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It’s a fair analogy, the destruction of historical monuments for an ideological purpose carried out with almost religious fervour. It is horrendous behaviour regardless of what a scumbag the Bristol bloke was in real life.
You forgot the bit where the council should have removed it decades ago.
That deliberate lack of action led directly to people taking matters into their own hands.
I wonder if those that pulled down the statue in Bristol, see the irony, that it is they that are reaping the benefits of the slave trade, by living there, statue or not.
One young lady saw it, very conflicted as her school was built by Colston (not literally I presume).
Some may even be descendants of the Africans that sold the slaves to the traders.
Life and history complex things, but it is there to be learned from, not esponged or glorified nor rewritten. But a document of its time.
You forgot the bit where the council should have removed it decades ago.
That deliberate lack of action led directly to people taking matters into their own hands.
Should we therefore employ the services of roving mobs of vigilantes to address all of societies historical ills with hammers and ropes and a system of levers and pullies?
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
You forgot the bit where the council should have removed it decades ago.
That deliberate lack of action led directly to people taking matters into their own hands.
Perhaps the British government should tear down all the racist monuments and murals in Northern Ireland glorifying the mass murders committed by the IRA.
Yeah where is the line? Cromwell was a very naughty boy indeed. Gandhi was undoubtedly racist, in his younger days at least. Morcambe and wise probably made some jokes that would be offensive now. Yank their statue down too. Didn’t Freddie Mercury body shame women with big bums? Off with his statue too.
True ..... and the statue of Swansea Jack on the prom will have to go too. I don't think he saved any black people.
We shouldn't all be tarred with the same brush you know!
The people who want to remove the statue want the history to be known. Its the local tory councillors who want to deny people knowing the history.
The plaque clearly stated his involvement in the slave trade and its consequences and was ready to go up. It was the Labour Mayor who vetoed it...
“However, after the plaque was cast, its installation was vetoed in March 2019 by Bristol's mayor, Marvin Rees”
* Rees is a member of the Labour Party not Conservative. * In September 2017, Rees was placed at Number 78 in "The 100 Most Influential People on the Left" by commentator Iain Dale * In the 2020 Powerlist, Rees was listed in the Top 100 of the most influential people in the UK of African/African-Caribbean descent
The plaque clearly stated his involvement in the slave trade and its consequences and was ready to go up. It was the Labour Mayor who vetoed it...
“However, after the plaque was cast, its installation was vetoed in March 2019 by Bristol's mayor, Marvin Rees”
* Rees is a member of the Labour Party not Conservative. * In September 2017, Rees was placed at Number 78 in "The 100 Most Influential People on the Left" by commentator Iain Dale * In the 2020 Powerlist, Rees was listed in the Top 100 of the most influential people in the UK of African/African-Caribbean descent
So presumably not a Tory Councillor.
I think Humpty needs to look at the make up of Bristol City Council
You give it out, you take it back it`s all part of the game
Picton, fighting against a man who believed women should be slaves. I was taught he was a hero, nothing has changed.
[Post edited 10 Jun 2020 7:18]
Some of the greatest heroes in history (some or many?) would be racist, sexist, misogynist, xenophobic by todays standards. Most of the rich and powerful back in the days of empire would be all those things too. Many of today's rich and powerful still are, Bojo of course,
So, although I don't 100% agree, maybe it's time to revise, to update, to change the present because we can't change the past. Now thinking of Micah Richards,
"You contribute by not being aware," she said, saying there were biases at play in the education system, the judicial system and in securing loans for homes and businesses.
Once those issues were exposed, "it's not enough to just say 'I'm not racist' because you're not a purveyor of overt racism," the Birmingham-born singer added.
"If you benefit from the system, knowing that people are being oppressed and affected by it, then you are racist.
"To be anti-racist you have to be actively a part of dismantling the systems that surround you and the systems that you benefit from."
Blimey, I should hang my hed in shame for having a home and being an obvious racist. hang on though, hasn't Jamlia benefitted? Didn't the system make her famous and earn her loads of money, she must be a bigger racist than me! Does this mean, in her opinion, we are all racist, every single one of us. I took the comment from here,
Perhaps the British government should tear down all the racist monuments and murals in Northern Ireland glorifying the mass murders committed by the IRA.
Being a resident of Belfast for many years I can assure you any removal of any historical mural, landmark or statue would cause hundreds more deaths, the city doesn't need any more murders or deaths by protest. Regardless of political leaning. This city has done so much to reciver from years and years of mass murder it doesn't need the hatred to return at those levels.
Does Picton's courage as a soldier absolve him of torturing a teenage girl?
Does the bravery and military skill of the red army in defeating Hitler absolve the rape of thousands of German woman and girls.?
I've known about Picton and his exploits at Waterloo for over 30 years.
I've only really found out about his darker side this week. Therein lies the root of the problem
” Does Picton's courage as a soldier absolve him of torturing a teenage girl?
You do realise that’s a hoary old canard, don’t you? The ‘torture’ allegations were actively propagated for political purposes by Whigs who wanted Picton out of the Governor’s office and their own man in. In reality Magistrates wanted her flogged for her role in a break-in that left the victim dead. Picton, possibly out of consideration for her age and sex, awarded company punishment instead. The same punishment awarded to drummer boys found stealing grog.
Nobody would claim that undergoing picketing wasn’t deeply unpleasant, but this is the early 1800s we’re talking about.
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
” Does Picton's courage as a soldier absolve him of torturing a teenage girl?
You do realise that’s a hoary old canard, don’t you? The ‘torture’ allegations were actively propagated for political purposes by Whigs who wanted Picton out of the Governor’s office and their own man in. In reality Magistrates wanted her flogged for her role in a break-in that left the victim dead. Picton, possibly out of consideration for her age and sex, awarded company punishment instead. The same punishment awarded to drummer boys found stealing grog.
Nobody would claim that undergoing picketing wasn’t deeply unpleasant, but this is the early 1800s we’re talking about.
Interesting isn’t it that the Whig engraving makes Calderon a white girl and her torturer a fiendish-looking oriental. A cynic may suggest it was done deliberately to create an effect...
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
So would you say the only real answer is education. Lets eradicate ignorance and then maybe we can move on.
Education is key, but broad based and balanced education as opposed to the Daily mail version of history.
I remember reading a primary school history book that had "boys own" illustrations of Clive of India portraying him as a demi god bringing civilisation to the savages. Many of these heroes of yore were lauded when racism and imperialism were both acceptable and legal.
Racism is no longer legal or acceptable, but it appears many would like it to be and they certainly want a return to British imperialism.
Education of all sides of the story is essential and its fair to say for centuries only one side has been presented to the vast majority.
Interesting isn’t it that the Whig engraving makes Calderon a white girl and her torturer a fiendish-looking oriental. A cynic may suggest it was done deliberately to create an effect...
They must have had to pose like that for ages for the artist to finish.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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