone explain.....? on 11:13 - Oct 31 with 1076 views | Professor |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 11:06 - Oct 31 by Brynmill_Jack |
Unvaccinated children are the firebreak. Once we all coop our clogged our future adults will have a strong natural immunity .
Anyone ever consider that really speaking only the over 50’s and those with pre existing health conditions of all ages should have been immunised? |
Great way to drive viral evolution there. |  | | |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 11:23 - Oct 31 with 1071 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 10:37 - Oct 30 by controversial_jack |
No it hasn't. Vaccination has always been about preventing the spread of any disease and therefore eliminating them
This vaccine is failing to do that.It mitigates the effects, which obviously is good, but it isn't going to make this virus go away.
Flu has virtually disappeared. In the US, two strains of flu have gone. I have said all along. Personal responsibility and discipline will do more than science will. |
Vaccination has always been about giving your body the best chance of fighting off a disease. Eradicating an illness completely has never really been the goal. As far as I’m aware it’s only smallpox and another one whose name I can’t remember that has been eradicated. If the intention of vaccines were to eradicate viruses from the world there’s be no viruses left by now. | | | |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 11:33 - Oct 31 with 1068 views | Professor |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 11:23 - Oct 31 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
Vaccination has always been about giving your body the best chance of fighting off a disease. Eradicating an illness completely has never really been the goal. As far as I’m aware it’s only smallpox and another one whose name I can’t remember that has been eradicated. If the intention of vaccines were to eradicate viruses from the world there’s be no viruses left by now. |
Rinderpest in cattle. Only two eradicated infectious diseases | | | |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 11:51 - Oct 31 with 1052 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 11:33 - Oct 31 by Professor |
Rinderpest in cattle. Only two eradicated infectious diseases |
I don’t know much about rinderpest but judging by the name it sounds bloody horrible. | | | |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 12:14 - Oct 31 with 1045 views | ExiledJack |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 11:13 - Oct 31 by Professor |
Great way to drive viral evolution there. |
If you wouldn’t mind I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on this please. It isn’t talked about often in the press.
Isn’t viral evolution happening all the time? Should we be trying to slow it so that the current vaccines remain effective? Or should we try to create conditions that favour faster evolution into a less virulent strain?
As a non-expert observer it looks as though the virus has become more virulent over time, which makes me question the approach taken thus far. | | | |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 12:24 - Oct 31 with 1027 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 12:14 - Oct 31 by ExiledJack |
If you wouldn’t mind I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on this please. It isn’t talked about often in the press.
Isn’t viral evolution happening all the time? Should we be trying to slow it so that the current vaccines remain effective? Or should we try to create conditions that favour faster evolution into a less virulent strain?
As a non-expert observer it looks as though the virus has become more virulent over time, which makes me question the approach taken thus far. |
What prof doesn't tell you is that many top virulogists and studies show that leaky vaccines like the mRNA ones can create more chances of mutation, not less.
But they are all wrong of course. | | | |
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| Can anyone explain.....? on 14:18 - Oct 31 with 1018 views | Professor |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 12:14 - Oct 31 by ExiledJack |
If you wouldn’t mind I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on this please. It isn’t talked about often in the press.
Isn’t viral evolution happening all the time? Should we be trying to slow it so that the current vaccines remain effective? Or should we try to create conditions that favour faster evolution into a less virulent strain?
As a non-expert observer it looks as though the virus has become more virulent over time, which makes me question the approach taken thus far. |
Ok. I’m trying to think of a simple way to explain it. Bear with me on this. May have to wait until tomorrow | | | |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 20:15 - Oct 31 with 983 views | Catullus |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 12:24 - Oct 31 by A_Fans_Dad |
What prof doesn't tell you is that many top virulogists and studies show that leaky vaccines like the mRNA ones can create more chances of mutation, not less.
But they are all wrong of course. |
From what I've read most of them accept leaky vaccines can be a problem, such as the one for Marek's disease. However, not all vaccines are leaky and much like other misrepresented facts, owhere near as many as people like you say.
Of course you can feel free to make the counter argument and I'll wait to get Prof's opinon to see if I'm right or wrong! | |
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| Can anyone explain.....? on 22:18 - Oct 31 with 957 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 20:15 - Oct 31 by Catullus |
From what I've read most of them accept leaky vaccines can be a problem, such as the one for Marek's disease. However, not all vaccines are leaky and much like other misrepresented facts, owhere near as many as people like you say.
Of course you can feel free to make the counter argument and I'll wait to get Prof's opinon to see if I'm right or wrong! |
No counter argument needed.
As you say most Vaccines are not very leaky.
COVID mRNA vaccines however are leaky and obviously get leakier as their immunity fades, so by 6 months they are very leaky. | | | |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 23:55 - Oct 31 with 955 views | controversial_jack |
One of the experts from Pfizer, a Dutch guy, has come out and said, " two jabs will give reasonable protection for about 8 months." That's not very reassuring at all, but at least he has admitted it. | | | |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 03:46 - Nov 1 with 930 views | RonaldStump |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 13:16 - Oct 30 by CountyJim |
Believe me what I've seen past few weeks it's younger people getting the worst effects and the unvaccinated |
Do you stop and ask everyone their age and jab status you whopper.
Do you stalk all Covid patients and read their bed boards just so you can score points on a football forum? [Post edited 1 Nov 2021 3:52]
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| Can anyone explain.....? on 09:56 - Nov 1 with 911 views | controversial_jack |
My wife does, and it's still mostly the older ppl who are suffering, although not exclusively. Double jabbed are in there too. However, it's mostly those with underlying conditions, really the ones that should be getting the protection from the jab. She does however seem to think, patients in general don't seem as sick as in the previous waves, but she doesn't work in ICU. | | | |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 11:52 - Nov 1 with 892 views | Professor |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 12:14 - Oct 31 by ExiledJack |
If you wouldn’t mind I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on this please. It isn’t talked about often in the press.
Isn’t viral evolution happening all the time? Should we be trying to slow it so that the current vaccines remain effective? Or should we try to create conditions that favour faster evolution into a less virulent strain?
As a non-expert observer it looks as though the virus has become more virulent over time, which makes me question the approach taken thus far. |
So simply- all evolution occurs because of a genetic change or mutation. We, as mammals evolve slowly as we have long generation time and when we replicate our genetic material it is not very prone to error. About one in every 10 billion cell replication events causes a mutation. Some don't cause any change, others are lethal to the cell and very occasionally they lead to a change in how a cell behaves (its phenotype). In your lifetime the mutation you are most likely to see is a cell that is cancerous.
Viruses which replicate more quickly (as do bacteria) so a change can be established more quickly in a population. RNA viruses like coronaviruses which use RNA rather than DNA are far more error prone (lack good proof reading in replication) so have a mutation event about once in a million replications. This happens anyway and eventually you see changes in a population. What drives change is selection. If a mutant has an advantage under what we call a selectionary pressure, it will become the dominant type. This is more readily seen in bacteria with antibiotic resistance.
So in the case of SARS CoV2 (we are talking about the virus, not Covid which is the disease) mutations have happened in the spike protein. These have given new variants (alpha then delta) two advantages -most importantly they are far more able to attach to host cells (via the ACE2 receptor) and cause infection more readily (what are call attack rate) and as such Alpha, then Delta cause infections more readily and so have an advantage. Delta has such and advantage over the original Wuhan strain, that the original strain and even now Alpha have become virtually extinct in the UK population. This is its big advantage. They have not really become more virulent (nastier) just more efficient.
The second advantage is the change in the spike proteins (which the vaccines are made against) means that the immune response is less efficient. It's not absent and worth remembering that the Pfizer vaccine still reduces symptomatic infection by 90% and all infection by 50%-so it still works well.
Now these variants arose before vaccination. Alpha is considered to have come from Kent in September 2000, the origins of Delta are less clear. (we know about Alpha as the UK sequences more viruses through COG than anyone else). It's fairly certain they came about in people infected for a longer time. In this case as infection progresses antibody levels began to rise (the immune system is not like a tap that switches on a supply) at around 5-7 days after infection. Initially these antibodies don't recognise their target well (what we call low affinity), but well enough to clear most virus apart from our variant which survives, replicates and spreads.
To go back to the original question. If we vaccinated 25% of a population, there will be a pressure on the virus to avoid immunity from a vaccine. Whilst all vaccines reduce disease, the amount of infection transmission they produce varies. Very few, if any, completely stop transmission-what is called sterilising immunity. As we said above the SARS CoV2 vaccines reduce but still allow some transmission-they are leaky as is nearly every other vaccines (this is what AFD wets his pants over but does not understand what it means). So if a mutation occurs that reduces vaccine efficacy, it's going to be a rare event and would still be hard to overcome immunity when most of the population is vaccinated and/or immune from prior infection. But if only a small part of the population is vaccinated and most are susceptible to infection then the mutant has somewhere to go that's an easy ride. The virus then spreads through a susceptible population as happened with Alpha. Now Delta has not spread to the extent it would without vaccines, but because we left a large population unvaccinated and susceptible without other controls in classrooms, we still have a lot of circulating virus. (I'm not going into if this is right or wrong) but from an epidemiological/immunological perspective it has increased our problems in the UK
Cat mentioned Marek's Disease Virus (MDV) and this is an example of how things can go wrong with a vaccines that protects against disease symptoms, but does not prevent infection. MDV is a big and relatively complex herpesvirus that caused general disease and paralysis in chickens. In 1967 a vaccine (a related virus from Turkeys) was introduced that stopped disease, but had NO effect on transmission. In time MDV evolved to become more virulent and is now more associated with lymphoma. Newer vaccines were introduced, which although still somewhat leaky, that have largely controlled the disease as they work well enough to protect the whole population.
There is no evidence that vaccination has driven virulence for SARS CoV2.
I was worried that the long gap we used between doses in the UK may lead to this problem, but I was thankfully wrong. The short length of high titre antibody responses is not ideal, but boosters should protect enough people short-term and longer term again act to reduce spread.
Ultimately the more of a population are resistant, reduces the likelihood of any infection spreading. In the end even a more transmissible strain has nowhere to go in a highly vaccinated population.
If you want to read more I recommend these articles:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-00479-7
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-few-vaccines-prevent-infection-heres-why | | | |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 13:55 - Nov 1 with 856 views | dizietsma |
Thank you for taking the time to post that Professor - very interesting, especially the part about AFD wetting his pants, I didn't know that.
There's been a lot of talk online about aspirating when giving intra-muscular injections, or not, as the case may be. Is that why there seem to be so many adverse effects to the jab, do you know? Or is it something in the vaccine itself? | | | |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 14:25 - Nov 1 with 844 views | ExiledJack |
Thanks Professor, that was well written and very helpful, cheers | | | |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 14:31 - Nov 1 with 841 views | Professor |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 13:55 - Nov 1 by dizietsma |
Thank you for taking the time to post that Professor - very interesting, especially the part about AFD wetting his pants, I didn't know that.
There's been a lot of talk online about aspirating when giving intra-muscular injections, or not, as the case may be. Is that why there seem to be so many adverse effects to the jab, do you know? Or is it something in the vaccine itself? |
There are not any more adverse effects that pretty much any other vaccine. Just a lot more scrutiny and a lot of misinformation | | | |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 19:22 - Nov 1 with 804 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 13:55 - Nov 1 by dizietsma |
Thank you for taking the time to post that Professor - very interesting, especially the part about AFD wetting his pants, I didn't know that.
There's been a lot of talk online about aspirating when giving intra-muscular injections, or not, as the case may be. Is that why there seem to be so many adverse effects to the jab, do you know? Or is it something in the vaccine itself? |
Just so you are aware it is not me wetting my pants over leaky mRNA Vaccines it is Doctors and Specialists, some of whom are world renowned as I have pointed out in the past.
If you would like some alternative interpretations of the situation to prof's just let me know and I will post a link or two. | | | |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 19:39 - Nov 1 with 798 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 14:31 - Nov 1 by Professor |
There are not any more adverse effects that pretty much any other vaccine. Just a lot more scrutiny and a lot of misinformation |
Sorry, I cannot let that statement go unchallenged.
Perhaps you would like to read this analysis of the VAERs data.
If you think that anti-vaxxers have access to all the vaccine batch codes and where they have been used and made up the VAERs reports then you really are deluding yourself.
For this analysis they set up a control group consisting of all the Flu Vaccine side effects and compared them to the COVID mRNA vaccine side effects.
Deaths from Flu vacccines with lot numbers = 17, Deaths from Pfizer Vaccine with lot numbers = 2828, Moderna deaths with lot numbers = 2603.
Certain lots were much more deadly than others.
Nope no worse than any other vaccine.
https://theexpose.uk/2021/10/31/100-percent-of-covid-19-vaccine-deaths-caused-by
Of course the reporters could have just made it all up like the Lancet, as we know people do when they want to block certain drugs from being used.
ps if you don't think Pfizer has major quality issues then watch this video, it is from a US Pfizer factory quality department employee turned whistleblower, who is about to lose her job for telling the truth.
https://www.worldviewweekend.com/tv/video/pfizer-whistleblower-melissa-mcatee-va [Post edited 1 Nov 2021 19:48]
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| Can anyone explain.....? on 23:47 - Nov 1 with 769 views | dizietsma |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 19:22 - Nov 1 by A_Fans_Dad |
Just so you are aware it is not me wetting my pants over leaky mRNA Vaccines it is Doctors and Specialists, some of whom are world renowned as I have pointed out in the past.
If you would like some alternative interpretations of the situation to prof's just let me know and I will post a link or two. |
Thank you for the offer AFD, but I don't really like following links. The last time Kerouac offered me a link I ended up listening to Steve Bannon!!! | | | |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 07:16 - Nov 2 with 745 views | Scotia |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 19:22 - Nov 1 by A_Fans_Dad |
Just so you are aware it is not me wetting my pants over leaky mRNA Vaccines it is Doctors and Specialists, some of whom are world renowned as I have pointed out in the past.
If you would like some alternative interpretations of the situation to prof's just let me know and I will post a link or two. |
World renowned in what field though? Who claims they are world renowned themselves or welovetrump.com? | | | |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 07:19 - Nov 2 with 743 views | Scotia |
Back to the OP though.
For a bit of context you need to consider the first line of the article.
"People who are fully vaccinated against Covid yet catch the virus"
A very significant percentage of those vaccinated won't contract the virus in the first place and therefore won't spreaad it. Epecially in the few months following vaccination. That's one of the reasons we are vaccinating kids. | | | |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 08:04 - Nov 2 with 729 views | CountyJim |
| Can anyone explain.....? on 03:46 - Nov 1 by RonaldStump |
Do you stop and ask everyone their age and jab status you whopper.
Do you stalk all Covid patients and read their bed boards just so you can score points on a football forum? [Post edited 1 Nov 2021 3:52]
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No during a shift I will have to go on every ward in the hospital Even Red wards and take patients for scans etc you pick up on these things when I'm talking to consultants doctors nurses etc I'd ask how's it looking boss they'll tell you as it is . |  | | |
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