| Ben Stokes 22:54 - Sep 27 with 11912 views | Daley_Lama |
Don't know what the fuss is all about having seen the video all over the t'interweb.
Bloke trying to hit his mate, Ben steps in and puts the violent fellow down. The aggressor's mates get involve and cop some too.
Proper chap, bring on the convicts. |  |
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| Ben Stokes (n/t) on 18:35 - Sep 28 with 2500 views | D_Alien |
| Ben Stokes on 18:25 - Sep 28 by D_Alien |
I'm afraid it's you who's talking nonsense, and I'd have to question why you're more interested in defending those who provoke high-profile individuals and then try to back out when they find they've bitten off more than they can chew?
I've been "coward punched" - about 10 minutes after taking issue with a bloke who was trying to jump the coats queue on the way out of a nightclub. He waited, hidden behind a pillar outside until I was walking past
I can tell you, in no uncertain terms, what we can see in the video is a million miles from a coward punch |
[Post edited 28 Sep 2017 18:36]
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| Ben Stokes on 18:36 - Sep 28 with 2497 views | D_Alien |
And your thumbs down, tony_roch, makes no difference to the facts (now retracted, fair enough)
I can fully understand people being dismayed that Stokes found himself in that situation - I am, too - but thank goodness we have people in this country who're prepared to defend themselves and then take the fight to the aggressor, it's secured our freedom many times over the years
[Post edited 28 Sep 2017 18:42]
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| Ben Stokes on 18:38 - Sep 28 with 2491 views | D_Alien |
| Ben Stokes on 18:33 - Sep 28 by VivaDonaldo |
You're going to have to help me here and point to where I've defwnded him?
I've said that the authorities should have been left to deal with it.
I'm very sorry that this has happened to you but this man obviously regretted his part in the altercation, had his hands down and was not expecting that punch.
Stokes had turned aggressor, was out of control and was dangerous. |
I'm not sorry, I'm just glad I stood up to the coward in the first place | |
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| Ben Stokes on 18:58 - Sep 28 with 2442 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Ben Stokes on 18:17 - Sep 28 by downunder |
What if he had not got involved like that? Concussion? Broken bottle and slashed neck?
OK so perhaps then the red mist has descended, but as others have said, he only threw punches. He was brought up in a Rugby League environment in Christchurch, (believe me, it is "full on" here) moved to Workington, again a pretty tough area from my own experience.
He looked after his mate and he looked after himself.
If you want to stop this happening, ban night clubs and alcohol.
It is arguable that he puts himself in these positions, but it is his choice, and I defend his right to that choice. |
As I said in another post, he shouldn't have been there.
England's best player, highly paid, really valuable - where's his taxi/car home, his minder and his way out of the nightclub in a way without this happening.
England's management will be looking at all of those things.
Unfortunately the video doesn't help Stokes' defence, particularly the last bit of it that blows the self defense argument apart. He follows that guy until he is on the ground and still wants to carry on.
His background is irrelevant. To the judicial system he is a 26 year old man committing an act of violence, on camera, at 2.30 in the morning.
Part of being a superstar is knowing when to walk away and ignore the provocation. Or planning how you will have a night out without being in the papers.
The text of the Michael Vaughan interview today is the most telling. Vaughan said:
"He's very streetwise on the pitch. He's very very cool. He's very commotted to playing the game.
He's got to be more streetwise away from the playing days now because he's not Ben Stokes of five or ten years ago - living in Cockermouth up in the North East where no-one knew where he was.
Now he's a global cricketing superstar. He gets £1.7 millon to play in the IPL. People know who he is.
You only have to look at what we know about the sitaution. He was out until 2.30am in the morning on Monday - two days away from an internation. He's hit someone, he's got arrested and he's the vice-captalin of England.
That for me is not streetwise at all." |  |
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| Ben Stokes on 20:21 - Sep 28 with 2363 views | 1mark1 |
| Ben Stokes on 16:04 - Sep 28 by ColDale |
Thanks the Sun for sensationalising it today making it front page news and putting pressure on the ECB to do something. There's been no new developments in the case since he was named in the squad, so its hard to look beyond today's front page as sparking this decision. Shouldn't be surprised though. |
Nothing surprises me about that poisonous rag. It cares more about it's profits, than that of the success of our national teams. |  |
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| Ben Stokes on 20:38 - Sep 28 with 2333 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Ben Stokes on 20:21 - Sep 28 by 1mark1 |
Nothing surprises me about that poisonous rag. It cares more about it's profits, than that of the success of our national teams. |
No surprise - Rupert Murdoch is Australian after all.... | |
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| Ben Stokes on 21:27 - Sep 28 with 2277 views | isitme |
| Ben Stokes on 20:21 - Sep 28 by 1mark1 |
Nothing surprises me about that poisonous rag. It cares more about it's profits, than that of the success of our national teams. |
Good job that this 'rag' has taken the moral high ground and not covered the story.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/28/ben-stokes-apologises-to-ecb-fol
Thankfully it doesn't care about it's profits as there is a message at the bottom of the article begging for money. |  | | |
| Ben Stokes on 21:43 - Sep 28 with 2249 views | 1mark1 |
Bit of a difference in the coverage. One has covered the story like most other news outlets, while the other has tried to sensationalise it. Also one has a history of spreading lies about football supporters and rubbishing England teams. | |
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| Ben Stokes on 22:46 - Sep 28 with 2191 views | pioneer |
| Ben Stokes on 20:38 - Sep 28 by RAFCBLUE |
No surprise - Rupert Murdoch is Australian after all.... |
Actually he is american having taken out US citizenship several years ago. |  | | |
| Ben Stokes on 22:52 - Sep 28 with 2187 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Ben Stokes on 22:46 - Sep 28 by pioneer |
Actually he is american having taken out US citizenship several years ago. |
No matter what Murdoch paid in 1985, at the age of 54, to secure his media interests in the US and buy their citizenship, he'll always be born in Melbourne. | |
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| Ben Stokes on 23:14 - Sep 28 with 2165 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Ben Stokes on 18:25 - Sep 28 by D_Alien |
I'm afraid it's you who's talking nonsense, and I'd have to question why you're more interested in defending those who provoke high-profile individuals and then try to back out when they find they've bitten off more than they can chew?
I've been "coward punched" - about 10 minutes after taking issue with a bloke who was trying to jump the coats queue on the way out of a nightclub. He waited, hidden behind a pillar outside until I was walking past
I can tell you, in no uncertain terms, what we can see in the video is a million miles from a coward punch |
He is Englands vice captain, he has previous, he is obviously a pillock. If he worked anywhere his employer would be unhappy at his actions. England will miss him he is a top player, if he hasn't worked out he is a target whilst pissed in a public place he must be either thick, or wanting a scrap |  |
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| Ben Stokes on 00:14 - Sep 29 with 2126 views | D_Alien |
| Ben Stokes on 23:14 - Sep 28 by rochdaleriddler |
He is Englands vice captain, he has previous, he is obviously a pillock. If he worked anywhere his employer would be unhappy at his actions. England will miss him he is a top player, if he hasn't worked out he is a target whilst pissed in a public place he must be either thick, or wanting a scrap |
It's apparently claimed by Stokes & Hales they got involved trying to defend a couple of gay lads who were being targeted
Whether that's true or not I don't know. Whether he's 'obviously' a pillock I don't know either, and neither do you. He might well be a delivery short of an over up top, but what I do know is he's entitled to a night out just like any other young bloke, and should have been able to do that without the hassle of security options. Maybe he should no longer be vice-captain, and I think being demoted (along with any judicial punishment) would be sufficient
The post you've replied to is about whether he threw a coward's punch, and imo it's a spurious claim by TipperaryDale, simple as that, and i'd again question the motivation of those who're so keen to make such claims | |
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| Ben Stokes on 01:05 - Sep 29 with 2111 views | RooleyMoorBlue |
| Ben Stokes on 00:14 - Sep 29 by D_Alien |
It's apparently claimed by Stokes & Hales they got involved trying to defend a couple of gay lads who were being targeted
Whether that's true or not I don't know. Whether he's 'obviously' a pillock I don't know either, and neither do you. He might well be a delivery short of an over up top, but what I do know is he's entitled to a night out just like any other young bloke, and should have been able to do that without the hassle of security options. Maybe he should no longer be vice-captain, and I think being demoted (along with any judicial punishment) would be sufficient
The post you've replied to is about whether he threw a coward's punch, and imo it's a spurious claim by TipperaryDale, simple as that, and i'd again question the motivation of those who're so keen to make such claims |
It`s just not cricket. |  | | |
| Ben Stokes on 01:21 - Sep 29 with 2104 views | downunder |
| Ben Stokes on 23:14 - Sep 28 by rochdaleriddler |
He is Englands vice captain, he has previous, he is obviously a pillock. If he worked anywhere his employer would be unhappy at his actions. England will miss him he is a top player, if he hasn't worked out he is a target whilst pissed in a public place he must be either thick, or wanting a scrap |
Was he pissed? He punched and landed at a better rate than Parker. The initial aggressor did a pretty good impression of Fury when he realised someone was standing up to him.
I defend his right to go out if he wants, when he wants, with or without a minder. A pity that "society" in the UK means that freedom is squeezed by the idiots (with bottles) that seem to have started the trouble in the first place |  | | |
| Ben Stokes on 09:48 - Sep 29 with 2018 views | rochdaleriddler |
Begging? Ha it's a request to contribute to the cost of providing an online service, to avoid them putting a paywall up, the times has one | |
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| Ben Stokes on 11:20 - Sep 29 with 1970 views | tony_roch975 |
| Ben Stokes on 18:36 - Sep 28 by D_Alien |
And your thumbs down, tony_roch, makes no difference to the facts (now retracted, fair enough)
I can fully understand people being dismayed that Stokes found himself in that situation - I am, too - but thank goodness we have people in this country who're prepared to defend themselves and then take the fight to the aggressor, it's secured our freedom many times over the years
[Post edited 28 Sep 2017 18:42]
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There may be an argument for standing up to a bully or for using violence in self-defence but prima facie at the end of the video, as VD put it, "Stokes had turned aggressor, was out of control and was dangerous". He was not 'defending' anyone so the use of violence is then a criminal offence (TDale set out Stokes history with anger). If he and Hales were 'coming to the aid of others' they had a number of (non-belligerent) options about how to do that. Advocating that your first response to a disagreement or threat should be belligerence or using more violence than the other may be popular or seen as unavoidable instinctive male chimp behaviour but our civilisation has moved on from many primitive behaviours. The 'fuss' is also about high profile sports role-models not encouraging their fans to use anger & violence to solve life's difficulties. Henderson rightly gets criticised on this forum for that weakness as well. | |
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| Ben Stokes on 11:40 - Sep 29 with 1946 views | D_Alien |
| Ben Stokes on 11:20 - Sep 29 by tony_roch975 |
There may be an argument for standing up to a bully or for using violence in self-defence but prima facie at the end of the video, as VD put it, "Stokes had turned aggressor, was out of control and was dangerous". He was not 'defending' anyone so the use of violence is then a criminal offence (TDale set out Stokes history with anger). If he and Hales were 'coming to the aid of others' they had a number of (non-belligerent) options about how to do that. Advocating that your first response to a disagreement or threat should be belligerence or using more violence than the other may be popular or seen as unavoidable instinctive male chimp behaviour but our civilisation has moved on from many primitive behaviours. The 'fuss' is also about high profile sports role-models not encouraging their fans to use anger & violence to solve life's difficulties. Henderson rightly gets criticised on this forum for that weakness as well. |
Fully understand that argument, and far from being an advocate for violence i abhor it, whilst recognising that sometimes its necessary to ensure the survival of our freedom and wellbeing; and incidentally I praised Hendo for his mature reaction last Tuesday earlier in the thread
What really irks me is those who seek to pass judgement based on a short video without knowing what preceded it; for instance, whether the lad at the end had been trying to land punches and was now chickening out when facing Stokes alone. I don't know, but neither do you, or rochdaleriddler, or Tipperary or VivaD but I sure as hell know if someone was attacking me then tried to run away I'd be following them. Wouldn't you? | |
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| Ben Stokes on 16:10 - Sep 29 with 1783 views | Bobbyjoe |
| Ben Stokes on 14:07 - Sep 28 by D_Alien |
Dec 2013 - 120 at the WACA
Jan 2014 - 6/99 at Sydney
May 2015 - 101 & 92 v NZ at Lord's
Aug 2015 - 6/36 v Australia at Trent Bridge
Jan 2016 - 258 in SA
Nov 2016 - 128 in India
Nov 2016 - 5/73 in India
Jul 2017 - 112 v SA at the Oval
Aug 2017 - 100 v WI at Headingley
Sep 2017 - 6/22 v WI at Lord's
Conclusion: if you want your sporting heroes to all be polite and equable characters, go watch croquet |
It's simply a matter of whether he has broken the law or not; his sporting prowess has no relevance, nor should it (whereas his previous conduct might). Regardless, he should be free to continue playing before, during and after any possible trial. (One can hardly think he'll go to prison!). Unfortunately, the TCCB (or whatever it's pleased to call itself now) has a long history of making moral judgements which make Mary Whitehouse look something akin to a dangerous liberal! | | | |
| Ben Stokes on 16:44 - Sep 29 with 1752 views | judd |
| Ben Stokes on 16:10 - Sep 29 by Bobbyjoe |
It's simply a matter of whether he has broken the law or not; his sporting prowess has no relevance, nor should it (whereas his previous conduct might). Regardless, he should be free to continue playing before, during and after any possible trial. (One can hardly think he'll go to prison!). Unfortunately, the TCCB (or whatever it's pleased to call itself now) has a long history of making moral judgements which make Mary Whitehouse look something akin to a dangerous liberal! |
...plus he's ginger. |  |
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| Ben Stokes on 17:20 - Sep 29 with 1707 views | roccydaleian |
| Ben Stokes on 16:44 - Sep 29 by judd |
...plus he's ginger. |
And proberbley tough by an sheep (8)  |  | | |
| Ben Stokes on 17:51 - Sep 29 with 1684 views | Glenn |
| Ben Stokes on 16:44 - Sep 29 by judd |
...plus he's ginger. |
And an immigrant. Don’t people usually want law breaking immigrants to be deported? |  | | |
| Ben Stokes on 17:56 - Sep 29 with 1679 views | D_Alien |
| Ben Stokes on 17:51 - Sep 29 by Glenn |
And an immigrant. Don’t people usually want law breaking immigrants to be deported? |
The authorities are doing their best to stop him getting on that plane... | |
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| Ben Stokes on 21:03 - Sep 29 with 1572 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Ben Stokes on 00:14 - Sep 29 by D_Alien |
It's apparently claimed by Stokes & Hales they got involved trying to defend a couple of gay lads who were being targeted
Whether that's true or not I don't know. Whether he's 'obviously' a pillock I don't know either, and neither do you. He might well be a delivery short of an over up top, but what I do know is he's entitled to a night out just like any other young bloke, and should have been able to do that without the hassle of security options. Maybe he should no longer be vice-captain, and I think being demoted (along with any judicial punishment) would be sufficient
The post you've replied to is about whether he threw a coward's punch, and imo it's a spurious claim by TipperaryDale, simple as that, and i'd again question the motivation of those who're so keen to make such claims |
I don't know him - true but he must know as a high profile sportsman that he will be provoked , filmed and judged. I'm not saying that is right, but it's true. The sponsors , the ECB. Etc require better. Violence isn't the answer . The man fighting for his life after the assault in Rochdale last night proves that. | |
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| Ben Stokes on 21:05 - Sep 29 with 1567 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Ben Stokes on 11:40 - Sep 29 by D_Alien |
Fully understand that argument, and far from being an advocate for violence i abhor it, whilst recognising that sometimes its necessary to ensure the survival of our freedom and wellbeing; and incidentally I praised Hendo for his mature reaction last Tuesday earlier in the thread
What really irks me is those who seek to pass judgement based on a short video without knowing what preceded it; for instance, whether the lad at the end had been trying to land punches and was now chickening out when facing Stokes alone. I don't know, but neither do you, or rochdaleriddler, or Tipperary or VivaD but I sure as hell know if someone was attacking me then tried to run away I'd be following them. Wouldn't you? |
Not watched the video, I abhor violence | |
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| Ben Stokes on 21:09 - Sep 29 with 1559 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Ben Stokes on 14:07 - Sep 28 by D_Alien |
Dec 2013 - 120 at the WACA
Jan 2014 - 6/99 at Sydney
May 2015 - 101 & 92 v NZ at Lord's
Aug 2015 - 6/36 v Australia at Trent Bridge
Jan 2016 - 258 in SA
Nov 2016 - 128 in India
Nov 2016 - 5/73 in India
Jul 2017 - 112 v SA at the Oval
Aug 2017 - 100 v WI at Headingley
Sep 2017 - 6/22 v WI at Lord's
Conclusion: if you want your sporting heroes to all be polite and equable characters, go watch croquet |
Irrelevant | |
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