| Barrow (A) Match Thread 13:51 - Dec 30 with 18722 views | HullDale |
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| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 09:13 - Jan 3 with 4028 views | Hopwoodblue |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 07:20 - Jan 3 by TalkingSutty |
His comments after the defending at Doncaster worked though because they performed much better yesterday and did the basics after a shaky first five minutes. Bentley should have sent EEL out to do the post match interview, let him explain why so called professional footballers can defend so poorly . You can go through the squad, it's not just defenders. We also have midfield players who are constantly easily dispossessed because they are slow in getting rid of the ball and their opponents are quicker in thought and action, that happened to Keoghane twice yesterday when he thought he had all the time in the world. The fact we didn't have one shot on target or even create one chance throughout the game is also embarrassing and just underlines how poor these players are, Bentley and his coaching staff need calling out for that also, no excuse for it over 94 minutes of football. The whole team lacks urgency and leadership. [Post edited 3 Jan 2023 7:46]
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I think the club as a whole lacks a bit of leadership at the moment.
I’m not being ungrateful for what the BOD have done but that’s just my opinion.
It has to start at the very top.
The whole club needs to wake up and realise what a mess we are in.
I’d get the whole lot in, Office staff, players, management and lay it on the line as to just what’s at stake here and if anyone doesn’t fancy it they can pack their kit, empty their desk and f@@k off right now !!! We need people who are going to dig deep, work late, train hard, leave everything out there and be able to look supporters in the eye and say I’ve done my very best for Rochdale AFC. If we go down then fair enough we’ve give it our best.
That’s just my opinion. |  |
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| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 09:33 - Jan 3 with 3944 views | nordenblue |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 06:48 - Jan 3 by pioneer |
I am concerned the manager may have ‘lost the room’ with his comments, particularly after the Doncaster game. In this day and age it probably isnt helpful saying in media interviews the things he said about comparing with the games his 11 year old plays in.
By all means singe the paint on the dressing room wall but dont embarrass your players in public….you have nothing to gain.
It also doesnt help in signing other players…if players have options they are unlikey to prefer the manager who does this, other things equal.
I love his passion but Id like him to channel that in a way that avoids embarrassing colleagues in public. |
Whilst his colleagues are clearly more than happy to embarrass him in public continually, I don't blame him one bit for ripping into them, most of them need it and if it's not what they want or expect to hear professional sport might not be for them.
Players, backroom staff,management etc careers and livelihoods are all on the line here, if some folk showed the passion and drive JB clearly has we wouldn't be in half the mess we currently are. |  | | |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 09:37 - Jan 3 with 3943 views | James1980 |
James's bizarre theory time (stop groaning you lot) Is there an element of complacency within the squad because we are not more points from safety? | |
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| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 09:41 - Jan 3 with 3928 views | TalkingSutty |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 09:13 - Jan 3 by Hopwoodblue |
I think the club as a whole lacks a bit of leadership at the moment.
I’m not being ungrateful for what the BOD have done but that’s just my opinion.
It has to start at the very top.
The whole club needs to wake up and realise what a mess we are in.
I’d get the whole lot in, Office staff, players, management and lay it on the line as to just what’s at stake here and if anyone doesn’t fancy it they can pack their kit, empty their desk and f@@k off right now !!! We need people who are going to dig deep, work late, train hard, leave everything out there and be able to look supporters in the eye and say I’ve done my very best for Rochdale AFC. If we go down then fair enough we’ve give it our best.
That’s just my opinion. |
Good post. I've never been one for the Director of football role but i think in hindsight we could have done with somebody similar to David Flitcroft at Port Vale who has plenty of contacts and experience when it comes to identifying and attracting players to the club, somebody who can also advise a very inexperienced boardroom on football related issues when it comes to not only player but managerial recruitment etc, a proper football person.I'm sure George Delves is good at his job but as a CEO does he have the knowledge and personality to provide an effective link between those in the boardroom and Jim Bentley. Maybe he does, i don't know. |  | | |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 09:50 - Jan 3 with 3896 views | Dalenet |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 09:37 - Jan 3 by James1980 |
James's bizarre theory time (stop groaning you lot) Is there an element of complacency within the squad because we are not more points from safety? |
I don't understand your comment James. But complacency is dangerous. Remember when BBM claimed that he never looked at the table. And then we got relegated. Being a professional footballer at our level is a real privilege. They earn almost the same as a train driver in the UK (our train drivers are the highest opaid in the world by the way) and have more time on their hands than most would know what to do with. Some brutal truths need to be told right now. Of course they may well be prepared to learn how to drive a train as they won't be earning half what they do now if we go down. | | | |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 10:30 - Jan 3 with 3806 views | James1980 |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 09:50 - Jan 3 by Dalenet |
I don't understand your comment James. But complacency is dangerous. Remember when BBM claimed that he never looked at the table. And then we got relegated. Being a professional footballer at our level is a real privilege. They earn almost the same as a train driver in the UK (our train drivers are the highest opaid in the world by the way) and have more time on their hands than most would know what to do with. Some brutal truths need to be told right now. Of course they may well be prepared to learn how to drive a train as they won't be earning half what they do now if we go down. |
Just that only being 3 points off the team in 22nd with a better goal difference and a game in hand with plenty of games to go are there players with the attitude of no need to be too concerned there's plenty of time to put it right. | |
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| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 10:45 - Jan 3 with 3756 views | Hopwoodblue |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 10:30 - Jan 3 by James1980 |
Just that only being 3 points off the team in 22nd with a better goal difference and a game in hand with plenty of games to go are there players with the attitude of no need to be too concerned there's plenty of time to put it right. |
That attitude should see us playing non league football next season.
Without a doubt. | |
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| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 12:22 - Jan 3 with 3580 views | pioneer |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 09:33 - Jan 3 by nordenblue |
Whilst his colleagues are clearly more than happy to embarrass him in public continually, I don't blame him one bit for ripping into them, most of them need it and if it's not what they want or expect to hear professional sport might not be for them.
Players, backroom staff,management etc careers and livelihoods are all on the line here, if some folk showed the passion and drive JB clearly has we wouldn't be in half the mess we currently are. |
The equivalent on the players side would be to throw the manager, coaches or board under the bus with belittling comments like Ronaldo did at OT.
None of the players have questioned in public his team selections, tactics, substitutions etc.
Getting out of this mess will require a ‘one rochdale’ approach where we have each others backs.
Are you more likely to give it your all when the manager is comparing you to 12 year olds? | | | |
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| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 12:41 - Jan 3 with 3524 views | TVOS1907 |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 12:22 - Jan 3 by pioneer |
The equivalent on the players side would be to throw the manager, coaches or board under the bus with belittling comments like Ronaldo did at OT.
None of the players have questioned in public his team selections, tactics, substitutions etc.
Getting out of this mess will require a ‘one rochdale’ approach where we have each others backs.
Are you more likely to give it your all when the manager is comparing you to 12 year olds? |
Given the big defensive improvement yesterday, it must have had some effect. |  |
| If you don't know why your posts keep getting downvoted, there's no hope for you. |
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| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 13:43 - Jan 3 with 3397 views | foreverhopefulDale |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 09:50 - Jan 3 by Dalenet |
I don't understand your comment James. But complacency is dangerous. Remember when BBM claimed that he never looked at the table. And then we got relegated. Being a professional footballer at our level is a real privilege. They earn almost the same as a train driver in the UK (our train drivers are the highest opaid in the world by the way) and have more time on their hands than most would know what to do with. Some brutal truths need to be told right now. Of course they may well be prepared to learn how to drive a train as they won't be earning half what they do now if we go down. |
How much do you believe train drivers earn? How much is the average pay of a League two player ?
Here recruitment experts Reed answer the question, regards Train Driving, though the more well paid rely on overtime payments to achieve those amounts.
https://www.reed.com/articles/train-driver-salary-benefits [Post edited 3 Jan 2023 13:47]
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| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 14:26 - Jan 3 with 3263 views | 442Dale |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 13:43 - Jan 3 by foreverhopefulDale |
How much do you believe train drivers earn? How much is the average pay of a League two player ?
Here recruitment experts Reed answer the question, regards Train Driving, though the more well paid rely on overtime payments to achieve those amounts.
https://www.reed.com/articles/train-driver-salary-benefits [Post edited 3 Jan 2023 13:47]
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Not sure why train drivers were used as a comparison in the first place! And if ours are indeed the highest paid in the world, then looking at those figures in the link, they’re seriously underpaid elsewhere.
Can anyone with better understanding of the accounts work out what we pay on player’s wages? |  |
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| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 14:36 - Jan 3 with 3233 views | scooby |
in the last accounts it states: employee staff costs of £3.2m (2020: £3.4m).
no other breakdown provided but i only glanced through it. | | | |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 14:59 - Jan 3 with 3176 views | foreverhopefulDale |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 14:26 - Jan 3 by 442Dale |
Not sure why train drivers were used as a comparison in the first place! And if ours are indeed the highest paid in the world, then looking at those figures in the link, they’re seriously underpaid elsewhere.
Can anyone with better understanding of the accounts work out what we pay on player’s wages? |
You are right, about bringing train drivers into the equation, and about their comparative pay. They get a fair wage for the responsibility of their job. Footballers are on decent money, and I would bet most are paid better than the average fan who pays to watch them. Indeed they are lucky. | |
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| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 16:09 - Jan 3 with 2977 views | James1980 |
Re train drivers salary (I'm not one) It depends on which Train operating company (TOC) they work for.
Agree that complacency will lead to losing our football league status. It certainly led to us losing our league one status with our complacent manager of our last season there not looking at the league table. | |
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| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 17:46 - Jan 3 with 2822 views | nordenblue |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 12:22 - Jan 3 by pioneer |
The equivalent on the players side would be to throw the manager, coaches or board under the bus with belittling comments like Ronaldo did at OT.
None of the players have questioned in public his team selections, tactics, substitutions etc.
Getting out of this mess will require a ‘one rochdale’ approach where we have each others backs.
Are you more likely to give it your all when the manager is comparing you to 12 year olds? |
No the equivalent from the players side to throwing him under a bus is not listening or following school boy level instructions when crossing the white line,not chasing or giving minimal effort, leading to plummeting down a league table...... ring any bells? | | | |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 18:15 - Jan 3 with 2741 views | BillyRudd |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 12:22 - Jan 3 by pioneer |
The equivalent on the players side would be to throw the manager, coaches or board under the bus with belittling comments like Ronaldo did at OT.
None of the players have questioned in public his team selections, tactics, substitutions etc.
Getting out of this mess will require a ‘one rochdale’ approach where we have each others backs.
Are you more likely to give it your all when the manager is comparing you to 12 year olds? |
There is no equivalence here. Players are,nt paid to have opinions, they are there to do the managers bidding to the best of their ability. Just like Bentley ultimately has to do the boards bidding.
The notion that this lot have earned any respect worthy of having their opinions even listened to is frankly risable.
There are some players currently wearing the shirt that if compared to 12 year olds playing with pride and enthusiasm and workrate, I would take as an insult to 12 year olds.
Bentley is a bigger man than me because I would,nt have been able to shake Rodneys hand when he was substituted at Barrow.
"One Rochdale" don,t make me laugh.
And to think there were some on here that used to accuse a great club servant like Matty Done of stealing a living. | | | |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 19:48 - Jan 3 with 2539 views | 442Dale |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 14:36 - Jan 3 by scooby |
in the last accounts it states: employee staff costs of £3.2m (2020: £3.4m).
no other breakdown provided but i only glanced through it. |
Cheers. So, as an example only, say £2m of that goes on the first team playing squad, 22 players would be an average of 90k each a year, £1750 a week.
With all the figures we’ve had around the income/costs of running the club, it would be good to know what roughly the playing budget has been year on year. There could also be a comparative divisional average as well. There’s little doubt we had one of the lowest budgets in L1 during 14/15, 15/16, 16/17 and yet we still overachieved. Just how much less was our playing budget then?
Giving fans a detailed understanding of this makes it easier to appreciate why investment is needed to compete on the pitch. Has anything changed in the last five years that means a side with a budget is X percentage of those spending the most on players can no longer do ok on the pitch. Because we have before. | |
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| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 21:30 - Jan 3 with 2413 views | 49thseason |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 19:48 - Jan 3 by 442Dale |
Cheers. So, as an example only, say £2m of that goes on the first team playing squad, 22 players would be an average of 90k each a year, £1750 a week.
With all the figures we’ve had around the income/costs of running the club, it would be good to know what roughly the playing budget has been year on year. There could also be a comparative divisional average as well. There’s little doubt we had one of the lowest budgets in L1 during 14/15, 15/16, 16/17 and yet we still overachieved. Just how much less was our playing budget then?
Giving fans a detailed understanding of this makes it easier to appreciate why investment is needed to compete on the pitch. Has anything changed in the last five years that means a side with a budget is X percentage of those spending the most on players can no longer do ok on the pitch. Because we have before. |
I think it has been a slow erosion of buying power, with clubs above and below us getting people with money to back them whilst we became ever more dependent on a player sale or a cup run to balance the books, Ultimately there are more clubs with stronger balance sheets than ours that have overtaken us in terms of what they can afford to pay and prices and wages have gone up. See Fleetwood and Accrington for details, once they used to be a guaranteed 3, 4 or more points per season, now they have investors and have marched way beyond us.
The notion that you can sell your best players simply does not stack up if you can't replace them like for like, or better, it just weakens the team and then you don't win the cup games. Once that notion took hold, all the other fundraising ideas went out of the window, Gold Bond, Christmas raffle etc. why bother when you have a Hogan, Matheson or Adshead coming through the ranks, until you haven't of course? Season tickets got cheaper but the fanbase hasn't really changed in numbers so income has fallen, we have also lost some of the bigger L1 attendances thanks to the decline of the team. It really is a slippery slope once you start to slide and just hoping that next season will bring a better cup run doesn't stop the descent. We need 1-2000 more bums on seats, every game, a lottery pulling in 3,4,500K a year, more sponsors, a thriving retail section, busy bars and venues and someone capable of adding shed loads of money too, then you get the exponential growth, always assuming of course the product on the pitch improves too. Once you are financially able to say "no" to the predators wanting your players on the cheap, your team thrives, people want to watch and be involved, everything gets easier. |  | | |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 21:46 - Jan 3 with 2351 views | 442Dale |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 21:30 - Jan 3 by 49thseason |
I think it has been a slow erosion of buying power, with clubs above and below us getting people with money to back them whilst we became ever more dependent on a player sale or a cup run to balance the books, Ultimately there are more clubs with stronger balance sheets than ours that have overtaken us in terms of what they can afford to pay and prices and wages have gone up. See Fleetwood and Accrington for details, once they used to be a guaranteed 3, 4 or more points per season, now they have investors and have marched way beyond us.
The notion that you can sell your best players simply does not stack up if you can't replace them like for like, or better, it just weakens the team and then you don't win the cup games. Once that notion took hold, all the other fundraising ideas went out of the window, Gold Bond, Christmas raffle etc. why bother when you have a Hogan, Matheson or Adshead coming through the ranks, until you haven't of course? Season tickets got cheaper but the fanbase hasn't really changed in numbers so income has fallen, we have also lost some of the bigger L1 attendances thanks to the decline of the team. It really is a slippery slope once you start to slide and just hoping that next season will bring a better cup run doesn't stop the descent. We need 1-2000 more bums on seats, every game, a lottery pulling in 3,4,500K a year, more sponsors, a thriving retail section, busy bars and venues and someone capable of adding shed loads of money too, then you get the exponential growth, always assuming of course the product on the pitch improves too. Once you are financially able to say "no" to the predators wanting your players on the cheap, your team thrives, people want to watch and be involved, everything gets easier. |
Taking that all on board, our performances on the pitch started going wrong after the budget was increased in 2017. For example, w e consistently did as well or better than Fleetwood until the last five years (they actually finished in the play-offs that season we should have made them), and they had financial backing throughout that time that meant they could spend more on players should they choose to. Accrington: Yes, Holt has backed them - especially with the changes made off the pitch. But what is their playing budget?
Evidenced based opinion is required and until the figures are produced, which should be possible, it’s impossible to say whether it’s a series of poor decisions rather than player budgets alone that leave us where we are now - including those factors which you rightly point out. Some of which were mistakes being made right back to when we started to do well and have continued ever since. The culture off the pitch has seen no visible change. [Post edited 3 Jan 2023 21:51]
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| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 21:51 - Jan 3 with 2335 views | James1980 |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 21:46 - Jan 3 by 442Dale |
Taking that all on board, our performances on the pitch started going wrong after the budget was increased in 2017. For example, w e consistently did as well or better than Fleetwood until the last five years (they actually finished in the play-offs that season we should have made them), and they had financial backing throughout that time that meant they could spend more on players should they choose to. Accrington: Yes, Holt has backed them - especially with the changes made off the pitch. But what is their playing budget?
Evidenced based opinion is required and until the figures are produced, which should be possible, it’s impossible to say whether it’s a series of poor decisions rather than player budgets alone that leave us where we are now - including those factors which you rightly point out. Some of which were mistakes being made right back to when we started to do well and have continued ever since. The culture off the pitch has seen no visible change. [Post edited 3 Jan 2023 21:51]
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Can this be extrapolated to lower leagues? | |
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| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 21:56 - Jan 3 with 2318 views | fourfourtwo |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 21:46 - Jan 3 by 442Dale |
Taking that all on board, our performances on the pitch started going wrong after the budget was increased in 2017. For example, w e consistently did as well or better than Fleetwood until the last five years (they actually finished in the play-offs that season we should have made them), and they had financial backing throughout that time that meant they could spend more on players should they choose to. Accrington: Yes, Holt has backed them - especially with the changes made off the pitch. But what is their playing budget?
Evidenced based opinion is required and until the figures are produced, which should be possible, it’s impossible to say whether it’s a series of poor decisions rather than player budgets alone that leave us where we are now - including those factors which you rightly point out. Some of which were mistakes being made right back to when we started to do well and have continued ever since. The culture off the pitch has seen no visible change. [Post edited 3 Jan 2023 21:51]
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I think the top and bottom of it is that you live and die by your signings.
Some of this tripe we’ve got on the books are going to be on relatively similar wages (pre-inflation) to some of the best players in our history.
For the Ball, Diagouraga & EEL generation, we once had Vincenti, Cavanagh & Eastham. I doubt any of the later three were on big money when you consider where they were signed from, but they were a completely different calibre of player, yet technically from the same standard or stock pool.
The issue is Robbie Stockdale has absolutely destroyed our first team by signing the worst squad in the history of the club. I know people don’t want to talk about Stockdale and dig up the past, but ultimately he is going to do more damage to the club than even Bottomley did. | | | |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 21:58 - Jan 3 with 2315 views | James1980 |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 21:56 - Jan 3 by fourfourtwo |
I think the top and bottom of it is that you live and die by your signings.
Some of this tripe we’ve got on the books are going to be on relatively similar wages (pre-inflation) to some of the best players in our history.
For the Ball, Diagouraga & EEL generation, we once had Vincenti, Cavanagh & Eastham. I doubt any of the later three were on big money when you consider where they were signed from, but they were a completely different calibre of player, yet technically from the same standard or stock pool.
The issue is Robbie Stockdale has absolutely destroyed our first team by signing the worst squad in the history of the club. I know people don’t want to talk about Stockdale and dig up the past, but ultimately he is going to do more damage to the club than even Bottomley did. |
Poorly advised? | |
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| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 21:59 - Jan 3 with 2306 views | 442Dale |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 21:51 - Jan 3 by James1980 |
Can this be extrapolated to lower leagues? |
Yes. We’ve shown that to be true. It’s the equivalent of bringing in Le Fondre, Murray, Dawson. Then moving them on before bringing in O’Grady, Done and Hogan and Done again. Then ensuring that youth is given a chance when it’s good enough.
Irrespective of what may have been said, we had a model that did work. Unfortunately the infrastructure around it wasn’t good enough to deal with the years when those players weren’t being developed/sold on. | |
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| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 22:05 - Jan 3 with 2274 views | James1980 |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 21:59 - Jan 3 by 442Dale |
Yes. We’ve shown that to be true. It’s the equivalent of bringing in Le Fondre, Murray, Dawson. Then moving them on before bringing in O’Grady, Done and Hogan and Done again. Then ensuring that youth is given a chance when it’s good enough.
Irrespective of what may have been said, we had a model that did work. Unfortunately the infrastructure around it wasn’t good enough to deal with the years when those players weren’t being developed/sold on. |
Hopefully EBJ can find some hidden gems | |
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| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 22:06 - Jan 3 with 2263 views | TVOS1907 |
| Barrow (A) Match Thread on 21:51 - Jan 3 by James1980 |
Can this be extrapolated to lower leagues? |
Yes.
Some of our most successful strikers (Holt, Lambert, Murray) cost less in terms of their pounds per goal than the likes of Les Lawrence and Jon Shaw. | |
| If you don't know why your posts keep getting downvoted, there's no hope for you. |
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