| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way 09:55 - Nov 2 with 5585 views | RochdaleAFC.com |
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| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 11:31 - Nov 2 with 3346 views | beat_the_bishop |
A good read and a very fair assessment.
I got to the end and concluded I don’t believe they have the courage to make the move and replace him.
They will argue September is what we are capable of (points over performance of course). The fans argue August and October is what we actually are (points reflect that view).
I could understand if we have had to backfill injury’s with youth players. But we have done the opposite. He’s been backed beyond any manager I can ever recall in my time? In preseason I was of the opinion that 5 marquee signings was enough to move us forwards. 17 signings later and I am yet to see any of them really excel (those that have played).
The gaps between the lines and the amount of shots the opposition are allowed to take from the edge of our box is frightening. It’s disjointed from front to back. And that’s not personnel. It’s the set up first and foremost. His selections are contributing factors.
One thing I would like to point out is South Shields are top of NLN as we discuss this. So was he actually good at his job? Or is that team just good for that level? Mike Williamson has hardly pulled up trees anywhere he’s been since the Gateshead years. And yet he’s now got them top of the league after Watsons departure? Ironically, probably very little change in personnel and system. Familiarity for the squad that remained while the management transition happened. One would say maybe we needed the same?
I’ve zoned out of Ian Watson now. Struggle to listen to his interviews because it’s clouded by the same deflection and tone. He’s punching way above his level, learning on the job and no doubt a top coach and evidently a nice man. But it’s not what we needed at this stage of our journey.
Who would take us on now? The three names mentioned will probably be thinking if I sit this out another month… a better opportunity will arise. We have a huge squad, half of it on the treatment table, a third of it nowhere near the standard expected. I see no option other than radical changes in January too with atleast 5 departures.
Sherring, Wilson, Adeeko, Waller, Ramming, Rodney, Francis, TAR, Kane Taylor and Silcott-D could all leave tomorrow for me. There is better players at this level than those, and I’m being generous to some of the others. But we are weaker than this time last year and that is absolutely criminal given the money he’s had. [Post edited 2 Nov 11:35]
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| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 11:48 - Nov 2 with 3279 views | tony_roch975 |
Absolutely. I guess most fans would agree with the analysis of the problems but not necessarily the praise of the McNulty-type solution (which I share) - "Not only did his sides aim to control games by controlling those distances, but he also understood that before you can build a successful team, you have to build a collective".
Many of those whose recent loss of faith you cite are the same fans who couldn't wait to replace 'boring' McNulty with exciting Klopp-style Ian Watson. Watson came in and dismantled the formation and personnel which was the very basis of that success.
Grass greener, what you wish for etc! [Post edited 2 Nov 11:52]
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| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 11:56 - Nov 2 with 3223 views | D_Alien |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 11:31 - Nov 2 by beat_the_bishop |
A good read and a very fair assessment.
I got to the end and concluded I don’t believe they have the courage to make the move and replace him.
They will argue September is what we are capable of (points over performance of course). The fans argue August and October is what we actually are (points reflect that view).
I could understand if we have had to backfill injury’s with youth players. But we have done the opposite. He’s been backed beyond any manager I can ever recall in my time? In preseason I was of the opinion that 5 marquee signings was enough to move us forwards. 17 signings later and I am yet to see any of them really excel (those that have played).
The gaps between the lines and the amount of shots the opposition are allowed to take from the edge of our box is frightening. It’s disjointed from front to back. And that’s not personnel. It’s the set up first and foremost. His selections are contributing factors.
One thing I would like to point out is South Shields are top of NLN as we discuss this. So was he actually good at his job? Or is that team just good for that level? Mike Williamson has hardly pulled up trees anywhere he’s been since the Gateshead years. And yet he’s now got them top of the league after Watsons departure? Ironically, probably very little change in personnel and system. Familiarity for the squad that remained while the management transition happened. One would say maybe we needed the same?
I’ve zoned out of Ian Watson now. Struggle to listen to his interviews because it’s clouded by the same deflection and tone. He’s punching way above his level, learning on the job and no doubt a top coach and evidently a nice man. But it’s not what we needed at this stage of our journey.
Who would take us on now? The three names mentioned will probably be thinking if I sit this out another month… a better opportunity will arise. We have a huge squad, half of it on the treatment table, a third of it nowhere near the standard expected. I see no option other than radical changes in January too with atleast 5 departures.
Sherring, Wilson, Adeeko, Waller, Ramming, Rodney, Francis, TAR, Kane Taylor and Silcott-D could all leave tomorrow for me. There is better players at this level than those, and I’m being generous to some of the others. But we are weaker than this time last year and that is absolutely criminal given the money he’s had. [Post edited 2 Nov 11:35]
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In wondering whether the board have the courage to make a decision, what you mean is... make the change
Fitz (fine analysis) makes the point that the board need to actively support Watson if they're not going to change
To both points, i'll add a potential weakness built into the helm of the club, and i've referred to it before: the joint-Chairmanship. You can see why the Ogdens, with next to no experience of the football world wanted to keep Gauge in a position where his shares and travails prior to their arrival counted for something. In effect, what it does is create a distance, yes: the kind of distance we see between players on the pitch, mirrored in the boardroom. The intentions are great, the actuality, not so
This isn't about those individuals either, since i have huge respect and admiration for the work Cameron Ogden, on behalf of his family, is doing both within the club and in the wider community. I've respect for Simon Gauge too; without his input, we almost certainly wouldn't be here now. He was subject to dog's (literally) abuse, whilst putting a considerable amount of his family's wealth into keeping us afloat until it became unsustainable
It was great to see them both share the plaudits at Wembley, in among the manager, players and with the fans. But Gauge, even though he says he's learnt a lot, remains relatively inexperienced; add that to the decision-making process and it's a recipe for having no solid process with split accountability, however much a show of togetherness might be put forward
Where does this leave us right now? I too suspect the board will stick rather than twist, and it's a good point about those names who're available maybe biding their time. Even if they've been approached, they'd be looking at an unbalanced, unfit squad with a crucial window looming. If the board do make the change, now would appear to be the most opportune time as Fitz argues. But... whose decision will it be? A single chairman making that decision would be far and away the better option. It's the Ogden's money at stake, but Gauge's decision, and is he setting the process? Not the best recipe for clarity. I think, in the aftermath of all this, another decision has to be made, by the Ogdens, about the chairmanship
[Post edited 2 Nov 12:03]
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| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 16:52 - Nov 2 with 2555 views | YouTubeDale |
I agree with Fitz that now is the time to act decisively and save the club from relegation. The weaknesses are plain to see and I feel that a new experienced manager will install a new belief and more confidence in the players. Yes it will cost the Ogdens money but put against a relegation it will be money well spent. Watson has shown us what he can't do. Time to move on, and the time is now.
Thanks Chris for crystallising the thoughts of many. [Post edited 2 Nov 16:54]
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| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 21:06 - Nov 3 with 1730 views | Rodingdale |
Feels like free falling with no parachute now. If the board are giving him the benefit of the doubt, we are just wasting this fortnight, where we could be getting a new manager in to get back to basics, before York (h). Watson is out of his depth. | | | |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 21:17 - Nov 3 with 1630 views | 442Dale |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 21:06 - Nov 3 by Rodingdale |
Feels like free falling with no parachute now. If the board are giving him the benefit of the doubt, we are just wasting this fortnight, where we could be getting a new manager in to get back to basics, before York (h). Watson is out of his depth. |
That second half was so alarming that you’d have to think the board are considering their options.
Whoever our manager is, we’ve learnt that having a clear, recognisable structure where all the players know their roles is a must. Talk of playing expansive, quick football that’s exciting to watch is secondary to getting results in a manner that makes sense.
Getting back to controlling the football will lead to controlling games. We know what works. |  |
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| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 21:26 - Nov 3 with 1546 views | Mampiman |
Give him till Christmas to get things going again. It’s a long old season and we’re not deep in the hole yet. I do think there’s some fitness issues behind the scenes that need addressing ASAP | | | |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 21:32 - Nov 3 with 1491 views | mikehunt |
Not deep in the hole? Really?! |  |
| The worm of time turns not for the cuckoo of circumstance. |
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| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 21:55 - Nov 3 with 1356 views | JimmyRustler |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 21:26 - Nov 3 by Mampiman |
Give him till Christmas to get things going again. It’s a long old season and we’re not deep in the hole yet. I do think there’s some fitness issues behind the scenes that need addressing ASAP |
First post? |  | | |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 21:57 - Nov 3 with 1340 views | nordenblue |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 21:26 - Nov 3 by Mampiman |
Give him till Christmas to get things going again. It’s a long old season and we’re not deep in the hole yet. I do think there’s some fitness issues behind the scenes that need addressing ASAP |
Id probably say the injuries and the reasoning behind such an amount needs looking at at some point.... | | | |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 23:09 - Nov 3 with 1114 views | Edindale |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 21:26 - Nov 3 by Mampiman |
Give him till Christmas to get things going again. It’s a long old season and we’re not deep in the hole yet. I do think there’s some fitness issues behind the scenes that need addressing ASAP |
We are in a hole with performances tailing off badly.
If the decision is to keep IW until Xmas then he needs a clear target. If we are complacent it will cost us in terms of breathing space. | | | |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 07:38 - Nov 4 with 783 views | Nigeriamark |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 23:09 - Nov 3 by Edindale |
We are in a hole with performances tailing off badly.
If the decision is to keep IW until Xmas then he needs a clear target. If we are complacent it will cost us in terms of breathing space. |
Although they may not make it public, I think the Management may assess internally at the end of this month, and start to unnoficialy approach managers if we have a poor November
It is possible that York & Barnet could really thump us at home, and Northampton should be there as a potential away win in the same way Port Vale were !! Our only other game is the FA cup on Saturday which is huge for IW as a cup run/win always creates some positivity. Lose on Saturday and the pressure ramps up. I would be happy to give him November but then re-assess if results and the manner of play continue as is. If we change, then a new man gets the opportunity to assess in December and have a transfer window to add if necessary. The worry is that if players in depends on players leaving, who could we offload even on a free given current form & injuries? |  | | |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 08:57 - Nov 4 with 615 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 07:38 - Nov 4 by Nigeriamark |
Although they may not make it public, I think the Management may assess internally at the end of this month, and start to unnoficialy approach managers if we have a poor November
It is possible that York & Barnet could really thump us at home, and Northampton should be there as a potential away win in the same way Port Vale were !! Our only other game is the FA cup on Saturday which is huge for IW as a cup run/win always creates some positivity. Lose on Saturday and the pressure ramps up. I would be happy to give him November but then re-assess if results and the manner of play continue as is. If we change, then a new man gets the opportunity to assess in December and have a transfer window to add if necessary. The worry is that if players in depends on players leaving, who could we offload even on a free given current form & injuries? |
Don’t think we can afford to wait until next month Mark. IMO the Fleetwood game is largely irrelevant now after recent results, we need a change immediately to give a new manager 7-8 days to look at what we’ve got & make whatever changes he sees fit, obviously we are struggling with injuries but the priority must be to make us much harder to play against. |  | | |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 17:38 - Nov 4 with 0 views | dale4ever |
The signs have been there since pre-season, this is Watsons overall record including friendlies, and it makes grim reading:
• Played: 23
• Wins: 4
• Draws: 7
• Losses: 12
• Goals for: 30
• Goals against: 52
• GD: –22
He has to go. | | | |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 22:46 - Nov 4 with 0 views | ProudDale |
What is the strong evidence from those who want to keep the status quo that waiting until Christmas is sound?
IW has had a lot of games to get this right, and lots of opportunities to turn round the ship. Yes we had a few good results in September, but how many of those games did we deserve to win, or was it a case of our opponents not taking their chances? He now should know the squad very well (a fair excuse pre-season and for the first few games given all the new recruits), and still doesn't make the blindingly obvious changes either in game or to the starting team sheet.
He seems a very passive manager, who seems to be struggling to get the best out of the players. If the players were all giving 100% that would at least be something, whatever you think of his tactics, but even that's not been apparent recently, .
The "grass is always greener" argument was a fair one during Jim's tenure, when defending the turgid but successful football, but we're not even seeing entertaining football at the moment. Its hard to believe any of the 3 managers mentioned will get us any fewer points if they come in now, and they'll at least be totally up to speed with what changes are needed come the opening of the transfer window. | | | |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 22:56 - Nov 4 with 0 views | dingdangblue |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 22:46 - Nov 4 by ProudDale |
What is the strong evidence from those who want to keep the status quo that waiting until Christmas is sound?
IW has had a lot of games to get this right, and lots of opportunities to turn round the ship. Yes we had a few good results in September, but how many of those games did we deserve to win, or was it a case of our opponents not taking their chances? He now should know the squad very well (a fair excuse pre-season and for the first few games given all the new recruits), and still doesn't make the blindingly obvious changes either in game or to the starting team sheet.
He seems a very passive manager, who seems to be struggling to get the best out of the players. If the players were all giving 100% that would at least be something, whatever you think of his tactics, but even that's not been apparent recently, .
The "grass is always greener" argument was a fair one during Jim's tenure, when defending the turgid but successful football, but we're not even seeing entertaining football at the moment. Its hard to believe any of the 3 managers mentioned will get us any fewer points if they come in now, and they'll at least be totally up to speed with what changes are needed come the opening of the transfer window. |
I mean I would love it if we went hard after Stuart Maynard - I think he would make us tougher to beat quite quickly. The only worry is he's seen how well Jim is doing in League 1 and thinks he could easily do as well and will wait for a League 1 club to come available. |  |
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| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 23:02 - Nov 4 with 0 views | 442Dale |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 22:56 - Nov 4 by dingdangblue |
I mean I would love it if we went hard after Stuart Maynard - I think he would make us tougher to beat quite quickly. The only worry is he's seen how well Jim is doing in League 1 and thinks he could easily do as well and will wait for a League 1 club to come available. |
That’s a good call. The similarities between how the two set up and identified a way to win games was obvious. The difference in the two sides was that York’s greater potency in attack meant they could get the ball into the box earlier having two targets rather than one. That Maynard has visible evidence of that way of playing converting successfully further up the pyramid may indeed influence his next choice of club. | |
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| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 09:13 - Nov 5 with 0 views | beat_the_bishop |
If he was going he would be gone by now.
Zero Dale fans have got FA Cup fever and I’ll be surprised if it’s any more than 400 who travel.
York will come and give us a pasting in front of a full away end and we move into the bottom 2. The board react, we then lose our following four matches while we find a replacement, new man comes in and we celebrate our first point circa 6 weeks from now at home to Bristol Rovers.
Up the Dale. [Post edited 5 Nov 11:52]
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| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 10:34 - Nov 5 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 09:13 - Nov 5 by beat_the_bishop |
If he was going he would be gone by now.
Zero Dale fans have got FA Cup fever and I’ll be surprised if it’s any more than 400 who travel.
York will come and give us a pasting in front of a full away end and we move into the bottom 2. The board react, we then lose our following four matches while we find a replacement, new man comes in and we celebrate our first point circa 6 weeks from now at home to Bristol Rovers.
Up the Dale. [Post edited 5 Nov 11:52]
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The Fleetwood tie will be a good marker, since we've won there recently
Cup games tend to be less cagey, if anything, and Fleetwood turning Arsenal over adds another twist
Can't find any reason your scenario won't play out | |
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| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 12:21 - Nov 5 with 0 views | EllDale |
Karl Robinson has just been appointed as manager of Bromley. | | | |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 13:30 - Nov 5 with 0 views | davidab2202 |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 22:56 - Nov 4 by dingdangblue |
I mean I would love it if we went hard after Stuart Maynard - I think he would make us tougher to beat quite quickly. The only worry is he's seen how well Jim is doing in League 1 and thinks he could easily do as well and will wait for a League 1 club to come available. |
I think that Ihave read somewhere that Maynard was set to take over at Scunthorpe | | | |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 14:59 - Nov 5 with 0 views | dingdangblue |
| Rochdale must act on Ian Watson either way on 13:30 - Nov 5 by davidab2202 |
I think that Ihave read somewhere that Maynard was set to take over at Scunthorpe |
Well he's been linked and he's 2/1 favourite but that doesn't mean much. I would think after last seasons exploits he'd have his ambitions higher than another National League side - I'd certainly be talking to him or his agent - I just hope we don't drag on the inevitable like we did with Steve Eyre. | |
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