| Who would you want? 18:12 - Aug 25 with 7386 views | NotEyreClue |
Realistically, who could we get/do you want for us to go for if we were to make one more 'big' signing?
I'll start...
Forte
lulz |  |
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| Who would you want? on 11:07 - Aug 27 with 1714 views | electricblue |
As somebody mentioned on another topic...Liam Dickenson.
I would take the gamble of on non contract term similar to putrill..
Make puterill a contract signing and bring in Dickenson nothing to lose on those terms providing he is will to do so...
If Dickenson did come i think its all down to fitness as he as missed a preseason so he could be weeks behind..
Im sure that i read some where that Dickenson was at Port Vale during preseason..
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| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Who would you want? on 11:47 - Aug 27 with 1679 views | fitzochris |
| Who would you want? on 11:07 - Aug 27 by electricblue |
As somebody mentioned on another topic...Liam Dickenson.
I would take the gamble of on non contract term similar to putrill..
Make puterill a contract signing and bring in Dickenson nothing to lose on those terms providing he is will to do so...
If Dickenson did come i think its all down to fitness as he as missed a preseason so he could be weeks behind..
Im sure that i read some where that Dickenson was at Port Vale during preseason..
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Dickinson is apparently looking for a wage that doesn't fit with our current structure. |  |
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| Who would you want? on 12:46 - Aug 27 with 1625 views | electricblue |
Well he will be on nothing at the moment as he is clubless....
So whats on offer and what you want are two different things at the end of day what you are offered is better than nowt.... | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Who would you want? on 13:02 - Aug 27 with 1606 views | pnc4eva1 |
| Who would you want? on 12:46 - Aug 27 by electricblue |
Well he will be on nothing at the moment as he is clubless....
So whats on offer and what you want are two different things at the end of day what you are offered is better than nowt.... |
Dickinson is a proven goal scorer decent player. However he hardly set the world on fire when he was here.
The forward line is ok at the moment to me it is the supply line that is causing the problems |  |
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| Who would you want? on 13:17 - Aug 27 with 1586 views | electricblue |
To coin a phrase...
Dale need a greedy barsteward up front..... | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Who would you want? on 16:42 - Aug 27 with 1514 views | sweetcorn |
heard down the grapevine akinfenwa could be available. Would definatley sign this BEAST to get his cannon Erect! |  |
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| Who would you want? on 16:53 - Aug 27 with 1492 views | fitzochris |
| Who would you want? on 16:42 - Aug 27 by sweetcorn |
heard down the grapevine akinfenwa could be available. Would definatley sign this BEAST to get his cannon Erect! |
He would be a cracking signing, given the way we've set out our stall at the moment. Although, given he was the division's top scorer last season and is playing in a better resourced side than ours, the inevitable question need to be asked: could we afford him?
EDIT TO ADD: Not sure if there was a whoosh in your post Sweetcorn : $ [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Who would you want? on 18:49 - Aug 27 with 1441 views | pl56 |
| Who would you want? on 16:18 - Aug 26 by SteTsGoldenBoot |
CD mentioned at the fans forum that last year we turned in a profit of £400K, of which some was invested into this years playing budget (say £200K).
The other 200K I would assume is (very wisely) being put aside to prop up the lower gates, that I certainly believe the club weren't expecting ( to the extent of a potential sub 2000 the second home league game of the season).
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So let me get this right , and I apologise if some of the accountancy takes a while to sink in , but here goes .
The 400k profit was as at May 2011 ? Since then we've had another season in Div 1 with the higher level league handout from TV/pools etc, plus we've had income from the sales of O'Grady and Dawson ? In addition there's been add ons from previous transfer dealings with other players ? Then there's another season of Div 1 attendances at Div 1 prices , including games vs Sheffield Wed/Utd , Huddersfield , Preston which I suspect led to a further slight increase on the promotion season ? Do we also get a parachute payment equivalent to at least a proportion of the league handout this season ?
Whilst I wholly support your argument that some should be held back to cover unplanned for losses this year due to reduced crowds , we're also now in the business , surely of paying Div 2 wages again , which should also offset some reduced income ?
Overall , I have seen little evidence of any real investment of the profits accrued over the past 2/3 years in enhancing squad quality , even accepting that the signing of 10 new players this close season will have been costly despite their largely free transfer status . |  | | |
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| Who would you want? on 19:46 - Aug 27 with 1385 views | SteTsGoldenBoot |
| Who would you want? on 18:49 - Aug 27 by pl56 |
So let me get this right , and I apologise if some of the accountancy takes a while to sink in , but here goes .
The 400k profit was as at May 2011 ? Since then we've had another season in Div 1 with the higher level league handout from TV/pools etc, plus we've had income from the sales of O'Grady and Dawson ? In addition there's been add ons from previous transfer dealings with other players ? Then there's another season of Div 1 attendances at Div 1 prices , including games vs Sheffield Wed/Utd , Huddersfield , Preston which I suspect led to a further slight increase on the promotion season ? Do we also get a parachute payment equivalent to at least a proportion of the league handout this season ?
Whilst I wholly support your argument that some should be held back to cover unplanned for losses this year due to reduced crowds , we're also now in the business , surely of paying Div 2 wages again , which should also offset some reduced income ?
Overall , I have seen little evidence of any real investment of the profits accrued over the past 2/3 years in enhancing squad quality , even accepting that the signing of 10 new players this close season will have been costly despite their largely free transfer status . |
We usually have 5/6 directors throw around £50K a year into the pot to cover a budgeted £300K loss, I would have thought that they have (quite rightly) had a break from doing this over the last couple of years.
I think we only have 3 directors at the minute, so this and the now expected lower crowds, will have had a drain on the finances as will propping up the stadium company.
The previous profits will have been used up I suppose on Eyre's/Twaddle's/Holness/Jordon's pay offs plus compo to Accy for JC/JB.
Oh and to prop up the minimal commercial activities at the club. |  |
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| Who would you want? on 20:23 - Aug 27 with 1342 views | pl56 |
| Who would you want? on 19:46 - Aug 27 by SteTsGoldenBoot |
We usually have 5/6 directors throw around £50K a year into the pot to cover a budgeted £300K loss, I would have thought that they have (quite rightly) had a break from doing this over the last couple of years.
I think we only have 3 directors at the minute, so this and the now expected lower crowds, will have had a drain on the finances as will propping up the stadium company.
The previous profits will have been used up I suppose on Eyre's/Twaddle's/Holness/Jordon's pay offs plus compo to Accy for JC/JB.
Oh and to prop up the minimal commercial activities at the club. |
Thanks for that .
I think I did know that the club budgetted for a £300K loss per year on the basis that a cup run , player sale , televised football etc might occur , and I fully accept that would/should be covered . However , my rudimentary knowledge of accounting suggests to me that the £400 k profit would include the write-off of the budgetted loss included at the start of the year ? My understanding would be , and again , I don't know , that Directors would only dip in their pockets to offset the loss if the books needed balancing .
I fully take your point about the Stadium Company . As has been said on other threads , if that is a drain on football finances due to the failings of others , then we , as fans , should be fully in the know , and there should be proactive communication to keep us in the loop at all times .
I also take the point about the costs of pay offs and recruitment , and I suspect we are paying the price for bad decisions made in good faith on a number of fronts . Even free transfer signings cost and having virtually a full new team to assemble will have been costly and stem from the ills of the Eyre era , as well as our reduced financial expectations in Div 2 due to less attractive fixtures and reduced crowds .
On that basis I still stand by my view that we haven't seen the investment in the playing staff that we might have expected given the unprecedented success of the previous 4/5 years . There are clear reasons as you point out , but I still feel we should be told unequivocally whether there is still a "war chest" or there isn't ; again its down to good communications , and by communicating , managing expectations within reasonable parameters . | | | |
| Who would you want? on 22:25 - Aug 27 with 1289 views | DaleAwaydayBot |
Coleman needs to call up Eyre and ask him how to win away games |  |
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| Who would you want? on 07:21 - Aug 28 with 1244 views | nordenblue |
| Who would you want? on 20:23 - Aug 27 by pl56 |
Thanks for that .
I think I did know that the club budgetted for a £300K loss per year on the basis that a cup run , player sale , televised football etc might occur , and I fully accept that would/should be covered . However , my rudimentary knowledge of accounting suggests to me that the £400 k profit would include the write-off of the budgetted loss included at the start of the year ? My understanding would be , and again , I don't know , that Directors would only dip in their pockets to offset the loss if the books needed balancing .
I fully take your point about the Stadium Company . As has been said on other threads , if that is a drain on football finances due to the failings of others , then we , as fans , should be fully in the know , and there should be proactive communication to keep us in the loop at all times .
I also take the point about the costs of pay offs and recruitment , and I suspect we are paying the price for bad decisions made in good faith on a number of fronts . Even free transfer signings cost and having virtually a full new team to assemble will have been costly and stem from the ills of the Eyre era , as well as our reduced financial expectations in Div 2 due to less attractive fixtures and reduced crowds .
On that basis I still stand by my view that we haven't seen the investment in the playing staff that we might have expected given the unprecedented success of the previous 4/5 years . There are clear reasons as you point out , but I still feel we should be told unequivocally whether there is still a "war chest" or there isn't ; again its down to good communications , and by communicating , managing expectations within reasonable parameters . |
Good post, i don't buy into this no cash available line at all,as you and others point out we've had plenty more cash coming in than going out in simple terms!! If there's nothing available now how on gods earth did we ever pay 100k for the likes of Platt and the 80k for Flounders or whatever it was in the days of much worse crowds and nowhere near the income from player sales?!!! | | | |
| Who would you want? on 08:46 - Aug 28 with 1212 views | electricblue |
Didnt dale buy Connor for around the £100k mark at the same rime as buying Platt so thats almost 1/4million so that makes me wonder where that cash came from.... | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Who would you want? on 08:48 - Aug 28 with 1211 views | maybee |
| Who would you want? on 08:46 - Aug 28 by electricblue |
Didnt dale buy Connor for around the £100k mark at the same rime as buying Platt so thats almost 1/4million so that makes me wonder where that cash came from.... |
ITV Digital. |  | | |
| Who would you want? on 09:15 - Aug 28 with 1192 views | sandylaner1 |
wouldn't have dickinson anywhere near our team
he was simply awful last time here |  | | |
| Who would you want? on 09:57 - Aug 28 with 1104 views | TVOS1907 |
| Who would you want? on 07:21 - Aug 28 by nordenblue |
Good post, i don't buy into this no cash available line at all,as you and others point out we've had plenty more cash coming in than going out in simple terms!! If there's nothing available now how on gods earth did we ever pay 100k for the likes of Platt and the 80k for Flounders or whatever it was in the days of much worse crowds and nowhere near the income from player sales?!!! |
It's a good point regarding Flounders, but at the time (21 years ago) wages were much lower, squad sizes were smaller (only 2/3 subs back then) and there was hardly any backroom staff, apart from Docherty and Jimmy Robson!
Those three things alone make a massive difference, plus we had just sold Keith Welch for something in the region of £250,000, so around one-third of that went on Flounders. |  |
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| Who would you want? on 10:38 - Aug 28 with 1075 views | nordenblue |
| Who would you want? on 09:57 - Aug 28 by TVOS1907 |
It's a good point regarding Flounders, but at the time (21 years ago) wages were much lower, squad sizes were smaller (only 2/3 subs back then) and there was hardly any backroom staff, apart from Docherty and Jimmy Robson!
Those three things alone make a massive difference, plus we had just sold Keith Welch for something in the region of £250,000, so around one-third of that went on Flounders. |
Good points, but still the income from entrance fees and season tickets was also much lower leaving less money to play either, again how could we back then in the Flounders era afford 1 third of one single incoming transfer fee on a single player,knowingly the club had even less money back then! If we total up incoming transfer fees and add ons from the likes of Lambert,Holt,Alfie,Buckley,Wiseman Done,Hilly compo,COG and Dawson just off the top of my head, wouldn't mind the club investing a third of that amount of money into the squad. I appreciate things aren't quite that simple but im still struggling to understand how there's not a large amount of cash currently being held somewhere within the club!? [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Who would you want? on 10:40 - Aug 28 with 1073 views | dingdangblue |
| Who would you want? on 13:02 - Aug 27 by pnc4eva1 |
Dickinson is a proven goal scorer decent player. However he hardly set the world on fire when he was here.
The forward line is ok at the moment to me it is the supply line that is causing the problems |
Our forward line is ok? Adebola,Grimes,Donnelly and Curran between them in 4 games currently have the grand total of 0 goals! Is there a forward lineup in any of the other 3 league divisions who have made worse start? |  |
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| Who would you want? on 10:43 - Aug 28 with 1065 views | sandylaner1 |
| Who would you want? on 10:40 - Aug 28 by dingdangblue |
Our forward line is ok? Adebola,Grimes,Donnelly and Curran between them in 4 games currently have the grand total of 0 goals! Is there a forward lineup in any of the other 3 league divisions who have made worse start? |
christ when you put it like that...
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| Who would you want? on 11:05 - Aug 28 with 1034 views | fitzochris |
| Who would you want? on 10:43 - Aug 28 by sandylaner1 |
christ when you put it like that...
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I raised this point after the Chesterfield game. We know Grimes and Adebola, at least, have goals in them (Donnelly I knew little about before he joined us), so it’s not like we have goal-shy strikers starting for us.
Some blame the supply, but in the games I’ve seen so far, there have been chances squandered. So the supply is there. I blame the formation to some degree. Donnelly and Grimes playing wide and cutting in perhaps doesn’t suit their own style as much as being one of a front two.
Whatever, I’d be disappointed if JC didn’t bring at least a striker and an attacking midfielder (wide or otherwise) in on loan before Saturday’s game.
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| Who would you want? on 11:26 - Aug 28 with 1018 views | fitzochris |
| Who would you want? on 11:05 - Aug 28 by fitzochris |
I raised this point after the Chesterfield game. We know Grimes and Adebola, at least, have goals in them (Donnelly I knew little about before he joined us), so it’s not like we have goal-shy strikers starting for us.
Some blame the supply, but in the games I’ve seen so far, there have been chances squandered. So the supply is there. I blame the formation to some degree. Donnelly and Grimes playing wide and cutting in perhaps doesn’t suit their own style as much as being one of a front two.
Whatever, I’d be disappointed if JC didn’t bring at least a striker and an attacking midfielder (wide or otherwise) in on loan before Saturday’s game.
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It's all a bit predictable at the moment. We set out in a rough 4-3-3, Tutte scores, nobody else does for 60/70 minutes, Puterill comes on, then maybe Curran, and that's it. A couple of additions are needed at the top end to give us more options and better cover. It'll give the opposition more to consider, if nothing else. | |
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| Who would you want? on 11:58 - Aug 28 with 982 views | maybee |
| Who would you want? on 11:05 - Aug 28 by fitzochris |
I raised this point after the Chesterfield game. We know Grimes and Adebola, at least, have goals in them (Donnelly I knew little about before he joined us), so it’s not like we have goal-shy strikers starting for us.
Some blame the supply, but in the games I’ve seen so far, there have been chances squandered. So the supply is there. I blame the formation to some degree. Donnelly and Grimes playing wide and cutting in perhaps doesn’t suit their own style as much as being one of a front two.
Whatever, I’d be disappointed if JC didn’t bring at least a striker and an attacking midfielder (wide or otherwise) in on loan before Saturday’s game.
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I can see that there is a supply line in place. My worry is that our forwards are not up to speed yet.
Grimes is playing deeper (or wider, as one of three)
Donnelly is also playing too wide, but doesn't look any more than a squad player to my eye
Adebola looks cumbersome.
All the above means that when any decent crosses come into the box, the above players are all too often 10 yards behind play, and unable to reach them
To say that McIntyre can't cross (as someone did) is laughable... many of his crosses would have resulted in chances with a more mobile forward line.
So... for me... a winger with pace (for goodness sakes; I've been saying it since mid way through last season!!!) and a mobile target man to replace COG (and I've been saying that since this time last year!!!)
Worryingly, JC has come out recently and said that there is no more money. This contradicts what we were told at the forum, and kind of makes me think that the "derisory" bid for Grant was indeed just that... a bid designed not to succeed, as we couldn't really afford him.
I will be disappointed if we don't add to our offensive options before deadline day...and very annoyed if either Tutte or Putterill isn't here this time next week. | | | |
| Who would you want? on 12:11 - Aug 28 with 964 views | pl56 |
| Who would you want? on 09:57 - Aug 28 by TVOS1907 |
It's a good point regarding Flounders, but at the time (21 years ago) wages were much lower, squad sizes were smaller (only 2/3 subs back then) and there was hardly any backroom staff, apart from Docherty and Jimmy Robson!
Those three things alone make a massive difference, plus we had just sold Keith Welch for something in the region of £250,000, so around one-third of that went on Flounders. |
Excellent points ,along with Maybee's point re the collapse of ITV Digital . All are totally relevant , but they do raise just a couple of additional issues in my mind .
The first one , and you perhaps are the one to ask (?) , is how much has the cost of watching football at Spotland increased in the same time scale ? My gut feeling is that it has probably exceeded significantly the pay increases in the non-footballing world , and will have contributed to the increased squad costs ?
Your reference to Keith Welch also brought to mind an intriguing thought for me ; during that length of time there has undoubtedly been inflation as reflected in football costs , transfer fees etc . How the hell is it then that we seem largely immune from benefitting from that inflation , and , other than Dawson , we retain an incoming ceiling of £250/300K for all our young talented tranferees ? | | | |
| Who would you want? on 12:42 - Aug 28 with 931 views | sweetcorn |
No whoosh involved. If hes not in northampton's plans as has been suggested, then he could be avaible cheap and would be a great addition for us. Plus is would mean we have the strongest player in fifa history, with an ERECT CANNON! | |
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| Who would you want? on 12:46 - Aug 28 with 931 views | dingdangblue |
| Who would you want? on 12:11 - Aug 28 by pl56 |
Excellent points ,along with Maybee's point re the collapse of ITV Digital . All are totally relevant , but they do raise just a couple of additional issues in my mind .
The first one , and you perhaps are the one to ask (?) , is how much has the cost of watching football at Spotland increased in the same time scale ? My gut feeling is that it has probably exceeded significantly the pay increases in the non-footballing world , and will have contributed to the increased squad costs ?
Your reference to Keith Welch also brought to mind an intriguing thought for me ; during that length of time there has undoubtedly been inflation as reflected in football costs , transfer fees etc . How the hell is it then that we seem largely immune from benefitting from that inflation , and , other than Dawson , we retain an incoming ceiling of £250/300K for all our young talented tranferees ? |
I wonder what say,Crewe wouldve got if they were selling Dawson? | |
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