| Injuries 20:14 - Oct 10 with 36852 views | monners1969 |
2 questions
How many fit players do we have?
Do I need to bring my boots and deep heat on Wednesday ? |  | | |  |
| Injuries on 12:44 - Oct 22 with 1487 views | TacticalR |
| Injuries on 11:47 - Oct 22 by Hunterhoop |
Jesus, I’ve become Ingham. Apologies all. |
When you asked: "what are we here for?" I was thinking more Sartre or Camus. Perhaps someone should raise this question with Stéphan in his next interview. |  |
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| Injuries on 12:49 - Oct 22 with 1426 views | Mick_S |
| Injuries on 11:47 - Oct 22 by Hunterhoop |
Jesus, I’ve become Ingham. Apologies all. |
Ya mo be there.
☺️ |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Injuries on 13:32 - Oct 22 with 1239 views | nix |
I’m not going to answer all your points because they are a few I agree with or we’ve done to death but you haven’t answered in full the one question I asked. Who do you think we should definitely be outperforming (apart from Swansea and WBA). WBA have spent €12 million, €14 million and €€17 million across the last three seasons which somewhat dwarves what we’ve spent. Plus their wages are also considerably more - our wage bill in the last published accounts was 73% of turnover and theirs was 122% of turnover. Meanwhile Swansea have spent €27 million, €17 million and €9 million across the same period. Again you’d expect them to have a better squad.
And I don’t think you can compare what Warbs was spending to what we’re spending now. My whole point was that EVERYONE is spending more now. So if you’re spending more now than then then you’re just standing still.
I’m not saying we have no chance of finishing above those teams. But we would be over performing based on transfer spend in the past three years compared to other clubs not compared to what happened five or six years ago which is a different scenario. |  | | |
| Injuries on 14:06 - Oct 22 with 1109 views | Hunterhoop |
| Injuries on 13:32 - Oct 22 by nix |
I’m not going to answer all your points because they are a few I agree with or we’ve done to death but you haven’t answered in full the one question I asked. Who do you think we should definitely be outperforming (apart from Swansea and WBA). WBA have spent €12 million, €14 million and €€17 million across the last three seasons which somewhat dwarves what we’ve spent. Plus their wages are also considerably more - our wage bill in the last published accounts was 73% of turnover and theirs was 122% of turnover. Meanwhile Swansea have spent €27 million, €17 million and €9 million across the same period. Again you’d expect them to have a better squad.
And I don’t think you can compare what Warbs was spending to what we’re spending now. My whole point was that EVERYONE is spending more now. So if you’re spending more now than then then you’re just standing still.
I’m not saying we have no chance of finishing above those teams. But we would be over performing based on transfer spend in the past three years compared to other clubs not compared to what happened five or six years ago which is a different scenario. |
Is that their net or gross spend?
Our net is £20m in 2.5 seasons. You have to compare net. But, the best run clubs in the best situations might have low net spend because they are doing such a good job developing players and selling them for lots of money. The whole comparison is utterly flawed as a way of assessing a club’s ability to compete.
It is far more nuanced assessing who should be competing near the top and who shouldn’t than just “who spent the most” as I have repeatedly tried to argue.
If you always come back to “but, no it isn’t” then we’re just going around in circles. [Post edited 22 Oct 14:07]
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| Injuries on 14:15 - Oct 22 with 1079 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
WOW amazing thread all the big guns are on here typing like mad its superb and who needs a midweek game when this is blowing up .
Seriously though thank Jesus we have no game until Saturday JS can put together some emergency game plan to keep us in it until we take over in the second half hopefully.
Injuries continue to cripple us whatever the reason and everytime I or someone comments we have 2 players for each spot the hammer of God falls shame really we have a good bunch this year |  | | |
| Injuries on 14:28 - Oct 22 with 1044 views | daveB |
| Injuries on 11:54 - Oct 22 by QPROslo |
Hopefully Varane will be Madsen's replacement Saturday in a midfield 3 with Edwards and Kamara. Thought he played quite well when he came on last game. |
I thought he did OK as well but it's a big drop from next big thing a 20million player in the making to on the bench behind a centre half playing in midfield. Hopefully he grabs the opportunity and shows what he can do.
It's the same theme but he's never looked right since the injury he got early last season. |  | | |
| Injuries on 14:36 - Oct 22 with 993 views | QPROslo |
| Injuries on 14:28 - Oct 22 by daveB |
I thought he did OK as well but it's a big drop from next big thing a 20million player in the making to on the bench behind a centre half playing in midfield. Hopefully he grabs the opportunity and shows what he can do.
It's the same theme but he's never looked right since the injury he got early last season. |
20 million for Varane? Can't believe anyone would be offering that unless it was Thai Baht, or even Norwegian Kroner. |  | | |
| Injuries on 15:34 - Oct 22 with 821 views | Hunterhoop |
| Injuries on 12:44 - Oct 22 by TacticalR |
When you asked: "what are we here for?" I was thinking more Sartre or Camus. Perhaps someone should raise this question with Stéphan in his next interview. |
Ha! Indeed. The way the last 11 years or so have gone, it was more Nietzsche and nihilism where my head was at! | | | |
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| Injuries on 16:01 - Oct 22 with 718 views | daveB |
| Injuries on 14:36 - Oct 22 by QPROslo |
20 million for Varane? Can't believe anyone would be offering that unless it was Thai Baht, or even Norwegian Kroner. |
That was the talk after his first season, we had a 20million on our hands if he carried on that way, not sure I ever believed that but it's been a big drop since then | | | |
| Injuries on 16:04 - Oct 22 with 709 views | Northernr |
Match preview's going to be a real treat this week innit  |  | | |
| Injuries on 16:13 - Oct 22 with 686 views | stevec |
| Injuries on 13:32 - Oct 22 by nix |
I’m not going to answer all your points because they are a few I agree with or we’ve done to death but you haven’t answered in full the one question I asked. Who do you think we should definitely be outperforming (apart from Swansea and WBA). WBA have spent €12 million, €14 million and €€17 million across the last three seasons which somewhat dwarves what we’ve spent. Plus their wages are also considerably more - our wage bill in the last published accounts was 73% of turnover and theirs was 122% of turnover. Meanwhile Swansea have spent €27 million, €17 million and €9 million across the same period. Again you’d expect them to have a better squad.
And I don’t think you can compare what Warbs was spending to what we’re spending now. My whole point was that EVERYONE is spending more now. So if you’re spending more now than then then you’re just standing still.
I’m not saying we have no chance of finishing above those teams. But we would be over performing based on transfer spend in the past three years compared to other clubs not compared to what happened five or six years ago which is a different scenario. |
I was surprised to see that our turnover was bigger than Swansea and only slightly less than WBA.
Under the new rules, the discrepancies you see on transfer spend should level out over the next 3-5 years between clubs like us and them.
The thing that handicaps us most is the size of our ground. A stadium that caters for another 10,000 fans would generate over £5 mill a year in ticket sales alone. Stadium size is a game changer but unfortunately it’s been a game we don’t want to play.
Until we do something about that we’ll be struggling to better ourselves. |  | | |
| Injuries on 16:16 - Oct 22 with 680 views | JustJules |
Just posted this on the West London Sport podcast site but worth repeating here...possibly.
Regarding the muscle injuries..I work occasionally in a bar here in Stockholm and in the early part of the year I got chatting to Lee Nobes (Liverpool's head of rehab physiotherapy). He popped in for a beer as he was accompanying Isak who was visiting family here. Lovely fella and was at City for 10 years before this job.
I put it to him about our glut of muscle injuries and he suggested it sounded like overtraining or the wrong exercises being performed.
Sounds a bit like "bloke down the pub said.." but it was interesting to me and would be interesting to know our routines. |  | | |
| Injuries on 17:20 - Oct 22 with 530 views | Hunterhoop |
| Injuries on 16:01 - Oct 22 by daveB |
That was the talk after his first season, we had a 20million on our hands if he carried on that way, not sure I ever believed that but it's been a big drop since then |
The hardest thing for club’s of our size and league position is selling players for big money. We’re always tempted to hang on for more money in a year’s time and better results on the pitch. Hardly ever works out like that. | | | |
| Injuries on 17:59 - Oct 22 with 425 views | daveB |
| Injuries on 17:20 - Oct 22 by Hunterhoop |
The hardest thing for club’s of our size and league position is selling players for big money. We’re always tempted to hang on for more money in a year’s time and better results on the pitch. Hardly ever works out like that. |
Was the same under Les, maybe waited a bit too long with some | | | |
| Injuries on 18:33 - Oct 22 with 331 views | nix |
| Injuries on 14:06 - Oct 22 by Hunterhoop |
Is that their net or gross spend?
Our net is £20m in 2.5 seasons. You have to compare net. But, the best run clubs in the best situations might have low net spend because they are doing such a good job developing players and selling them for lots of money. The whole comparison is utterly flawed as a way of assessing a club’s ability to compete.
It is far more nuanced assessing who should be competing near the top and who shouldn’t than just “who spent the most” as I have repeatedly tried to argue.
If you always come back to “but, no it isn’t” then we’re just going around in circles. [Post edited 22 Oct 14:07]
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No I don’t have to compare net. Because I’m not looking at how well the club is run in this particular thread or how many players have been sold for a profit which has then allowed the squad to improve over time. You’re answering the question you are interested in but I’m asking a different question.
My question is in terms of the quality of players I have broadly assessed by how much they cost or how much the salary is if they’re loan players (a crude measure but there is generally some kind of correlation) are we punching above our weight if we end up getting into the play offs? That’s my question. Not about how much profit we should have generated by now or whether we should be doing as well as previous managers. I know you’re very interested in that but it’s not what I’m asking. If you look at the net cost of transfers then you’re artificially deflating the value of those players and therefore the quality of the squad. And you’re looking at how the club is improving the squad over time, which is an interesting point but has been dealt with endlessly.
If you for example assess net transfers and a Premier relegation side has sold £100 million worth of players and only bought £80 million worth of players it would be ridiculous to argue that their team is less valuable and lesser quality than Portsmouth who’ve spent £10 million net. Not real figures but for illustration. | | | |
| Injuries on 18:39 - Oct 22 with 308 views | JamesB1979 |
| Injuries on 11:26 - Oct 22 by daveB |
Lets see where the recent pushes gets us as well. Could well end up the same again.
I can't see a massive difference to be honest of what we did under les and what we do now.
Under Les we signed young and sold for profit, Smithies, Freeman, Furlong, Eze, Bright, Manning etc We spent money we had brought in through sales which are not happening anymore. If Willocks hamstring hadn't exploded we could have sold hm in 2022 and reinvested again.
The current great hope for a big sale in Varane can't even get in the team anymore [Post edited 22 Oct 11:36]
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I do think things have changed but I’m not sure we’ll agree on that.
I’d say in Edwards and Burrell we have 2 players that I’m pretty confident will go for a lot of cash. Then players like Madsen, Poku, Cirkin, Lamptey, Kone, Vale all have potential to go for decent money if they continue to improve. But of course, it depends on whether we keep them fit.
I completely agree that injury situation is ridiculous. I’ve lost hope and faith that we can keep them fit. And not keeping them fit, impacts league position and amounts we can sell our players for. But I do think things have changed, squad age has done down and we have players on longer contracts. But it’s all meaningless if we can’t keep them fit. | | | |
| Injuries on 18:53 - Oct 22 with 248 views | connell10 |
| Injuries on 13:32 - Oct 22 by nix |
I’m not going to answer all your points because they are a few I agree with or we’ve done to death but you haven’t answered in full the one question I asked. Who do you think we should definitely be outperforming (apart from Swansea and WBA). WBA have spent €12 million, €14 million and €€17 million across the last three seasons which somewhat dwarves what we’ve spent. Plus their wages are also considerably more - our wage bill in the last published accounts was 73% of turnover and theirs was 122% of turnover. Meanwhile Swansea have spent €27 million, €17 million and €9 million across the same period. Again you’d expect them to have a better squad.
And I don’t think you can compare what Warbs was spending to what we’re spending now. My whole point was that EVERYONE is spending more now. So if you’re spending more now than then then you’re just standing still.
I’m not saying we have no chance of finishing above those teams. But we would be over performing based on transfer spend in the past three years compared to other clubs not compared to what happened five or six years ago which is a different scenario. |
So you agree that you need to spend money to get out of this league unless you get lucky , which means on both counts we are f ucked! |  |
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| Injuries on 18:54 - Oct 22 with 244 views | daveB |
| Injuries on 18:39 - Oct 22 by JamesB1979 |
I do think things have changed but I’m not sure we’ll agree on that.
I’d say in Edwards and Burrell we have 2 players that I’m pretty confident will go for a lot of cash. Then players like Madsen, Poku, Cirkin, Lamptey, Kone, Vale all have potential to go for decent money if they continue to improve. But of course, it depends on whether we keep them fit.
I completely agree that injury situation is ridiculous. I’ve lost hope and faith that we can keep them fit. And not keeping them fit, impacts league position and amounts we can sell our players for. But I do think things have changed, squad age has done down and we have players on longer contracts. But it’s all meaningless if we can’t keep them fit. |
I hope you are right. i just feel like I have been hearing the same stuff from the club for 11 years now, different voices but same messages spun in different ways. I'll believe it all when i see it
I couldn't see how if we didn't go up under Warbs that the club couldn't make a lot of money on likes of Dieng, Dickie, Willock, Chair etc and we know how that ended. I think we all expected to sell Richard Langley for loads many moons ago and he left for a few hundred grand. We didn't even get anything for a genius like Adel.
Edwards is the golden goose at the moment but who knows if we'll get a big profit for him, we did spend a lot on him and Burrell has looked good but missed half a season last year and that explosive pace does not seem to be there this season and he's of course out again. | | | |
| Injuries on 18:59 - Oct 22 with 228 views | lassel |
| Injuries on 20:18 - Oct 21 by numptydumpty |
Explain please ??
You are alluding to something without actually saying anything.
Can you describe what you know, as personally i am unaware. If you know something, please can you share the information you have. |
It wasn5 meant to be cryptic, the reason is discussed at length already by others - the clubs medical strategy is driven by someone completely unqualified for the role with a history of proven failure both in football and basketball. The players can’t stand him and some have invested in private medical teams and rehab protocols because they don’t trust him.
The reason they churn out Comical Ali style stats to justify his position are also well known. His role has long outgrown what he came in to do and is critical to shoring up CN’s own position which is less secure than you might think. The litany of injuries, the altercations with players, the sacking of club legends are just par for the course unfortunately. | | | |
| Injuries on 19:08 - Oct 22 with 204 views | connell10 |
| Injuries on 18:59 - Oct 22 by lassel |
It wasn5 meant to be cryptic, the reason is discussed at length already by others - the clubs medical strategy is driven by someone completely unqualified for the role with a history of proven failure both in football and basketball. The players can’t stand him and some have invested in private medical teams and rehab protocols because they don’t trust him.
The reason they churn out Comical Ali style stats to justify his position are also well known. His role has long outgrown what he came in to do and is critical to shoring up CN’s own position which is less secure than you might think. The litany of injuries, the altercations with players, the sacking of club legends are just par for the course unfortunately. |
But the buck stops with Nourry , so his job could be on the line also | |
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| Injuries on 19:09 - Oct 22 with 201 views | nix |
| Injuries on 18:54 - Oct 22 by daveB |
I hope you are right. i just feel like I have been hearing the same stuff from the club for 11 years now, different voices but same messages spun in different ways. I'll believe it all when i see it
I couldn't see how if we didn't go up under Warbs that the club couldn't make a lot of money on likes of Dieng, Dickie, Willock, Chair etc and we know how that ended. I think we all expected to sell Richard Langley for loads many moons ago and he left for a few hundred grand. We didn't even get anything for a genius like Adel.
Edwards is the golden goose at the moment but who knows if we'll get a big profit for him, we did spend a lot on him and Burrell has looked good but missed half a season last year and that explosive pace does not seem to be there this season and he's of course out again. |
It’s very frustrating with Burrell. Particularly as he doesn’t have a bad injury record as far as I know and looked so good for the first half of last season.
I’m not sure about Dieng as he hasn’t done very well after leaving us so maybe he had one good season? Dickie I heard fell out with someone in the club and wanted to go and had a terrible drop in form. Willock obviously was the hamstring injuries which was terribly unlucky just as he was starting to look like he’d be worth a lot of money.
It does seem harder for us to get big money for players than some other clubs manage. Edwards does look promising but then the sell on clause plus what we paid for him mean we’d have to get quite a lot before it looks like a decent profit. We’re cursed obviously. | | | |
| Injuries on 19:52 - Oct 22 with 98 views | Hunterhoop |
| Injuries on 18:33 - Oct 22 by nix |
No I don’t have to compare net. Because I’m not looking at how well the club is run in this particular thread or how many players have been sold for a profit which has then allowed the squad to improve over time. You’re answering the question you are interested in but I’m asking a different question.
My question is in terms of the quality of players I have broadly assessed by how much they cost or how much the salary is if they’re loan players (a crude measure but there is generally some kind of correlation) are we punching above our weight if we end up getting into the play offs? That’s my question. Not about how much profit we should have generated by now or whether we should be doing as well as previous managers. I know you’re very interested in that but it’s not what I’m asking. If you look at the net cost of transfers then you’re artificially deflating the value of those players and therefore the quality of the squad. And you’re looking at how the club is improving the squad over time, which is an interesting point but has been dealt with endlessly.
If you for example assess net transfers and a Premier relegation side has sold £100 million worth of players and only bought £80 million worth of players it would be ridiculous to argue that their team is less valuable and lesser quality than Portsmouth who’ve spent £10 million net. Not real figures but for illustration. |
I’ve said this for months and been super clear in my answer to your question. I’ve answered it many times before.
Top 8 - big success
Top 10 - Expectation
Top 12 - Acceptable
Bottom half - should be deemed a failure from the leadership (not necessarily Stephan if his hands have been tied with injuries) given all the context and investment which we’d done to the hilt.
I believe the squad can make top 8, should be top 10, probably will be top half.
If they aren’t I really don’t think there are many excuses for this leadership group. CN will have had money to spend, hasn’t had to sell any of his best players, been able to bring in his own head coach, his own staff, a structure of his own making, we’ve bombed out anyone he or BW didn’t like, his game model. He’ll have had 3 full seasons plus a season auditing the club and hiring people into it before that. When do you judge if not this season?
If we finish bottom half, do you agree that it would be a failure?
And as per my original post, injuries can’t be used as an excuse, not after 3 years. It’s part of the job. | | | |
| Injuries on 19:55 - Oct 22 with 85 views | Mick_S |
Lassel wrote:
“The players can’t stand him and some have invested in private medical teams and rehab protocols because they don’t trust him”.
Not a dig mate. And I know this going on and on at QPR. There’s no way of knowing; have the players seeking the above remained more available on match days?
Would be very interesting to know, but we never will. | |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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