| It's all about the long term 10:31 - Feb 15 with 6706 views | ColDale |
I think Hilly has been very clear about his wishes for the club this season. I think play offs has been mentioned once if that, what he wants is for us as a club to establish ourselves as a League One club over a number of years, and he's cited the likes of Colchester and Walsall as clubs we should aspire to. He's also been explicit about the dangers of things happening too quick, with his talk of clubs going for things too quickly and then plummeting to the Conference.
Is there a Keith Hill infallibility? Course there isn't, he's not going to get every decision spot on, but history shows that 90% of the time he does and for me, we need to give him that trust to try things and allow him to make mistakes. What we know from him is that there is a purpose behind every decision and it will have been thought through. No matter what some believe, he's not picking names out of a hat when he puts his team together. I'd rather we have a manager that takes risks than one who goes for the safe option every time.
Can't remember whether it was Hilly or Flicker, but they used a phrase years about "the contract beyond the the contract". Part of the philosophy in player recruitment is that we might not be able to pay you the most but we'll make you a better player and then you will reap the rewards. That's what happened with Done, and is the ambition that exists within the dressing room, and it will help Summer recruitment as Hill brings players to the club.
We love the Hilly philosophy when it works out. We love the fact that we live within our means when things are going well. But there's definitely an element that we should just abandon all of that and go all in for a Play Off push. Assuming we don't make the Play Offs, it'll be classed that we blew it or it was in the palm of our hands and we just let it slip, in the same way on the back of two away defeats we are suddenly facing a relegation battle. We've been facing a relegation battle from the moment they read the Fleetwood score out whilst we danced on the pitch last season. It's just that we've been fighting it a little too well. I think people have got carried away by the league position, yet ignoring the fact that we were always two games away from the bottom half.
Every defeat seems to bring about a crisis these days, and players who have took us to to promotion and to the top five in League One are written off at a whim. There's probably been about three or four crises since Hill came back. We had the early days where he couldn't stop the rot, we had the crisis last Easter where we were blowing our chance of promotion, we had the crisis in August where this football team were incapable of scoring goals, and until we signed someone, relegation was an inevitability.
I read yesterday somewhere that the postponement against Orient was more damaging than the back to back defeats, and I think that was spot on. I know you can never claim points before the game has been played, but on the assumption that had we played, we'd have won, our league position would have still looked magnificent. 9th place with a game in hand on the team in the last play off position. Failure to play that game has got people discussing relegation.
Who knows where we will end up this season, but we'll have done so with the smallest wage bill and produced a substantial profit - a profit that we will allow to compete next season, and the season after because that's what it's all about: this side continuing to do what it does best, and punching well above its weight.
I think we have to ask ourselves what we want from our football club. For me, it's year on year progress, and we've got that. I want it done in such a way where given that we're never going to get the crowds we deserve that funds are generated and ploughed back in for the long term benefit. We've got that. I want the football club run in such a way that we give young players - especially local lads - the chance to play and progress and we've got that. And I don't want any of that being dismantled for short term gain.
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| It's all about the long term on 10:06 - Feb 16 with 2217 views | Daley_Lama |
| It's all about the long term on 09:44 - Feb 16 by nordenblue |
Since when has a football club been run in the best interest of the fans, the chairmans a business man ultimately and makes his decisions based on just that,Hilly wont be too conscious of pleasing everyone else if theres a chance to satisfy his own needs primarily.
As usual we are given the mushroom treatment over most aspects of the club until its season ticket time then amazingly enough well suddenly be well informed of all matters money.This whole undisclosed transfer fee is just to help cloud the waters further to prevent obvious grief |
Things must be bad if Col is having to go all Martin Luther King after a couple of defeats by the odd goal. |  |
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| It's all about the long term on 11:05 - Feb 16 with 2162 views | D_Alien |
| It's all about the long term on 10:06 - Feb 16 by Daley_Lama |
Things must be bad if Col is having to go all Martin Luther King after a couple of defeats by the odd goal. |
We should only be worried if he goes all Malcolm X |  |
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| It's all about the long term on 17:40 - Feb 16 with 1929 views | DaleiLama |
Spot on for me Col. A couple of additional comments:
Some folk are still bemoaning the loss of Done in this window and saying this sank our season. Following that logic and reversing it, had we been promoted then sold him, we'd be playing a league above where we are now without Done. Erm ...... if we can't get promoted from L1 without Done, then how could we ever prosper against tougher opposition in the C'ship (even with bringing some new players in)?
Also, are we really a one man team? What would have happened (had he not been transferred) if he tore his ligaments or something even worse that ends his career at Spotland? We are still where we are now but without the cash in the bank.
Done moved on and we also have to. If Fergie couldn't stop Ronaldo going to RM, I think it is naïve to think Rochdale have deep enough pockets, let alone the desire to keep players against their will. United survived the loss of CR and we need to continue to develop to the point where we can afford to lose key players without going into a tailspin.
What these points illustrate, imho, is the importance of a good SQUAD of players. As Col pointed out the goal of Hilly is to establish a L1 club = have a squad of players that can perform week-in, week-out and cope with losses from injury or drop offs in form and consistently get good or very good results in L1. It's what gave us the leg-up from L2 to L1.
Our current form has dropped off and we have lost two away games on the bounce, but each by only one goal. We started both disastrously but still closed the gap before FT. We are still scoring goals. Our GD is still good, but we are shipping way too many (especially early). We aren't there yet.
Looking at the current squad, it would be interesting to hear where people think we really are with our current players versus L1 opposition and even higher. We are certainly weaker than we were without Conrad and Done and we are suffering from Hendo being in a trough and Bennet out. How many of our squad could honestly really hold their own at Championship level though? We put together a great run of form, two good cup runs and got up as far as a play-off spot, but didn't maintain the form to stay there. Some of it is no doubt due to losing Done, but what this wobble shows me is we are not really ready to push for a play off berth yet and probably a good way off the next level. We need more quality and strength in depth before we make the next step. We have to trust Hilly to continue to manage that transition. He's made a few head-scratching decisions team-wise recently, but he still has us in a good place. The fact that some are dis-satisfied with mid-table in L1 shows how far we have come!
Up the Dale and viva Keith |  |
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| It's all about the long term on 18:28 - Feb 16 with 1869 views | TalkingSutty |
| It's all about the long term on 17:40 - Feb 16 by DaleiLama |
Spot on for me Col. A couple of additional comments:
Some folk are still bemoaning the loss of Done in this window and saying this sank our season. Following that logic and reversing it, had we been promoted then sold him, we'd be playing a league above where we are now without Done. Erm ...... if we can't get promoted from L1 without Done, then how could we ever prosper against tougher opposition in the C'ship (even with bringing some new players in)?
Also, are we really a one man team? What would have happened (had he not been transferred) if he tore his ligaments or something even worse that ends his career at Spotland? We are still where we are now but without the cash in the bank.
Done moved on and we also have to. If Fergie couldn't stop Ronaldo going to RM, I think it is naïve to think Rochdale have deep enough pockets, let alone the desire to keep players against their will. United survived the loss of CR and we need to continue to develop to the point where we can afford to lose key players without going into a tailspin.
What these points illustrate, imho, is the importance of a good SQUAD of players. As Col pointed out the goal of Hilly is to establish a L1 club = have a squad of players that can perform week-in, week-out and cope with losses from injury or drop offs in form and consistently get good or very good results in L1. It's what gave us the leg-up from L2 to L1.
Our current form has dropped off and we have lost two away games on the bounce, but each by only one goal. We started both disastrously but still closed the gap before FT. We are still scoring goals. Our GD is still good, but we are shipping way too many (especially early). We aren't there yet.
Looking at the current squad, it would be interesting to hear where people think we really are with our current players versus L1 opposition and even higher. We are certainly weaker than we were without Conrad and Done and we are suffering from Hendo being in a trough and Bennet out. How many of our squad could honestly really hold their own at Championship level though? We put together a great run of form, two good cup runs and got up as far as a play-off spot, but didn't maintain the form to stay there. Some of it is no doubt due to losing Done, but what this wobble shows me is we are not really ready to push for a play off berth yet and probably a good way off the next level. We need more quality and strength in depth before we make the next step. We have to trust Hilly to continue to manage that transition. He's made a few head-scratching decisions team-wise recently, but he still has us in a good place. The fact that some are dis-satisfied with mid-table in L1 shows how far we have come!
Up the Dale and viva Keith |
I don't recall reading anywhere that fans are dis-satisfied finishing mid-table, that would represent a brilliant season.
Some have wondered out loud if Done staying put and the club having a dabble in the transfer market with a view to maybe achieving the unthinkable was worth a gamble. The fact Done wanted to leave makes the discussion redundant. |  | | |
| It's all about the long term on 18:52 - Feb 16 with 1829 views | DaleiLama |
| It's all about the long term on 18:28 - Feb 16 by TalkingSutty |
I don't recall reading anywhere that fans are dis-satisfied finishing mid-table, that would represent a brilliant season.
Some have wondered out loud if Done staying put and the club having a dabble in the transfer market with a view to maybe achieving the unthinkable was worth a gamble. The fact Done wanted to leave makes the discussion redundant. |
Not every fan, TS, but the Done deal Is still being talked about in the same breath as not making the play-offs and lack of ambition. I think consolidation and continued strengthening of the squad shows more ambition - as Col posted, the aim is long term - get up and stay up. | |
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| It's all about the long term on 19:14 - Feb 16 with 1784 views | nordenblue |
| It's all about the long term on 18:52 - Feb 16 by DaleiLama |
Not every fan, TS, but the Done deal Is still being talked about in the same breath as not making the play-offs and lack of ambition. I think consolidation and continued strengthening of the squad shows more ambition - as Col posted, the aim is long term - get up and stay up. |
Without banging the same drum, theres quite a few feel that this season even though far too soon in most peoples opinion was a cracking opportunity to have a go at the play offs, weve shown we can compete when on our game with most teams.Who's to say we will ever find ourselves in a similar position to make the playoffs for years and years to come.
I still fail to see how selling your best player for nowhere near his market value equates to "strengthening" the squad whilst showing ambition. |  | | |
| It's all about the long term on 19:53 - Feb 16 with 1727 views | DaleiLama |
| It's all about the long term on 19:14 - Feb 16 by nordenblue |
Without banging the same drum, theres quite a few feel that this season even though far too soon in most peoples opinion was a cracking opportunity to have a go at the play offs, weve shown we can compete when on our game with most teams.Who's to say we will ever find ourselves in a similar position to make the playoffs for years and years to come.
I still fail to see how selling your best player for nowhere near his market value equates to "strengthening" the squad whilst showing ambition. |
I get your pov, I just see things from a different perspective. We both want the same thing, just different ideas of how best to get there. Maybe I'm being naïve, but I believe within the next 5 years we'll at least compete in the play-offs and hopefully get promoted. With a stronger, deeper squad, we have a better chance of avoiding the up and straight down scenario and have a better shot at staying up. No right and wrongs in this, just opinions, but one thing we can agree on, that drum has been beaten enough. Peace. | |
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| It's all about the long term on 20:21 - Feb 16 with 1678 views | dalefan |
| It's all about the long term on 17:40 - Feb 16 by DaleiLama |
Spot on for me Col. A couple of additional comments:
Some folk are still bemoaning the loss of Done in this window and saying this sank our season. Following that logic and reversing it, had we been promoted then sold him, we'd be playing a league above where we are now without Done. Erm ...... if we can't get promoted from L1 without Done, then how could we ever prosper against tougher opposition in the C'ship (even with bringing some new players in)?
Also, are we really a one man team? What would have happened (had he not been transferred) if he tore his ligaments or something even worse that ends his career at Spotland? We are still where we are now but without the cash in the bank.
Done moved on and we also have to. If Fergie couldn't stop Ronaldo going to RM, I think it is naïve to think Rochdale have deep enough pockets, let alone the desire to keep players against their will. United survived the loss of CR and we need to continue to develop to the point where we can afford to lose key players without going into a tailspin.
What these points illustrate, imho, is the importance of a good SQUAD of players. As Col pointed out the goal of Hilly is to establish a L1 club = have a squad of players that can perform week-in, week-out and cope with losses from injury or drop offs in form and consistently get good or very good results in L1. It's what gave us the leg-up from L2 to L1.
Our current form has dropped off and we have lost two away games on the bounce, but each by only one goal. We started both disastrously but still closed the gap before FT. We are still scoring goals. Our GD is still good, but we are shipping way too many (especially early). We aren't there yet.
Looking at the current squad, it would be interesting to hear where people think we really are with our current players versus L1 opposition and even higher. We are certainly weaker than we were without Conrad and Done and we are suffering from Hendo being in a trough and Bennet out. How many of our squad could honestly really hold their own at Championship level though? We put together a great run of form, two good cup runs and got up as far as a play-off spot, but didn't maintain the form to stay there. Some of it is no doubt due to losing Done, but what this wobble shows me is we are not really ready to push for a play off berth yet and probably a good way off the next level. We need more quality and strength in depth before we make the next step. We have to trust Hilly to continue to manage that transition. He's made a few head-scratching decisions team-wise recently, but he still has us in a good place. The fact that some are dis-satisfied with mid-table in L1 shows how far we have come!
Up the Dale and viva Keith |
I think you and Col are both spot on. I wish I could sum it up as well as you both can | | | |
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| It's all about the long term on 20:35 - Feb 16 with 1637 views | nordenblue |
Fully agree and you've posted some decent points to be fair to you, just a differing view and nice to have a debate without people resorting to slagging others off. | | | |
| It's all about the long term on 21:24 - Feb 16 with 1595 views | 100notout |
| It's all about the long term on 19:14 - Feb 16 by nordenblue |
Without banging the same drum, theres quite a few feel that this season even though far too soon in most peoples opinion was a cracking opportunity to have a go at the play offs, weve shown we can compete when on our game with most teams.Who's to say we will ever find ourselves in a similar position to make the playoffs for years and years to come.
I still fail to see how selling your best player for nowhere near his market value equates to "strengthening" the squad whilst showing ambition. |
It was an undisclosed fee so how do you know we got nowhere near his market value?
I'm really disappointed he's gone but I can accept that its in the best interests of the club long term.
Bottom line is that until we can get more through the turnstiles and increase commercial income streams, we will always fail to hold on to our better players and you can't blame them for wanting to move and substantially increase their income. | |
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| It's all about the long term on 21:45 - Feb 16 with 1554 views | nordenblue |
| It's all about the long term on 21:24 - Feb 16 by 100notout |
It was an undisclosed fee so how do you know we got nowhere near his market value?
I'm really disappointed he's gone but I can accept that its in the best interests of the club long term.
Bottom line is that until we can get more through the turnstiles and increase commercial income streams, we will always fail to hold on to our better players and you can't blame them for wanting to move and substantially increase their income. |
Its pretty common knowledge the amount tbf.As said previously players will always move on thats the same for most teams in the world its the timing thats piss poor. | | | |
| It's all about the long term on 21:47 - Feb 16 with 1547 views | 100notout |
| It's all about the long term on 21:45 - Feb 16 by nordenblue |
Its pretty common knowledge the amount tbf.As said previously players will always move on thats the same for most teams in the world its the timing thats piss poor. |
How much was it? | |
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| It's all about the long term on 21:54 - Feb 16 with 1530 views | nordenblue |
| It's all about the long term on 21:47 - Feb 16 by 100notout |
How much was it? |
Read blue messiah comments on page 1 of this thread | | | |
| It's all about the long term on 22:09 - Feb 16 with 1503 views | 100notout |
| It's all about the long term on 21:54 - Feb 16 by nordenblue |
Read blue messiah comments on page 1 of this thread |
Is that it? Blue Messiah said it so it must be true?
Sorry NB I'm not having a pop at you and I've no idea who Blue Messiah is so I've no idea whether that figure is accurate or not. Even if it is what about the add-ons? Maybe we'll double that with the add-ons? | |
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| It's all about the long term on 22:26 - Feb 16 with 1472 views | midlandsdale |
| It's all about the long term on 22:09 - Feb 16 by 100notout |
Is that it? Blue Messiah said it so it must be true?
Sorry NB I'm not having a pop at you and I've no idea who Blue Messiah is so I've no idea whether that figure is accurate or not. Even if it is what about the add-ons? Maybe we'll double that with the add-ons? |
Its great that we are having these debates with attendances of 2,500. In 40 years of playing for and following the Dale we are in a great place. Selling our best players is unfortunately our business survival model and whilst as ND states its frustrating, its the way this board are running the club.
I think we have been both poor & unlucky in the last 2 games, in the same way its gone our way in other games. As Hilly has stated today, he may now have to strengthen to keep us mid table or better. In terms of the undisclosed fee, whatever it is CG will have got the best deal he thought possible. Trust him, he's has been doing rather well for a few years now! |  | | |
| It's all about the long term on 23:36 - Feb 16 with 1384 views | mikehunt |
So we weakened the team (unnecessarily at this particular point in time imho) and now we have to strengthen it? I'm sorry but I just don't get it.
The Done thing really bothers me. I would have had no problem with him leaving at the end of the season and the only thing to mitigate his leaving mid-season was a stonking good fee. So how come I feel we have been shafted - as usual. Who honestly believes we have got what we deserved for him? Honestly. If the rest due is down to the Blades going up well if they don't sneak an auto then remember a couple of seasons back when Yeovil beat the favourites to go up. The Blades are notorious play-off bottlers. What a gamble.
And by the way I am not whingeing on about promotion or play-offs. Just after a comfortable season, finishing as high as possible. |  |
| The worm of time turns not for the cuckoo of circumstance. |
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| It's all about the long term on 00:04 - Feb 17 with 1363 views | midlandsdale |
| It's all about the long term on 23:36 - Feb 16 by mikehunt |
So we weakened the team (unnecessarily at this particular point in time imho) and now we have to strengthen it? I'm sorry but I just don't get it.
The Done thing really bothers me. I would have had no problem with him leaving at the end of the season and the only thing to mitigate his leaving mid-season was a stonking good fee. So how come I feel we have been shafted - as usual. Who honestly believes we have got what we deserved for him? Honestly. If the rest due is down to the Blades going up well if they don't sneak an auto then remember a couple of seasons back when Yeovil beat the favourites to go up. The Blades are notorious play-off bottlers. What a gamble.
And by the way I am not whingeing on about promotion or play-offs. Just after a comfortable season, finishing as high as possible. |
Matt wanted to leave. What else is there to discuss | | | |
| It's all about the long term on 00:23 - Feb 17 with 1341 views | roccydaleian |
| It's all about the long term on 00:04 - Feb 17 by midlandsdale |
Matt wanted to leave. What else is there to discuss |
Not sure he wanted to leave, but when someone come's in like Sheff Utd and agents get involved, what can be done. Get over it and see how the rest of the season pans out.
Up the Dale. |  | | |
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