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Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 19:43 - Feb 10 with 580 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 19:40 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1
I make the suggestion that if the members owned the Trust like a unit trust the shares would without doubt have been part sold if not completely sold in the Premier league at Premier league prices. Financial benefit has long been a driving force for making deals happen. The members would have demanded a sale.
Why would the members have decided to accept an inferior deal than what the sellouts received?
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 20:05 - Feb 10 by Chief
But the trust weren't involved at the start of the process and weren't offered the same terms!
Is this a wind up?
If t it was the members own money they would have had a clear mandate to sell and would have been in at the start of the process in my opinion. It is just an opinion.
The Trust body is a strange beast invented by someone who did not anticipate the problems it would cause. Swansea city Trust is a great business PhD for someone.
The Trust want protection from dilution. Why? Where else in business does this occur.? Who else in business has protection from dilution?
Wise sage since Toshack era
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 21:32 - Feb 10 with 493 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 21:16 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1
If t it was the members own money they would have had a clear mandate to sell and would have been in at the start of the process in my opinion. It is just an opinion.
The Trust body is a strange beast invented by someone who did not anticipate the problems it would cause. Swansea city Trust is a great business PhD for someone.
The Trust want protection from dilution. Why? Where else in business does this occur.? Who else in business has protection from dilution?
A mandate to sell wouldn't have meant sell at any offer that gets offered though. In your silly scenario and in real life the trust would be silly to accept an offer on lesser terms than the sellouts received. They are well within their rights to pursue parity. There is zero evidence the Americans would have offered better terms if the trust had stated they were dying to sell up. Probably the opposite.
Oh god we're back to the dilution thing yet again are we!?
Of course the trust want protection from dilution. They want to maintain or increase their holding to have a real say in club policy and protect their value. In an ideal world.
It isn't an ideal world so they are hoping to monitise instead.
Did you forget that this has already been pointed out to you several times in this thread already? I know you're getting on in years but come on....
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 13:59 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1
Let me explain it to you again.
The fact that the Trust are desperately poor at investment is crucial to the argument of going to court. I put forward a scenario whereby if the Trust go to court the US people's worst case scenario is that they would have to buy the Trust's shares for £21m. The US people and sellers have £13m immediately accessible in the Swansea city coffers. This money can be withdrawn and converted into debt for someone like Mr Dell to pick up at 9% pa. That cover 62% of the "worse case" bill.
The Trust will argue that the £13m recovered from the Convertible loan note is far better off in their account than being spent by Winter. For a non Trust member like yourself.
Is the £13m better off
a) relaying the pitch painting the stadium steelworks buying players for the team and academy etc
or
b) Earning 0.15% in the Santander in the Trust account. 4.85% less than inflation.
The Trust need present a case to non Trust member like you and me they can earn more than inflation with this £13m money and invest it better than Winter can.
There are no proposal or track record to show this. All the shareholders should be working for the betterment of Swansea city as a whole.
If they want to sell their shares they do not need anyone's permission. The first part of selling is deciding if you want to sell. This has two options. Yes or No. They can sell to anyone they like for a price of their choosing if they can find a buyer to agree.
The current narrative is no one wants their shares because it is a minority holding. This is fake. Most share held are minority stakes. Another myth is that the shares are 'worthless'. That is for the fairies too.
The Trust don't need to present anything to you or Non Trust members. The issue of the £13m being spent by Winter is neither here or there. The matter in need of consideration and resolution is whether the Trust have been adversely impacted by the sellers/purchasers during the share sale, we’ll know when it’s either resolved amicably or in Court.
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 21:16 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1
If t it was the members own money they would have had a clear mandate to sell and would have been in at the start of the process in my opinion. It is just an opinion.
The Trust body is a strange beast invented by someone who did not anticipate the problems it would cause. Swansea city Trust is a great business PhD for someone.
The Trust want protection from dilution. Why? Where else in business does this occur.? Who else in business has protection from dilution?
"Invented by someone who didn't anticipate the problems of would cause"
Let's get one thing straight, from day 1 the Trust had help support and guidance from Supporters Direct which was originally set up by the Government with cross party support.
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:20 - Feb 10 with 439 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 21:16 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1
If t it was the members own money they would have had a clear mandate to sell and would have been in at the start of the process in my opinion. It is just an opinion.
The Trust body is a strange beast invented by someone who did not anticipate the problems it would cause. Swansea city Trust is a great business PhD for someone.
The Trust want protection from dilution. Why? Where else in business does this occur.? Who else in business has protection from dilution?
Haven’t we been through this already?
Any minority shareholder with 25.1% of the business can veto special resolutions like share issues, and this dilution, should they choose.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 21:41 - Feb 10 by 3swan
"Invented by someone who didn't anticipate the problems of would cause"
Let's get one thing straight, from day 1 the Trust had help support and guidance from Supporters Direct which was originally set up by the Government with cross party support.
Chief tells me the Trust have severe restriction on investing in stocks and shares and bonds to protect their asset / cash against inflation. So it is the governments fault then? Or is Chief just wrong.? Inflation has been low. Not anymore people need to act.
Can you enlighten us on what they can invest in to protect they holding against inflation?.
The Trust have been getting 0.15% interest of £880,000. If it cannot do better than this it should shut itself down. Is it a service for the interests of the banking sector?. The Government supporting the banking sector.?
The model terms are written in legalise, cross referencing another document. I have recommended professional business advice to determine what they can and cannot do and publish the report for all to see. The report should be written such that members can understand it. Can they invest in bonds shares gilts etc with their surpluses? .
I have a feeling the trust system was never designed for Premier league clubs. Swansea may have broken the glass ceiling. Investment is not required for clubs that do not grow like Exeter city.
Things always need to be questioned.
Wise sage since Toshack era
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:31 - Feb 10 with 418 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:28 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1
Chief tells me the Trust have severe restriction on investing in stocks and shares and bonds to protect their asset / cash against inflation. So it is the governments fault then? Or is Chief just wrong.? Inflation has been low. Not anymore people need to act.
Can you enlighten us on what they can invest in to protect they holding against inflation?.
The Trust have been getting 0.15% interest of £880,000. If it cannot do better than this it should shut itself down. Is it a service for the interests of the banking sector?. The Government supporting the banking sector.?
The model terms are written in legalise, cross referencing another document. I have recommended professional business advice to determine what they can and cannot do and publish the report for all to see. The report should be written such that members can understand it. Can they invest in bonds shares gilts etc with their surpluses? .
I have a feeling the trust system was never designed for Premier league clubs. Swansea may have broken the glass ceiling. Investment is not required for clubs that do not grow like Exeter city.
Things always need to be questioned.
How much personal investment did Jenkins etc put in after they took over until they left?
Nearest thousand will do.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:28 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1
Chief tells me the Trust have severe restriction on investing in stocks and shares and bonds to protect their asset / cash against inflation. So it is the governments fault then? Or is Chief just wrong.? Inflation has been low. Not anymore people need to act.
Can you enlighten us on what they can invest in to protect they holding against inflation?.
The Trust have been getting 0.15% interest of £880,000. If it cannot do better than this it should shut itself down. Is it a service for the interests of the banking sector?. The Government supporting the banking sector.?
The model terms are written in legalise, cross referencing another document. I have recommended professional business advice to determine what they can and cannot do and publish the report for all to see. The report should be written such that members can understand it. Can they invest in bonds shares gilts etc with their surpluses? .
I have a feeling the trust system was never designed for Premier league clubs. Swansea may have broken the glass ceiling. Investment is not required for clubs that do not grow like Exeter city.
Things always need to be questioned.
I'm not going to answer questions that you have had answers to many times in this and many many other threads. My point in my previous post was to clarify that when the Trust was set up it wasn't just i on an ad hoc basis but there was a structure to follow to become a society.
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:42 - Feb 10 with 408 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:20 - Feb 10 by Dr_Parnassus
Haven’t we been through this already?
Any minority shareholder with 25.1% of the business can veto special resolutions like share issues, and this dilution, should they choose.
From what I understand they are going to Court to get "Protection against dilution" in some sort of out of court deal perhaps? They wish to be given £1.3m worth of shares to get 25.1% of the holding presumably.?
After that point to retain 25.1% they block all new investment in the club or else are given 25.1% of all new investment given. Is that right?.
So on top of the £1,3m they want to be gifted 25.1% of the £13m Convertible loan note. (another £3.263 million of shares } as 'protection'.
Simpler to just give them a veto for whatever holding they have. But why? You called them 'inept' and work at crawling pace. Nothing would get done.
Wise sage since Toshack era
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:43 - Feb 10 with 404 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:28 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1
Chief tells me the Trust have severe restriction on investing in stocks and shares and bonds to protect their asset / cash against inflation. So it is the governments fault then? Or is Chief just wrong.? Inflation has been low. Not anymore people need to act.
Can you enlighten us on what they can invest in to protect they holding against inflation?.
The Trust have been getting 0.15% interest of £880,000. If it cannot do better than this it should shut itself down. Is it a service for the interests of the banking sector?. The Government supporting the banking sector.?
The model terms are written in legalise, cross referencing another document. I have recommended professional business advice to determine what they can and cannot do and publish the report for all to see. The report should be written such that members can understand it. Can they invest in bonds shares gilts etc with their surpluses? .
I have a feeling the trust system was never designed for Premier league clubs. Swansea may have broken the glass ceiling. Investment is not required for clubs that do not grow like Exeter city.
Things always need to be questioned.
You tell me, you think you know better than the rest of the forum who all seem to take the opposite view to your ridiculous trust and case biased views. You tell me if I'm wrong.
You still cannot grasp the basic concept though. They are a supporters trust. Whether they can combat the effects of inflation (they can in my opinion under the right circumstances) is completely irrelevant. They aren't an investment venture arm for the club.
Things can get questioned. But do they need to be continuously repeated when you've been given the answers ad nauseum? No.
Why should the trust release documents for all to see? As a non member you have no right to see anything involving their own personal funds.
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:37 - Feb 10 by 3swan
I'm not going to answer questions that you have had answers to many times in this and many many other threads. My point in my previous post was to clarify that when the Trust was set up it wasn't just i on an ad hoc basis but there was a structure to follow to become a society.
No have not had answers. How do the Trust protect themselves from devaluation by inflation?. The answer seems to be they do not. I have suggested using a consultant to find out for sure.
The Trust can make money and grow in the club so why go to court to get the money out to not grow? The moment the cash in they start losing.
Wise sage since Toshack era
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:48 - Feb 10 with 398 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:42 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1
From what I understand they are going to Court to get "Protection against dilution" in some sort of out of court deal perhaps? They wish to be given £1.3m worth of shares to get 25.1% of the holding presumably.?
After that point to retain 25.1% they block all new investment in the club or else are given 25.1% of all new investment given. Is that right?.
So on top of the £1,3m they want to be gifted 25.1% of the £13m Convertible loan note. (another £3.263 million of shares } as 'protection'.
Simpler to just give them a veto for whatever holding they have. But why? You called them 'inept' and work at crawling pace. Nothing would get done.
Not necessarily block it, they may think it is good for the club and sanction and apportion some investment themselves to retain their stake.
I call the Trust operating on these budgets inept yes, they are retired school teachers and insurance brokers. With the full amount for their shares they can employ professionals when it’s time to enter the club again and with a large pot of money behind them.
The owners didn’t invest anything after takeover right the way through to 8th in the Premier League. The need for investment is a myth and ends up in harm too, like Cardiff who were hampered for years with the Langston debt after the owner stated he would turn it to equity and changed his mind. It nearly took them under.
I would much prefer to cut our cloth accordingly like we have for the last 20 years.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:43 - Feb 10 by Chief
You tell me, you think you know better than the rest of the forum who all seem to take the opposite view to your ridiculous trust and case biased views. You tell me if I'm wrong.
You still cannot grasp the basic concept though. They are a supporters trust. Whether they can combat the effects of inflation (they can in my opinion under the right circumstances) is completely irrelevant. They aren't an investment venture arm for the club.
Things can get questioned. But do they need to be continuously repeated when you've been given the answers ad nauseum? No.
Why should the trust release documents for all to see? As a non member you have no right to see anything involving their own personal funds.
I am a fan of Swansea city. If you read their document they claim to represent all fans f Swansea city not just members.
Wise sage since Toshack era
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:50 - Feb 10 with 396 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:42 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1
From what I understand they are going to Court to get "Protection against dilution" in some sort of out of court deal perhaps? They wish to be given £1.3m worth of shares to get 25.1% of the holding presumably.?
After that point to retain 25.1% they block all new investment in the club or else are given 25.1% of all new investment given. Is that right?.
So on top of the £1,3m they want to be gifted 25.1% of the £13m Convertible loan note. (another £3.263 million of shares } as 'protection'.
Simpler to just give them a veto for whatever holding they have. But why? You called them 'inept' and work at crawling pace. Nothing would get done.
What makes you think they are going to court to get protection against dilution? I've not seen that suggested as a likely outcome from anywhere.
Who knows Resloven, it depends entirely on the circumstances of the investment at that particular time. Who knows Resloven maybe a deal can be worked that investment can carry on but the trust is exempt from dilution.
Where have they said they want to be 'gifted' any of the CLN!?
What you mean nothing would get done? There'd be a deadline for such decisions to be made surely? Remember the Americans are the ones who are slow in providing information on the CLN, and are yet to re-engage over a year on from promising to do so. In that light I don't think the Americans can throw stones at anyone.
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:47 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1
No have not had answers. How do the Trust protect themselves from devaluation by inflation?. The answer seems to be they do not. I have suggested using a consultant to find out for sure.
The Trust can make money and grow in the club so why go to court to get the money out to not grow? The moment the cash in they start losing.
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:47 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1
No have not had answers. How do the Trust protect themselves from devaluation by inflation?. The answer seems to be they do not. I have suggested using a consultant to find out for sure.
The Trust can make money and grow in the club so why go to court to get the money out to not grow? The moment the cash in they start losing.
You have had the answers from people on a football forum. The concise answers can only come from the Trust board. Yet you continue to constantly ask the same questions even in non relevant threads.
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:54 - Feb 10 with 392 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:49 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1
I am a fan of Swansea city. If you read their document they claim to represent all fans f Swansea city not just members.
Haha brilliant. Bad mouth them at every single juncture and expect them provide you (and only you) with irrelevant information because you're having a hissy fit about the court case.
{Legal action is always a last resort and is only happening now due to the inability to agree a solution to the issues that have arisen from the 2016 sale. We should remember two things, a) we had agreed a deal in 2017 that would have resolved the issue, however the majority owners walked away from that agreement and b) as a result of the 2016 sale, our shareholding is not sufficiently protected in the current structure of the club, so the status quo is not tenable in our eyes. We remain very open to a negotiated settlement and one of the aims of the Trust is always to retain a shareholding in our club, however that requires both parties to agree. We do agree that if this goes to court, the likely award from a successful verdict would be the full purchase of the Trust’s shares.}
What does this mean ? { b) as a result of the 2016 sale, our shareholding is not sufficiently protected in the current structure of the club, so the status quo is not tenable in our eyes.}
Dr P says they want 25.1% shares to give them a veto. They cannot afford it. (+£1.3m) That is life. What happen when there is investment (£13m) ? They still hold 25.1%? (+£3.24m) Perhaps they just want a veto and do not care about dilution?? If they have a veto they can block investment and dilution. Completely unreasonable as far as i can see.
Wise sage since Toshack era
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 23:32 - Feb 10 with 336 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 23:27 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1
The Trust said this in the last AGM/ Brackets { }
{Legal action is always a last resort and is only happening now due to the inability to agree a solution to the issues that have arisen from the 2016 sale. We should remember two things, a) we had agreed a deal in 2017 that would have resolved the issue, however the majority owners walked away from that agreement and b) as a result of the 2016 sale, our shareholding is not sufficiently protected in the current structure of the club, so the status quo is not tenable in our eyes. We remain very open to a negotiated settlement and one of the aims of the Trust is always to retain a shareholding in our club, however that requires both parties to agree. We do agree that if this goes to court, the likely award from a successful verdict would be the full purchase of the Trust’s shares.}
What does this mean ? { b) as a result of the 2016 sale, our shareholding is not sufficiently protected in the current structure of the club, so the status quo is not tenable in our eyes.}
Dr P says they want 25.1% shares to give them a veto. They cannot afford it. (+£1.3m) That is life. What happen when there is investment (£13m) ? They still hold 25.1%? (+£3.24m) Perhaps they just want a veto and do not care about dilution?? If they have a veto they can block investment and dilution. Completely unreasonable as far as i can see.
It means exactly what it says. With the trust on 21% and the club now being owned by 1 other big block because the sellouts still involved sold out their voting rights, the trust have no say in whether dilution gets sanctioned. Is that particularly difficult to understand?
Yes the trust are fully aware that getting to 25% isn't going to happen. That's why they've chosen to pursue the option of potentially selling their shares instead. Is that particularly difficult to understand?
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