| Share sale 11:34 - Jun 3 with 65937 views | fitzochris |
I understand the shares owned by Chris Dunphy, Bill Goodwin and Paul Hazelhurst have been sold to a US-based concern.
Keep an eye on Companies House over the coming weeks. |  |
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| Share sale on 16:53 - Jun 8 with 2876 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Share sale on 16:20 - Jun 8 by 49thseason |
I seriously doubt that Dumphy would have acted alone to turn down the Altman offer. Such a significant event would surely have to be a collective decision. However, it is entirely possible he personally could see benefits for the club and your suggested scenario could well be accurate. It is also possible that if Altman achieves 51% that CD could return to the board as a non exec. Director or Chairman assuming the Americans wouldn't be running it day to day. Who knows what discussions took place and may still be taking place.
The only certainty is that the club is not self sustaining in the sense of regular income matching outgoings, and without gates of 5-6000 probably never will be.
Andrew Kelly has done an excellent job with the Academy, no question, but to get to the next level, it needs investment as in a covered practice pitch and a match pitch. |
Bury fans were told SD1 was the only game in town. |  |
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| Share sale on 16:54 - Jun 8 with 2879 views | 1907 |
Can I just take a second to applaud AK for providing this statement. He didn’t have to do this, but he’s taken the time & put all fans in a more informed position than we were previous. In this modern age it’s easy to know more than you probably need to (or should do for that matter), it’s something all business’ & football clubs will need to understand & manage effectively moving forward.
For me, this board receives a hell of a lot of unfair criticism on this site. It is a fairly thankless & straining task & it’s about time most realised there’s isn’t a conspiracy to ruin the club.
Are they perfect? No. Will they make mistakes? Yes. Are the vast majority proper Dale fans? Absolutely.
It sounds to me like Altman & Co could well be the next milky bar providers. Fair play to our board for standing firm & not whoring us off for a packet of fags.
Fingers crossed all this publicity might convince some other investment firm to give us a go & pay us what we’re worth. | | | |
| Share sale on 16:55 - Jun 8 with 2872 views | rochedale |
| Share sale on 16:53 - Jun 8 by TomRAFC |
It's unusual to see a director use the official site to voice his personal opinion but it certainly clears a lot up.
They met Altman and Marcelli, liked them, but didn't accept their valuation of the shares and didn't trust their long term plans. All very reasonable. He'd have done himself a favour to focus on that.
Mr Kelly is a long term servant of the club but comments about share grabbing and no one having done more than him including CD make him sound more like a petulant bragging teenager rather than a level headed adult. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 16:57]
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Disagree with your final paragraph, he was just stating facts. |  |
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| Share sale on 17:00 - Jun 8 with 2815 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Share sale on 11:55 - Jun 8 by AtThePeake |
Not sure I agree there as these systems are often designed to see things that the naked eye doesn't always see or appreciate. Someone like O'Grady may have popped up if searching for a player with high numbers in less obvious metrics than goals scored - maybe stuff like aerial balls won, successful first touches, successful passes in the final third. (They'd actually be more far more nuanced and in-depth than these but these are just a few that I've looked at for work in the past).
Some of the players that Brentford have signed will not have been particularly obvious successes at Championship level based on their records at previous clubs but have been bought for very reasonable fees as a result, utilised correctly in their first team and then seen their value rise dramatically. They've made millions in profit on the likes of Maupay, Konsa, Woods and indeed Scott Hogan and would likely make huge profit on the likes of Benrahma and Jeanvier if they were to move on now.
They signed Dru Yearwood from Southend at the start of the season - a diminutive central midfielder with no career goals in over 50 games who wasn't particularly being talked about as a star at League One level. Judging on the two games I've seen him play I suspect he ranks very highly in pass completion, ground covered, tackles won etc and I wouldn't be surprised to see him eventually nail down a first-team place and leave Brentford for a lot more than the £450k they signed him for. |
Altman argues that ‘it wasn’t him’ but his time at Swansea was not by any measure a success.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/swansea-citys- | |
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| Share sale on 17:09 - Jun 8 with 2759 views | Brierls |
| Share sale on 16:03 - Jun 8 by AussieDale |
Assuming AK's comments are an accurate representation of the facts what does it say about CD, much lauded in this thread, and in sharp contrast to views expressed about the present chairman and other current board members. |
That's the elephant in the room.
Chris Dunphy is and always will be a club legend, no doubt. AK's comments around the latter part of his reign, and share dealings with Altman and Marcelli, will raise some eyebrows.
The new 'evil' board took over and cut the budget. They got some grief for it at the time. They appear to be suspicious of Altman and Marcelli's long term intentions. Maybe they are more protective, and better custodians, of the club than many give them credit for. |  | | |
| Share sale on 17:11 - Jun 8 with 2744 views | 1907 |
| Share sale on 17:09 - Jun 8 by Brierls |
That's the elephant in the room.
Chris Dunphy is and always will be a club legend, no doubt. AK's comments around the latter part of his reign, and share dealings with Altman and Marcelli, will raise some eyebrows.
The new 'evil' board took over and cut the budget. They got some grief for it at the time. They appear to be suspicious of Altman and Marcelli's long term intentions. Maybe they are more protective, and better custodians, of the club than many give them credit for. |
Couldn’t agree more with your last paragraph. It’s about time certain people started to give this board the respect they deserve.
There’s nothing wrong with challenging & questioning in the right way, but some of the posts and comments I’ve seen through this thread have made me wince. | | | |
| Share sale on 17:19 - Jun 8 with 2688 views | Stourdale |
I keep thinking to myself that we could be perfect for Altman to prove his system without him actually proving the system.
We already have a fantastic youth setup which is now well known in football circles.
He comes in with a £2.4m investment and improves the training facilities etc at a time when we potentially have 3 or 4 very decent youth players. He buys in a couple of marquee (for Rochdale) players and we see an improvement at a increased monthly expenditure.
Bingo, clubs come calling and he makes a decent profit on his system. Leaving the dale in the lurch.
The worry for me is that the board obviously don’t see that he is going to add enough value to the club. They could be left holding a diluted share holding of a club worth a lot less and vastly increased overheads | | | |
| Share sale on 17:19 - Jun 8 with 2688 views | Brierls |
| Share sale on 15:34 - Jun 8 by rochdaleriddler |
This reads to me like Andrew kelly wanted to sell his shares, but wasn’t offered enough money, or the Americans weren’t in a position to buy. Does seem odd Dunphy didn’t want them to invest but then sold his shares to them |
Read it again. Particularly the bit about contacting Altman and Marcelli and his reason for doing so. | | | |
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| Share sale on 17:22 - Jun 8 with 2661 views | 49thseason |
| Share sale on 16:53 - Jun 8 by BigDaveMyCock |
Bury fans were told SD1 was the only game in town. |
Chalk and cheese, bury were on the edge of extiction when Day arrived, they were offered a lifebelt and grabbed it , you cant blame them for that. They managed a few more seasons and ended up back at square one. |  | | |
| Share sale on 17:28 - Jun 8 with 2619 views | fitzochris |
| Share sale on 14:48 - Jun 5 by fitzochris |
What’s to mull over? There was clearly an investment proposal but the money on offer didn’t match what the board felt a stake in the club was worth.
Interestingly, Chris Dunphy did, and so took Altman up on his offer once he no longer had anything to do with the club.
As I posted earlier in this thread, Chris Dunphy was talking to Altman while he was still Chairman. |
Just quoting this again after receiving some unfair messages about my motivations.
Anybody who thinks I haven’t spoken to Andy Kelly while all this has been going on, doesn’t know me very well. | |
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| Share sale on 17:39 - Jun 8 with 2545 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Share sale on 17:22 - Jun 8 by 49thseason |
Chalk and cheese, bury were on the edge of extiction when Day arrived, they were offered a lifebelt and grabbed it , you cant blame them for that. They managed a few more seasons and ended up back at square one. |
But you’ve presented this ‘investment’ as the only investment and that it has to be taken to ensure the club’s survival. | |
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| Share sale on 17:40 - Jun 8 with 2537 views | Brierls |
| Share sale on 17:28 - Jun 8 by fitzochris |
Just quoting this again after receiving some unfair messages about my motivations.
Anybody who thinks I haven’t spoken to Andy Kelly while all this has been going on, doesn’t know me very well. |
Anybody questioning your motive needs to give their head a wobble. You have brought things into the open for all fans to see. I for one am grateful for that. | | | |
| Share sale on 18:02 - Jun 8 with 2407 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Share sale on 17:19 - Jun 8 by Brierls |
Read it again. Particularly the bit about contacting Altman and Marcelli and his reason for doing so. |
I don’t need to, it could be that he is covering his tracks in case news that he was trying to sell his shares gets out. Thing is Chris Dunphy was/is a hero to some on here, and yet his motives are now being questioned . It may well be that Andrew Kelly has only the interests of the club at heart, but people said that about Dunphy. I think we may have to wait a long while to get all the facts out in the open. I’m glad fitz started the ball rolling. It’s getting interesting |  |
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| Share sale on 18:02 - Jun 8 with 2401 views | 442Dale |
| Share sale on 17:40 - Jun 8 by Brierls |
Anybody questioning your motive needs to give their head a wobble. You have brought things into the open for all fans to see. I for one am grateful for that. |
Seconded. Imagine the confusion if this news had been stumbled across when the shareholders list was released as normal. Thanks to Fitzo’s work we are all more aware of the situation. |  |
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| Share sale on 18:08 - Jun 8 with 2364 views | fitzochris |
| Share sale on 17:40 - Jun 8 by Brierls |
Anybody questioning your motive needs to give their head a wobble. You have brought things into the open for all fans to see. I for one am grateful for that. |
Thanks Brierls. Some people just go whichever way the wind is blowing, sadly. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. | |
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| Share sale on 18:13 - Jun 8 with 2340 views | TalkingSutty |
| Share sale on 16:43 - Jun 8 by rochedale |
I read it as he’d offered his shares to try and identify how much CD got for his. I only read through it once and quickly, so I could be wrong. |
He did offer his shares though and I’m glad that he mentioned it in his statement, did any of the others Directors offer to sell their shares also, and if they did what was the asking price? This is only one side of the story but obviously the potential investors will have theirs and so will Chris Dunphy and Bill Goodwin. Maybe they will decide to use this same platform to either confirm or deny Mr Kelly’s version of events, clarification for the Supporters would be welcome. The invitation to meet up personally on a one on one is also something else that should be applauded and I’m going to take him up on that once this epidemic clears off. |  | | |
| Share sale on 18:22 - Jun 8 with 2280 views | James1980 |
| Share sale on 18:13 - Jun 8 by TalkingSutty |
He did offer his shares though and I’m glad that he mentioned it in his statement, did any of the others Directors offer to sell their shares also, and if they did what was the asking price? This is only one side of the story but obviously the potential investors will have theirs and so will Chris Dunphy and Bill Goodwin. Maybe they will decide to use this same platform to either confirm or deny Mr Kelly’s version of events, clarification for the Supporters would be welcome. The invitation to meet up personally on a one on one is also something else that should be applauded and I’m going to take him up on that once this epidemic clears off. |
Maybe a few of you more clued up and articulate could organise a video conference with AK. | |
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| Share sale on 18:23 - Jun 8 with 2273 views | 100notout |
So Altman / Marcelli own 15%, the board own 37% and other key shareholders (Dale Trust, Graham Morris, David Kilpatrick, Geoffrey Brierley and Executors of the late Jim Marsh) own 23%.
I sense a lack of trust from the BOD towards Altman / Marcelli and with just 15% of the club they have very little if any leverage to do anything, let alone introduce a new scouting / player assessment or whatever you want to call it system. Lord knows what the Americans next step will be.
As someone said earlier, buckle up we may be in for a bumpy ride. | |
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| Share sale on 18:26 - Jun 8 with 2255 views | kel |
| Share sale on 18:08 - Jun 8 by fitzochris |
Thanks Brierls. Some people just go whichever way the wind is blowing, sadly. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. |
“Some people just go whichever way the wind is blowing, sadly.”
Infookingdeed. Some seem to think that they are an unofficial spokesman for the common man but are always pushing their personal agenda. The 24 hour turnaround on one such opinion was absolutely laughable whilst also pathetic.
I’m another who wants to congratulate on your good work btw. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 18:27]
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| Share sale on 18:29 - Jun 8 with 2219 views | TVOS1907 |
| Share sale on 12:14 - Jun 8 by fitzochris |
My only agenda is to inform supporters of what is going on in a fashion I myself would like to be informed. Nothing more, nothing less. |
I think starting one of the responses with "Not really" is very dismissive of what led to that question in the first place. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Share sale on 18:31 - Jun 8 with 2207 views | TalkingSutty |
| Share sale on 18:22 - Jun 8 by James1980 |
Maybe a few of you more clued up and articulate could organise a video conference with AK. |
Some might want to do that but i don’t..and I wouldn’t describe myself as articulate neither. | | | |
| Share sale on 18:42 - Jun 8 with 2114 views | 442Dale |
On the Trust statement, and specifically the MOU, this was from November:
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2019/11/meeting-with-the-directors-nov-2019/
<<“Given the club have admitted to having “Non-Disclosure agreements” signed, how far along is the club in obtaining investment, and will the club agree to keep the Trust abreast of any club ownership developments as agreed in the MOU?
The Board admitted that they were in discussions but the nature of a non-disclosure agreement meant that they were limited to what they could say about it. They agreed that they would keep the Trust informed of any potential changes.”>>
Yesterday’s statement includes this:
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2020/06/questions-for-the-trust/
<<“ Do the Trust feel in any way let down, or deceived, by not being kept abreast of the developing story, prior to the excellent piece of work carried out by Fitzochris?
Not really. It’s been stated by Dan Altman and Emre Marcelli that this has only come to light in the last few days because the share register will be in the public domain in the next two weeks rather than as a result of recent developments. We were given a copy of the last shareholder register (not by the club) and this is something we worked on ahead of the proposed EGM earlier this year. Once the new register was released into the public domain, we would have noticed the changes. It is our understanding from discussions over the last few days that there not been any developments to this story for many months other than news of the share purchase entering the public domain.”>> | |
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| Share sale on 19:22 - Jun 8 with 1944 views | AtThePeake |
Probably should have made it clear that I wasn't defending Altman specifically as my knowledge of SmarterScout is at best limited. Obviously the main issue here is about the ownership of the club, but I was just defending the use of analytics when it comes to identifying players as it is a system that has clearly worked for other clubs and I don't think it's something that should be rejected out of hand. |  |
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| Share sale on 19:52 - Jun 8 with 1824 views | RAFCBLUE |
So AK's shares are not for sale. 12% of the club.
Having heard all of the explanations at the fans forum, I don't get why all this only comes out from the start of this thread 5 days ago.
AK admits he set a honeytrap was set for Altman and in Christmas 2019 they declined to purchase Andrew Kelly's shares. We know now that that is just after the transfer of the Dunphy/Goodwin shares to Altman and Marcelli in late 2019 and while Altman was talking to the Board about investment.
The Board said categorically in their 5 June statement that discussions "stalled" last year. That's now not true. Altman and Marcelli refused to pay the price quoted on 24 December 2019 and meet the Board's valuation for the 51%. AK has published the email.
I also don't see how that statement changes anything. Our three biggest shareholders are:
* Andrew Kilpatrick - 22%
* Dan Altman and Emre Marcelli - 15%
* Andrew Kelly - 10%
* Others - 63%
Andrew Kilpatrick ends this game at a suitable future point as kingmaker. If he sells to Altman and Marcelli they are effectively there.
The other directors referenced by AK to get a resolution through are David Kilpatrick (76 years old), Graham Morris (78 years old), Andrew Kelly (76 years old) & Andrew Kilpatrick (59 years old). We are not blessed with youth around the Boardroom table to learn from that collective experience.
Aged 46, Altman has time to play the long game.
This story has a long way to run. |  |
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| Share sale on 19:54 - Jun 8 with 1809 views | pioneer |
| Share sale on 16:53 - Jun 8 by TomRAFC |
It's unusual to see a director use the official site to voice his personal opinion but it certainly clears a lot up.
They met Altman and Marcelli, liked them, but didn't accept their valuation of the shares and didn't trust their long term plans. All very reasonable. He'd have done himself a favour to focus on that.
Mr Kelly is a long term servant of the club but comments about share grabbing and no one having done more than him including CD make him sound more like a petulant bragging teenager rather than a level headed adult. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 16:57]
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I wish it was clearing things up for me. It is probably unprecedented for a director to single handedly express his views in this way onthe clubs official website, without this being approved by the clubs board. Well that is assuming he did not seek or receive such approval....more conjecture.
I doubt we shall ever learn the full story, and that worries me even more. | | | |
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