| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 22:25 - Mar 2 with 737 views | swancity |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 22:17 - Mar 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
You don’t think it’s extremely unprofessional and shocking behaviour for our manager to be telling our support to “fk off” during games and gesticulating to them after we score?
We clearly have different standards then. |
It depends what the fan said to him. Some Football fans seem to think that they can say anything to players and managers with no repercussions. The fan who insulted Eric Cantiona thought that.
Martin is under pressure, he knows that but is so far handling it well and continues to be positive. Good luck to him. No one deserves personal abuse.
Yes may be we have different standards. |  |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 22:30 - Mar 2 with 736 views | magicdaps10 |
Not great if it happened as posted but I would certainly think it was likely different to what is being made out.
I personally wouldn't be shouting or gobbing off if I was with my children at the game, I certainly wouldn't be shouting things like "taking the piss" and if someone was, I would bet that they were using stronger words than "piss" if they had the front to stand up and chops away in front of so many people with kids in tow.
More to this than is being laid out on these forums for sure.
BUT
If Martin reacted as he is accused then it's poor form and doesn't reflect well on him if he did this.
A reaction of a guy under pressure and not in the right frame of mind. |  |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 22:41 - Mar 2 with 708 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 22:25 - Mar 2 by swancity |
It depends what the fan said to him. Some Football fans seem to think that they can say anything to players and managers with no repercussions. The fan who insulted Eric Cantiona thought that.
Martin is under pressure, he knows that but is so far handling it well and continues to be positive. Good luck to him. No one deserves personal abuse.
Yes may be we have different standards. |
What was said has been described in the post.
Nobody has suggested anything different have they?
As it stands, his reaction was ridiculous. |  |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 22:44 - Mar 2 with 697 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 22:30 - Mar 2 by magicdaps10 |
Not great if it happened as posted but I would certainly think it was likely different to what is being made out.
I personally wouldn't be shouting or gobbing off if I was with my children at the game, I certainly wouldn't be shouting things like "taking the piss" and if someone was, I would bet that they were using stronger words than "piss" if they had the front to stand up and chops away in front of so many people with kids in tow.
More to this than is being laid out on these forums for sure.
BUT
If Martin reacted as he is accused then it's poor form and doesn't reflect well on him if he did this.
A reaction of a guy under pressure and not in the right frame of mind. |
Doesn’t appear to be much more to it looking at it logically.
The suggestion is that those around him were very much in the fans corner. If there had been stronger abuse then I very much doubt that would have been the case.
Also to be completely quiet in the second half (and not being thrown out) also suggests the words used were not abusive and not from someone out of control.
There is no reason to doubt the veracity of the post especially when it is mirrored by what Russell also said about it in the press conference, to which he defended his own reaction by making up that the goal came from Fisher - when it didn’t. | |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 22:58 - Mar 2 with 674 views | KeithHaynes |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 21:59 - Mar 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
This is what was said, I’m sure he won’t mind me copy and pasting:
………..
Re: The truth about the fan Martin references (I was sat nearby)
1) The whole stadium seemed to be frustrated with Fisher playing us into trouble
2) After the 3rd time Fisher played a suicidal pass the fan stood up and shouted something like;
"Get him off! You must have a youngster who can do better!"
3) Martin, stood on the touchline turned around and told the fan to;
"f**k off!"
4) The fan then responded;
"£400k? £10.5k a week!? You are taking the piss out of us!!"
5) 5 mins later we finally string some passes together at pace and we score...I don't recall Fisher
playing a part in that goal at all (you can't actually see the 'highlights' on the club site now either)
6) Everyone in the stand gets to their feet and claps the goal.
7) Martin and his coaching staff turn around and start mouthing off and making gestures to the fan Martin had told to f**k off (the fan had children with him)
8) Once the clapping died down the fan returns to his feet and shouts something like;
"Think you've achieved something wonderful do you? You are supposed to score a goal at home to Rotherham"
9) Staff on the bench have a word with the stewards and they come over to tell the fan that if he doesn't stop abusing Russell Martin he (and the children) will be thrown out.
They actually asked the fan to consider the fact that Martin's family are there and don't want to hear 'abuse'....it was Martin that initially shouted "f**k off!" to a fan and his kids, the irony.
10) The fan could be heard replying that Martin "is a highly paid football manager and I pay his wages...I regret renewing now....he must be very sensitive!" etc.
11) All of the fans sat in that section, including me, start defending the fan and his right to voice his opinion at the football. Stewards start arguing with the stand (to be fair, a difficult situation that they were put in). Then they toddle off back to the bench once the fan had agreed to "tone it down".
12) Even though we were winning it was a toxic atmosphere at half-time and the staff were still looking over at this fan.
13) The fan is quiet as a mouse in the 2nd half, I watched him closely, he rarely clapped never mind shouted anything (wouldn't surprise me if he hasn't asked for his money back this week and we lose another season ticket holder).
14) We continue to play shite and Rotherham inevitably equalize. The fan said nothing, we all shouted plenty though. The bench go silent.
15) We spawn a lucky point at home to Rotherham after one of the most shambolic halves of football I've ever seen...the half that Martin seems actually pleased by.
Cue massive boos and a pathetic press conference from Russ. |
I’ve had a chat with a few folk, that may well be one version.
But there are others. |  |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:00 - Mar 2 with 657 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Okay so just watched it back as I did just accuse Russ of making it up and wanted to be sure it wasn’t me that was mistaken.
Fisher last touches the ball with his feet in the 36th minute. A little touch to Cabango under zero pressure.
Since then, there was x3 throw ins, a Swansea corner, a Rotherham goal kick and a Swansea offside.
The goal game from a move started by Cabango (a Rotherham speculative pass cut out by him) with Fisher not being anywhere in the play with his feet for a full 5 mins prior.
Yet Martin justifies his reaction by claiming the goal was from a move Fisher started with his feet. | |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:01 - Mar 2 with 657 views | magicdaps10 |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 22:44 - Mar 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
Doesn’t appear to be much more to it looking at it logically.
The suggestion is that those around him were very much in the fans corner. If there had been stronger abuse then I very much doubt that would have been the case.
Also to be completely quiet in the second half (and not being thrown out) also suggests the words used were not abusive and not from someone out of control.
There is no reason to doubt the veracity of the post especially when it is mirrored by what Russell also said about it in the press conference, to which he defended his own reaction by making up that the goal came from Fisher - when it didn’t. |
Logically I would be taking it with a massive pinch of salt.
It's quite a damning claim by one poster, I would have certainly thought more would be backing this claim up and it would have been hit harder if it was as clear as Kerouac has made out.
Clearly Martin has got it wrong with regards to Fisher starting the play that leads to the goal but that's no reason to suggest that what Kerouac states is correct with that in mind.......nor does it mean because Martin brought up an interaction does it mean that what was claimed by Kerouac to be the truth.
I think most will have enough understanding and experience of these types of situations to just realise that without more coming out that it's likely not as clear as someone is posting on a football forum.
I know one or two who sit In that area behind the dugout and no one has mentioned anything to me so would suggest that nothing out of the ordinary happened......i could of course be wrong though. | |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:08 - Mar 2 with 639 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 22:58 - Mar 2 by KeithHaynes |
I’ve had a chat with a few folk, that may well be one version.
But there are others. |
It doesn’t appear to be anything other than that according to Russ. Shouting at him to take Fisher off and using sarcasm seemed to be the accusation from him, seems to align with the account posted.
………
“There was a guy screaming at me to take Andy Fisher off, sarcastically clapping when he kicked it. Then we scored a goal that Fish started with his feet and he started celebrating , that sort of stuff is frustrating, but that's football," said Martin.
"I'm not sure how he thinks that helps Andy Fisher perform really. Fish will be good for this experience, a guy who has come from League One, you either sink or you swim. He's not in a different position to a lot of the other young lads. People are entitled to their opinion, but it's not helpful." | |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:11 - Mar 2 with 636 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:01 - Mar 2 by magicdaps10 |
Logically I would be taking it with a massive pinch of salt.
It's quite a damning claim by one poster, I would have certainly thought more would be backing this claim up and it would have been hit harder if it was as clear as Kerouac has made out.
Clearly Martin has got it wrong with regards to Fisher starting the play that leads to the goal but that's no reason to suggest that what Kerouac states is correct with that in mind.......nor does it mean because Martin brought up an interaction does it mean that what was claimed by Kerouac to be the truth.
I think most will have enough understanding and experience of these types of situations to just realise that without more coming out that it's likely not as clear as someone is posting on a football forum.
I know one or two who sit In that area behind the dugout and no one has mentioned anything to me so would suggest that nothing out of the ordinary happened......i could of course be wrong though. |
Nobody is claiming anything else though.
Martin also said it was someone shouting to take Fisher off and sarcastically clapping when he did something well.
I see nothing to suggest that it was anything other than that. The fact he was not thrown out and the supporters around him backed him says it all.
Appears to be more excuse making for ridiculous behaviour from the manager. | |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:15 - Mar 2 with 632 views | STID2017 |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:01 - Mar 2 by magicdaps10 |
Logically I would be taking it with a massive pinch of salt.
It's quite a damning claim by one poster, I would have certainly thought more would be backing this claim up and it would have been hit harder if it was as clear as Kerouac has made out.
Clearly Martin has got it wrong with regards to Fisher starting the play that leads to the goal but that's no reason to suggest that what Kerouac states is correct with that in mind.......nor does it mean because Martin brought up an interaction does it mean that what was claimed by Kerouac to be the truth.
I think most will have enough understanding and experience of these types of situations to just realise that without more coming out that it's likely not as clear as someone is posting on a football forum.
I know one or two who sit In that area behind the dugout and no one has mentioned anything to me so would suggest that nothing out of the ordinary happened......i could of course be wrong though. |
I find it very strange that the fourth official didn't get involved and bring it to the referee's attention.
Surely such behaviour is bringing the game into disrepute and worthy of a charge if it happens as Kerouac reported?
Also strange that Kerouac didn't claim it was his own version of what was said, but seems to infer this is word for word what was said and occurred?
Brilliant memory if so... |  |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:18 - Mar 2 with 622 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:15 - Mar 2 by STID2017 |
I find it very strange that the fourth official didn't get involved and bring it to the referee's attention.
Surely such behaviour is bringing the game into disrepute and worthy of a charge if it happens as Kerouac reported?
Also strange that Kerouac didn't claim it was his own version of what was said, but seems to infer this is word for word what was said and occurred?
Brilliant memory if so... |
He didn’t say word for word, he said “something like”, but insisted there was no abuse.
4th official stepping in for having a go at a fan? Since when has that been a thing? Or was it just made up on the spot to cover for the golden boy yet again, despite clearly unacceptable conduct.
You have avoided the question for a week now, are you now wanting Russ sacked? [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 23:19]
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:20 - Mar 2 with 605 views | STID2017 |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:11 - Mar 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
Nobody is claiming anything else though.
Martin also said it was someone shouting to take Fisher off and sarcastically clapping when he did something well.
I see nothing to suggest that it was anything other than that. The fact he was not thrown out and the supporters around him backed him says it all.
Appears to be more excuse making for ridiculous behaviour from the manager. |
Why didn't the fourth official intervene if Martin was so obviously bringing the game into disrepute ?
If Kerouac heard it all so clearly from his seat, surely the official did ? | |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:23 - Mar 2 with 601 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:20 - Mar 2 by STID2017 |
Why didn't the fourth official intervene if Martin was so obviously bringing the game into disrepute ?
If Kerouac heard it all so clearly from his seat, surely the official did ? |
You have just repeated the same thing I just responded to.
I’ve never heard of such a thing happening before, so unlikely it would happen in this instance. I’ve seen a few managers lose it and shout at fans, not once has the 4th official stepped in.
So just to be clear, are you suggesting Martin is lying and no such altercation took place? Awfully odd thing to bring up in a press conference if there was nothing, how did he know the fan was celebrating if he didn’t turn round to see who it was?
Come on now.
Also do you want him sacked? As I see you have criticised the owners for not sacking him… | |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:27 - Mar 2 with 599 views | STID2017 |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:18 - Mar 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
He didn’t say word for word, he said “something like”, but insisted there was no abuse.
4th official stepping in for having a go at a fan? Since when has that been a thing? Or was it just made up on the spot to cover for the golden boy yet again, despite clearly unacceptable conduct.
You have avoided the question for a week now, are you now wanting Russ sacked? [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 23:19]
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The only part he said was "something like" was the fan's opening attack on Martin.
After that everything is written as if word for word.
Perhaps Kerouac should have made it clearer that the whole report is his interpretation and not a verbatim report of what was said ? | |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:33 - Mar 2 with 595 views | STID2017 |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:18 - Mar 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
He didn’t say word for word, he said “something like”, but insisted there was no abuse.
4th official stepping in for having a go at a fan? Since when has that been a thing? Or was it just made up on the spot to cover for the golden boy yet again, despite clearly unacceptable conduct.
You have avoided the question for a week now, are you now wanting Russ sacked? [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 23:19]
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On the contrary, far from defending him, I would expect any manager or playing who uses foul or abusive language to a member of the public ( especially when there are children about ) to be reported by the fourth official, sent off and charges brought.
Just odd that didn't happen.
As Keith said though ( and I would trust his opinion over Kerouac) other versions of events abound. | |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:39 - Mar 2 with 585 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:33 - Mar 2 by STID2017 |
On the contrary, far from defending him, I would expect any manager or playing who uses foul or abusive language to a member of the public ( especially when there are children about ) to be reported by the fourth official, sent off and charges brought.
Just odd that didn't happen.
As Keith said though ( and I would trust his opinion over Kerouac) other versions of events abound. |
You would also expect any fan using such abusive language (which nobody has even accused him of) to be thrown out.
However I’ve never actually seen a manager be charged with that for saying “fk off”. It seems like it’s something you have made up on the spot.
Keith didn’t give an opinion, he said there are other versions. However this version not only is from an eye witness but is also mirrored by the manager who hasn’t once accused him of anything other than what was described in the post.
So whatever the other versions may be, won’t align with what the manager himself confirms.
You are swinging at shadows. [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 23:45]
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:43 - Mar 2 with 581 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:38 - Mar 2 by STID2017 |
Cowardly how ?
I have stated if he used abusive language then he should have been sent off.
As to his position at the club, one minute you say replace him , then you say to keep him until the end of the season.
I think you are confusing yourself.
Anyway back on point.
Why was he not sent off for such actions if it was done so openly ? |
Cowardly by refusing to say whether you want the manager sacked or not because you know it will make you look silly whatever your answer.
Managers swear every single game, stop kidding yourself. I’m yet to see one “sent off” for telling a fan to “fk off”. (Are we really going to ask and answer the same question there?”.
Timing is everything, absolutely no point in sacking him now. Ask me back in December when we had a window to work with from a competent manager and my answer would have been different - but his removal is absolutely something that needs to happen.
My question was do YOU want him sacked. You are yet to answer.
Wonder why. | |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:49 - Mar 2 with 578 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Send your complaints in to the 4th official and the FA, STID  [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 23:50]
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:54 - Mar 2 with 573 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:49 - Mar 2 by STID2017 |
In Kerouac's post he said ( referring to the stewsrds ) "... come over to tell the fan if he doesn't stop abusing Russell Martin he (and the children) will be thrown out."
So Martin and his staff clearly felt at the time he was being abused.
Based on Kerouac's own words.
Not condoning any bad language, if it was used by Martin.
However, as always, there are more than one version of the "truth" |
Giving someone “abuse” in football isn’t what it means in legal terms. “You are taking the piss” would qualify as “abuse” in football, it’s football vernacular. Saying “you are rubbish” constitutes as giving someone abuse.
Again, the manager has not once stated the fan did anything other than what the eye witness testifies on the post.
Yet you are “assuming” there must be even more to it because you cannot admit how inappropriate his behaviour was.
And still too scared to give your position on him. What are you afraid of? | |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 07:47 - Mar 3 with 479 views | Boundy |
Why is yet another thread ruined by it becoming a personal battle ,it's tiresome in the extreme | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 07:52 - Mar 3 with 478 views | magicdaps10 |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 23:15 - Mar 2 by STID2017 |
I find it very strange that the fourth official didn't get involved and bring it to the referee's attention.
Surely such behaviour is bringing the game into disrepute and worthy of a charge if it happens as Kerouac reported?
Also strange that Kerouac didn't claim it was his own version of what was said, but seems to infer this is word for word what was said and occurred?
Brilliant memory if so... |
Pinch of salt got to be taken with this one.
Not heard anything about this one being that bad only Kerouac version.......lets be fair, Kerouac isn't the most reliable as he has proven on here and it wouldn't take much for him to jump on anything bad towards Martin, again he has a record of this on this forum.
I am certainly not defending anyone here, I think as per quite a lot of things, what we have read from one poster shouldn't be classed as the actual fact especially considering no one else has said much regards the incident which would suggest to me that the incident wasn't that bad or as near to what Kerouac has explained.......surely more people would have heard and more talked about it would be.
I just think it's another person, another poster who has gripe with Martin trying to put the bad seed into a forum and into people's heads.........Martin needs no help with that as present as he is doing a good enough job himself in regards to planting the bad seed 🙈😬😂 | |
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| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 08:00 - Mar 3 with 471 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 🦢Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 07:52 - Mar 3 by magicdaps10 |
Pinch of salt got to be taken with this one.
Not heard anything about this one being that bad only Kerouac version.......lets be fair, Kerouac isn't the most reliable as he has proven on here and it wouldn't take much for him to jump on anything bad towards Martin, again he has a record of this on this forum.
I am certainly not defending anyone here, I think as per quite a lot of things, what we have read from one poster shouldn't be classed as the actual fact especially considering no one else has said much regards the incident which would suggest to me that the incident wasn't that bad or as near to what Kerouac has explained.......surely more people would have heard and more talked about it would be.
I just think it's another person, another poster who has gripe with Martin trying to put the bad seed into a forum and into people's heads.........Martin needs no help with that as present as he is doing a good enough job himself in regards to planting the bad seed 🙈😬😂 |
You do realise Martin has confirmed it, don’t you?
The only possible thing you could be suggesting is he didn’t tell the fan to “fk off”. Because everything else is confirmed on both sides.
So let’s look at the facts.
Fan shouting at Martin, Martin turns round (as he knew who it was as he confirmed) and you reckon he just said… nothing? Then we score, Martin turns around to him again (as confirmed by Martin) and again you reckon he just says… nothing again?
Come on now Daps. Your version makes no logical sense.
It’s as bad as described and I’m sure you are well aware. [Post edited 3 Mar 2023 8:02]
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