| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) 15:23 - Apr 15 with 1289 views | fitzochris |
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| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 15:34 - Apr 15 with 1253 views | fitzochris |
In case anyone is wondering what my jabbering rant is about:
all 12 Scottish Premier League clubs were present to consider proposals for restructuring of the Scottish professional game. The proposals would have delivered:
* an expansion of play-offs, creating more opportunities for promotion and relegation between divisions
* a single merged league with meaningful games at every level
* a pyramid structure for the entire game
* opportunities for materially increased revenues coming into the game
* substantial redistribution of revenues to lower league clubs
The proposals required 11 votes in favour to be approved. Ten votes in favour were received, with two against. The proposals were not therefore approved.
The guilty clubs are St Mirren and Ross County.
Why they voted 'no' is anyone's guess. Long term, they won't benefit from their decision.
Scottish football needed this reform, now it will be back to the same ol' pish for years on end before another vote on reform falls at the final hurdle. | |
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| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 15:59 - Apr 15 with 1190 views | fermin |
I thought Scottish fans were opposed to this particular reorganisation, preferring larger top divisions. This proposed arrangement was rather bizarre. |  | | |
| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 16:04 - Apr 15 with 1168 views | fitzochris |
| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 15:59 - Apr 15 by fermin |
I thought Scottish fans were opposed to this particular reorganisation, preferring larger top divisions. This proposed arrangement was rather bizarre. |
Some fans were opposed to the complexity of the proposals. However, the majority were in agreement that this was preferable to the current set-up.
The proposed reformation was quite complex, but it offered clubs a 22-game target for a kind of promotion. Those that achieved this promotion then spent the second half of the season fighting for European places.
It was preferable to the ludicrous split we have now, where only 12 teams are involved from the off.
SPL proposal was for a 12-12-18 structure:
Top two leagues to split into three leagues of eight after 22 matches then play a further seven home and seven away games
Leagues would be called Premier Division, Championship and National League
Top eight teams to play for title and European places; middle eight to contest promotion and relegation in and out of Premier Division; bottom eight to decide who drops into National League
11 out of 12 SPL clubs needed to vote in favour of plans, while the proposal required approval of 23 out of 30 SFL clubs
One league body to replace SPL and SFL
Pyramid system at the bottom to allow automatic access to the bottom tier for new clubs. | |
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| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 16:50 - Apr 15 with 1098 views | D_Alien |
| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 15:34 - Apr 15 by fitzochris |
In case anyone is wondering what my jabbering rant is about:
all 12 Scottish Premier League clubs were present to consider proposals for restructuring of the Scottish professional game. The proposals would have delivered:
* an expansion of play-offs, creating more opportunities for promotion and relegation between divisions
* a single merged league with meaningful games at every level
* a pyramid structure for the entire game
* opportunities for materially increased revenues coming into the game
* substantial redistribution of revenues to lower league clubs
The proposals required 11 votes in favour to be approved. Ten votes in favour were received, with two against. The proposals were not therefore approved.
The guilty clubs are St Mirren and Ross County.
Why they voted 'no' is anyone's guess. Long term, they won't benefit from their decision.
Scottish football needed this reform, now it will be back to the same ol' pish for years on end before another vote on reform falls at the final hurdle. |
"Why they voted 'no' is anyone's guess. Long term, they won't benefit from their decision."
Is it possible they didn't fully understand the proposals?
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| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 17:04 - Apr 15 with 1059 views | fitzochris |
| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 16:50 - Apr 15 by D_Alien |
"Why they voted 'no' is anyone's guess. Long term, they won't benefit from their decision."
Is it possible they didn't fully understand the proposals?
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I know your comment is in jest, but no, it isn't possible. Club lawyers have been climbing all over this for months now.
Each and every chairman was fully briefed as to what would be involved.
Those in charge at St Mirren and Ross County simply fear their place at the top table might be under threat if they don't perform next season, despite teams with worse records than both of those clubs taking that risk and voting 'yes'.
The fact remains that, should either St Mirren or Ross County finish bottom of the SPL next season, they will find it harder to get back there under the current structure than they would under the reformation.
Short sightedness has ruled the day, sadly.
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| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 17:18 - Apr 15 with 1026 views | ColDale |
Typical English football fan response, but aren't the proposals just an attempt to polish a turd? There's clearly a lot of positive stuff in the proposals (and the Rangers influence amongst the two dissenters would be interesting), but if you imagined they'd done this with the League of Wales, it would still be ultimately the League of Wales, and wouldn't change the fact that there is a real lack of quality. I'd wager that with the exception of Glasgow, any Scottish town or City would be more likely to see a Premiership team shirt than a team from that town or City, and that is the problem Scottish football is facing - there is only so much you can do with it.
I don't believe Scottish football can survive without some sort of merger with England, but politically that would destroy Salmond's plans and there isn't the desire amongst the English clubs to accept them or enough cash on the table from Murdoch to take them.
They've tried all sorts of restructuring and gimmicks in Rugby League, with different sized divisions, play offs left right and centre, renaming of the divisions etc but the game is unfortunately still dying. |  | | |
| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 17:18 - Apr 15 with 1023 views | sweetcorn |
Thankfully its only jock football which doesn't really count for anything. stick to throwing logs. |  |
| Leader of the little gang of immature cretins. |
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| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 17:28 - Apr 15 with 999 views | fitzochris |
| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 17:18 - Apr 15 by ColDale |
Typical English football fan response, but aren't the proposals just an attempt to polish a turd? There's clearly a lot of positive stuff in the proposals (and the Rangers influence amongst the two dissenters would be interesting), but if you imagined they'd done this with the League of Wales, it would still be ultimately the League of Wales, and wouldn't change the fact that there is a real lack of quality. I'd wager that with the exception of Glasgow, any Scottish town or City would be more likely to see a Premiership team shirt than a team from that town or City, and that is the problem Scottish football is facing - there is only so much you can do with it.
I don't believe Scottish football can survive without some sort of merger with England, but politically that would destroy Salmond's plans and there isn't the desire amongst the English clubs to accept them or enough cash on the table from Murdoch to take them.
They've tried all sorts of restructuring and gimmicks in Rugby League, with different sized divisions, play offs left right and centre, renaming of the divisions etc but the game is unfortunately still dying. |
Rangers, for what it's worth, were opposed to this reformation, but then they would, wouldn't they, being where they are at present.
If they were still in the SPL, like Celtic, they would have voted 'yes', I'm sure.
Scottish football is dying, true, but it is not comparable to the League of Wales which I believe, without checking, has no full-time professional clubs in its set-up.
I applaud the powers that be for trying to do something to inject a bit of passion and competition back into the game up here. Too often they've been accused of pandering to the Old Firm and maintaining the status quo, but not here.
As for the people on the street wearing English Premiership shirts, that's not the case. Sadly, people from most cities, towns, villages and hamlets in Scotland wear an Old Firm shirt... but that is a separate struggle for Scottish football. | |
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| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 17:30 - Apr 15 with 994 views | D_Alien |
| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 17:04 - Apr 15 by fitzochris |
I know your comment is in jest, but no, it isn't possible. Club lawyers have been climbing all over this for months now.
Each and every chairman was fully briefed as to what would be involved.
Those in charge at St Mirren and Ross County simply fear their place at the top table might be under threat if they don't perform next season, despite teams with worse records than both of those clubs taking that risk and voting 'yes'.
The fact remains that, should either St Mirren or Ross County finish bottom of the SPL next season, they will find it harder to get back there under the current structure than they would under the reformation.
Short sightedness has ruled the day, sadly.
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Well it was only half in jest!
But whose idea was it that the vote required 11 in favour for the proposal to be carried?
In English law (not sure about Scottish) if a jury can't reach a unanimous verdict, a judge may accept a majority verdict of 10-2. If that's good enough when dealing with someone's future, surely common sense might have dictated that a 10-2 vote would be enough to move forward with? | |
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| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 17:32 - Apr 15 with 984 views | fitzochris |
| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 17:30 - Apr 15 by D_Alien |
Well it was only half in jest!
But whose idea was it that the vote required 11 in favour for the proposal to be carried?
In English law (not sure about Scottish) if a jury can't reach a unanimous verdict, a judge may accept a majority verdict of 10-2. If that's good enough when dealing with someone's future, surely common sense might have dictated that a 10-2 vote would be enough to move forward with? |
Bizarrely, part of this reformation was a vote on changing the majority to 9-3 for all future votes.
However, this needed a majority vote of 11-1 to be successful.
You couldn't make it up. | |
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| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 17:52 - Apr 15 with 932 views | 442Dale |
It's too complicated. They were right to vote no.
Scottish football was uninteresting enough, but that split they had in the Premier during the season threw up too many questions for it to have ever been considered.
If there is any uncertainty, fans will lose interest. |  |
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| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 18:06 - Apr 15 with 911 views | fermin |
| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 17:30 - Apr 15 by D_Alien |
Well it was only half in jest!
But whose idea was it that the vote required 11 in favour for the proposal to be carried?
In English law (not sure about Scottish) if a jury can't reach a unanimous verdict, a judge may accept a majority verdict of 10-2. If that's good enough when dealing with someone's future, surely common sense might have dictated that a 10-2 vote would be enough to move forward with? |
If I remember correctly, the 11-1 voting structure came into being several years ago to ensure that Rangers and Celtic could block anything they did not like out of self-interest. No doubt there was some threats involved to get the other clubs to move to 11-1. The hope was that Rangers' implosion and reformation would allow a 9-3 voting structure to be brought in before Rangers reappear in the top flight to set up the cartel again. It is a pity that this has gone with the rejection of the proposal. Hopefully they can resurrect this particular aspect at a later date, so that Scottish football can have a chance of being governed without pandering to the old firm all the time.
I disagree with Col about Scottish football. It should be able to stand on its own two feet without coming in with England, even if it involves more Scottish clubs becoming semi-professional ie cutting costs to suit income. However, in my opinion a problem is Celtic and Rangers (when they reappear at the top) believing that they have a bigger status in Europe than they actually do and trying to force other clubs to do things to make them more competitive in Europe 'for the good of Scottish football' (even though both would join an English league at the drop of a hat). | | | |
| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 20:09 - Apr 15 with 802 views | Shun |
Paisley is a horrible town. |  | | |
| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 20:11 - Apr 15 with 793 views | fitzochris |
| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 20:09 - Apr 15 by Shun |
Paisley is a horrible town. |
Yep. My office is there, so I have to take it in every day! | |
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| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 20:15 - Apr 15 with 777 views | Shun |
| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 20:11 - Apr 15 by fitzochris |
Yep. My office is there, so I have to take it in every day! |
I used to live there. The word 'depression' must've been born from that place, I swear. | | | |
| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 20:15 - Apr 15 with 776 views | fitzochris |
| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 17:52 - Apr 15 by 442Dale |
It's too complicated. They were right to vote no.
Scottish football was uninteresting enough, but that split they had in the Premier during the season threw up too many questions for it to have ever been considered.
If there is any uncertainty, fans will lose interest. |
Completely disagree. Their reasons for voting no had nothing to do with the complexity of the proposed new structure.
It boils down to the fact neither can afford to be relegated, a fact that applies to other clubs that voted yes.
Stewart Milne has been criticised for openly blasting St Mirren, but he has the right of it. Other chairman share his views too, albeit quietly.
Two clubs putting their own needs before the greater good of the game, sadly. A fact that will do them more harm than good ultimately. | |
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| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 20:18 - Apr 15 with 771 views | fitzochris |
| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 18:06 - Apr 15 by fermin |
If I remember correctly, the 11-1 voting structure came into being several years ago to ensure that Rangers and Celtic could block anything they did not like out of self-interest. No doubt there was some threats involved to get the other clubs to move to 11-1. The hope was that Rangers' implosion and reformation would allow a 9-3 voting structure to be brought in before Rangers reappear in the top flight to set up the cartel again. It is a pity that this has gone with the rejection of the proposal. Hopefully they can resurrect this particular aspect at a later date, so that Scottish football can have a chance of being governed without pandering to the old firm all the time.
I disagree with Col about Scottish football. It should be able to stand on its own two feet without coming in with England, even if it involves more Scottish clubs becoming semi-professional ie cutting costs to suit income. However, in my opinion a problem is Celtic and Rangers (when they reappear at the top) believing that they have a bigger status in Europe than they actually do and trying to force other clubs to do things to make them more competitive in Europe 'for the good of Scottish football' (even though both would join an English league at the drop of a hat). |
You remember rightly and I agree, Scottish football's time to strike was now, while one half of the monopoly was weakened.
In a few years, Rangers will be back in the SPL and, along with Celtic, they'll be happy with their lot once again, while everyone else fights for scraps and barely survives... Or worse. | |
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| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 20:49 - Apr 15 with 750 views | 442Dale |
Don't know anything about their reasons to vote no, just that by doing so it became the right thing to do so because it's too complicated.
Those complexities make it a non-starter, mainly because it makes some fans switch off rather than try and work them out.
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| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 11:15 - Apr 16 with 596 views | lurker |
Agree with that article. Paddy and Murphy would be proud of those proposals. Should rename it the Irish league in Scotland if it ever goes through! |  | | |
| I hope Ross County and St Mirren are relegated from the SPL over the coming years (n/t) (n/t) on 11:54 - Apr 16 with 570 views | fitzochris |
While that article attempts to deal with the conspiracy theories surrounding St Mirren's alleged relationship with Charles Green (old news and boring), it only becomes interesting towards the end.
The complexity of the proposals was never denied. It was a start. A first step to change. A bigger top tier without the split is the obvious choice for me, but that won't happen without some other kind of change first.
The final two pars of that article are the story for me:
"In the meantime, the SPL clubs - having repeatedly stressed that the national game will be heading for hell in a handcart should reconstruction not take place - must now find a replacement for title sponsor the Clydesdale Bank which, with some relief, ends its association with the elite division next month.
God luck with that." | |
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