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I think the world's gone mad. When did it become acceptable for people to get so offended on everyone else's behalf, pitchforks at the ready? Have we nothing better to do in our lives?
Would it be alright for one prop to call another a w*anker in the heat of battle? There's not a race of w*ankers exactly but it's still sectarian, pigeon-holing all these w*ankers and drawing attention to them for what they are - terrible stuff isn't it? What if one prop said to another "white boy" as they locked horns, or "black boy" or "welsh boy" - would this be a problem to the PC brigade?
Samson Lee is proud to be a gypsy and refers to himself as a gypsy. Marler calls him a gypsy (didn't even say gyppo which I would have been more likely to expect) with the intention of having a go, a bit of verbals, designed to cause some kind of disturbance, in the same way w*anker would. Petty and robotic perhaps, not exactly original, somewhat pathetic. Still, I think the airing in the media and social media has caused far more embarrassment as this is where the subtle racism is actually occurring. Every PC outpouring is an admittance of a difference that challenges peoples' identity and values. It's an admittance that people truly feel that gypsies are different, that they live their lives in a way that covertly the PC middle classes don't find acceptable. So magnifying a prop saying gypsy to another prop simply reflects on middle class ignorance and the finespun bigotry that protects everyone's wee castle and garden fence - I'll defend them on bbc sport but wo-betide they set up camp in my village etc etc....
I'm mixed race, been subject to racism (plenty) as a kid and I abhor it. But even I can recognise the difference between some rugby verbals in the scrum that nobody on the pitch is bothered by, and ignorance fuelled bile and hatred being directed between one human being and another. And this is the crux of the matter. We're all humans, born by chance into one territory or community or another. Pure chance. Nobody is any different at the end of the day. To think otherwise is ignorant (see the migrant crisis). I couldn't give a monkey's about petty national borders, organised religions, whatever. All are devices designed to get in the way of true meaning.
Sorry for going off on one, don't know how I got started! As for Eddie Jones - he's just a coach doing a coach's thing. He's not been hired to be a UN politician. He's been hired to make England win stuff and it seems he's doing a good job. We don't have to like or dislike him as a person. Not knowing him personally, yet knowing he's not qualified to for his diplomacy qualities, why would any of us judge him?
Bang on ....pc-ism is killing the country....can't say nuffin these days
Using someone's racial, cultural or sexual identity as part of a perjorative is generally a problem, I'd say. How much of a problem would depend on the level of discrimination suffered by that group either now or in the past.
So, Jew boy, gay boy and black boy for example are rarely welcome. The latter especially so given that 'boy' was the favoured expression for adult male black slaves and servants during the slave era.
There are plenty of other less controversial insults available if you want to rile someone on the field of play.
When I drove past Warren Farm last week there was a load of them camped by the old changing rooms. They'll be called a lot worse on here if they're not off by the time we finally do get permission to build.....
When I drove past Warren Farm last week there was a load of them camped by the old changing rooms. They'll be called a lot worse on here if they're not off by the time we finally do get permission to build.....
Largely agree with Kensal, JT clungechops being the prime example, it shouldn't stray into racial sterotypes. Largely take the news with a large inch of salt these days, because it is so politically driven they've finally tied themselves up in knots, regretting suggesting the north Africans assaulting women in Germany on NYE were north Africans/refugees/asylum seekers etc. This week was a classic. There was arrests of a nonce gang in Sheffield, five apparently, not one named. I'm not a betting man but I would put good money on them being Muslim. So fcking name them.
I suggest it wouldn't be such a big story if the team with the gypsy in it had actually won the game. Also,is it more of a story to call someone a name or potentially blind them?
I suggest it wouldn't be such a big story if the team with the gypsy in it had actually won the game. Also,is it more of a story to call someone a name or potentially blind them?
Erm it's Jones who's made this a story not Wales. He's whinning because he thinks it'll influence the ref's decisions in france tomorrow. Actually he's just playing the mind games with the ref himself by saying what he said
I think it is, but I get the opposite point that Travellers are not a race. Either way it was derogatory and sectarian in my opinion.
Quite right Brian.
Racism isn't wrong because its about race, but because its about prejudice. Arguing about whether Gypsies or Irish or Sikhs or whoever are a race is a load of toss and I'm afraid it implies that you've just completely missed the point.
Erm it's Jones who's made this a story not Wales. He's whinning because he thinks it'll influence the ref's decisions in france tomorrow. Actually he's just playing the mind games with the ref himself by saying what he said
It wasn't ex wales player Davies telling the world that "He's a very lucky boy not to be cited."
Racism isn't wrong because its about race, but because its about prejudice. Arguing about whether Gypsies or Irish or Sikhs or whoever are a race is a load of toss and I'm afraid it implies that you've just completely missed the point.
Racism is about treating someone unfairly because they belong to a different race. This doesn't apply here.
Erm it's Jones who's made this a story not Wales. He's whinning because he thinks it'll influence the ref's decisions in france tomorrow. Actually he's just playing the mind games with the ref himself by saying what he said
Actually I think Eddie is making a valid point about inconsistency. The Welsh camp played down the remark as banter only for the WRU to then express its surprise that Marler escaped punishment.
Racism is systematic practically all over the world. Jobs, wealth, opportunity and respect are still denied to people who weren't born white, male, straight and non-traveller.
It is not politically incorrect to be racist, it's just plain incorrect.It was always incorrect, long before the phrase PC was ever dreamt up and used as either a stick to beat with or a refuge to cower in.
I'm not offended by this incident. In fact I could hardly care less. However, as my heritage and the world's shifting attitude to my heritage means that I have experienced very little discrimination in the last twenty years compared to the twenty beforehand, the very least I'm going to do is call racism for what it is whenever I think I see it.
When racism towards Irish declined so too did depression, alcoholism and suicide amongst Irish communities abroad. When racism towards the Travelling community hopefully declines we should hope the same will occur. Racism is real with real consequences in my opinion, it's not about being PC, it's not about hardening up. The hardest of men are driven to their demons by a lack of self-worth.
No hand-wringing here, no crying. Just my opinion.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Racism is systematic practically all over the world. Jobs, wealth, opportunity and respect are still denied to people who weren't born white, male, straight and non-traveller.
It is not politically incorrect to be racist, it's just plain incorrect.It was always incorrect, long before the phrase PC was ever dreamt up and used as either a stick to beat with or a refuge to cower in.
I'm not offended by this incident. In fact I could hardly care less. However, as my heritage and the world's shifting attitude to my heritage means that I have experienced very little discrimination in the last twenty years compared to the twenty beforehand, the very least I'm going to do is call racism for what it is whenever I think I see it.
When racism towards Irish declined so too did depression, alcoholism and suicide amongst Irish communities abroad. When racism towards the Travelling community hopefully declines we should hope the same will occur. Racism is real with real consequences in my opinion, it's not about being PC, it's not about hardening up. The hardest of men are driven to their demons by a lack of self-worth.
No hand-wringing here, no crying. Just my opinion.
Bri I would totally agree with you here. But do you think the attention focused on this particular incident has been worth it? I think there's an irony in that if it had attracted no attention at all it would have reflected much better on current society. The fact everyone has gone to town on it says to me that instead of media and their consumers essentially viewing everyone the same, they instead clearly view certain groups very differently and the resulting process doesn't appear to educate people any better. My teen years were seriously affected by racism and a lack of self-worth. But asking people to not call me a name wasn't any kind of way to emerge from it.
I think the world's gone mad. When did it become acceptable for people to get so offended on everyone else's behalf, pitchforks at the ready? Have we nothing better to do in our lives?
Would it be alright for one prop to call another a w*anker in the heat of battle? There's not a race of w*ankers exactly but it's still sectarian, pigeon-holing all these w*ankers and drawing attention to them for what they are - terrible stuff isn't it? What if one prop said to another "white boy" as they locked horns, or "black boy" or "welsh boy" - would this be a problem to the PC brigade?
Samson Lee is proud to be a gypsy and refers to himself as a gypsy. Marler calls him a gypsy (didn't even say gyppo which I would have been more likely to expect) with the intention of having a go, a bit of verbals, designed to cause some kind of disturbance, in the same way w*anker would. Petty and robotic perhaps, not exactly original, somewhat pathetic. Still, I think the airing in the media and social media has caused far more embarrassment as this is where the subtle racism is actually occurring. Every PC outpouring is an admittance of a difference that challenges peoples' identity and values. It's an admittance that people truly feel that gypsies are different, that they live their lives in a way that covertly the PC middle classes don't find acceptable. So magnifying a prop saying gypsy to another prop simply reflects on middle class ignorance and the finespun bigotry that protects everyone's wee castle and garden fence - I'll defend them on bbc sport but wo-betide they set up camp in my village etc etc....
I'm mixed race, been subject to racism (plenty) as a kid and I abhor it. But even I can recognise the difference between some rugby verbals in the scrum that nobody on the pitch is bothered by, and ignorance fuelled bile and hatred being directed between one human being and another. And this is the crux of the matter. We're all humans, born by chance into one territory or community or another. Pure chance. Nobody is any different at the end of the day. To think otherwise is ignorant (see the migrant crisis). I couldn't give a monkey's about petty national borders, organised religions, whatever. All are devices designed to get in the way of true meaning.
Sorry for going off on one, don't know how I got started! As for Eddie Jones - he's just a coach doing a coach's thing. He's not been hired to be a UN politician. He's been hired to make England win stuff and it seems he's doing a good job. We don't have to like or dislike him as a person. Not knowing him personally, yet knowing he's not qualified to for his diplomacy qualities, why would any of us judge him?
"When did it become acceptable for people to get so offended on everyone else's behalf"... Excellent point Jamois..!
Bri I would totally agree with you here. But do you think the attention focused on this particular incident has been worth it? I think there's an irony in that if it had attracted no attention at all it would have reflected much better on current society. The fact everyone has gone to town on it says to me that instead of media and their consumers essentially viewing everyone the same, they instead clearly view certain groups very differently and the resulting process doesn't appear to educate people any better. My teen years were seriously affected by racism and a lack of self-worth. But asking people to not call me a name wasn't any kind of way to emerge from it.
I think it's been completely worth it, Jamois. It's a drip, drip, drip on people's consciousness. Eventually people get the message but it has to be raised as an issue first, and raised continually.
My Dad's generation of Irish in London were both victims of racism and racists themselves. A week after landing in London you'd hear some of them proclaiming that "arra, the pakis are alright but the wogs have an awful chip on their shoulder" and in the next sentence saying that "the Tans (English) are racist bastids". No irony at all. Slowly but surely, though, that racism has faded. Maybe they just mellowed with age, maybe the resentment faded as they too stopped bring victims of racism at the hands of the English. But, also, I would argue, it happened because every time they were racist someone tugged at their sleeve and said "hey, you can't say that".
This stuff no longer offends me, as I say, but it has to be challenged. Challenged quietly, gently, politely, but continually. We have to keep tugging at the sleeve.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Racism is systematic practically all over the world. Jobs, wealth, opportunity and respect are still denied to people who weren't born white, male, straight and non-traveller.
It is not politically incorrect to be racist, it's just plain incorrect.It was always incorrect, long before the phrase PC was ever dreamt up and used as either a stick to beat with or a refuge to cower in.
I'm not offended by this incident. In fact I could hardly care less. However, as my heritage and the world's shifting attitude to my heritage means that I have experienced very little discrimination in the last twenty years compared to the twenty beforehand, the very least I'm going to do is call racism for what it is whenever I think I see it.
When racism towards Irish declined so too did depression, alcoholism and suicide amongst Irish communities abroad. When racism towards the Travelling community hopefully declines we should hope the same will occur. Racism is real with real consequences in my opinion, it's not about being PC, it's not about hardening up. The hardest of men are driven to their demons by a lack of self-worth.
No hand-wringing here, no crying. Just my opinion.
Actually I think Eddie is making a valid point about inconsistency. The Welsh camp played down the remark as banter only for the WRU to then express its surprise that Marler escaped punishment.
Gatland played it down as made but was made by the WRU to apologise for doing so.
Jones has remarked that the Welsh called a conference specifically about the issue coinciding with the English one and are making a big issue of this to harm England's chances of the grand slam.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Racism is systematic practically all over the world. Jobs, wealth, opportunity and respect are still denied to people who weren't born white, male, straight and non-traveller.
It is not politically incorrect to be racist, it's just plain incorrect.It was always incorrect, long before the phrase PC was ever dreamt up and used as either a stick to beat with or a refuge to cower in.
I'm not offended by this incident. In fact I could hardly care less. However, as my heritage and the world's shifting attitude to my heritage means that I have experienced very little discrimination in the last twenty years compared to the twenty beforehand, the very least I'm going to do is call racism for what it is whenever I think I see it.
When racism towards Irish declined so too did depression, alcoholism and suicide amongst Irish communities abroad. When racism towards the Travelling community hopefully declines we should hope the same will occur. Racism is real with real consequences in my opinion, it's not about being PC, it's not about hardening up. The hardest of men are driven to their demons by a lack of self-worth.
No hand-wringing here, no crying. Just my opinion.
How is the friction between travellers and settled framed in Ireland, Brian? Is it regarded as racism there?
Curious also that many of the people decrying Jones' supposed complicity with racism make cruel remarks about his appearance. His mother is Japanese.
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