| David Bottomley 09:06 - Nov 17 with 18773 views | wimborne_dale |
Just heard our chief executive on the Today Programme talking about how EFL clubs need help to compensate for loss of paying fans. Radio 4 about 8:55. |  |
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| David Bottomley on 10:38 - Nov 17 with 8515 views | judd |
Wasn’t it Ancelloti who said football is the most important of the less important things?
That’s probably where we are at with this government.
Reading the transcript of the last select committee meeting there appears little sympathy for the football industry in general. |  |
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| David Bottomley on 10:42 - Nov 17 with 8510 views | DorkingDale |
He seems to becoming a regular on there and comes across well. |  | | |
| David Bottomley on 12:30 - Nov 17 with 8319 views | D_Alien |
| David Bottomley on 10:38 - Nov 17 by judd |
Wasn’t it Ancelloti who said football is the most important of the less important things?
That’s probably where we are at with this government.
Reading the transcript of the last select committee meeting there appears little sympathy for the football industry in general. |
It's difficult to see why they should have sympathy, tbf
There's a discussion to be had over the value to local communities of solvent clubs like Dale, but those who're struggling through profligacy can't be afforded sympathy - we don't afford them sympathy!
With the money sloshing around in the Premier League, i'd say all the government can do is to try to encourage a financial deal between that league and the EFL, which is pretty much what's been happening
All clubs were able to benefit (and continue to do so) from the furlough scheme. There was a significant sum handed to 'the arts' to help tide them over, but that's a very wide-ranging group of bodies who wouldn't otherwise have recourse to any form of income (including sponsorship through advertising, for instance) during lockdown and would definitely have had to pack up shop
Dale seem to be surviving due to good governance, and providing the EFL can sort out a deal with the Premier League, all but the most spendthrift clubs should do so too. In such circumstances, and with so many other viable businesses in pretty much the same boat, it's difficult to see how government can be seen to be making a special case for football when much of the problem stems from huge rises in wage bills, far above the averages for most people |  |
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| David Bottomley on 12:46 - Nov 17 with 8283 views | judd |
| David Bottomley on 12:30 - Nov 17 by D_Alien |
It's difficult to see why they should have sympathy, tbf
There's a discussion to be had over the value to local communities of solvent clubs like Dale, but those who're struggling through profligacy can't be afforded sympathy - we don't afford them sympathy!
With the money sloshing around in the Premier League, i'd say all the government can do is to try to encourage a financial deal between that league and the EFL, which is pretty much what's been happening
All clubs were able to benefit (and continue to do so) from the furlough scheme. There was a significant sum handed to 'the arts' to help tide them over, but that's a very wide-ranging group of bodies who wouldn't otherwise have recourse to any form of income (including sponsorship through advertising, for instance) during lockdown and would definitely have had to pack up shop
Dale seem to be surviving due to good governance, and providing the EFL can sort out a deal with the Premier League, all but the most spendthrift clubs should do so too. In such circumstances, and with so many other viable businesses in pretty much the same boat, it's difficult to see how government can be seen to be making a special case for football when much of the problem stems from huge rises in wage bills, far above the averages for most people |
Indeed,massive empathy for Rochdale, but we cannot go solo in seeking compensation based on matchday income. It accounts for c. 15% of income in any case and how much has been collected via season ticket sales (a lot reduced on last season for many reasons, of course)
Issues highlighted in the select committee transcript include:
> £1.7 billion agreed in transfer fees this summer at PL level
> 107% of income spent on salaries in the Championship
> I think c. £90m owed to HMRC by clubs (would need to check that)
> Massive over-reliance on sponsorship and in particular from gambling
With regards the furlough scheme, this is a job retention scheme whereby it is used to avoid redundancy or lay-off. If clubs are allowed to recruit whilst furloughing staff, whilst probably not illegal, is probably immoral in the eyes of the Government.
I did hear one former football chairman who was adamant that any funds made available to EFL clubs should not be issued as cash to individual clubs, but rather as a draw down credit facility to pay specific debts such as PAYE and VAT, and the administration of such payments taken out of the hands of those less trustworthy. | |
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| David Bottomley on 12:53 - Nov 17 with 8246 views | D_Alien |
| David Bottomley on 12:46 - Nov 17 by judd |
Indeed,massive empathy for Rochdale, but we cannot go solo in seeking compensation based on matchday income. It accounts for c. 15% of income in any case and how much has been collected via season ticket sales (a lot reduced on last season for many reasons, of course)
Issues highlighted in the select committee transcript include:
> £1.7 billion agreed in transfer fees this summer at PL level
> 107% of income spent on salaries in the Championship
> I think c. £90m owed to HMRC by clubs (would need to check that)
> Massive over-reliance on sponsorship and in particular from gambling
With regards the furlough scheme, this is a job retention scheme whereby it is used to avoid redundancy or lay-off. If clubs are allowed to recruit whilst furloughing staff, whilst probably not illegal, is probably immoral in the eyes of the Government.
I did hear one former football chairman who was adamant that any funds made available to EFL clubs should not be issued as cash to individual clubs, but rather as a draw down credit facility to pay specific debts such as PAYE and VAT, and the administration of such payments taken out of the hands of those less trustworthy. |
"If clubs are allowed to recruit whilst furloughing staff, whilst probably not illegal, is probably immoral in the eyes of the Government."
And
"I did hear one former football chairman who was adamant that any funds made available to EFL clubs should not be issued as cash to individual clubs, but rather as a draw down credit facility to pay specific debts such as PAYE and VAT, and the administration of such payments taken out of the hands of those less trustworthy."
Excellent points | |
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| David Bottomley on 15:15 - Nov 17 with 7988 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
Talking of Radio 4....I see they are using the gender neutral description for fishermen as "fisherpeople" in Brexit context.
Are we going completely mad?
PS Women make up less than 3% of trawler fisherpeople. | | | |
| David Bottomley on 15:33 - Nov 17 with 7966 views | judd |
| David Bottomley on 15:15 - Nov 17 by Yorkshire_Dale |
Talking of Radio 4....I see they are using the gender neutral description for fishermen as "fisherpeople" in Brexit context.
Are we going completely mad?
PS Women make up less than 3% of trawler fisherpeople. |
I'm surprised any of them wear make up. | |
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| David Bottomley on 15:56 - Nov 17 with 7925 views | DaleiLama |
| David Bottomley on 15:33 - Nov 17 by judd |
I'm surprised any of them wear make up. |
Probably only the ones fishing in the Avon estuary? |  |
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| David Bottomley on 16:08 - Nov 17 with 7894 views | Ancoats_Blue |
| David Bottomley on 15:15 - Nov 17 by Yorkshire_Dale |
Talking of Radio 4....I see they are using the gender neutral description for fishermen as "fisherpeople" in Brexit context.
Are we going completely mad?
PS Women make up less than 3% of trawler fisherpeople. |
I’m still surprised fishing is such a hot topic around Brexit. The fishing industry makes up such a tiny portion of our GDP and workforce. 0.1% for each. |  | | |
| David Bottomley on 16:18 - Nov 17 with 7868 views | judd |
| David Bottomley on 16:08 - Nov 17 by Ancoats_Blue |
I’m still surprised fishing is such a hot topic around Brexit. The fishing industry makes up such a tiny portion of our GDP and workforce. 0.1% for each. |
Fish processing could be a significant industry though, with good growth potential if foreign trawlers were to land their catches at UK ports. | |
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| David Bottomley on 17:26 - Nov 17 with 7745 views | D_Alien |
| David Bottomley on 16:08 - Nov 17 by Ancoats_Blue |
I’m still surprised fishing is such a hot topic around Brexit. The fishing industry makes up such a tiny portion of our GDP and workforce. 0.1% for each. |
I think our fishing towns/villages are examples of "left behind" communities that were once thriving. To raise their economic profile would require the abandonment of the EU fishing quota system. On the other hand, to ignore their needs would be to go against the agenda that resulted in Brexit being voted for in the first place | |
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| David Bottomley on 19:12 - Nov 17 with 7503 views | wimborne_dale |
Can't you be a fisherman even if you're female. Fisherman could be a job description rather than a gender. I'm sure women's cricket has batsmen rather than batspeople. | |
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| David Bottomley on 19:21 - Nov 17 with 7474 views | tony_roch975 |
| David Bottomley on 17:26 - Nov 17 by D_Alien |
I think our fishing towns/villages are examples of "left behind" communities that were once thriving. To raise their economic profile would require the abandonment of the EU fishing quota system. On the other hand, to ignore their needs would be to go against the agenda that resulted in Brexit being voted for in the first place |
once thriving half a century ago; and therein lies the dilemma - as you rightly say, Brexit was largely about telling "left behind" communities that laisser-faire capitalism would work for them too if only we could be free of EU shackles like the protection of workers & environmental rights. To achieve that would mean abandoning any deal with the EU - a cost worth paying in Dec 2019 but sounds like Boris is about to go for the very compromise deal he was so opposed to when Theresa May proposed it. | |
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| David Bottomley on 19:23 - Nov 17 with 7464 views | tony_roch975 |
| David Bottomley on 19:12 - Nov 17 by wimborne_dale |
Can't you be a fisherman even if you're female. Fisherman could be a job description rather than a gender. I'm sure women's cricket has batsmen rather than batspeople. |
think it has "batters" | |
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| David Bottomley on 19:32 - Nov 17 with 7426 views | D_Alien |
| David Bottomley on 19:23 - Nov 17 by tony_roch975 |
think it has "batters" |
Sounds a bit fishy | |
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| David Bottomley on 19:38 - Nov 17 with 7403 views | rochdaleriddler |
| David Bottomley on 16:08 - Nov 17 by Ancoats_Blue |
I’m still surprised fishing is such a hot topic around Brexit. The fishing industry makes up such a tiny portion of our GDP and workforce. 0.1% for each. |
It literally is a red herring, whoever catches the fish , they are mostly sold on the continent, if we have no deal, there will be tariffs , if we have a deal then the EU will have prevailed . Many of our fishing licences were sold to foreigners years ago, by British fishers . |  |
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| David Bottomley on 20:06 - Nov 17 with 7339 views | James1980 |
| David Bottomley on 19:38 - Nov 17 by rochdaleriddler |
It literally is a red herring, whoever catches the fish , they are mostly sold on the continent, if we have no deal, there will be tariffs , if we have a deal then the EU will have prevailed . Many of our fishing licences were sold to foreigners years ago, by British fishers . |
https://descrier.co.uk/politics/brexit-nigel-farage-turned-one-42-eu-fisheries-c Don't forget Farage cared so much about the fishing industry he attended 1 meeting of the fisheries committee. [Post edited 17 Nov 2020 20:35]
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| David Bottomley on 20:31 - Nov 17 with 7290 views | Dalenet |
| David Bottomley on 19:38 - Nov 17 by rochdaleriddler |
It literally is a red herring, whoever catches the fish , they are mostly sold on the continent, if we have no deal, there will be tariffs , if we have a deal then the EU will have prevailed . Many of our fishing licences were sold to foreigners years ago, by British fishers . |
There is a catch 22 here. Pardon the pun. We want control of our fishing and our seas. The Brits have spent decades eating just cod, haddock, farmed salmon and farmed seabass. Where can you buy a range of the fresh fish we catch? Where can you buy Langoustines or our Lobster? Where are our fishmongers and markets? The supermarkets stock the top 5 or 6 at best. Try buying fresh shellfish or turbot or monkfish. In the main the Europeans pay for quality food whereas the majority of the British public just want cheap food. Will be interesting to see whether the Europeans will be prepared to pay more for the seafood we export. If not we, as a nation, will need to start thinking differently about our food or we will regret the outcome. I don't want even cheaper food imported from the US or China | | | |
| David Bottomley on 20:43 - Nov 17 with 7266 views | jonahwhereru |
| David Bottomley on 16:08 - Nov 17 by Ancoats_Blue |
I’m still surprised fishing is such a hot topic around Brexit. The fishing industry makes up such a tiny portion of our GDP and workforce. 0.1% for each. |
Added to the fact that over 50% of the English fishing fleet licences are held by Europeans, mostly french. Those canny Scots saw the dangers in selling there fleet off and only 3% is in foreign hands.
It also makes a bit of a mockery of the stalemate in EU talks around fisheries. More than half the British catch is sold to Europe. If they were to implement tough import sanctions on British fish the market would diminish severely. Meaning the benefit of reducing foreign boats fishing in British waters be negated by the reduced market. We ain’t got a strong negotiating hand here. | | | |
| David Bottomley on 21:02 - Nov 17 with 7231 views | D_Alien |
| David Bottomley on 20:43 - Nov 17 by jonahwhereru |
Added to the fact that over 50% of the English fishing fleet licences are held by Europeans, mostly french. Those canny Scots saw the dangers in selling there fleet off and only 3% is in foreign hands.
It also makes a bit of a mockery of the stalemate in EU talks around fisheries. More than half the British catch is sold to Europe. If they were to implement tough import sanctions on British fish the market would diminish severely. Meaning the benefit of reducing foreign boats fishing in British waters be negated by the reduced market. We ain’t got a strong negotiating hand here. |
Why would they implement tough import sanctions? Their populations enjoy eating our produce. Any such action would be entirely punitive rather than economically justified, thus confirming what many suspected all along... but it won't happen anyway
Scaremongering, not fishmongering | |
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| David Bottomley on 21:52 - Nov 17 with 7144 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| David Bottomley on 20:31 - Nov 17 by Dalenet |
There is a catch 22 here. Pardon the pun. We want control of our fishing and our seas. The Brits have spent decades eating just cod, haddock, farmed salmon and farmed seabass. Where can you buy a range of the fresh fish we catch? Where can you buy Langoustines or our Lobster? Where are our fishmongers and markets? The supermarkets stock the top 5 or 6 at best. Try buying fresh shellfish or turbot or monkfish. In the main the Europeans pay for quality food whereas the majority of the British public just want cheap food. Will be interesting to see whether the Europeans will be prepared to pay more for the seafood we export. If not we, as a nation, will need to start thinking differently about our food or we will regret the outcome. I don't want even cheaper food imported from the US or China |
There's a really good Fish booth on Todmorden outdoor market..... | | | |
| David Bottomley on 22:06 - Nov 17 with 7120 views | rochdaleriddler |
| David Bottomley on 21:02 - Nov 17 by D_Alien |
Why would they implement tough import sanctions? Their populations enjoy eating our produce. Any such action would be entirely punitive rather than economically justified, thus confirming what many suspected all along... but it won't happen anyway
Scaremongering, not fishmongering |
We will see what happens when the talks flounder | |
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| David Bottomley on 22:28 - Nov 17 with 7089 views | DaleiLama |
| David Bottomley on 22:06 - Nov 17 by rochdaleriddler |
We will see what happens when the talks flounder |
FT reporting a post-Brexit deal may be in plaice next week? | |
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