| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? 08:57 - Jul 1 with 2903 views | TomRAFC |
[Post edited 1 Jul 2016 8:57]
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| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? on 09:02 - Jul 1 with 2884 views | TomRAFC |
Whilst we're talking politics then...
Most of the MPs never wanted Corbyn as leader and a large part of me suspects this has very little to do with his EU campaigning and everything to do with a chance to get shot of him.
That being said he was elected with a pretty large majority and under a relatively new voting system as well.
No one can really argue whether or not he has a mandate from the party members but can he really avoid being forced out given the strength of feeling amongst the MPs?
Whether you like him or hate it's probably fair to say he was never going to be given a fair chance at the job by both the party elite and the media. [Post edited 1 Jul 2016 9:02]
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| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? on 09:46 - Jul 1 with 2828 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? on 09:02 - Jul 1 by TomRAFC |
Whilst we're talking politics then...
Most of the MPs never wanted Corbyn as leader and a large part of me suspects this has very little to do with his EU campaigning and everything to do with a chance to get shot of him.
That being said he was elected with a pretty large majority and under a relatively new voting system as well.
No one can really argue whether or not he has a mandate from the party members but can he really avoid being forced out given the strength of feeling amongst the MPs?
Whether you like him or hate it's probably fair to say he was never going to be given a fair chance at the job by both the party elite and the media. [Post edited 1 Jul 2016 9:02]
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Totally genuine guy, destroyed by blairites and Murdoch, they are frightened of a true opposition |  |
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| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? on 10:22 - Jul 1 with 2782 views | mingthemerciless |
He should stay as Labour leader until voted out by the membership. The Parliamentary Party is not the Labour Party.
As for the two put up to oppose him that haven't got the balls to make a move yet - Angela Eagle and Owen Smith, I had to look in this mornings paper to find out who they were. | | | |
| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? on 13:13 - Jul 1 with 2665 views | electricblue |
Im in two minds about Corbyn.
We in our house voted him in as leader.
But with his recent lack of explanation of why he wont stand down etc as supporters we should be told.
I feel the his postion and the support he had last year is waning.....
The more he keeps his gob shut the less support he will get.....
From the moment corbyn won the leadership election the blairites (red tories) never wanted him as leader not just because of his views etc but i dont think the MPs and other party members like joe public having a say...
Very undemocratic.......
So want him to stay as leader..
But i also want him to win another leadership contest and if he does how many more leadership contests is he going to face befire the blairites get their own way...! |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? on 13:19 - Jul 1 with 2643 views | MoonyDale |
I'd deselct the whole traitorous bunch, he's the leader and just about the only honest one around these days. |  |
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| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? on 13:37 - Jul 1 with 2616 views | tony_roch975 |
Don't like the focus on personalities (Boris, Farage or Corbyn) - it's policies that matter & I support Corbyn's so he should stay. He does need to focus more on developing and advocating policies. Just as the Leave result should be respected (no 2nd EU Referendum), the Labour Party ordinary Members' vote for Corbyn less than a year ago should be respected (even higher % than the vote for Leave). The back-sliding of the Tories (they'll never invoke Article 50) and the Parliamentary Labour Party both show the establishment will never let the people have their way! Interesting future scenario of UKIP & Socialists together at the barricades. Tory & Labour Parties are now both such a fudge of people with entirely different beliefs pretending they agree, that they represent no-one. The only way to stop this and have our (opposing) voices heard in Westminster is PR. Any UKIP voters out there, call on your Party to join with Labour, Greens etc & demand PR's introduction before supporting whatever comes out of the current EU negotiation. | |
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| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? on 15:43 - Jul 1 with 2541 views | 49thseason |
| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? on 13:37 - Jul 1 by tony_roch975 |
Don't like the focus on personalities (Boris, Farage or Corbyn) - it's policies that matter & I support Corbyn's so he should stay. He does need to focus more on developing and advocating policies. Just as the Leave result should be respected (no 2nd EU Referendum), the Labour Party ordinary Members' vote for Corbyn less than a year ago should be respected (even higher % than the vote for Leave). The back-sliding of the Tories (they'll never invoke Article 50) and the Parliamentary Labour Party both show the establishment will never let the people have their way! Interesting future scenario of UKIP & Socialists together at the barricades. Tory & Labour Parties are now both such a fudge of people with entirely different beliefs pretending they agree, that they represent no-one. The only way to stop this and have our (opposing) voices heard in Westminster is PR. Any UKIP voters out there, call on your Party to join with Labour, Greens etc & demand PR's introduction before supporting whatever comes out of the current EU negotiation. |
Ahh, proportional representation! I wondered how Labour was going to dig itself out of the crevasse that it is currently trying to dig even deeper in the hope that there will be an escalator at the bottom
There is only one problem, you need to be in Government to bring about PR and given that the chances are that Labour is about to de-select 174 MPs and replace them with God-knows-who, I can't really envisage it happening anytime soon. The internal shenanigans of the Labour party have created a problem which has only one solution: a split party with Blairites on the one hand and so-called Socialists on the other. The Blairites cannot gain control of the local constituencies and the Socialists are unelectable. which brings us to, New New Labour Vs Old Original Labour. Oh well, never mind, must remember to buy more popcorn. This is going to be fun. |  | | |
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| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? on 16:08 - Jul 1 with 2519 views | tony_roch975 |
| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? on 15:43 - Jul 1 by 49thseason |
Ahh, proportional representation! I wondered how Labour was going to dig itself out of the crevasse that it is currently trying to dig even deeper in the hope that there will be an escalator at the bottom
There is only one problem, you need to be in Government to bring about PR and given that the chances are that Labour is about to de-select 174 MPs and replace them with God-knows-who, I can't really envisage it happening anytime soon. The internal shenanigans of the Labour party have created a problem which has only one solution: a split party with Blairites on the one hand and so-called Socialists on the other. The Blairites cannot gain control of the local constituencies and the Socialists are unelectable. which brings us to, New New Labour Vs Old Original Labour. Oh well, never mind, must remember to buy more popcorn. This is going to be fun. |
The LibDems got a vote on (pretend) PR with 62 MPs; who's to say UKIP won't have the same chance in 2020. It's not just Labour which needs to split - the 'so-called' one-nation Tories are equally far apart from all the current Tory leadership candidates . And the Blairites won't need to control constituencies cos they'll be in a new Party with the Cameroons & Lib Dems - a real 'centre' party with a real left-wing & right-wing alternative, | |
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| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? on 17:53 - Jul 1 with 2438 views | SuddenLad |
Leave Corbyn where he is. He is doing the work of two men. The Chuckle Brothers. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? on 18:39 - Jul 1 with 2402 views | ColDale |
If we were living in a world of PR, then fair enough Corbyn could remain. But in a first past the post system, it's all about being in power. You can have the most eloquent, caring, passionate, principled Labour Leader of all time, but if he's in opposition then that means one thing, and one thing only - a Conservative government.
There's no disagreeing with the fact that he was voted in by the members. But those who voted him in contained many who had rightly grown disillusioned with a toothless Labour Party under Miliband and fed up with bland middle ground politics. Who can blame them? But look at the map of who voted in / remain and you can clearly see that outside of the capital, it was Farage and Johnson that people looked to rather than credible opposition.
But many of the others who elected Corbyn weren't disillusioned Labour voters. Many had signed up having not been Labour voters - we even had Tory newspapers urging its readers to sign up for £3 to get Corbyn in, along with others. its the equivalent of Bury doing an online poll to pick their next manager - of course we'd be all over it. Was the party hijacked? Not quite, but not a million miles off. I'd be surprised if Corbyn would have elected had the vote been restricted to pre-election Labour Party members.
But now we are having the rhetoric spouted by McDonnell this week isn't a million miles apart from what Farage has been preaching, All this about being against the establishment in every other sentence is straight from the Farage hymn book, and the Momentum sponsored decrying of every opponent being a Blairite when its blatantly clear thats not the case.
Furthermore, I don't see an issue with being labelled Blairite. I'm 42 and every election has been won during that time by the Conservatives or by a faction within it, except or when Blair stood. There's a huge difference between appealing to the centre ground and being a Red Tory (which is student politics at best). Forget the centre, and you can forget being in power - Cameron knows it, and thats why he almost portrayed himself as a Tory Blair much to the fury of his own party's right wing (completely mirroring Labour). He knew that a Michael Howard Conservatives had no hope at all of getting in (Major knew it too - its nothing new).
The Blair years were good years for this country. Unemployment was low, investment in public services was good, economically we were spot on and there was a genuine feelgood factor. This isn't fairy tale stuff. Of course, it was tainted by the Iraq war, but going into that war was a one off decision rather than a key philosophy of a centre left government. People complained about the spin but we live in a world where Dacre and Murdoch dictate public opinion - of course they had to be media savvy (and loved the leaked email from that claret Campbell to McKenzie today) - just look at the email from Mrs Gove this week.
Labour needs to regroup. A new leaders is needed (personally would prefer Tom Watson), and a cabinet established which encompasses all sides of the Labour Party and that must include a place for Corbyn should he wish to. The front bench needs to involve all the major players and must present itself as a team, and ready to govern at a day's notice. |  | | |
| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? on 18:52 - Jul 1 with 2386 views | mingthemerciless |
No point being in power if all you do is ape the Tories. Blair was a disaster for the Labour movement. History will judge him much more harshly than you do. | | | |
| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? on 19:07 - Jul 1 with 2370 views | 1mark1 |
| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? on 18:39 - Jul 1 by ColDale |
If we were living in a world of PR, then fair enough Corbyn could remain. But in a first past the post system, it's all about being in power. You can have the most eloquent, caring, passionate, principled Labour Leader of all time, but if he's in opposition then that means one thing, and one thing only - a Conservative government.
There's no disagreeing with the fact that he was voted in by the members. But those who voted him in contained many who had rightly grown disillusioned with a toothless Labour Party under Miliband and fed up with bland middle ground politics. Who can blame them? But look at the map of who voted in / remain and you can clearly see that outside of the capital, it was Farage and Johnson that people looked to rather than credible opposition.
But many of the others who elected Corbyn weren't disillusioned Labour voters. Many had signed up having not been Labour voters - we even had Tory newspapers urging its readers to sign up for £3 to get Corbyn in, along with others. its the equivalent of Bury doing an online poll to pick their next manager - of course we'd be all over it. Was the party hijacked? Not quite, but not a million miles off. I'd be surprised if Corbyn would have elected had the vote been restricted to pre-election Labour Party members.
But now we are having the rhetoric spouted by McDonnell this week isn't a million miles apart from what Farage has been preaching, All this about being against the establishment in every other sentence is straight from the Farage hymn book, and the Momentum sponsored decrying of every opponent being a Blairite when its blatantly clear thats not the case.
Furthermore, I don't see an issue with being labelled Blairite. I'm 42 and every election has been won during that time by the Conservatives or by a faction within it, except or when Blair stood. There's a huge difference between appealing to the centre ground and being a Red Tory (which is student politics at best). Forget the centre, and you can forget being in power - Cameron knows it, and thats why he almost portrayed himself as a Tory Blair much to the fury of his own party's right wing (completely mirroring Labour). He knew that a Michael Howard Conservatives had no hope at all of getting in (Major knew it too - its nothing new).
The Blair years were good years for this country. Unemployment was low, investment in public services was good, economically we were spot on and there was a genuine feelgood factor. This isn't fairy tale stuff. Of course, it was tainted by the Iraq war, but going into that war was a one off decision rather than a key philosophy of a centre left government. People complained about the spin but we live in a world where Dacre and Murdoch dictate public opinion - of course they had to be media savvy (and loved the leaked email from that claret Campbell to McKenzie today) - just look at the email from Mrs Gove this week.
Labour needs to regroup. A new leaders is needed (personally would prefer Tom Watson), and a cabinet established which encompasses all sides of the Labour Party and that must include a place for Corbyn should he wish to. The front bench needs to involve all the major players and must present itself as a team, and ready to govern at a day's notice. |
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But many of the others who elected Corbyn weren't disillusioned Labour voters. Many had signed up having not been Labour voters - we even had Tory newspapers urging its readers to sign up for £3 to get Corbyn in, along with others. its the equivalent of Bury doing an online poll to pick their next manager - of course we'd be all over it. Was the party hijacked? Not quite, but not a million miles off. I'd be surprised if Corbyn would have elected had the vote been restricted to pre-election Lab"
Only a very small number of none Labour supporters got a vote. The vast majority that signed up were vetted to make sure they weren't supporter or members of other parties, and also that they were down as being Labour pledged voters from previous elections. I know this to be true, as when I tried to register as a Trade Union member supporter, I was weeded out, and quite rightly too(I Knew I wouldn't get a vote, just wanted to test the system). I know all of this from people in the know within Labour and the Trade Unions, locally, regionally and nationally. If anything they were too strict on stopping people, many of which should have been allowed to vote. Of course though, the so called Labour voting media like the Gaurdian and Mirror as well as the media that hates Lab, have put forward this myth to try to understand why JC got such a massive vote. Even within existing full members, there was a massive vote for him.
As far as the recent EU vote, well many Labour voters have always been Euro sceptical just like many of its leading figures. Same with the Trade Unions. So no surprise that 40% voted out of the Labour vote, in fact I was shocked, as were many inside the Unions and Labour that many more of the Lab vote didn't vote out. JC was far more in touch with Lab votes than, the likes of Alan Johnson etc who just wanted to convey the LIE that everything is ok with EU, and that within the single market you could control immigration. Also JC refused to join in the exaggerated claims of Gideon about effects on the economy and individuals finances. I believe if one of the so called moderates had been leader, leave would have won by a bigger margin. To me, JC did well to get as many Labour voters to vote remain as hey did. |  |
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| Should Jeremy Corbyn stay as Labour leader? on 19:41 - Jul 1 with 2333 views | ChaffRAFC |
Great post Col. Agree almost completely. My choice would be, and was when Corbyn was elected, Andy Burnham. |  |
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