| Kane or Kakay 13:27 - Apr 19 with 39654 views | QPR99 |
Not the biggest fan of Kane for obvious reasons, but looking at Kakay's recent games I wonder if he should be back starting.
Apparently Kakay lost the ball 'once every 2.5 touches and once every 4.5 minutes' against Boro. Completed only 57% of his 37 passes. I remember hearing Warbs say something before that this is how it works when building a team from younger players, that they do make mistakes but it gives experience and creates a better team. Which is so evident from Willock who i think has become one of our best players from his game time this season.
So... Kakay or Kane? |  | | |  |
| Kane or Kakay on 08:27 - May 5 with 3529 views | gazza1 |
| Kane or Kakay on 08:22 - May 5 by CamberleyR |
Who's calling anyone names? I haven't seen it, just the usual rational LFW debate. |
Have a read.....from Page 3. It starts with 'prick'. | | | |
| Kane or Kakay on 09:12 - May 5 with 3422 views | CamberleyR |
| Kane or Kakay on 08:27 - May 5 by gazza1 |
Have a read.....from Page 3. It starts with 'prick'. |
I counted just one more (bellend) shortly after Hunter's post. I think you're ever so slightly overreacting... |  |
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| Kane or Kakay on 09:16 - May 5 with 3407 views | gazza1 |
| Kane or Kakay on 09:12 - May 5 by CamberleyR |
I counted just one more (bellend) shortly after Hunter's post. I think you're ever so slightly overreacting... |
Thanks, you have just proved my point...... | | | |
| Kane or Kakay on 09:33 - May 5 with 3346 views | QPR_Jim |
| Kane or Kakay on 09:12 - May 5 by CamberleyR |
I counted just one more (bellend) shortly after Hunter's post. I think you're ever so slightly overreacting... |
He's probably got called more names on some match threads this year, still not right but somehow doesn't warrant such a staunch defense from posters.
This thread has been interesting, I didn't realise that you weren't allowed to use hypothetical situations in discussion. If he's found guilty we should .... not consider this until it's confirmed he's guilty then hurriedly decide what we'll do, preferably blame the media for making it impossible to get a fair decision due to them using hypotheticals without due care and attention.
Maybe it should be club wide policy for all offences, if you turn up late for training you will be punished, but we won't tell you what the punishment is until you turn up late. |  | | |
| Kane or Kakay on 09:36 - May 5 with 3323 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Kane or Kakay on 23:19 - May 4 by karl |
Difficult area but there are horrible words that describe Latin people, definitely racism imo when they're used.
It doesn't look like this will end well if there's 3rd party evidence, without it I'm not sure how there's a case but you have to imagine the FA have serious grounds and the club have definitely been holding Kane back so have to fear the worst unfortunately |
Last night Jim Beglin said Di Maria was sent off because of his "Latino temperament".  | | | |
| Kane or Kakay on 09:54 - May 5 with 3264 views | karl |
| Kane or Kakay on 09:36 - May 5 by Wegerles_Stairs |
Last night Jim Beglin said Di Maria was sent off because of his "Latino temperament". |
Yes, generalisations like that are obviously in the 'grey' area of insults but more and more they stand out as the wrong choice of words.
I'll hopefully not word this wrong but it is easy to say 'I'm not racist', genuinely believe it and live according to that but with the change of language and descriptive words over the years you can be left behind.
Jim Beglin probably used that same description for a hothead player 15 years ago and the viewers possibly didn't raise an eyebrow, you have to keep moving with this for sure.
The words I was thinking that are used for insulting Latino people have always been considered as insults in my lifetime and one particularly offensive. |  | | |
| Kane or Kakay on 10:22 - May 5 with 3193 views | switchingcode |
I expect I’m in the minority but I think Canos should have waited till the end of the game and had it out with Kane instead of running across the pitch to complain to the ref. | | | |
| Kane or Kakay on 10:49 - May 5 with 3148 views | daveB |
| Kane or Kakay on 01:28 - May 5 by Miss_Terraces |
I'm not going to defend Kane for what he's said but I feel sky and the other media outlets are far more out of order by not stating it was against a white player. It's not fair on Kane or the black community or even any of us.
If we the people are serious about Black Lives Matters then we need to wrestle control from the lying racist murdoch empire and give it to the Black community to lead it
In the fight against racism, if you're on murdoch's side, you're on the wrong side and yet his blue flag scabs are leading the conversation. The murdoch empire is using racism to divide us. How much more powerful would this revolution be if it was lead by great footballers that were black and had earned our Respect by what they had done on the pitch |
It's a tricky one this especially as we don't know what he is accused of saying. If they say it was against a white player that would suggest that you can't be racist towards a white person.
Also don't think Murdoch owns Sky anymore |  | | |
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| Kane or Kakay on 12:06 - May 5 with 3013 views | Hunterhoop |
| Kane or Kakay on 09:54 - May 5 by karl |
Yes, generalisations like that are obviously in the 'grey' area of insults but more and more they stand out as the wrong choice of words.
I'll hopefully not word this wrong but it is easy to say 'I'm not racist', genuinely believe it and live according to that but with the change of language and descriptive words over the years you can be left behind.
Jim Beglin probably used that same description for a hothead player 15 years ago and the viewers possibly didn't raise an eyebrow, you have to keep moving with this for sure.
The words I was thinking that are used for insulting Latino people have always been considered as insults in my lifetime and one particularly offensive. |
Very fair.
Of particular relevance to this line of thinking is the use of “pace and power” as complimentary traits almost always used to describe a black player. Sounness described Eze as having “pace and power”. I’m not sure any of us who watched him regularly would use “power” to describe his traits. He’s strong, but like a ballerina; all balance and poise. He’s also more quick of mind than body. He loses men with his first touch not through a blistering burst of pace like BOS did. And when he moved quickly it was like he was skiing downhill, not sprinting. Yet, Sounness went with “pace and power.” Okay, I know he’d barely seen him at that point, and most people wouldn’t bat an eyelid at that phrase, but does he say Jack Grealish has pace and power? He’s probably the closest to Eze in style.
Last night, Lee Hendrie referred to a Rotherham winger as having pace and power when he beat two players. Moments before, when he bounced off a Luton player I thought he looked a bit lightweight.
Honestly, just listen for how often pundits describe a black player of having “pace and power”, and how few times you here it for a white player. Once you start picking up on it, it’s eye opening.
Oh, and I still think Kane is a pr*ck, Gazza. I’m not sure how anyone could watch that interview where he slates Kakay and not think he’s a pr*ck. I’m inclined to believe he said something stupid here too, as the FA don’t bring charges just to spice up their day. Besides, It’s not name calling - I’m not talking directly to him. Were I to, i wouldn’t have a issue telling him that was opinion of him, but then you could more reasonably label it name calling. At present though, it was just a concise way of expressing my opinion about his character. Given it’s a forum for people to voice opinions, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to offer one. I could offer a few on your character too...  but, that would be name calling.   |  | | |
| Kane or Kakay on 12:08 - May 5 with 3014 views | Loftgirl |
| Kane or Kakay on 15:16 - May 4 by Hunterhoop |
What a pr*ck.
He plays for a club in a diverse area of London. He has teammates with an array of nationalities and ethnicities. Idiot.
After his arrogant comments about Kakay and now this, you do have to question his character. |
Ex Chels, innit? |  | | |
| Kane or Kakay on 12:10 - May 5 with 3003 views | Loftgirl |
| Kane or Kakay on 16:00 - May 4 by gazza1 |
Explain what its got to do with Chelsea..... |
Breeding. | | | |
| Kane or Kakay on 12:47 - May 5 with 2877 views | daveB |
| Kane or Kakay on 12:06 - May 5 by Hunterhoop |
Very fair.
Of particular relevance to this line of thinking is the use of “pace and power” as complimentary traits almost always used to describe a black player. Sounness described Eze as having “pace and power”. I’m not sure any of us who watched him regularly would use “power” to describe his traits. He’s strong, but like a ballerina; all balance and poise. He’s also more quick of mind than body. He loses men with his first touch not through a blistering burst of pace like BOS did. And when he moved quickly it was like he was skiing downhill, not sprinting. Yet, Sounness went with “pace and power.” Okay, I know he’d barely seen him at that point, and most people wouldn’t bat an eyelid at that phrase, but does he say Jack Grealish has pace and power? He’s probably the closest to Eze in style.
Last night, Lee Hendrie referred to a Rotherham winger as having pace and power when he beat two players. Moments before, when he bounced off a Luton player I thought he looked a bit lightweight.
Honestly, just listen for how often pundits describe a black player of having “pace and power”, and how few times you here it for a white player. Once you start picking up on it, it’s eye opening.
Oh, and I still think Kane is a pr*ck, Gazza. I’m not sure how anyone could watch that interview where he slates Kakay and not think he’s a pr*ck. I’m inclined to believe he said something stupid here too, as the FA don’t bring charges just to spice up their day. Besides, It’s not name calling - I’m not talking directly to him. Were I to, i wouldn’t have a issue telling him that was opinion of him, but then you could more reasonably label it name calling. At present though, it was just a concise way of expressing my opinion about his character. Given it’s a forum for people to voice opinions, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to offer one. I could offer a few on your character too... but, that would be name calling. |
In fairness to Souness he'd probably never seen him play other than a few of his goals. I think a lot of it is programmed into you at a young age, When we signed De Wijs hearing we had a Dutch defender I instantly thought he must be good on the ball but not so great in the air as so many Dutch Defenders I grew up watching were like that. That is of course a nonsense view when you delve into it and actually watch the player but it would be my initial reaction just as if we signed a Spanish midfield player I'd be thinking in my head of a small, skillful, great passer of the ball type player when in reality they could be a headless chicken for all i know.
For a lot of commentators now they have been brought up on the likes of Andy Gray using one or two adjectives to describe a player and they now do the same, i don't think it's particularly aimed at black players, all races, nationalities and various body shapes have basic labels given to them by football commentators. | | | |
| Kane or Kakay on 13:43 - May 5 with 2734 views | EastR |
That was our Jim just displaying his thick Irishness. Or as we'd say at home 'he's from Waterford, God help him'. | |
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| Kane or Kakay on 14:11 - May 5 with 2661 views | Hunterhoop |
| Kane or Kakay on 12:47 - May 5 by daveB |
In fairness to Souness he'd probably never seen him play other than a few of his goals. I think a lot of it is programmed into you at a young age, When we signed De Wijs hearing we had a Dutch defender I instantly thought he must be good on the ball but not so great in the air as so many Dutch Defenders I grew up watching were like that. That is of course a nonsense view when you delve into it and actually watch the player but it would be my initial reaction just as if we signed a Spanish midfield player I'd be thinking in my head of a small, skillful, great passer of the ball type player when in reality they could be a headless chicken for all i know.
For a lot of commentators now they have been brought up on the likes of Andy Gray using one or two adjectives to describe a player and they now do the same, i don't think it's particularly aimed at black players, all races, nationalities and various body shapes have basic labels given to them by football commentators. |
The big difference is you’re talking about traits linked to a National team’s style of football (or how that style is perceived).
I’m talking about traits associated with skin colour and skin colour alone. Eze plays for Eng U21s so it can’t have been about nationality, unless Souness assumed he played for a nation commonly associated with “pace and power” (not sure who that could be). Don’t think your reasoning washes with the point I was making, albeit I understand what you are saying about nationalities and popular perceptions, and it makes sense. In this example though, whilst I’m sure it was something that became part of mainstream conscious thought...it’s still linked to skin colour and nothing else. But yet it is never challenged. | | | |
| Kane or Kakay on 14:20 - May 5 with 2649 views | danehoop |
You can only have a suspicion that the club have expected the worst from this once the allegation was made. Realistically the FA wouldn't move forward with this if there wasnt sufficient evidence on the balance of probability that the incident and reported language used didnt happen Hope not, but hugely disappointing to be in the position now.
I suspect his career at QPR is probably done, irrespective of the hearing. |  |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| Kane or Kakay on 15:09 - May 5 with 2548 views | daveB |
| Kane or Kakay on 14:11 - May 5 by Hunterhoop |
The big difference is you’re talking about traits linked to a National team’s style of football (or how that style is perceived).
I’m talking about traits associated with skin colour and skin colour alone. Eze plays for Eng U21s so it can’t have been about nationality, unless Souness assumed he played for a nation commonly associated with “pace and power” (not sure who that could be). Don’t think your reasoning washes with the point I was making, albeit I understand what you are saying about nationalities and popular perceptions, and it makes sense. In this example though, whilst I’m sure it was something that became part of mainstream conscious thought...it’s still linked to skin colour and nothing else. But yet it is never challenged. |
I wonder in Souness case if it goes back to the first big star footballers he played with and against who were black who were mostly known for being big, strong and quick such as Lawrie Cunningham, Cyril Regis, Viv Anderson etc. Perhaps if you grow up with those being the first images you have of black players that kind of sticks with you sub consciously.
I do think a big part of it is football pundits are not all the sharpest and just repeat what they have heard in the past without really thinking about it. Perhaps that will change in time [Post edited 5 May 2021 15:09]
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| Kane or Kakay on 18:09 - May 5 with 2305 views | hantssi |
Read this and was just about to post.
Well done Hertha Berlin for acting so quickly. | | | |
| Kane or Kakay on 18:22 - May 5 with 2197 views | PinnerPaul |
Just had a quick squint at FA website and there is no 'norm' for timescale in these cases, I've found one that took 10 months from offence to hearing and 1 that was all sorted in under a month - with every timescale in between!
As said above, all depends on how quickly the 'participants' respond. | | | |
| Kane or Kakay on 19:17 - May 5 with 2218 views | davman |
| Kane or Kakay on 13:43 - May 5 by EastR |
That was our Jim just displaying his thick Irishness. Or as we'd say at home 'he's from Waterford, God help him'. |
You mean there's levels of Irish in Ireland - really????  
...just for clarity, this is a reference to the ridiculous racial stereotype articulated constantly throughout my childhood - a racist slur I'm sure and not one I have ever subscribed to.
"To be sure"... |  |
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| Kane or Kakay on 19:27 - May 5 with 2191 views | daveB |
| Kane or Kakay on 18:22 - May 5 by PinnerPaul |
Just had a quick squint at FA website and there is no 'norm' for timescale in these cases, I've found one that took 10 months from offence to hearing and 1 that was all sorted in under a month - with every timescale in between!
As said above, all depends on how quickly the 'participants' respond. |
Things would be sped up a lot if once a complaint was made the player was suspended until the case was heard. That would put an end to players and clubs using the system to delay things. | | | |
| Kane or Kakay on 22:18 - May 5 with 2021 views | GloryHunter |
| Kane or Kakay on 09:54 - May 5 by karl |
Yes, generalisations like that are obviously in the 'grey' area of insults but more and more they stand out as the wrong choice of words.
I'll hopefully not word this wrong but it is easy to say 'I'm not racist', genuinely believe it and live according to that but with the change of language and descriptive words over the years you can be left behind.
Jim Beglin probably used that same description for a hothead player 15 years ago and the viewers possibly didn't raise an eyebrow, you have to keep moving with this for sure.
The words I was thinking that are used for insulting Latino people have always been considered as insults in my lifetime and one particularly offensive. |
Good point. I was reprimanded by my Scottish window cleaner recently for using the word "Jock". I was using it in a friendly way, but he said it was now thought of as demeaning. So I stand corrected. |  | | |
| Kane or Kakay on 22:48 - May 5 with 1966 views | LazyFan |
I don't see the debate here.
If Todd Kane is innocent, sell him as he's not a team player, replaceable, on big wages compared to others, and we might get something for him.
If Todd Kane is guilty, sack him. Sure we lose money on a sale, but it proves we have zero tolerance to racists and proves we are better than Chelscum. Sends a message to all players everywhere that QPR is a no-nonsense club.
Either way, he's gone and therefore should be removed from the squad for Saturday as he will no longer be part of our future.
Back to one of our own, Kakay, a great season mate.
Please keep improving, well done Ozzy. |  |
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| Kane or Kakay on 09:37 - May 6 with 1805 views | karl |
| Kane or Kakay on 22:18 - May 5 by GloryHunter |
Good point. I was reprimanded by my Scottish window cleaner recently for using the word "Jock". I was using it in a friendly way, but he said it was now thought of as demeaning. So I stand corrected. |
We're all becoming more sensitive to use of language for sure, I mean those not subjected to direct racial abuse of course, not trying to dismiss that as sensitive people over reacting.
For me it's having to understand the nuances, for example if someone on here takes the effort to type out 'sweaty socks' or even 'sweaties' instead of 'Scots' I'm wondering their motive given its longer words.
However you do have to add in the fact people do speak in slang and there's a habit factor which might be similar to what has been said about Beglin before.
If you're actually speaking to someone then it's far easier to tell of course as the tone of language is easier to distinguish.
Separately this is hitting the news up here last couple of days.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57000261
Seems he's being charged the same as Kane?
The big stink now is that BBC Scotland Sportsound (our sport radio programme) gave him the opportunity to apologise and describe it as a flippant remark.
He's been a pundit on there and fills all their criteria of being an ex Rangers player and the baggage that carries so old boys network looking after him.
They were, rightly, strident in their condemnation of the Slavia Prague player who allegedly abused the Rangers player but offer a soft interview in this instance (albeit a much less level of racism).
They are a horrible institution unfortunately | | | |
| Kane or Kakay on 10:12 - May 6 with 1727 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Kane or Kakay on 13:43 - May 5 by EastR |
That was our Jim just displaying his thick Irishness. Or as we'd say at home 'he's from Waterford, God help him'. |
Sorry, EastR, but I don't know what to make of this...
Are you Irish? Either way, why are we perpetuating the old trope that Irish people are thick?
Beglin's not thick, and there would be no excuse for any comment about 'Latino temperament', not from Beglin who comes from the same town as Stephen Hunt and only a short drive from Roy Keane. |  |
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