| The Squad 2022-2023 02:05 - Jul 25 with 7776 views | Kerouac |
Not looking too clever is it? A bit of a dog's breakfast...
- Crap keeper (without decent competition?)
- Rubbish Wing-backs
- Full-backs? Manning can play Left-back, Lati doesn't seem up to RB and Naughton is too old to deal with pacey wingers.
PLUS - Naughton, Lati and Manning have been playing their football at CB under Martin.
Sorinola up to it? He'd better be.
- CB? Wood looks decent, could partner Cabango and Darling? Darling had better be up to it given the outlay. Worrying signs in pre-season though, hope he comes good.
If we play 3 centre-backs we have lots of options and cover...but you can only play that way with decent wing-backs. We don't seem to have any.
- DM/CM
Should be fine with Joey and Fulton (who has never let us down but by the sounds of it is out of the door). I guess Harvey White is the specialist on Loan to replace Fulton as back up. With Grimes partnering Allen. Walsh seems to be a waste of space (nice little passer, but never fit). I prefer Ntcham at attacking midfield but hopefully he'll be able to do a job at CM if needed...don't like him in the tackle though
Wingers
- We don't have any except Garrick...although I'm convinced Joseph could do a good job there...unfortunately it seems that neither of them, nor Whittaker, will be given any game time there.
Attacking Midfield
- We have 3 players who can do a good job there...I guess Patterson is going to be used wider, he doesn't look comfortable there though. No pace.
Striker
- We have two top strikers for this division. I will be amazed if Piroe is not gone by September though. If Piroe goes presumably we'll have money to replace him but I don't think we'll be fortunate to pick up a similar player to Piroe's quality though...odds are against it. More likely to pick up somebody who used to play for MK Dons.
Joseph could step up and Whittaker has the raw talent.
Cullen, unfortunately, looks like he could use a move to Newport and build up from there...still not writing the boy off altogether though.
All in all, my assessment is that we are weaker this year than last year. The manager has not addressed the squad's weaknesses and there does not seem to be much of what you'd call a coherent plan...please prove me wrong, I've bought 2 season tickets, I would like to watch my club play competitive games throughout the season and not be near the relegation end...but honestly, this squad looks like they belong down the bottom (once Piroe goes)
SQUAD
Manager
Russell Martin
Goalkeeper
1) Andrew Fisher (ex-Mk Dons)
??) Who is the back up keeper?
Right-Back
22) Joel Latibeaudiere
26) Kyle Naughton
19) Tivonge Rushesha
Left-Back
3) Ryan Manning
29) Matthew Sorinola - £350k Union SG (ex-MK Dons)
Centre-Back
5) Ben Cabango
16) Brandon Cooper
23) Nathan Wood - £300k (Middlesboro)
6) Harry Darling - £2.3m (Mk Dons)
Defensive Midfield
4) Jay Fulton
7) Joe Allen - £Free (Stoke City)
Harvey White - LOAN?
Centre Midfield
8) Matt Grimes
28) Liam Walsh
Attacking Midfield
10) Olivier Ntcham
12) Jamie Patterson
45) Cameron Congreve
31) Oliver Cooper
Right-Wing
41) Jordan Garrick
14) Kyle Joseph
Left-Wing
11) Morgan Whittaker
Striker
17) Joel Piroe
9) Michael Obafemi
20) Liam Cullen
Most promising youngsters that haven't had a go yet...
48) Joel Cotterill
25) Lewis Webb
35) Lincoln McFadyen
36) Ben Lloyd
37) Daniel Williams
38) Cameron Evans ? (Did he go to Swindon?)
Offski
13) Steven Benda
2) Ryan Bennett
15) Nathaniel Ogbeta
Gone
Flynn Downes - £10m
Korey Smith - £Free
Ben Hamer - £Free
Yann Dhanda - £Free [Post edited 26 Jul 2022 18:14]
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 18:07 - Jul 26 with 1348 views | Kerouac |
| The Squad 2022-2023 on 17:06 - Jul 26 by BryanSwan |
Might i ask what they grey tick is for? Estimate wage?
If Ntcham is on anywhere near that amount it is ridiculous. |
I get that feeling, he hasn't performed like a £27k a week player (even though I quite like him, he has good ability) but it is the price of signing a player with his background on a free.
If a transfer fee was involved he would not have commanded anywhere near that, but as he was on a free and lots of clubs at our level would have been interested...let's just say I get it.
Even Bennett, he signed for us when we had a larger budget and was coming from the Premier League to join us, it made sense at the time...and my, distant, recollection is that Bennett was very good at this level at what he does. He was a rock in the Cooper side.
Fisher's wage is the one that shocks me. | |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 18:23 - Jul 26 with 1313 views | KeithHaynes |
| The Squad 2022-2023 on 17:56 - Jul 26 by shandyjack |
If that’s correct which I have no reason to doubt, then £27k a week for a player who sits on our bench more often than not is crazy |
I’m surprised at Ntcham, especially from the info we had when he signed, but of course not everything is right, and I agree it’s a phenomenal wage to pay him for what he returns.
Of course another Mark Allen inspired signing.
Think of that what you will. |  |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 18:30 - Jul 26 with 1308 views | guthrieintherain |
| The Squad 2022-2023 on 17:40 - Jul 26 by magicdaps10 |
We can't afford to pay him, he is the highest paid player at the club at 25k a week.
Last summer a weekly wage cap was brought in at 10k max, no player will sign on at more than that, it's been brought in to bring sustainability to the finances.
Unfortunately for Bennett, his age and going forward as a club, we need him off the payroll or atleast a certain percentage at best. |
23k I think yes agree it's a lot of money.
Nitcham is on 27k according an earlier post.
It needs sorting though 92k a month and he is not even in the squad. [Post edited 26 Jul 2022 18:32]
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 19:46 - Jul 26 with 1283 views | magicdaps10 |
| The Squad 2022-2023 on 18:30 - Jul 26 by guthrieintherain |
23k I think yes agree it's a lot of money.
Nitcham is on 27k according an earlier post.
It needs sorting though 92k a month and he is not even in the squad. [Post edited 26 Jul 2022 18:32]
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He needs out not only to be able to get one or 2 extra in from a % of his wage but to get the wage bill to an acceptable and more importantly within the clubs means.
We can get Bennett and Fulton out, we can then strengthen the squad further especially in areas that we need. |  |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 20:16 - Jul 26 with 1270 views | jruss |
Do people really think the Americans signed off on a 27k a week contract last summer? That's simply not believable.
Those sites are nonsense guess work. | | | |
| The Squad 2022-2023 on 20:45 - Jul 26 with 1251 views | magicdaps10 |
| The Squad 2022-2023 on 20:16 - Jul 26 by jruss |
Do people really think the Americans signed off on a 27k a week contract last summer? That's simply not believable.
Those sites are nonsense guess work. |
They tend to be total make believe plus the little tick to confirm is Truely unbelievable!
If you are going by those totally unreliable sites then it would appear he doubled his wage with us after being released by Celtic and being on the scrap heap.
As I posted earlier and it's no real suprise, last summer there was a wage cap put in place at the club at around 10k, no way is Naughton or Ntcham on much more than that if at all.
The squad needs strengthening, specific areas need players through the door and Bennett wage would allow a few bodies through the door and at the same time lower the wage bill down to a controllable amount and within our financial means. | |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 21:07 - Jul 26 with 1243 views | PawelAbbott |
I can see us selling both Piroe and Obafemi before the window closes. Anything over £10m, maybe even £8m with add ons and they'll be gone.
We will be scrambling around on deadline day trying to find someone who has even been to Milton Keynes | | | |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 21:15 - Jul 26 with 1241 views | vetchonian |
| The Squad 2022-2023 on 20:45 - Jul 26 by magicdaps10 |
They tend to be total make believe plus the little tick to confirm is Truely unbelievable!
If you are going by those totally unreliable sites then it would appear he doubled his wage with us after being released by Celtic and being on the scrap heap.
As I posted earlier and it's no real suprise, last summer there was a wage cap put in place at the club at around 10k, no way is Naughton or Ntcham on much more than that if at all.
The squad needs strengthening, specific areas need players through the door and Bennett wage would allow a few bodies through the door and at the same time lower the wage bill down to a controllable amount and within our financial means. |
do you think Joey had come back on just £10k a week? | |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 21:18 - Jul 26 with 1234 views | onehunglow |
| The Squad 2022-2023 on 21:07 - Jul 26 by PawelAbbott |
I can see us selling both Piroe and Obafemi before the window closes. Anything over £10m, maybe even £8m with add ons and they'll be gone.
We will be scrambling around on deadline day trying to find someone who has even been to Milton Keynes |
It is to hoped we are building a squad of quality and will keep them.
It’s all very well making profit on players but they have to be replaced | |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 21:20 - Jul 26 with 1234 views | vetchonian |
| The Squad 2022-2023 on 16:39 - Jul 26 by STID2017 |
That is crazy wages for an unproven keeper at our level |
just wait till OHL discovers this  | |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 21:36 - Jul 26 with 1226 views | magicdaps10 |
| The Squad 2022-2023 on 21:15 - Jul 26 by vetchonian |
do you think Joey had come back on just £10k a week? |
Yeah most certainly. I wouldn't be Suprised if there were good bonuses in there for him and also some job with us after his career ends.
Luckily for us, his passion to come home really played in our favour. | |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 21:38 - Jul 26 with 1225 views | onehunglow |
| The Squad 2022-2023 on 21:20 - Jul 26 by vetchonian |
just wait till OHL discovers this |
OHL has shut his eyes for the next 7 months | |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 22:12 - Jul 26 with 1199 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Ntchams salary is perfectly believable. He was on £14,000 a week at Celtic and came to us on a free transfer with pedigree. It’s how Ayew increased his salary to £80k a week with us.
He is a former French U21 player with vast experience in the Champions League and Europa League. If the club believe they can get £5m return from him, which is reasonable considering his pedigree then:-
£27,000 a week X 156 (3 years) = £4,200,000
It’s exactly the same as paying £1.5m for him and paying him £17,300 a week. Which I don’t think too many people would be shocked at, it would be less than Bennett who is much older and far less pedigree.
It’s essentially an accounting display. The transfer fee is essentially given to the player, it’s why players run their contracts down. Especially ones with such pedigree to sell to the next club. |  |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 22:15 - Jul 26 with 1199 views | raynor94 |
| The Squad 2022-2023 on 21:07 - Jul 26 by PawelAbbott |
I can see us selling both Piroe and Obafemi before the window closes. Anything over £10m, maybe even £8m with add ons and they'll be gone.
We will be scrambling around on deadline day trying to find someone who has even been to Milton Keynes |
Pathetic, what a Wum you are |  |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 22:29 - Jul 26 with 1188 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| The Squad 2022-2023 on 21:15 - Jul 26 by vetchonian |
do you think Joey had come back on just £10k a week? |
Joey has come with a future in management or coaching in mind. The club values him a bit like a Garry Monk situation.
Intelligent midfielder, knows how to play the passing game the right way and played Internationally, in Europe and for one of the biggest clubs in world football.
Sounds perfect doesn’t he… let’s hope so. | |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 22:35 - Jul 26 with 1182 views | STID2017 |
| The Squad 2022-2023 on 21:07 - Jul 26 by PawelAbbott |
I can see us selling both Piroe and Obafemi before the window closes. Anything over £10m, maybe even £8m with add ons and they'll be gone.
We will be scrambling around on deadline day trying to find someone who has even been to Milton Keynes |
Nonsense |  |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 22:42 - Jul 26 with 1173 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Naughtons salary has significantly reduced over the years.
He came to us on 32k.
20k a week is the lowest salary he has been on at the club in his Swansea career. You can see the progression here:-
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 22:46 - Jul 26 with 1160 views | Dr_Parnassus |
But back to the point at hand.
- We have the 9th highest squad value in the league.
- We have the 8th highest salary budget in the league.
- We have the 8th longest serving manager in the league.
- We have spent the 8th highest amount on transfers this season.
- We are on average the 8th favourites to win the title this season.
There is absolutely no reason anyone should be happy with coming outside the top 8. [Post edited 26 Jul 2022 22:50]
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 22:56 - Jul 26 with 1151 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| The Squad 2022-2023 on 22:46 - Jul 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
But back to the point at hand.
- We have the 9th highest squad value in the league.
- We have the 8th highest salary budget in the league.
- We have the 8th longest serving manager in the league.
- We have spent the 8th highest amount on transfers this season.
- We are on average the 8th favourites to win the title this season.
There is absolutely no reason anyone should be happy with coming outside the top 8. [Post edited 26 Jul 2022 22:50]
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All the stats suggest Martin should come 8th. This is also my prediction and is probably a minimum acceptable for Mr Winter the US management and 'the project'. It is progress.
Mr Cooper was 7th or 8th in his first season before the final nigh Forest collapse with a chunky parachute payment behind him.
Outside the top 10 would put the narrative of progress further under the spotlight. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 23:25 - Jul 26 with 1132 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| The Squad 2022-2023 on 22:56 - Jul 26 by ReslovenSwan1 |
All the stats suggest Martin should come 8th. This is also my prediction and is probably a minimum acceptable for Mr Winter the US management and 'the project'. It is progress.
Mr Cooper was 7th or 8th in his first season before the final nigh Forest collapse with a chunky parachute payment behind him.
Outside the top 10 would put the narrative of progress further under the spotlight. |
Well that would be a minimum of 8th based on everything being equal.
Except it doesn’t factor in that we wrote off a whole season to prepare for this one, which is something no other club did.
We should be more ready from minute 1 than any other club in the league. Which is why I state top 8 minimum (that’s where we should finish at worst), and top 6 being the realistic aim.
There is very little in budget difference between 8th and 6th (less than £2m). It could be argued that a year of preparation is far more valuable than the difference. | |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 23:42 - Jul 26 with 1123 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Top 6 - I congratulate Martin and the team regardless of what happens in the play offs
Top 8 - I congratulate Martin and the team on an acceptable finish
9th-12th - I think is a disappointing return and call into question “the process” and consider a change (the lower the finish on that 9th-12th scale, the more weight would be behind the thought).
Bottom half - He should be sacked without question.
Thats how I’m seeing this coming season. | |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 14:03 - Aug 7 with 861 views | Kerouac |
Anymore thoughts on how the squad should be strengthened? | |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 22:06 - Aug 10 with 767 views | Kerouac |
A dog's breakfast...
SQUAD
Manager
Russell Martin?
Goalkeeper
1) Andrew Fisher (ex-Mk Dons)
??) Who is the back up keeper when Benda leaves?
Right-Back
22) Joel Latibeaudiere
26) Kyle Naughton
Left-Back
3) Ryan Manning
29) Matthew Sorinola - £350k Union SG (ex-MK Dons)
Centre-Back
5) Ben Cabango
16) Brandon Cooper
23) Nathan Wood - £300k (Middlesboro)
6) Harry Darling - £2.3m (Mk Dons)
Defensive Midfield
4) Jay Fulton
7) Joe Allen - £Free (Stoke City)
Centre Midfield
8) Matt Grimes
28) Liam Walsh
Attacking Midfield
12) Jamie Patterson
45) Cameron Congreve
31) Oliver Cooper
Right-Wing
??)
??)
Left-Wing
11) Morgan Whittaker
Striker
17) Joel Piroe
9) Michael Obafemi
20) Liam Cullen
Offski ?
13) Steven Benda
2) Ryan Bennett
15) Nathaniel Ogbeta
41) Jordan Garrick
14) Kyle Joseph
10) Olivier Ntcham
Potentially coming in?
Harvey White - LOAN?
Most promising youngsters that haven't had a go yet...
19) Tivonge Rushesha
48) Joel Cotterill
25) Lewis Webb
35) Lincoln McFadyen
36) Ben Lloyd
37) Daniel Williams
38) Cameron Evans ? (Did he go to Swindon?)
Gone
Flynn Downes - £10m
Korey Smith - £Free
Ben Hamer - £Free
Yann Dhanda - £Free | |
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| The Squad 2022-2023 on 22:47 - Aug 20 with 670 views | Kerouac |
| The Squad 2022-2023 on 17:25 - Jul 25 by Kerouac |
I agree, sort of, not sure the first XI is fine.
To me we are just about able to put out a competitive XI with a weak bench.
This is the best I can come up with...
Option 1 -
4-3-3
-------------------------------Fisher ----------------------------------
------------------- Cabango --------- Darling ----------------------
Naughton ----------------------------------------------- Manning
---------------------- Allen ---------- Grimes ----------------------
------------------------------ Ntcham --------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------- Obafemi ----------------------- Patterson -----------
-------------------------------- Piroe ----------------------------------
Subs: Latibeaudiere (RB/CB), Wood (CB/LB), Fulton (DM), Sorinola (LWB), Garrick (RWB), Congreve (CAM), Joseph (ST
Option 2 -
3-5-2
-------------------------------Fisher ----------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------- Naughton -------------------------------
-------------- Cabango ------------------ Wood -------------------
------------------------------ Allen -----------------------------------
Garrick -------- Ntcham ---------- Grimes------------ Manning
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------- Obafemi -------- Piroe --------------------------
Subs: Latibeaudiere (RB/CB), Darling (CB), Fulton (DM), Sorinola (LWB), Patterson (CAM), Congreve (CAM), Joseph (ST/RWB)
Morgan Whittaker is the strongest player not to make either bench.
If we lose Piroe or if Grimes/Allen picked up a nasty injury?
We are screwed.
Also there is no width and no pace other than Obafemi's pace....oh and I nearly forgot, our goalkeeper is a clown.
FLAWS
Option 1
- Our goalkeeper is a clown
- Naughton doesn't have the pace to deal with young wingers in the Championship anymore (he can cope at sweeper because he is central, facing the play, is intelligent and sees everything...he has the extra yard in his brain). At full-back he will get exposed one on one against pace and be forced to bring them down = cards and 10 men etc.
- Midfield. Allen is excellent but is getting on, has looked off the pace playing for Wales for me. He will need rotating and subbing on occasion. Fulton is solid enough. The White loan actually makes some sense.
Ntcham is injury prone and hasn't looked fit last season, although he can play. He is weak in the tackle and is not defensively minded, doesn't anticipate danger...as the attacking midfielder he is fine, but I see some counting him as a CM...if he has to play CM for a spell we will be weakened.
- Piroe is likely to go...Martin is also likely to play him deeper instead of leading the line, where he is best. We should be looking to use Obafemi's pace in the channels...we won't do this though, 'cos Martin.
Patterson seems to be a confidence player and a stroppy sod. He has ability and is creative...he also has little pace and has a tendency to go into his shell and play safe passes when he is not feeling it. I don't trust him.
It would be nice if Congreve could take over and hit the ground running, but I don't get why everybody is assuming this will be the case. We can't count on it.
Option 2
- Our goalkeeper is a clown
- Our Centre-backs look stronger here and we have depth...BUT...
- We have no wing-backs worthy of the name. Ogbeta might have been able to adapt to this level but Martin knows best  .
Garrick is the most natural player we have that fits the RWB role but we seem determined to waste years of developing another player before getting shot without giving them a run in the side. It seems to be how we roll.
Joseph, I am convinced could be taught to do a decent job there, but he is another who is not getting a look in.
Manning can play left-back, looks comfortable in midfield, is useful in forward areas, likes a dip and can score...but he doesn't have genuine pace ( he has also been playing CB under Martin so will take time to get good at the role.
Sorinola looks crap. Prove me wrong son, I would love it if you do.
- We have depth at Attacking midfield but it is likely that Martin will stick Patterson out on the left in a formation like this...he won't do a good job there, he doesn't have the tools and it wastes what he is good at. Patterson is best inbetween the lines linking up with strikers.
- Again, two top strikers for our division, but one is likely heading out the door and the other one, Obafemi, relies on Piroe more than most realise.
I do think Joseph could step up here and do a decent job here but he, nor anyone we sign to replace Piroe is likely to fill Piroe's boots.
Whittaker is a good option coming off the bench up front but has not been used so far and is most likely out the door.
Conclusion
I know that some seem to be excited and think we're going to have a shot at going up this year but I just don't see it.
We haven't changed anything tactically with the 3-4-2-1 formation Martin prefers. We haven't addressed the issues we had other than buying 2 centre-backs (but what seems to be overlooked is that we have kept Latibeaudiere who doesn't seem to fit in at right-back or centre-back anymore...not slagging the bloke, I think he can cut it at this level...it's just that we have overstocked at CB and not addressed our issues at wing-back, wing or goalkeeper.
If you try the same things over and over why would you expect a different result, I don't understand...but hopefully a miracle will happen. [Post edited 25 Jul 2022 17:52]
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So far I have seen little to change my pre-season opinions.
Martin has made a mess of our squad.
Below, I have underlined Martin signings and made some updated comments...
SQUAD
Manager
Russell Martin
Goalkeeper
1) Andrew Fisher (ex-Mk Dons) - Martin's player, he has weakened us
13) Stephen Benda - Has destroyed his confidence, looking to leave
Right-Back
22) Joel Latibeaudiere - Injured...may have done a decent job at right-back, was actually played on the right-wing by Martin though
26) Kyle Naughton
Left-Back
3) Ryan Manning
29) Matthew Sorinola - £350k Union SG (ex-MK Dons) - Terrible Martin signing #2...actually right-footed
15) Nathaniel Ogbeta - Persona non-grata
Centre-Back
5) Ben Cabango
16) Brandon Cooper
23) Nathan Wood - £300k (Middlesboro) - The jury is out, has potential, makes silly mistakes
6) Harry Darling - £2.3m (ex-Mk Dons) - Looks a player, expensive though
Defensive Midfield
4) Jay Fulton
7) Joe Allen - £Free (Stoke City) - Joey is Joey, the question is; 'Can he get fit enough to finish games and stay fit?'
Centre Midfield
8) Matt Grimes - Everything is his fault, allegedly
28) Liam Walsh - What is the point in us paying him a wage?
Attacking Midfield
10) Olivier Ntcham - Big wage, considering leaving, question mark on his fitness...can play though
12) Jamie Patterson - Frozen out altogether
45) Cameron Congreve
31) Oliver Cooper
Right-Wing
41) Jordan Garrick - Why didn't Martin try Garrick out at Right-Wing-back? He needs a player here. Garrick is better than Sorinola, I can tell you that much
14) Kyle Joseph - Would have been a useful striker to come off the bench or on the right-wing - Martin has shipped him out though
Left-Wing
11) Morgan Whittaker - Would have been a useful attacking option off the bench - Martin has shipped him out though
Striker
17) Joel Piroe - Obviously fallen out with Martin, doesn't want to be here
9) Michael Obafemi - Without Piroe firing on all cylinders and with no width in the team, Martin has a lot less chances
20) Liam Cullen
Using Martin's preferred formation and the players he has at his disposal what does our first and second XI look like, as of his selections so far this season TO DATE....
1st XI
------------------------- Fisher -----------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------- Naughton --------------------------
-------- Wood ---------------------------- Darling -------
Latibeaudiere --------------------------------- Manning
------------------ Allen --------- Grimes ------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------
----------- Piroe ------------------------- Ntcham --------
----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------- Obafemi --------------------------
2nd XI
------------------------- Benda -----------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------ Abdullai ---------------------------
-------- Cabango ------------------------ Cooper -------
Congreve? ------------------------------------- Sorinola
------------------ Fulton --------- Walsh -----------------
----------------------------------------------------------------
------- Ollie Cooper ------------------- Patterson ------
----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------- Cullen ----------------------------- | |
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