| Trust March newsletter. 19:03 - Mar 1 with 5414 views | 442Dale |
Another interesting read. There’s an important survey around finding out how fans feel about being either a fan owned model or going down the investor route.
Unless I’ve missed it, it’s disappointing that there’s been no further updates around the Volunteer Army which the club agreed to actioning by the end of January. Another month gone, time lost which creates unnecessary issues possibly leading to a feeling of detachment amongst a supporter base who want to help and increasing the chances of apathy growing when we can least afford it.
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| Trust March newsletter. on 19:19 - Mar 1 with 4265 views | IOMDale |
Who was rumoured investor? |  | | |
| Trust March newsletter. on 20:31 - Mar 1 with 4140 views | judd |
| Trust March newsletter. on 19:19 - Mar 1 by IOMDale |
Who was rumoured investor? |
Graham Parker |  |
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| Trust March newsletter. on 20:41 - Mar 1 with 4094 views | fitzochris |
The survey could do with a caveat on the “yes” option.
“Yes, but with full collaboration with supporters.” |  |
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| Trust March newsletter. on 20:42 - Mar 1 with 4092 views | IOMDale |
| Trust March newsletter. on 20:31 - Mar 1 by judd |
Graham Parker |
Thought he’d have been sniffing around Fleetwood (Mac). | | | |
| Trust March newsletter. on 20:52 - Mar 1 with 4051 views | judd |
| Trust March newsletter. on 20:42 - Mar 1 by IOMDale |
Thought he’d have been sniffing around Fleetwood (Mac). |
Hey Lord, don't ask me questions | |
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| Trust March newsletter. on 20:53 - Mar 1 with 4046 views | 442Dale |
| Trust March newsletter. on 20:41 - Mar 1 by fitzochris |
The survey could do with a caveat on the “yes” option.
“Yes, but with full collaboration with supporters.” |
Or, on the back of a previous direction being clearly established (see below), it could have been more along the lines of:
Would you prefer Rochdale AFC to…
a) remain fan owned
b) look for outside investment with full involvement of supporters
From January 2022:
“Our Supporters have been unequivocal about their desire for the Club to remain a Fans Owned Club, and we as a Fan’s Organisation have acted on their behalf and will continue to do so to ensure that always remains the case”
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2022/01/keep-rochdale-afc-a-fan-owned-club/ | |
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| Trust March newsletter. on 21:08 - Mar 1 with 3991 views | Rodingdale |
The statement talks about the ‘quality’ of bids from bidders. Obviously the prospectus for investment will set this out clearly, in the interests of transparency it would good for the trust to have sight of that and perhaps share with members. Having a clear selection criteria will enable the club to demonstrate a fair selection process, we’re for example the EFL ever wanted us to demonstrate we’d conducted an objective evaluation of bids. |  | | |
| Trust March newsletter. on 21:31 - Mar 1 with 3926 views | fitzochris |
| Trust March newsletter. on 21:08 - Mar 1 by Rodingdale |
The statement talks about the ‘quality’ of bids from bidders. Obviously the prospectus for investment will set this out clearly, in the interests of transparency it would good for the trust to have sight of that and perhaps share with members. Having a clear selection criteria will enable the club to demonstrate a fair selection process, we’re for example the EFL ever wanted us to demonstrate we’d conducted an objective evaluation of bids. |
The EFL may be irrelevant if this drags on beyond May. | |
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| Trust March newsletter. on 22:23 - Mar 1 with 3810 views | TomRAFC |
| Trust March newsletter. on 20:41 - Mar 1 by fitzochris |
The survey could do with a caveat on the “yes” option.
“Yes, but with full collaboration with supporters.” |
Agreed.
A multi club model with other fan owned stable clubs, I'm cautiously interested.
A majority shareholder who has indiscriminate power, that's probably a no from me. Not a 100% no. I expect the standards they would be held to wouldn't be welcomed by most investors, majority shareholder or not. | |
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| Trust March newsletter. on 22:29 - Mar 1 with 3774 views | D_Alien |
| Trust March newsletter. on 22:23 - Mar 1 by TomRAFC |
Agreed.
A multi club model with other fan owned stable clubs, I'm cautiously interested.
A majority shareholder who has indiscriminate power, that's probably a no from me. Not a 100% no. I expect the standards they would be held to wouldn't be welcomed by most investors, majority shareholder or not. |
That's a real issue. A scenario could arise, and in fairly short order, whereby a suitable investor isn't attracted, the fans are unable to buy more shares in any significant number and the current board are unable to make further investment
The two potential paths from there are:
1) the club debt grows and becomes unsustainable
2) the standards to which we'd currently wish to hold an investor become weakened simply in order to survive
There could be other paths, i suppose, which others might be able to allude to... |  |
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| Trust March newsletter. on 07:32 - Mar 2 with 3582 views | Dalenet |
| Trust March newsletter. on 22:29 - Mar 1 by D_Alien |
That's a real issue. A scenario could arise, and in fairly short order, whereby a suitable investor isn't attracted, the fans are unable to buy more shares in any significant number and the current board are unable to make further investment
The two potential paths from there are:
1) the club debt grows and becomes unsustainable
2) the standards to which we'd currently wish to hold an investor become weakened simply in order to survive
There could be other paths, i suppose, which others might be able to allude to... |
Slashing costs is the obvious route to sustainability. Just so long as you cut the right costs. The Board will now need to be writing Plan B or C. Our black hole of £1m pa (if true) will soon be double that if relegated and so significant cost management is required.
I remain completely baffled on the strategy for outside investment. We seem to imply that we need it to survive as we have a trading black hole each season. A sugar daddy may close that gap for a few years. But on the other hand the Board suggest that we need £5m to invest in facilities such as the training ground. That is more than somebody buying our remaining shares and plugging any losses. Our current worth is around £2m. Why would you be prepared to stump up £5-£10m unless you took full control and tried to grow the club to sell on in the future? I think we need to manage expectations here because it is two years on from us 'being in play' and nobody credible has stepped forward so far. I get that we need some investment - but we can't have it both ways [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 17:23]
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| Trust March newsletter. on 11:38 - Mar 2 with 3391 views | fitzochris |
From Simon's first interview with me upon his appointment:
“It may be that we come to the decision in the short or long term that selling the club to an investor is indeed the best option − if it is, then we will go about this in the right way, ensuring shareholders and supporters are informed of how the investor wants to run the club, where the money is coming from and how they want to structure any purchase. It is then up to shareholders, many of whom are fans, to make that decision.”
That's all I now ask. So, it's a 'yes', but only as long as the above is adhered to. | |
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| Trust March newsletter. on 11:56 - Mar 2 with 3364 views | D_Alien |
| Trust March newsletter. on 11:38 - Mar 2 by fitzochris |
From Simon's first interview with me upon his appointment:
“It may be that we come to the decision in the short or long term that selling the club to an investor is indeed the best option − if it is, then we will go about this in the right way, ensuring shareholders and supporters are informed of how the investor wants to run the club, where the money is coming from and how they want to structure any purchase. It is then up to shareholders, many of whom are fans, to make that decision.”
That's all I now ask. So, it's a 'yes', but only as long as the above is adhered to. |
Dalenet (preceding post) is of course correct about the urgent need to cut costs - by how much and how is another matter
As others have pointed out, other clubs seem to be keeping their heads above water in the National League on gates in the 1500-2000 region, which should be doable for us
Before we reach that stage, debt is likely to grow which will make the club increasingly less attractive to an investor, who hasn't yet been found for a club in the EFL
Should an investor come along, their proposal will almost inevitably divide shareholders. The BoD can only recommend them, should they decide to sell their own shareholdings and in the event of the vote going the other way (i.e. not to sell to the preferred bidder), there is, as far as i can see, nothing to stop the BoD selling anyway. It may not even be out of despair at the vote, but simply because they themselves can no longer sustain the ongoing costs, if the cost gap hasn't been met
As the combined majority shareholders of course, their votes would hold sway in any case
I'd ask anyone with an interest in this matter - would YOU continue to incur financial liability in such a situation? At the potential cost of your home / family life? And especially after the dire abuse / threats on social media, or demands they be "held to account" for purely footballing decisions?
So whilst i fully agree with the request you put to the BoD in your post in principle, just how much can they realistically comply with it?
Dalenet's point about slashing costs therefore becomes all the more urgent, and my request to the BoD is to be up front, absolutely honest and transparent about this with shareholders. Only by failure to do this would i have any gripe with them, having already saved Dale in our most recent hour of need
[Post edited 2 Mar 2023 12:03]
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| Trust March newsletter. on 12:09 - Mar 2 with 3335 views | A_Newby |
What I want ideally is for the Dale to retain league 2 status, build a squad that gains promotion and then challenges for a top half finish in league 1. I want to go back to the 2016-17 season.
I would not like this this, however, to be attempted in such a way that places excessive debts on the club which could ultimately lead to the club’s demise (the Bury way).
I would ideally prefer a fan owned model but accept that this may no longer be possible.
No matter what ownership model the club has I would like the club to be as SELF-SUSTAINING as possible with operating income maximised and costs minimised.
I do not want the situation where a large capital injection (loans, share issues, donations) is needed annually.
I do think that the only way to achieve this and to ensure the long-term viability of the club is to grow the fanbase to generate the income needed even if it takes a decade or more.
I do agree with the point raised by D’Alien that out of necessity we may drift into having to accept an owner who does not meet the “standards” we would like.
I also agree with points raised by Dalenet we will need to slash costs next season no matter what league we are in. |  | | |
| Trust March newsletter. on 12:10 - Mar 2 with 3333 views | electricblue |
| Trust March newsletter. on 20:31 - Mar 1 by judd |
Graham Parker |
And who is Graham Parker! |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Trust March newsletter. on 13:14 - Mar 2 with 3216 views | fitzochris |
| Trust March newsletter. on 12:10 - Mar 2 by electricblue |
And who is Graham Parker! |
No, that’s Pete Townshend. | |
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| Trust March newsletter. on 13:18 - Mar 2 with 3210 views | fitzochris |
| Trust March newsletter. on 12:09 - Mar 2 by A_Newby |
What I want ideally is for the Dale to retain league 2 status, build a squad that gains promotion and then challenges for a top half finish in league 1. I want to go back to the 2016-17 season.
I would not like this this, however, to be attempted in such a way that places excessive debts on the club which could ultimately lead to the club’s demise (the Bury way).
I would ideally prefer a fan owned model but accept that this may no longer be possible.
No matter what ownership model the club has I would like the club to be as SELF-SUSTAINING as possible with operating income maximised and costs minimised.
I do not want the situation where a large capital injection (loans, share issues, donations) is needed annually.
I do think that the only way to achieve this and to ensure the long-term viability of the club is to grow the fanbase to generate the income needed even if it takes a decade or more.
I do agree with the point raised by D’Alien that out of necessity we may drift into having to accept an owner who does not meet the “standards” we would like.
I also agree with points raised by Dalenet we will need to slash costs next season no matter what league we are in. |
As long as they comply in the spirit in which that quote was intended, that’s fine. What I don’t want is a blind-sale situation that we were faced with in 2021 - an outcome that was thankfully thwarted by hard-working supporters and ultimately led to the formation of the board we have now. | |
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| Trust March newsletter. on 14:27 - Mar 2 with 3099 views | judd |
| Trust March newsletter. on 12:10 - Mar 2 by electricblue |
And who is Graham Parker! |
Just a rumour | |
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| Trust March newsletter. on 14:37 - Mar 2 with 3083 views | A_Newby |
| Trust March newsletter. on 13:18 - Mar 2 by fitzochris |
As long as they comply in the spirit in which that quote was intended, that’s fine. What I don’t want is a blind-sale situation that we were faced with in 2021 - an outcome that was thankfully thwarted by hard-working supporters and ultimately led to the formation of the board we have now. |
I agree about the principle that shareholders / trust / fans are kept informed about any new potential owners' plans and funding. I also think that the quicker a new "honest" investor appears on the scene the more likely it is that this would happen.
I think the problem is that the longer the wait for such an investor then the more likely it is that the "standard" of investor will drop.
I wonder now what the shareholder's / trust / fan's reactions would have been if we been privy to the full proposals for the takeover by Dan Altman and Emre Marcelli and how they intended to finance it?
When Dan and Emre were looking at taking over RAFC, unlike with other potential owners, I understood their motives.
It was essentially to prove the effectiveness of their software and methodology to enhance the value of their company.
They proposed to use Rochdale AFC as a vehicle for this, and their aim at the time was to get Rochdale promoted to the championship, thus we would benefit and they would benefit as our interests aligned.
I wonder if they are still around? [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 14:44]
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| Trust March newsletter. on 15:01 - Mar 2 with 3033 views | fitzochris |
| Trust March newsletter. on 14:37 - Mar 2 by A_Newby |
I agree about the principle that shareholders / trust / fans are kept informed about any new potential owners' plans and funding. I also think that the quicker a new "honest" investor appears on the scene the more likely it is that this would happen.
I think the problem is that the longer the wait for such an investor then the more likely it is that the "standard" of investor will drop.
I wonder now what the shareholder's / trust / fan's reactions would have been if we been privy to the full proposals for the takeover by Dan Altman and Emre Marcelli and how they intended to finance it?
When Dan and Emre were looking at taking over RAFC, unlike with other potential owners, I understood their motives.
It was essentially to prove the effectiveness of their software and methodology to enhance the value of their company.
They proposed to use Rochdale AFC as a vehicle for this, and their aim at the time was to get Rochdale promoted to the championship, thus we would benefit and they would benefit as our interests aligned.
I wonder if they are still around? [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 14:44]
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I remember their motives well given I broke the story ;)
They sold their shares to Morton House, so it would be a no from me in terms of them getting back involved. Also, I'm sure they planned to use other people's money to finance their ambitions. | |
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| Trust March newsletter. on 16:54 - Mar 2 with 2852 views | 49thseason |
| Trust March newsletter. on 15:01 - Mar 2 by fitzochris |
I remember their motives well given I broke the story ;)
They sold their shares to Morton House, so it would be a no from me in terms of them getting back involved. Also, I'm sure they planned to use other people's money to finance their ambitions. |
I thought Altman and his colleague had pulled the plug on any takeover plans because of what they had " heard" about happenings inside the club. They may have got wind of the Chairmans desire to sell up and Bottom's willingness to help him, or that the cash situation was deteriorating quickly.. who knows? I cant blame them for selling their shares to MH given the multples of their investment they were probably offered. They wanted out and got a return on their investment, well done them, they were hardly the only ones who jumped ship, and their attachment to Rochdale was probably tenuous at best. I doubt they will want to get financially involved again, but I think its worth staying in touch if only to run a few transfer targets past them now and again. It might be worth asking if they know a US investor that might want to get involved? I don't think they will have an axe to grind against RAFC. |  | | |
| Trust March newsletter. on 16:55 - Mar 2 with 2849 views | TomRAFC |
| Trust March newsletter. on 14:37 - Mar 2 by A_Newby |
I agree about the principle that shareholders / trust / fans are kept informed about any new potential owners' plans and funding. I also think that the quicker a new "honest" investor appears on the scene the more likely it is that this would happen.
I think the problem is that the longer the wait for such an investor then the more likely it is that the "standard" of investor will drop.
I wonder now what the shareholder's / trust / fan's reactions would have been if we been privy to the full proposals for the takeover by Dan Altman and Emre Marcelli and how they intended to finance it?
When Dan and Emre were looking at taking over RAFC, unlike with other potential owners, I understood their motives.
It was essentially to prove the effectiveness of their software and methodology to enhance the value of their company.
They proposed to use Rochdale AFC as a vehicle for this, and their aim at the time was to get Rochdale promoted to the championship, thus we would benefit and they would benefit as our interests aligned.
I wonder if they are still around? [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 14:44]
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Altman and Marcelli wanted to finance their project through 0% interest loans to the club. They could put the money in, attempt their project, and at any point demand back every penny they spent. Zero risk for them, catastrophic for the club. | |
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| Trust March newsletter. on 17:15 - Mar 2 with 2791 views | fitzochris |
| Trust March newsletter. on 16:54 - Mar 2 by 49thseason |
I thought Altman and his colleague had pulled the plug on any takeover plans because of what they had " heard" about happenings inside the club. They may have got wind of the Chairmans desire to sell up and Bottom's willingness to help him, or that the cash situation was deteriorating quickly.. who knows? I cant blame them for selling their shares to MH given the multples of their investment they were probably offered. They wanted out and got a return on their investment, well done them, they were hardly the only ones who jumped ship, and their attachment to Rochdale was probably tenuous at best. I doubt they will want to get financially involved again, but I think its worth staying in touch if only to run a few transfer targets past them now and again. It might be worth asking if they know a US investor that might want to get involved? I don't think they will have an axe to grind against RAFC. |
The club might have an axe to grind against them, though? Everyone who sold their shares to Morton House put the club at risk. They put themselves before the club in other words.
Yes, their link to the club is tenuous at best.
As I’ve written many times, finding an investor who actually cares about the club and who won’t do it harm if the shit hits the fan, is going to be very difficult.
A lottery-winning supporter is the only hope there, and that isn’t going to happen any time soon.
I think any investor, therefore, is going to come with some degree of risk so that’s why it’s important that is supporters are kept in the loop. | |
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| Trust March newsletter. on 17:23 - Mar 2 with 2768 views | Dalenet |
| Trust March newsletter. on 17:15 - Mar 2 by fitzochris |
The club might have an axe to grind against them, though? Everyone who sold their shares to Morton House put the club at risk. They put themselves before the club in other words.
Yes, their link to the club is tenuous at best.
As I’ve written many times, finding an investor who actually cares about the club and who won’t do it harm if the shit hits the fan, is going to be very difficult.
A lottery-winning supporter is the only hope there, and that isn’t going to happen any time soon.
I think any investor, therefore, is going to come with some degree of risk so that’s why it’s important that is supporters are kept in the loop. |
That would be nice. But Bury had one of those and they pissd it up the wall within year. We need a Euromillions winner to be precise. | | | |
| Trust March newsletter. on 18:24 - Mar 2 with 2660 views | A_Newby |
| Trust March newsletter. on 17:15 - Mar 2 by fitzochris |
The club might have an axe to grind against them, though? Everyone who sold their shares to Morton House put the club at risk. They put themselves before the club in other words.
Yes, their link to the club is tenuous at best.
As I’ve written many times, finding an investor who actually cares about the club and who won’t do it harm if the shit hits the fan, is going to be very difficult.
A lottery-winning supporter is the only hope there, and that isn’t going to happen any time soon.
I think any investor, therefore, is going to come with some degree of risk so that’s why it’s important that is supporters are kept in the loop. |
Euromillions £114 million this Friday.! | | | |
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