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Brexit or not. How will you vote? on 21:41 - Jun 25 by R17ALE
You've got me thinking 1mark1. You'll probably be able to smell burning!
You are proud working class you state, but you believe - rightly - that you wish to be able to climb the class system which you say we still have.
You then suggest a higher wage and a decent lifestyle are the markers of moving away from being working class.
I've no truck with any of that, but my question is, how is class measured? Where is the line over which you can cross from being working class to I presume middle class? Is class a league table?
And if you were to achieve your ambitions and live a decent lifestyle - and I hope you do - against who will you then measure your achievements? In football terms big clubs are only big because clubs like ours survive. Without the Dales of this world there would be no big clubs. Likewise, without the Premier League clubs we would not know that we are a small club.
I hope my logic doesn't appear skewed, and I'm not having a go at all. Just curious to see how you choose to measure class and the poor.
Working class people eat Tongue or potted meat or Shippams Salmon paste butties.
Middle Class people eat egg and cress or Salmon and Cucumber butties, always on brown bread cut into triangles never down the middle.
High Class people eat wraps with various fillings such as smoked salmon (wild not farmed) and cream cheese. They don't eat butties (or Scotch Eggs).
[Post edited 25 Jun 2016 22:02]
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Brexit or not. How will you vote? on 22:00 - Jun 25 with 2822 views
Brexit or not. How will you vote? on 21:41 - Jun 25 by R17ALE
You've got me thinking 1mark1. You'll probably be able to smell burning!
You are proud working class you state, but you believe - rightly - that you wish to be able to climb the class system which you say we still have.
You then suggest a higher wage and a decent lifestyle are the markers of moving away from being working class.
I've no truck with any of that, but my question is, how is class measured? Where is the line over which you can cross from being working class to I presume middle class? Is class a league table?
And if you were to achieve your ambitions and live a decent lifestyle - and I hope you do - against who will you then measure your achievements? In football terms big clubs are only big because clubs like ours survive. Without the Dales of this world there would be no big clubs. Likewise, without the Premier League clubs we would not know that we are a small club.
I hope my logic doesn't appear skewed, and I'm not having a go at all. Just curious to see how you choose to measure class and the poor.
I think you have misunderstood me. I didn't mean me personally wanting to move up the ladder, but when we have a society that means there is no poverty, and lower death rates etc just because of where you are born, then we can forget about campaigning against the class system in the same way.
I judge the class system in Marxist terms. Working class, anyone who works for a living-sells their labour. Middle class, anyone who who works for themselves, or is a smallish employer, upper class big business owners etc. Yes it's changed a fair bit, since 1844, however the principals are still there. Within the classes, I accept there are divisions. Eg you have Head teachers who are on 80 odd grand a year, they still though rely on selling their labour, and yes many who sell their labour have a disposable income higher than some business owners. At the other end of the scale you have people on the minimum wage, or those just above who still want to rise up to earn better money.
If one day I win the lottery, and retire from being an employee, I might be able to invest in The Dale, and no longer will I be working class, however I will be from and proud to be from the working class. I suppose at that time if allowed on the Dale board, I would become middle class in so far as I partly own a small business. That's my dream in life, to become at least part owner of the Dale.
Not many still see the class system in Marxist terms, it's not about incomes, it's about the means of production, the ownership of production etc. To me school teachers are working class, and do one of the most important jobs around, even though they don't produce goods as such, they are a big part of developing our young people.
I think the office of national statistics bases class on occupational groupings, unskilled manual, semi skilled manual, skilled manual and clerical, managerial etc.
Someone more capable than me will be able to find the Cleese/barker/corbett sketch on expalining class from the 1960s. It will be on youtube somewhere.
Ssince I travel at lot with my job I always noticed differences on news reporting. In the US a car pile causing 5 deaths would be reported as 1 african american, a latino and three caucasians. In the UK it would be a coal miner from selby an accountant from Leeds two unemployed males and a single mother from Salford.
We like putting people in boxes, its just the names of the boxes that differ/change
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Brexit or not. How will you vote? on 22:12 - Jun 25 with 2796 views
Brexit or not. How will you vote? on 22:06 - Jun 25 by pioneer
I think the office of national statistics bases class on occupational groupings, unskilled manual, semi skilled manual, skilled manual and clerical, managerial etc.
Someone more capable than me will be able to find the Cleese/barker/corbett sketch on expalining class from the 1960s. It will be on youtube somewhere.
Ssince I travel at lot with my job I always noticed differences on news reporting. In the US a car pile causing 5 deaths would be reported as 1 african american, a latino and three caucasians. In the UK it would be a coal miner from selby an accountant from Leeds two unemployed males and a single mother from Salford.
We like putting people in boxes, its just the names of the boxes that differ/change
Brexit or not. How will you vote? on 21:41 - Jun 25 by R17ALE
You've got me thinking 1mark1. You'll probably be able to smell burning!
You are proud working class you state, but you believe - rightly - that you wish to be able to climb the class system which you say we still have.
You then suggest a higher wage and a decent lifestyle are the markers of moving away from being working class.
I've no truck with any of that, but my question is, how is class measured? Where is the line over which you can cross from being working class to I presume middle class? Is class a league table?
And if you were to achieve your ambitions and live a decent lifestyle - and I hope you do - against who will you then measure your achievements? In football terms big clubs are only big because clubs like ours survive. Without the Dales of this world there would be no big clubs. Likewise, without the Premier League clubs we would not know that we are a small club.
I hope my logic doesn't appear skewed, and I'm not having a go at all. Just curious to see how you choose to measure class and the poor.
I've just gone up 65,104,545 places (62,682,545 after Scotland jumps ship).
No need for a reference, a referendum was all I needed hahaha.
Wounder why the youngsters like the EU so much..... Leave university with 50,000 debt ( unless your EU funded like Scotland Wales and Ireland) Easy access to the housing market ( sorry not EU fault government fault #lookupthefacts) The EU killed the UK FACT AT LEAST WE DON'T HAVE TO WAIT 7 YEARS FOR A TRADE DEAL TO BE COMPLETED NOW
Brexit or not. How will you vote? on 19:29 - Jun 26 by Dale23years
Wounder why the youngsters like the EU so much..... Leave university with 50,000 debt ( unless your EU funded like Scotland Wales and Ireland) Easy access to the housing market ( sorry not EU fault government fault #lookupthefacts) The EU killed the UK FACT AT LEAST WE DON'T HAVE TO WAIT 7 YEARS FOR A TRADE DEAL TO BE COMPLETED NOW
Nothing to do with EU why Uni students have such big debt. It is Scotland's government that funds the free University education, same with any other country that has it. Lack of housing is a domestic government area, as far as funding it, NOT EU. In what way did EU kill UK? We will see Ho long trade deals take, and if they are as good for our business, and workers. Time will tell.
If we end up doing better, then I will be very happy. Trouble is we might never know as we don't know for certain how things would have been if we had stayed. UK did very well whilst in, maybe we will do better off out, let's hope so.
Brexit or not. How will you vote? on 19:29 - Jun 26 by Dale23years
Wounder why the youngsters like the EU so much..... Leave university with 50,000 debt ( unless your EU funded like Scotland Wales and Ireland) Easy access to the housing market ( sorry not EU fault government fault #lookupthefacts) The EU killed the UK FACT AT LEAST WE DON'T HAVE TO WAIT 7 YEARS FOR A TRADE DEAL TO BE COMPLETED NOW
I wasn't wondering before but I am now. That post makes no sense. Have you been on the ale? CAPS LOCK DOESN'T MAKE A NON-SENSICAL RAMBLING BECOME TRUTH.
Brexit or not. How will you vote? on 19:45 - Jun 26 by 1mark1
Nothing to do with EU why Uni students have such big debt. It is Scotland's government that funds the free University education, same with any other country that has it. Lack of housing is a domestic government area, as far as funding it, NOT EU. In what way did EU kill UK? We will see Ho long trade deals take, and if they are as good for our business, and workers. Time will tell.
If we end up doing better, then I will be very happy. Trouble is we might never know as we don't know for certain how things would have been if we had stayed. UK did very well whilst in, maybe we will do better off out, let's hope so.
Your gonna tell me it's Scotland government funds their free prescription as well .#lookupfacts
Brexit or not. How will you vote? on 21:43 - Jun 26 by pioneer
But how much does the scottish government get from Westminster to help fund their province, and that is what it is, a province.
Don't know, but it has nothing to do with the EU. Their financial settlement is not dependent on whether UK is in EU or not. The Scottish government choose how to spend the money they raise and receive . England could have free prescriptions if our government decided to do so.
But the money transferred to Scotland to support their spending has always exceeded the money spent in England and Wales on a per capita basis, so they have more spending capacity to suport these programmes. Nothing to do with europe, in effect folks in the rest of UK subsidise scotlands decisions to make university attendence and prescriptions free.
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Brexit or not. How will you vote? on 22:02 - Jun 26 with 2385 views
Brexit or not. How will you vote? on 21:56 - Jun 26 by pioneer
But the money transferred to Scotland to support their spending has always exceeded the money spent in England and Wales on a per capita basis, so they have more spending capacity to suport these programmes. Nothing to do with europe, in effect folks in the rest of UK subsidise scotlands decisions to make university attendence and prescriptions free.
Indeed. So on that basis, us in England shouldn't be too upset if Scotland ever go it alone . Unless of course what the exchequer receives in revenue from Scotland, is more than what they receive in the settlement.
Brexit or not. How will you vote? on 22:02 - Jun 26 by 1mark1
Indeed. So on that basis, us in England shouldn't be too upset if Scotland ever go it alone . Unless of course what the exchequer receives in revenue from Scotland, is more than what they receive in the settlement.
And there lies the rub 1mark1.
Our top 3 exports from the uk are (in order)
1. Whisky 2. Salmon 3. Tartan.
And I imagine Europe is the biggest purchaser of these 3 hence SNP wanting Scotland to have free trade with the EU.
not sure where you get that info from, a quick search of web indicates top three exports are machinary, precious metals and vehicles. Of course i cannot vouch for the accuracy of this information.
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Brexit or not. How will you vote? on 00:34 - Jun 27 with 2281 views
Brexit or not. How will you vote? on 00:29 - Jun 27 by pioneer
not sure where you get that info from, a quick search of web indicates top three exports are machinary, precious metals and vehicles. Of course i cannot vouch for the accuracy of this information.
Don't forget financial services
Yep, it's intangible, but just as real as any other product or service
I'd imagine the Scots would fancy themselves to be able to tap into the financial services market whilst dressed in tartan and entertaining clients with whisky and salmon
Brexit or not. How will you vote? on 00:34 - Jun 27 by D_Alien
Don't forget financial services
Yep, it's intangible, but just as real as any other product or service
I'd imagine the Scots would fancy themselves to be able to tap into the financial services market whilst dressed in tartan and entertaining clients with whisky and salmon
Wonder what the impact of this will have on financial services? Heard from my g-f's daughter that a good friend of hers was due to move to London for an investment banking post, but that has been canned as 2,000 jobs will now move to Germany. One of their competitors (similar size) will do the same. There will be some gains and some losses across the board, but it will be a long time until all this unravels and the dust settles before we find out the true net impact of Brexit. I just hope we have a safe pair of hands managing it, but the uncertainty there is also a concern.
Brexit or not. How will you vote? on 08:24 - Jun 27 by DaleiLama
Wonder what the impact of this will have on financial services? Heard from my g-f's daughter that a good friend of hers was due to move to London for an investment banking post, but that has been canned as 2,000 jobs will now move to Germany. One of their competitors (similar size) will do the same. There will be some gains and some losses across the board, but it will be a long time until all this unravels and the dust settles before we find out the true net impact of Brexit. I just hope we have a safe pair of hands managing it, but the uncertainty there is also a concern.
Spoke to a friend in recruitment and virtually all but essential recruitment in banking and supporting industries has either been shelved or put on hold indefinitely. The biggest issue is investment from China and U.S. The reason why uk was such an attractive proposition was that it was a large domestic market combined with access to the EU market of 400 million. In other words, it was a preferred strategic base. Large bank were in the middle of moving operations to Manchester, offices recently constructed, now halted. I should add that is neither a pro or anti EU post. A plan needs to commence on the impact of this and how this is managed. Vague notions of empowerment and us being ok in years to come does not quite cut it. The main issue with the leavers argument for me is that all these nations who will be desperate to trade with us already do so and a large reason for them doing so was because we were in the EU.
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