| The Wrong Strikers 18:42 - Jul 29 with 6805 views | WestbourneR |
Ollie seems absolutely convinced that Washington is our best striker and that he needs a partner so he gives him Matt Smith. We seem to be set up tactically primarily for the benefit of Washington.
Now, I agree that Washington needs a partner but I'm just not sure he's worth the investment of minutes and tactics we're putting in. He's just not good enough to build our plan A around.
I think Sylla is the best striker at the club. I'm pretty sure his strike is better than either Washington's or Smith's - and yet he doesn't start.
I think Smith is handy and was clearly cheap, so I'd keep - but I'd move Washington on if we could recoup near to our fee. I see Nakhi Wells is available from Huddersfield... |  |
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| The Wrong Strikers on 18:43 - Jul 29 with 4896 views | Rangersw12 |
Wells will go for 10 million so a bit out of our price range
Shame we didn't get him for a million from Bradford |  | | |
| The Wrong Strikers on 18:54 - Jul 29 with 4843 views | DesertBoot |
Why doesn't Olly try Washington and Sylla together from the start of a match - not the last ten by default.
Smith is slow and unless a ball lands directly on his head, he won't get the ball first - playing him is a waste of a player. |  |
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| The Wrong Strikers on 19:21 - Jul 29 with 4701 views | kingo |
I thought we looked much better after the mass substitutions, Sylla and Yeni plus Mackie showed much more close interplay and I also thought Goss looked ok at cb. We have a very decent midfield but Olly can't keep trying to make it work around Washington. |  |
| RIP: Sniffer, Doug and Pat |
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| The Wrong Strikers on 19:22 - Jul 29 with 4694 views | SimonJames |
Makes you wonder where our 60+ goals are going to come from. |  |
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| The Wrong Strikers on 20:51 - Jul 29 with 4381 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
We're going to need them all no matter what. Was quite impressed with Sylla today, off the ball. Will he be showing the same discipline come February up in Bramall Lane? |  |
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| The Wrong Strikers on 21:16 - Jul 29 with 4277 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| The Wrong Strikers on 18:43 - Jul 29 by Rangersw12 |
Wells will go for 10 million so a bit out of our price range
Shame we didn't get him for a million from Bradford |
Would we have turned him into a £10m player? We were in the premier league in 2014. | |
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| The Wrong Strikers on 21:17 - Jul 29 with 4270 views | bosh67 |
Sylla and Yeni looked much sharper and were more of a threat than Connor and Matt today. |  |
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| The Wrong Strikers on 21:47 - Jul 29 with 4177 views | Northolt_Rs |
| The Wrong Strikers on 21:17 - Jul 29 by bosh67 |
Sylla and Yeni looked much sharper and were more of a threat than Connor and Matt today. |
I'm more of a threat than Washington and Smith. Has to be our weakest strike force I can remember. Bang average League 1 standard the pair of 'em... |  |
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| The Wrong Strikers on 22:47 - Jul 29 with 4088 views | daveB |
I don't mind Smith, a half decent target man but Washington always seems a second behind play which means he is very slow to react to anything.
Would agree Sylla looked good today but was getting slaughtered by a few fans in the second half, mot sure why |  | | |
| The Wrong Strikers on 05:42 - Jul 30 with 3899 views | Neil_SI |
This is more about how much time and patience we’re willing to afford. All of the strikers we have need to develop areas of their game, which is tough when there is such a reliance on them to score goals and help us win games.
But, strikers aren’t cheap and there’s no guarantee that proven ones will reproduce their goal scoring form here. We’ve seen that in the past, so we’re going to have to compromise and support these players as much as possible.
If you combine all three of Washington, Smith and Sylla then you’ve got an excellent all round striker, but the reality is we can’t afford a player of such calibre. All we can ask of them is to keep improving and they can all learn from each other to some degree.
Sylla is a poacher who comes alive in the six yard box, which is something Smith and Washington can improve on. Washington has shown some glimpses he can add this to his locker, and while he has some some way to go to reach the consistent standard required, his favourite move that was so effective for him at a lower level, which is to latch onto balls on the left side and cut inside for a shot on goal, is something that Sylla could potentially add to his arsenal. Similarly, Washington is the pick of the bunch for long range shooting, even if we haven’t seen much success for him with it at this level. Sylla should be able to do better here, maybe Smith too but Smith’s size means his agility and mobility makes this more difficult for him.
While Smith isn’t a traditional back to goal player, his work ethic and ability to compete for most duals and make each moment difficult for defenders, is something both Washington and Sylla can add to their games.
Washington is the most willing presser of the ball in defensive situations, but is also naive and needs to work on his timing and when to go and how to close angles down properly. But, at least he is a willing runner, because Smith and Sylla aren’t and perhaps Sylla could do better here. For a look at how to press and be a nuisance, Jamie Mackie is the best example for them, even if he is sometimes naive, his work ethic and persistence are never half hearted.
We don't necessarily want them all to be clones of one another, but these are bread and butter basics that they can add to their games and move forwards. All three need to work on their first touch and tactical lateral passing and bringing others into play. Maybe a striker in on loan with those kind of qualities would help.
Most importantly we must play to their strengths as much as possible. We didn’t do that enough last season, which didn’t help for confidence or form at various stages. |  | | |
| The Wrong Strikers on 08:01 - Jul 30 with 3725 views | davman |
| The Wrong Strikers on 05:42 - Jul 30 by Neil_SI |
This is more about how much time and patience we’re willing to afford. All of the strikers we have need to develop areas of their game, which is tough when there is such a reliance on them to score goals and help us win games.
But, strikers aren’t cheap and there’s no guarantee that proven ones will reproduce their goal scoring form here. We’ve seen that in the past, so we’re going to have to compromise and support these players as much as possible.
If you combine all three of Washington, Smith and Sylla then you’ve got an excellent all round striker, but the reality is we can’t afford a player of such calibre. All we can ask of them is to keep improving and they can all learn from each other to some degree.
Sylla is a poacher who comes alive in the six yard box, which is something Smith and Washington can improve on. Washington has shown some glimpses he can add this to his locker, and while he has some some way to go to reach the consistent standard required, his favourite move that was so effective for him at a lower level, which is to latch onto balls on the left side and cut inside for a shot on goal, is something that Sylla could potentially add to his arsenal. Similarly, Washington is the pick of the bunch for long range shooting, even if we haven’t seen much success for him with it at this level. Sylla should be able to do better here, maybe Smith too but Smith’s size means his agility and mobility makes this more difficult for him.
While Smith isn’t a traditional back to goal player, his work ethic and ability to compete for most duals and make each moment difficult for defenders, is something both Washington and Sylla can add to their games.
Washington is the most willing presser of the ball in defensive situations, but is also naive and needs to work on his timing and when to go and how to close angles down properly. But, at least he is a willing runner, because Smith and Sylla aren’t and perhaps Sylla could do better here. For a look at how to press and be a nuisance, Jamie Mackie is the best example for them, even if he is sometimes naive, his work ethic and persistence are never half hearted.
We don't necessarily want them all to be clones of one another, but these are bread and butter basics that they can add to their games and move forwards. All three need to work on their first touch and tactical lateral passing and bringing others into play. Maybe a striker in on loan with those kind of qualities would help.
Most importantly we must play to their strengths as much as possible. We didn’t do that enough last season, which didn’t help for confidence or form at various stages. |
Unfortunately "playing to their strengths" for Matt Smith is pumping it long, letting him flick it on to the other striker (who isn't here yet), who can anticipate and run on to it. Washington doesn't appear to have that ability to anticipate that Smith is going to win the ball and where he is going to put it.
At least when Sylla is the focal point, he tries to maintain possession - just look how many times he tries to take it down on his chest rather than just flick it on. Yet another reason he has to be picked ahead of the very, very willing, but extremely limited Matt Smith.
Training Sylla to play the lone role bringing in willing runners like Yeni and Freeman from deep is an equally good option (maybe better) to giving Washington and Smith a run of games together to forge a partnership. |  |
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| The Wrong Strikers on 08:09 - Jul 30 with 3704 views | daveB |
| The Wrong Strikers on 08:01 - Jul 30 by davman |
Unfortunately "playing to their strengths" for Matt Smith is pumping it long, letting him flick it on to the other striker (who isn't here yet), who can anticipate and run on to it. Washington doesn't appear to have that ability to anticipate that Smith is going to win the ball and where he is going to put it.
At least when Sylla is the focal point, he tries to maintain possession - just look how many times he tries to take it down on his chest rather than just flick it on. Yet another reason he has to be picked ahead of the very, very willing, but extremely limited Matt Smith.
Training Sylla to play the lone role bringing in willing runners like Yeni and Freeman from deep is an equally good option (maybe better) to giving Washington and Smith a run of games together to forge a partnership. |
I'm not sure knocking it long to Smith is his strength, he looks a bigger threat when we get crosses into the box for him to attack | | | |
| The Wrong Strikers on 08:30 - Jul 30 with 3654 views | LadbrokeR |
It's not like he hasn't seen enough of these four players now. I thought Smith looked a bit trimmer but sadly not mobile enough. Also we we set up to knock long balls to him teams will find that easy to defend against. We need to play Cilla. | | | |
| The Wrong Strikers on 09:59 - Jul 30 with 3555 views | RBlock |
| The Wrong Strikers on 08:01 - Jul 30 by davman |
Unfortunately "playing to their strengths" for Matt Smith is pumping it long, letting him flick it on to the other striker (who isn't here yet), who can anticipate and run on to it. Washington doesn't appear to have that ability to anticipate that Smith is going to win the ball and where he is going to put it.
At least when Sylla is the focal point, he tries to maintain possession - just look how many times he tries to take it down on his chest rather than just flick it on. Yet another reason he has to be picked ahead of the very, very willing, but extremely limited Matt Smith.
Training Sylla to play the lone role bringing in willing runners like Yeni and Freeman from deep is an equally good option (maybe better) to giving Washington and Smith a run of games together to forge a partnership. |
I'm with you here. For the first hour we spent too long going direct to Smith, and I can remember maybe one occasion where we retained possession from his knock downs/flick ons. Contrast that to Sylla's last half hour, where he must have bought the ball down on his chest at least 3 times, and bought others into play allowing the whole team to move up the field. Two things I would ask of Sylla at this stage. One is to show a bit more fight and aggression when holding the ball up. He won us a few free kicks in decent areas, but sometimes you want him to show a bit more Mackie-esque scrap to him. The other thing I noticed is that he has a tendency to hold the ball up well, bring others in, then he doesn't get back in the box quick enough. We get the wingers involved then he is trotting forward instead of haring in to get on the end of a cross. Definitely our best forward option though. Not impressed with Washington's showing at all yesterday. |  | | |
| The Wrong Strikers on 10:08 - Jul 30 with 3532 views | Hunterhoop |
| The Wrong Strikers on 22:47 - Jul 29 by daveB |
I don't mind Smith, a half decent target man but Washington always seems a second behind play which means he is very slow to react to anything.
Would agree Sylla looked good today but was getting slaughtered by a few fans in the second half, mot sure why |
Agree. I quite like Smith. With the right service he could be a handful.
The right service isn't long balls pumped up for the centre half (even when he runs them Washington seems unable to anticipate them well).
The right service is crossed from wider areas. Same goes for Sylla. Our entire game plan should be based on how we get the ball wide into that area from 30 yards out to the byline. From there we can sling crosses in which suit our forwards and midfielders arriving Kate/stationed on the edge of the box for clearances.
Once we have this "Plan A", we can then explore plans b and c. |  | | |
| The Wrong Strikers on 10:23 - Jul 30 with 3502 views | WatfordR |
First time I've seen Matt Smith play, and I can't really see why he'd be ahead of Sylla in the pecking order (other than of course he's Olly's purchase). Immobile doesn't quite describe him adequately, yes he competes for long balls and yes he'll always be a threat from crosses, but he doesn't lay the ball off any more reliably than Sylla, and he provides absolutely no barrier to the opposing back four walking the ball out from the back at their leisure.
Regards Washington, the only time he provided a a threat yesterday was when the ball was played along the ground and through the middle - Luongo impressed in the first half in a central role and picked a few really decent through balls. But like others, I'm just not sure Conor is quite sharp enough at this level. I really want him to be, and maybe the issue is more with the style of football the team is being asked to play.
I feel we have a decent squad, and should be playing to our strengths which are in midfield, rtather than looking to lump it long. Maybe the quality of distribution from full back is an issue, but if that's the case it should be easier to address than finding a 20 goal striker for £1m. |  | | |
| The Wrong Strikers on 10:49 - Jul 30 with 3441 views | derbyhoop |
There's clearly an issue with each of our 3 main strikers, as Neil's analysis shows. However, if anybody has a spare £5m then we can address the problem this week. Otherwise we're going to have to work with what we have. That includes finding the most effective combination.
It's probably a touch unfair to judge performances against a defence of PL quality. |  |
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| The Wrong Strikers on 11:26 - Jul 30 with 3382 views | Rangersw12 |
| The Wrong Strikers on 21:16 - Jul 29 by CliveWilsonSaid |
Would we have turned him into a £10m player? We were in the premier league in 2014. |
Even in 2014 we needed a pacy striker and he would of fit the bill | | | |
| The Wrong Strikers on 11:58 - Jul 30 with 3309 views | davman |
| The Wrong Strikers on 10:08 - Jul 30 by Hunterhoop |
Agree. I quite like Smith. With the right service he could be a handful.
The right service isn't long balls pumped up for the centre half (even when he runs them Washington seems unable to anticipate them well).
The right service is crossed from wider areas. Same goes for Sylla. Our entire game plan should be based on how we get the ball wide into that area from 30 yards out to the byline. From there we can sling crosses in which suit our forwards and midfielders arriving Kate/stationed on the edge of the box for clearances.
Once we have this "Plan A", we can then explore plans b and c. |
Don't get me wrong, I like Smith too BUT is he any better than Sylla getting on to crosses? I don't think so as his conversion record shows. Is he any better receiving long balls out of our defence? Nope; as I say, Sylla at least tries to hold the ball up, whereas Smith flicks things on, and until we get someone alongside him who anticipates those flicks (and Washington doesn't appear to be able to do so), those flicks end up giving up possession.
I think we all see what Sylla and Smith bring to the table; this may sound harsh, but Washington appears to be a poor version of Jamie Mackie - all the huff and puff (but so much less of a nuisance than Jamie is) and little end product. I am sure that there is a player in there somewhere, but after a season and a bit, I would have thought we'D be clear on what his strengths actually are... | |
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| The Wrong Strikers on 12:10 - Jul 30 with 3283 views | kingo |
| The Wrong Strikers on 09:59 - Jul 30 by RBlock |
I'm with you here. For the first hour we spent too long going direct to Smith, and I can remember maybe one occasion where we retained possession from his knock downs/flick ons. Contrast that to Sylla's last half hour, where he must have bought the ball down on his chest at least 3 times, and bought others into play allowing the whole team to move up the field. Two things I would ask of Sylla at this stage. One is to show a bit more fight and aggression when holding the ball up. He won us a few free kicks in decent areas, but sometimes you want him to show a bit more Mackie-esque scrap to him. The other thing I noticed is that he has a tendency to hold the ball up well, bring others in, then he doesn't get back in the box quick enough. We get the wingers involved then he is trotting forward instead of haring in to get on the end of a cross. Definitely our best forward option though. Not impressed with Washington's showing at all yesterday. |
Completely agree with you. I tend to think Olly is trying to make a system work that involves Washington and unfortunately it just isn't happening. I think Matt Smith will get us some important goals but as a plan B. Sylla and Yeni created more in their 30 minutes than we did in the first hour. The Bournemouth defence was exceptionally tall but we are going to come up against big defences and we can't rely on Washington getting in behind them as yesterday he just didn't seem to position himself to do that. | |
| RIP: Sniffer, Doug and Pat |
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| The Wrong Strikers on 13:05 - Jul 30 with 3183 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
Trying to build a Championship attack around Washington has to be a definition of insanity.
Invariably a second late to the ball whether defending or attacking. Unable to anticipate Smith's flicks though they mostly go in the same area, you could stand there waiting for them. Rarely gets in dangerous positions in the box.
His poor scoring record isn't about the team being set up to suit him, it's about him having very few ways of scoring goals. Peterborough may have found the answer but in a season and a bit it hasn't happened here, and it isn't going to.
Sometimes I think that despite all the obvious effort buzzing around he actually tries to avoid the ball.
Whatever, he is relegation fodder. | | | |
| The Wrong Strikers on 14:49 - Jul 30 with 3016 views | DejR_vu |
All of our strikers are average. That's not going to change because we can't afford better and any improvement will take time. The bigger problem imo is the service to them. It's in short supply and it's invariably poor. So we have average strikers feeding off scraps.
We need to stop obsessing about the strikers. More and better service to them will obviously help but given that they wil need more chances than good strikers need it's still going to be a struggle to get them enough supply for them to see us through. Plus, if we set up to provide as many chances as possible to the strikers we're going to be more exposed at the back where we are at our weakest.
We need to find a way to get more goals spread across the side. The midfield have been woefully short and when was the last time we had a centre back that you could rely on to score regularly from set pieces? | |
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| The Wrong Strikers on 14:53 - Jul 30 with 3002 views | francisbowles |
| The Wrong Strikers on 14:49 - Jul 30 by DejR_vu |
All of our strikers are average. That's not going to change because we can't afford better and any improvement will take time. The bigger problem imo is the service to them. It's in short supply and it's invariably poor. So we have average strikers feeding off scraps.
We need to stop obsessing about the strikers. More and better service to them will obviously help but given that they wil need more chances than good strikers need it's still going to be a struggle to get them enough supply for them to see us through. Plus, if we set up to provide as many chances as possible to the strikers we're going to be more exposed at the back where we are at our weakest.
We need to find a way to get more goals spread across the side. The midfield have been woefully short and when was the last time we had a centre back that you could rely on to score regularly from set pieces? |
Well we managed to create at least three decent chances for them against a very solid and well drilled premier league defence. Bournemouth looked more concerned when Sylla, Yeni and Mackie were on. | | | |
| The Wrong Strikers on 14:56 - Jul 30 with 2997 views | WestbourneR |
Seems we're all on the same page here. Ollie is putting as his eggs in the Washington basket - and playing Smith to make it work - but honestly Washington has played a lot of games and he lacks the attributes to score many goals at this level.
For me Washington's main issue is he's not truly quick, he's sharp and muscular, but he's not got a top speed to damage over the top. And he's obviously got no chance holding up then ball or in the air. Also his standard 'cut in on his right' is easily telegraphed by defenders at our level. There is no disguise of guile to it.
For me Sylla has always been our best bet out of the three. His hold up play is actually very good - he's makes alot of aimless long punts into decent balls, gets it under control and lays it off simple. He's very good at getting on the end of crosses - huge leap on him.
Frankly his goals to minutes ratio is the best. He's not prolific but he scores consistently.
Ollie took against him very early on and I think wholelly unfairly.
There is theme here - foreign players get a bad deal from Ollie. He's bit of a little Englander for me. Liked an old school English trier like Smith and is deeply suspicious of foreign players. The speaking English rubbish is used as a smoke-screen. Has done it over and over. Right back to Padula days. | |
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| The Wrong Strikers on 15:04 - Jul 30 with 2961 views | francisbowles |
| The Wrong Strikers on 14:56 - Jul 30 by WestbourneR |
Seems we're all on the same page here. Ollie is putting as his eggs in the Washington basket - and playing Smith to make it work - but honestly Washington has played a lot of games and he lacks the attributes to score many goals at this level.
For me Washington's main issue is he's not truly quick, he's sharp and muscular, but he's not got a top speed to damage over the top. And he's obviously got no chance holding up then ball or in the air. Also his standard 'cut in on his right' is easily telegraphed by defenders at our level. There is no disguise of guile to it.
For me Sylla has always been our best bet out of the three. His hold up play is actually very good - he's makes alot of aimless long punts into decent balls, gets it under control and lays it off simple. He's very good at getting on the end of crosses - huge leap on him.
Frankly his goals to minutes ratio is the best. He's not prolific but he scores consistently.
Ollie took against him very early on and I think wholelly unfairly.
There is theme here - foreign players get a bad deal from Ollie. He's bit of a little Englander for me. Liked an old school English trier like Smith and is deeply suspicious of foreign players. The speaking English rubbish is used as a smoke-screen. Has done it over and over. Right back to Padula days. |
I agree that Sylla is our best forward. He just needs to toughen up a bit to Championship football and stop looking at the ref when he falls over. Just get up and get on with it! | | | |
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