| Well done government 22:18 - Mar 20 with 12025 views | Thacks_Rabbits |
Regardless of the political view the shutting of pubs cafes etc and the 80% payment for those off work, whilst costly as hell is a very proactive action, one that I don’t know of anyone else doing.
Think we should applaud that, regardless of other flaws
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| Well done government on 12:13 - Apr 19 with 1296 views | D_Alien |
| Well done government on 11:24 - Apr 19 by mingthemerciless |
The part of the other story I find concerning but not altogether surprising - " The lock down may continue for 12 months for the vulnerable and over 70's." That has implications for attendances at our sporting clubs , both Dale and Hornets. As far as I can see both clubs have a fair amount of fans in that category. |
Absolutely ming - but that's all it is, a story - a journalist's piece which they're paid to produce and make as comment-worthy as possible; and as per the BBC interview with Michael Gove this morning, there have been no decisions taken yet. That may also be a 'story' of course (a tory story, before anyone else gets that one in) |  |
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| Well done government on 12:48 - Apr 19 with 1244 views | Nigeriamark |
| Well done government on 11:21 - Apr 19 by rochdaleriddler |
As you know I subscribe to the Times, and yes there are a variety of different angles on many stories. You cannot just put this article down to people having agendas to suit your narrative. It’s journalism , proper stuff , not just pro government propaganda. Criticism of government action or inaction is right and proper , and without it I’m not sure Care Home staff and residents would be as high on the agenda, as they appear to have been forgotten until recently. It’s not party political, it’s Political. There is a difference
Edit. Macron has at least acknowledged mistakes [Post edited 19 Apr 2020 11:22]
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Good article and thanks for posting it ( I assume copy & paste rather than typing yourself!!). As someone with no interest in politics for the last 50 years I don't see this article as Tory v Labour. It would have been the same whoever won the last election. The simple fact is we weren't prepared and you can't just magic up vaccines, testing kits and protective clothing just because the opposition are giving you pressure.
I stand to be corrected as to if it is politivcal or not but the only way I can see it being so is if 1 party definitely has all the answers & the other doesn't. Its all right the Labour leader asking the Tory leader to come up with a detailed exit plan, but why doesn't he also come up with one as well so that they can be put side by side and we can take the best of both? If he says the level of testing is 80,000 too low then if he knows where to get these extra tests from then why not help out and tell us?
Unfortunately politics is politics and they can't help themselves with this point scoring mentality. If someone sees something wrong then by all means point it out but then also give a solution |  | | |
| Well done government on 13:10 - Apr 19 with 1216 views | D_Alien |
| Well done government on 11:21 - Apr 19 by rochdaleriddler |
As you know I subscribe to the Times, and yes there are a variety of different angles on many stories. You cannot just put this article down to people having agendas to suit your narrative. It’s journalism , proper stuff , not just pro government propaganda. Criticism of government action or inaction is right and proper , and without it I’m not sure Care Home staff and residents would be as high on the agenda, as they appear to have been forgotten until recently. It’s not party political, it’s Political. There is a difference
Edit. Macron has at least acknowledged mistakes [Post edited 19 Apr 2020 11:22]
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Then why not give praise where it's due too?
I'll tell you why, because it doesn't suit your agenda. One of the principal objectives right from the start was to avoid the situation that developed in Italy where patients were having to be assessed on the likelihood of survival, one against another, and ventilated accordingly
https://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/133999/new-nhs-n
Due to the government mobilising resources which - and this is the key point, resources which were within their control - the UK has found itself in a position where that Italian nightmare scenario will never happen
With regard to testing and ppe - and i've made this point all along - there are factors outwith the government's control
They haven't got everything right, but then who would? Once you take those two key points on board: factors within its control, and factors not within its control, the perspective from which i view how the government is handling the crisis shifts from one of blame to one of doing as much as humanly possible to get through the crisis with the minimum loss of life, minimum damage to the economy and the minimum restrictions on all our freedoms necessary to achieve those objectives. Why on earth would they do otherwise?
[Post edited 19 Apr 2020 13:13]
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| Well done government on 13:51 - Apr 19 with 1167 views | tony_roch975 |
| Well done government on 13:10 - Apr 19 by D_Alien |
Then why not give praise where it's due too?
I'll tell you why, because it doesn't suit your agenda. One of the principal objectives right from the start was to avoid the situation that developed in Italy where patients were having to be assessed on the likelihood of survival, one against another, and ventilated accordingly
https://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/133999/new-nhs-n
Due to the government mobilising resources which - and this is the key point, resources which were within their control - the UK has found itself in a position where that Italian nightmare scenario will never happen
With regard to testing and ppe - and i've made this point all along - there are factors outwith the government's control
They haven't got everything right, but then who would? Once you take those two key points on board: factors within its control, and factors not within its control, the perspective from which i view how the government is handling the crisis shifts from one of blame to one of doing as much as humanly possible to get through the crisis with the minimum loss of life, minimum damage to the economy and the minimum restrictions on all our freedoms necessary to achieve those objectives. Why on earth would they do otherwise?
[Post edited 19 Apr 2020 13:13]
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The article raises 4 issues:
1) the policy of a decade's austerity reduced scenario-planning and stock-piling (within Govt's control)
2) Brexit negotiations and political promises overwhelmed the government machine so other legislation/planning was put on hold (within Govt's control)
3) there were delays between scientific information on the virus becoming available and government taking decisions (within Govt's control)
4) by the time the decisions were made equipment supply pressures were global (without Govt's control)
The Govt aren't deliberately increasing the death rate or wrecking the economy; they don't want us to have the highest death rate in Europe but that doesn't mean we won't. As to whether any other Govt would have done better starting from where we were, possibly not - but maybe it's those first 3 choices that were wrong? |  |
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| Well done government on 13:53 - Apr 19 with 1162 views | mingthemerciless |
| Well done government on 12:13 - Apr 19 by D_Alien |
Absolutely ming - but that's all it is, a story - a journalist's piece which they're paid to produce and make as comment-worthy as possible; and as per the BBC interview with Michael Gove this morning, there have been no decisions taken yet. That may also be a 'story' of course (a tory story, before anyone else gets that one in) |
It may be just speculation at the moment but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if that turns out to be the outcome. I'm in the group that would suffer but if it takes 12 months of lockdown for me and my wife to stay alive and the economy to get back to a semblance of normality that's what we'd have to do. | | | |
| Well done government on 13:57 - Apr 19 with 1155 views | jonesy |
| Well done government on 13:51 - Apr 19 by tony_roch975 |
The article raises 4 issues:
1) the policy of a decade's austerity reduced scenario-planning and stock-piling (within Govt's control)
2) Brexit negotiations and political promises overwhelmed the government machine so other legislation/planning was put on hold (within Govt's control)
3) there were delays between scientific information on the virus becoming available and government taking decisions (within Govt's control)
4) by the time the decisions were made equipment supply pressures were global (without Govt's control)
The Govt aren't deliberately increasing the death rate or wrecking the economy; they don't want us to have the highest death rate in Europe but that doesn't mean we won't. As to whether any other Govt would have done better starting from where we were, possibly not - but maybe it's those first 3 choices that were wrong? |
I think item 2 was out of the government’s control due to people not accepting the result of the referendum. Hence a delay and waste of time.
Item 1 is carried out by everyone. Deciding what to spend your money on. Eg insurance policies.
Don’t know about item 3 | | | |
| Well done government on 14:04 - Apr 19 with 1151 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Well done government on 13:10 - Apr 19 by D_Alien |
Then why not give praise where it's due too?
I'll tell you why, because it doesn't suit your agenda. One of the principal objectives right from the start was to avoid the situation that developed in Italy where patients were having to be assessed on the likelihood of survival, one against another, and ventilated accordingly
https://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/133999/new-nhs-n
Due to the government mobilising resources which - and this is the key point, resources which were within their control - the UK has found itself in a position where that Italian nightmare scenario will never happen
With regard to testing and ppe - and i've made this point all along - there are factors outwith the government's control
They haven't got everything right, but then who would? Once you take those two key points on board: factors within its control, and factors not within its control, the perspective from which i view how the government is handling the crisis shifts from one of blame to one of doing as much as humanly possible to get through the crisis with the minimum loss of life, minimum damage to the economy and the minimum restrictions on all our freedoms necessary to achieve those objectives. Why on earth would they do otherwise?
[Post edited 19 Apr 2020 13:13]
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I have praised some things, I thought Sunak comes across well, and have said so on here. Trouble is at the beginning we were told , and you also said ‘we are following the science’ it is now obvious we were only following the bits the govt wanted us to. People that disagreed with that, with scientific and disease qualifications were described on here as washed up has beens with axes to grind, Hunt was also dismissed as bitter. A lot of politicking on here has come from people seeking to defend the government At all costs. I do understand that this is a mammoth, and difficult task, and that we were always going to have many deaths, and severe damage to the economy, I never thought like some this was just a bit of flu. So yes some things are impressive, the building of temporary hospitals, the recruitment of staff for example but some of it especially early doors was dangerous and complacent and has cost lives |  |
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| Well done government on 14:07 - Apr 19 with 1144 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Well done government on 12:48 - Apr 19 by Nigeriamark |
Good article and thanks for posting it ( I assume copy & paste rather than typing yourself!!). As someone with no interest in politics for the last 50 years I don't see this article as Tory v Labour. It would have been the same whoever won the last election. The simple fact is we weren't prepared and you can't just magic up vaccines, testing kits and protective clothing just because the opposition are giving you pressure.
I stand to be corrected as to if it is politivcal or not but the only way I can see it being so is if 1 party definitely has all the answers & the other doesn't. Its all right the Labour leader asking the Tory leader to come up with a detailed exit plan, but why doesn't he also come up with one as well so that they can be put side by side and we can take the best of both? If he says the level of testing is 80,000 too low then if he knows where to get these extra tests from then why not help out and tell us?
Unfortunately politics is politics and they can't help themselves with this point scoring mentality. If someone sees something wrong then by all means point it out but then also give a solution |
Definately not my own work | |
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| Well done government on 15:21 - Apr 19 with 1094 views | 49thseason |
The NHS accounts for 18/19 contain an £83.4 Billion contingency fund against the costs of being sued by patients and that in-year this amount was up from £77.1 Bn the year before. i.e over £6 billion was added to the fund in1 year, the accounts also show that in -year the NHS paid out £2.2 Bn in negligence claims. In other words, the NHS is carrying the better part of 40 years of negligence contingency funds or the equivalent of 6 months of total funding. Or looked at another way 160 brand new large hospitals.
Surely some of our money could have been taken from this fund to set up a PPE manufacturing operation here in the UK. Bearing in mind that the Chinese in Jinan Province is claiming to have set up some 70 factories to manufacture PPE materials since January? |  | | |
| Well done government on 19:12 - Apr 19 with 991 views | D_Alien |
| Well done government on 13:57 - Apr 19 by jonesy |
I think item 2 was out of the government’s control due to people not accepting the result of the referendum. Hence a delay and waste of time.
Item 1 is carried out by everyone. Deciding what to spend your money on. Eg insurance policies.
Don’t know about item 3 |
With regard to item 3, the scientific advice wasn't settled - still isn't. That's the nature of science. There's only best-fit to the evidence which can then change (think Galileo). This is very much the point made by Jane Harries at today's briefing, but it's not something that can be put into a soundbite which is what the media - and the government too - would like | |
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