| Smithies to Cardiff 20:06 - Jun 25 with 48416 views | Maggsinho |
£4m apparently.
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| Smithies to Cardiff on 17:46 - Jun 26 with 3996 views | Tonto |
we should also remeber that trasnfer fees are complicate dbeasts these days. rarley is the quoted figure te full one, there could be adds ons if he plays for england or 100 games, plus sell on fees etc. It may end up being north of £4M |  |
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| Smithies to Cardiff on 17:47 - Jun 26 with 3994 views | qpr1976 |
Will be a big loss.
No mention so far here but will Huddersfield get any of that £4m ?
As we’ve apparently accepted the initial £4m bid, it suggests there is a release clause.
Personally, I hope Lumley is preferred to Ingram, but whoever gets the nod will need to raise their game to reach Smithies level. IMO |  | | |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 17:49 - Jun 26 with 3977 views | rsonist |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 17:19 - Jun 26 by RBlock |
Starting negotiations with a strong hand then. |
Yeah I'm still trying to come to terms with that bit....
I mean not to overreact but if it isn't a firesale then... what is it? [Post edited 26 Jun 2018 17:51]
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| Smithies to Cardiff on 18:05 - Jun 26 with 3909 views | qprd |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 17:49 - Jun 26 by rsonist |
Yeah I'm still trying to come to terms with that bit....
I mean not to overreact but if it isn't a firesale then... what is it? [Post edited 26 Jun 2018 17:51]
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There's no such thing as a firesale in the top 2 divisions of English football.
Even if a team is skint and absolutely desperate to make financial ends meet, a team will never have to accept cheaper than market terms so long as there is more than 1 bidder. so if aston villa suddenly has to sell grealish, if there's at least 2 teams bidding for him, hes going to go at his market price (no matter how desperate villa might be to sell).
smithies was an excellent keeper. but ultimately, most teams in the championship don't want to dish out serious cash for a keeper. and while smithies is really good, he has no premier league experience, so hes a gamble at that level. is he even going to be cardiffs #1? 6,7m is a lot to pay for a keeper, when there are guys like lee grant, tim krul etc always available to be a 1.5 choice keeper
the market ultimately spoke as to what smithies was worth. smithies was better in 16/17 than 17/18, and as far as dave mac reported, I don't think we had any offers come in for him in that time. clearly qpr fans see something in him that others aren't
losing smithies hurts, but think we're going to be in good shape with the guys we have | | | |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 18:17 - Jun 26 with 3857 views | Northernr |
Well you sell one player for £4m and you go out and buy four more in positions we're weak in and that's not a fire sale. That's what we should be doing (although, again, I think Smithies should be more than that) and need to do etc etc said it all before.
You sell Smithies and Luongo and Freeman all at once and all for less than we would think they're worth and that's a fire sale. |  | | |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 18:27 - Jun 26 with 3807 views | joolsyp |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 18:05 - Jun 26 by qprd |
There's no such thing as a firesale in the top 2 divisions of English football.
Even if a team is skint and absolutely desperate to make financial ends meet, a team will never have to accept cheaper than market terms so long as there is more than 1 bidder. so if aston villa suddenly has to sell grealish, if there's at least 2 teams bidding for him, hes going to go at his market price (no matter how desperate villa might be to sell).
smithies was an excellent keeper. but ultimately, most teams in the championship don't want to dish out serious cash for a keeper. and while smithies is really good, he has no premier league experience, so hes a gamble at that level. is he even going to be cardiffs #1? 6,7m is a lot to pay for a keeper, when there are guys like lee grant, tim krul etc always available to be a 1.5 choice keeper
the market ultimately spoke as to what smithies was worth. smithies was better in 16/17 than 17/18, and as far as dave mac reported, I don't think we had any offers come in for him in that time. clearly qpr fans see something in him that others aren't
losing smithies hurts, but think we're going to be in good shape with the guys we have |
Sensible post. But sadly, at the moment at least, I think neither Lumley nor Ingram are in the same class as Smithies. It's a big gamble. |  | | |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 18:32 - Jun 26 with 3789 views | VancouverHoop |
Analytics theory from 'The Economist' as to why goalkeepers are underpriced
https://www.economist.com/game-theory/2018/02/09/why-footballs-goalkeepers-are-c
Non-analytically it's also true that, compared to other position-players goalkeepers aren't very versatile. They can only play one position, but a full-back can be turned into centre-back, or even a mid-fielder, and so on. This also, potentially affects their value. | | | |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 18:42 - Jun 26 with 3754 views | qprd |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 18:32 - Jun 26 by VancouverHoop |
Analytics theory from 'The Economist' as to why goalkeepers are underpriced
https://www.economist.com/game-theory/2018/02/09/why-footballs-goalkeepers-are-c
Non-analytically it's also true that, compared to other position-players goalkeepers aren't very versatile. They can only play one position, but a full-back can be turned into centre-back, or even a mid-fielder, and so on. This also, potentially affects their value. |
ball playing keepers are definitely very hard to find and definitely very very valuable... someone like neuer totally changes the way you play, and there a handful of keepers in the world with that skillset
but purely shot stopping keepers are also much cheaper to replace
you lose Charlie Austin or diego costa, and you need to spend a lot to find a replacement who can produce the same output
you lose jack butland and lee grant comes in and does well, or nick pope steps in for tom heaton.... the drop offs from a #1 to a #2 don't feel as steep, and #2s are relatively inexpensive | | | |
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| Smithies to Cardiff on 18:51 - Jun 26 with 3739 views | rsonist |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 18:17 - Jun 26 by Northernr |
Well you sell one player for £4m and you go out and buy four more in positions we're weak in and that's not a fire sale. That's what we should be doing (although, again, I think Smithies should be more than that) and need to do etc etc said it all before.
You sell Smithies and Luongo and Freeman all at once and all for less than we would think they're worth and that's a fire sale. |
OK fire sale is a bit strong but going round clubs panhandling and seemingly not even negotiating with a bidder who's made their interest clear months ago and was giving £6m to a totally skint Bolton for Gary Madine even before they won the promotion jackpot? Unseemly to me.
Like I said, selling Smithies is justifiable given our unusual keeper situation but none how this is going down is suggesting that we'll suddenly start playing the game properly if lowball bids come in for our outfield players. Guess we'll find out soon enough. | | | |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 22:13 - Jun 26 with 3297 views | BasingstokeR |
Now reading its £3m rising by £550k if Cardiff stay up...  |  | | |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 22:16 - Jun 26 with 3282 views | oldmisery |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 22:13 - Jun 26 by BasingstokeR |
Now reading its £3m rising by £550k if Cardiff stay up... |
We'll be paying them to take him away at this rate! | | | |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 22:28 - Jun 26 with 3238 views | onlyrinmoray |
How depressing is this ? Our best player is sold for £4million to the only club interested With 2 years on his contract to go ...Shows how far weve dropped over the past few years Previous big sale was £4 million for Charlie We really do seem to be an easy touch Either that or we supporters are a deluded bunch |  | | |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 22:37 - Jun 26 with 3208 views | jonno |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 22:28 - Jun 26 by onlyrinmoray |
How depressing is this ? Our best player is sold for £4million to the only club interested With 2 years on his contract to go ...Shows how far weve dropped over the past few years Previous big sale was £4 million for Charlie We really do seem to be an easy touch Either that or we supporters are a deluded bunch |
Err....the Club has no money and is probably hampered by FFP stipulations as well. The only way they can replace the players who have already left in positions where we are now weak is to sell players in positions where we are relatively strong. That means the goalkeeper, who almost certainly will have a release fee in his contract when he extended it. All a buying club has to do is offer that release fee. At least this way there is some money coming in. Clearly the figure is lower than the players worth, but we would have had to agree it or the player would not have extended his contract and we would have had no Smithies last season and no money for him now. |  | | |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 22:40 - Jun 26 with 3200 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Unpopular QPR opinion alert:
I think Smithies is mustard, but i've often thought there must be a reason he's got to the age of 29 without playing in the Premiership.
Maybe there are deficiencies in his game that non coach like the majority of us hasn't noticed.
Just saying. |  | | |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 22:42 - Jun 26 with 3191 views | aston_hoop |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 22:40 - Jun 26 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Unpopular QPR opinion alert:
I think Smithies is mustard, but i've often thought there must be a reason he's got to the age of 29 without playing in the Premiership.
Maybe there are deficiencies in his game that non coach like the majority of us hasn't noticed.
Just saying. |
If there is, he has obviously been saving those deficiencies for the training ground! |  |
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| Smithies to Cardiff on 22:47 - Jun 26 with 3169 views | TacticalR |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 11:02 - Jun 26 by ngbqpr |
90 odd posts.
Approx 80% of them speculating then judging. |
I thought that was the whole point of message boards. |  |
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| Smithies to Cardiff on 23:44 - Jun 26 with 3050 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 22:42 - Jun 26 by aston_hoop |
If there is, he has obviously been saving those deficiencies for the training ground! |
I think my post is just a bit of self consolation to be honest. | | | |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 00:25 - Jun 27 with 2991 views | Myke |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 18:17 - Jun 26 by Northernr |
Well you sell one player for £4m and you go out and buy four more in positions we're weak in and that's not a fire sale. That's what we should be doing (although, again, I think Smithies should be more than that) and need to do etc etc said it all before.
You sell Smithies and Luongo and Freeman all at once and all for less than we would think they're worth and that's a fire sale. |
I think the key phrase here Clive is 'for less than we would think they are worth" We are an emotional bunch and overrate/underrate our players on a game-by game- basis. Smithies is a fine keeper, but he was a fine keeper before he arrived and we still only paid 750k/1m/2m depending on what you believe. No-one complained then at how low the price was, because we had notions of being 'bigger' than Huddersfield (that worked out well then). The reality is that England have had goalkeeping issues for years and Smithies never got a sniff under various different managers. You can argue about cronyism or even nepotism when goalkeepers we perceive as weaker than Smithies have made England squads but they have and he hasn't. He is a lower championship goalkeeper with no prem experience - it's a decent price.
Similarly with Luongo, Australia have just exited the WC, were generally quite poor, finished with 1 point, yet he didn't get a single minute of game time. Yet some of the messages on here suggest he is worth 12/15m. Unlike Smithies we HAVE improved Luongo in the time he has been here. (Smithies improved himself - he had lots of practice), and for this we deserve to be compensated. The money Leicester paid for Maddison is a joke and does strengthen our position slightly in terms of valuation, but I expect him to leave for about 4/5m. Again, as has been stated ad nauseum, if this money is invested in areas where we are weak (and central midfield is not one of them) then it will be a good deal all round. | | | |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 01:01 - Jun 27 with 2970 views | WilloW4 |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 18:17 - Jun 26 by Northernr |
Well you sell one player for £4m and you go out and buy four more in positions we're weak in and that's not a fire sale. That's what we should be doing (although, again, I think Smithies should be more than that) and need to do etc etc said it all before.
You sell Smithies and Luongo and Freeman all at once and all for less than we would think they're worth and that's a fire sale. |
I understand that logic totally.... But I'd sell the ovverated Louongo for any profit..do not understand the 'love in' for the bloke....josh Scowen all day long for me. |  | | |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 07:32 - Jun 27 with 2789 views | PunteR |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 01:01 - Jun 27 by WilloW4 |
I understand that logic totally.... But I'd sell the ovverated Louongo for any profit..do not understand the 'love in' for the bloke....josh Scowen all day long for me. |
I know they play in different positions but if it was a case of just raising funds then i would sell Loungo ahead of Smithies only because his position can be covered as we've plenty of midfielders. I rate Luongo though. Id rather him, where we've watched him progress from a L1 player to a decent championship player to players like Leroy Fer or Tozer , Mbia in that position on triple Luongos money and half his effort. |  |
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| Smithies to Cardiff on 07:53 - Jun 27 with 2737 views | Marc |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 22:13 - Jun 26 by BasingstokeR |
Now reading its £3m rising by £550k if Cardiff stay up... |
Those banging the release clause drum really need to stop now. You meet a release clause in full, not by way of paying add ons. Time to put that theory to bed. |  | | |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 08:08 - Jun 27 with 2699 views | Esox_Lucius |
Is SportPeteO one of those paid(by agents?) to spread rumours about to test the waters etc. ? We have seen how FB gets inundated with teams of paid opinion makers to influence anyone reading comments etc. This whole concept of fake news is moving to another level and that recent article about a team of people working 24/7 editing articles on Wiki to suit a particular political stance was a real eye opener. A similar example is https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/08/wikipedia-editors-for-pay/3
which shows it moving into the medical field. Would a similar enterprise in the mega millions world of football be such a stretch? |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Smithies to Cardiff on 08:28 - Jun 27 with 2651 views | qprd |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 08:08 - Jun 27 by Esox_Lucius |
Is SportPeteO one of those paid(by agents?) to spread rumours about to test the waters etc. ? We have seen how FB gets inundated with teams of paid opinion makers to influence anyone reading comments etc. This whole concept of fake news is moving to another level and that recent article about a team of people working 24/7 editing articles on Wiki to suit a particular political stance was a real eye opener. A similar example is https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/08/wikipedia-editors-for-pay/3
which shows it moving into the medical field. Would a similar enterprise in the mega millions world of football be such a stretch? |
If an agent was trying to drum up interest in his player and get a more expensive transfer move, why would he undercut that players perceived value and link him to the most crap team in the prem?
if the rumors were that he was getting sold to Liverpool for 12m, maybe. but 4m to Cardiff? if that's the case, smithies needs a new agent | | | |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 08:50 - Jun 27 with 2595 views | Blue_Castello |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 07:53 - Jun 27 by Marc |
Those banging the release clause drum really need to stop now. You meet a release clause in full, not by way of paying add ons. Time to put that theory to bed. |
Agreed BUT that all depends on whether this current piece of so called latest news is correct, there are too many people out there on the internet trying to make a name for themselves with the hot off the press scoop. For example somebody wants to make a name for himself posts on a message board and this is then picked up by one of those tedious "clickbait" websites as fact, next minute everybody believes it's factual.
Will we ever know the exact details of the deal, highly unlikely as it will be undisclosed, the only fact that I am sure of is that Lee Hoos is incredibly good at running a football club and he will have got the best deal possible under the circumstances. As Clive keeps alluding to there are obviously restrictions on the club with FFP, written or unwritten and when Holloway said last season the bomb had gone off he was referring to the finances and the restrictions possibly voluntary that now existed.
Like everybody else I still think Smithies is worth 6-8 in today's market but we do have cover he is our most saleable asset and our greatest need is money to reinforce the defence. | | | |
| Smithies to Cardiff on 08:56 - Jun 27 with 2573 views | derbyhoop |
He's 28 , he's never played in the Premiership and, as far as we know, the only bid we've had is from newly promoted Cardiff. Time to get real, folks.
We are, of necessity, a selling club, and it is almost certainly the best fee we can get. For Alex, it is a chance to play in the top flight and show the people who only watch the PL that there are good keepers in the Championship.
In Ingram and Lumley we have cover. It will be interesting to see which one becomes first choice. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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