| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 10:52 - Oct 19 with 5458 views | ChaffRAFC |
Doesn't make for pleasant reading whatsoever. |  |
| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 12:15 - Oct 19 with 5324 views | SaxonDale |
‘ After all, reasoned Mr Delves in interview, the reference to hair and to skin could equally have been said to someone who was a different colour. ‘
Such a depressing read. |  | | |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 12:26 - Oct 19 with 5268 views | kel |
It’s awful seeing anybody lose their job but surely his position has become untenable after that. |  | | |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 13:04 - Oct 19 with 5166 views | Reedy |
Point 40 about Delves is disgusting. |  |
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| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 13:51 - Oct 19 with 4995 views | 49thseason |
If this had gone to a criminal court, the groundsman would have been fined on Band A, there was no physical harm, the situation is mostly heresay, statements from other groundstaff were not admitted because they were unavailable in person on the day of the hearing. Probable fine 50% of 1 weeks wages, maximum Band C 175% ... personally I would tell the FA to FO and refuse to pay the £2000, he would probably earn more being self - employed cutting lawns anyway. Rochdale Council was desperate for gardeners over the summer( I know because my long standing gardener sold his round and went contracting for RMBC.)
Isn't there usually a sign at the end of the tunnel before the game saying keep off the grass? |  | | |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 14:01 - Oct 19 with 4960 views | Rodingdale |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 13:04 - Oct 19 by Reedy |
Point 40 about Delves is disgusting. |
Indeed, GD appears to be attempting to defend the indefensible which makes it a club issue. I don’t know the case but presumably JH has been suspended given the nature of the evidence? | | | |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 14:46 - Oct 19 with 4853 views | Brierls |
What a tool. There's no excuse for that. There is no place for racism.
I don't think the club (who GD was speaking on behalf of) defence was particularly smart, but singling GD out for criticism is unfair. If you read that report and your only thought is to post about GD, you're a bellend. The issue here is the comments made by the groundsman. |  | | |
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| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 14:49 - Oct 19 with 4850 views | James1980 |
How many of our playing staff are BAME? | |
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| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 15:21 - Oct 19 with 4772 views | D_Alien |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 14:01 - Oct 19 by Rodingdale |
Indeed, GD appears to be attempting to defend the indefensible which makes it a club issue. I don’t know the case but presumably JH has been suspended given the nature of the evidence? |
Happen he's too distracted by trying to compile a proper register of shareholders, which he'd signally failed to do when the vote on the director's loan was being taken. |  |
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| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 15:36 - Oct 19 with 4718 views | Rodingdale |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 14:46 - Oct 19 by Brierls |
What a tool. There's no excuse for that. There is no place for racism.
I don't think the club (who GD was speaking on behalf of) defence was particularly smart, but singling GD out for criticism is unfair. If you read that report and your only thought is to post about GD, you're a bellend. The issue here is the comments made by the groundsman. |
Oh it wasn’t my only thought, far from it. But the grounds man is a junior member of staff, GD is the CEO - defending the indefensible- which implies to me we may have a cultural problem.
Referring to people in the way you do is offensive particularly when we’re discussing something so important. | | | |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 15:41 - Oct 19 with 4693 views | nordenblue |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 14:49 - Oct 19 by James1980 |
How many of our playing staff are BAME? |
What does that matter?
They're dealing with one specific person about one incident, who currently looks very much indefensible. | | | |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 16:02 - Oct 19 with 4651 views | James1980 |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 15:41 - Oct 19 by nordenblue |
What does that matter?
They're dealing with one specific person about one incident, who currently looks very much indefensible. |
Yes absolutely it is indefensible. They might not be happy to see how it had been handled. | |
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| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 17:01 - Oct 19 with 4483 views | nordenblue |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 16:02 - Oct 19 by James1980 |
Yes absolutely it is indefensible. They might not be happy to see how it had been handled. |
What else do you think the club should have done,prior to all this coming out? | | | |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 17:27 - Oct 19 with 4422 views | Rodingdale |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 17:01 - Oct 19 by nordenblue |
What else do you think the club should have done,prior to all this coming out? |
Suspend him immediately following the allegations, carry out internal investigation, in line with disciplinary policy. Action accordingly in line with discipline policy. In these circumstances if the complaint was upheld a range of options are available- similar to those set out by the FA. Frankly given what’s been reported by the complainant supported by witnesses- if an internal investigation found no case, I’d be very concerned. This is an HR matter, GD should be nowhere near it - apart from instructing Comms to issue a statement condemning racism and reiterating the club’s commitment to kick it out. [Post edited 19 Oct 2023 17:44]
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| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 18:55 - Oct 19 with 4238 views | Brierls |
Christ. They don’t help themselves. | | | |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 19:17 - Oct 19 with 4158 views | SuddenLad |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 14:01 - Oct 19 by Rodingdale |
Indeed, GD appears to be attempting to defend the indefensible which makes it a club issue. I don’t know the case but presumably JH has been suspended given the nature of the evidence? |
There are barristers up and down the country, every day of the week, defending the indefensible and trying offer mitigating arguments. It's their job, like it or not. GD was trying to do the same for a club employee, but the hand of cards he had to play with, weren't going to be much good.
Don't have a go at GD, He was in an impossible position but had to do his best to represent JH. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 19:27 - Oct 19 with 4135 views | judd |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 19:17 - Oct 19 by SuddenLad |
There are barristers up and down the country, every day of the week, defending the indefensible and trying offer mitigating arguments. It's their job, like it or not. GD was trying to do the same for a club employee, but the hand of cards he had to play with, weren't going to be much good.
Don't have a go at GD, He was in an impossible position but had to do his best to represent JH. |
Good point.
Am I the only one around here that thinks a description of shit hair, shit skin could be applied to anyone of any colour?
I think GD made a valid point, and maybe the report of the decision is limited in its interpretation of what GD was actually saying? |  |
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| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 19:28 - Oct 19 with 4129 views | Rodingdale |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 19:17 - Oct 19 by SuddenLad |
There are barristers up and down the country, every day of the week, defending the indefensible and trying offer mitigating arguments. It's their job, like it or not. GD was trying to do the same for a club employee, but the hand of cards he had to play with, weren't going to be much good.
Don't have a go at GD, He was in an impossible position but had to do his best to represent JH. |
Correct, but barristers and employers have very different responsibilities, legally. The RAFC (non) statement today is derisory. But I’m not remotely surprised.
Sky News just used the story as a link to their Sky kick it out initiative, with an interview with the CEO of Kick it out. No comment from RAFC. [Post edited 19 Oct 2023 20:14]
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| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 20:01 - Oct 19 with 4065 views | D_Alien |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 19:27 - Oct 19 by judd |
Good point.
Am I the only one around here that thinks a description of shit hair, shit skin could be applied to anyone of any colour?
I think GD made a valid point, and maybe the report of the decision is limited in its interpretation of what GD was actually saying? |
It certainly could be, but the remark is wide open for misinterpretation
Not sure why it had to be made in the first place; plain abuse at best, which leaves the club with an employee who's a liability in that regard | |
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| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 20:06 - Oct 19 with 4050 views | judd |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 20:01 - Oct 19 by D_Alien |
It certainly could be, but the remark is wide open for misinterpretation
Not sure why it had to be made in the first place; plain abuse at best, which leaves the club with an employee who's a liability in that regard |
The club witnesses not attending/ giving evidence is a killer for me. | |
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| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 23:49 - Oct 19 with 3742 views | 49thseason |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 20:06 - Oct 19 by judd |
The club witnesses not attending/ giving evidence is a killer for me. |
I imagine that was a stitch up Judd, if you write a statement or character reference and providing you sign it as a true record, a normal court will at least take it into consideration, I imagine thats what people who bothered to write statements thought would be the case. It looks to me that the hearing was making some of it up on the hoof and decided not to bother too much with the Dale side of the story.... after all you can hardly expect the FA not to look after the interests of Sky Sports ahead of those of a scruffy, struggling little non- League club could you? Saying that the statements were not applicable because the people who made them couldn't be cross examined is a nonsense and a breach of what you might describe as natural justice. They took time to make their views known, they should have been heard. | | | |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 06:11 - Oct 20 with 3660 views | D_Alien |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 23:49 - Oct 19 by 49thseason |
I imagine that was a stitch up Judd, if you write a statement or character reference and providing you sign it as a true record, a normal court will at least take it into consideration, I imagine thats what people who bothered to write statements thought would be the case. It looks to me that the hearing was making some of it up on the hoof and decided not to bother too much with the Dale side of the story.... after all you can hardly expect the FA not to look after the interests of Sky Sports ahead of those of a scruffy, struggling little non- League club could you? Saying that the statements were not applicable because the people who made them couldn't be cross examined is a nonsense and a breach of what you might describe as natural justice. They took time to make their views known, they should have been heard. |
You're "imagining" a hell of a lot there
Leaving aside any potential racial angle, a visiting guest going about their work has a right to be treated with courtesy, not subject to frankly embarrassing personal abuse that puts the club firmly in the "scruffy" light you suggest is being used against us | |
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| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 08:43 - Oct 20 with 3537 views | dalemark |
| Dale's Groundsman sanctioned and suspended. on 23:49 - Oct 19 by 49thseason |
I imagine that was a stitch up Judd, if you write a statement or character reference and providing you sign it as a true record, a normal court will at least take it into consideration, I imagine thats what people who bothered to write statements thought would be the case. It looks to me that the hearing was making some of it up on the hoof and decided not to bother too much with the Dale side of the story.... after all you can hardly expect the FA not to look after the interests of Sky Sports ahead of those of a scruffy, struggling little non- League club could you? Saying that the statements were not applicable because the people who made them couldn't be cross examined is a nonsense and a breach of what you might describe as natural justice. They took time to make their views known, they should have been heard. |
38.4 "It is noted that none of the witnesses relied upon by Mr Haigh, in particular the two other groundsmen, were called by Mr Haigh to give oral evidence so that their accounts might be tested; "
I don't think it can be classed as a stitch up when the decision not to bring the witnesses to the hearing was down to the defendant. |  | | |
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