| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 08:03 - Mar 2 with 3050 views | Dr_Winston |
What other choices does he have? Resignation. Resignation is a choice he has.
Chucking untested kids into a situation where the team is already demoralised, disorganised and hapless due to the eejit in charge is unlikely to improve the situation. There is only hope of improvement once he's gone. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 08:17 - Mar 2 with 2993 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Everything has a knock on effect.
The lower you finish, the less attractive the club becomes not only for acquisition proposes but also retention. Let’s be honest here, there is no process, it’s just a case of continuing to do the same thing and hoping we win. That’s essentially it.
Resignation is not an option either as suggested, why would he resign when his stock is at its lowest.
We need to finish as high up the league as possible and reset in the summer. New manager, new ways of doing things and being innovators again rather than trying to relive past eras. Football moves on and so should we.
Tiki taka in this manner was worked out long ago, that’s if this iteration ever existed that is. If you don’t evolve you get swallowed up. |  |
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| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 08:20 - Mar 2 with 3017 views | jack247 |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 08:17 - Mar 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
Everything has a knock on effect.
The lower you finish, the less attractive the club becomes not only for acquisition proposes but also retention. Let’s be honest here, there is no process, it’s just a case of continuing to do the same thing and hoping we win. That’s essentially it.
Resignation is not an option either as suggested, why would he resign when his stock is at its lowest.
We need to finish as high up the league as possible and reset in the summer. New manager, new ways of doing things and being innovators again rather than trying to relive past eras. Football moves on and so should we.
Tiki taka in this manner was worked out long ago, that’s if this iteration ever existed that is. If you don’t evolve you get swallowed up. |
Exactly why our owners should bite the bullet and do the right thing now. |  | | |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 08:33 - Mar 2 with 2998 views | swancity |
We do not have enough leaders out on that pitch as it is. Leaders of men. Experienced pros who can drag a team through a rough patch. Our players need to take responsibility, and work hard to get through this. Too many of them are underperforming. I’d also accept that confidence is low. And when it’s low, the way we play is even more dangerous.
Every club will introduce young players towards the end of the season once their fate is confirmed. We do have some promising young players although putting them in right now might not help them or the team. | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 08:40 - Mar 2 with 2964 views | Whiterockin |
I wouldn't play the youngsters, they would be like lambs to the slaughter. The manager and the current players have got us into this hole they have to get us out. Players leaving at the end of the season will be replaced, in some shape or form, the current crop of youngsters are not ready yet in my opinion. With Ben Davies, he had just come back from the summer tour of the USA and was getting more game minutes every week and was deemed ready to replace Taylor long term prior to Taylor getting injured, we have no youngsters in that position.
The best option would be to remove RM now and and give the new manager until the end of the season to take stock. Then we can push on in the summer, instead of panicking and doing everything in a rush.
But there again unless RM walks we are stuck with him until the end of his contract in my opinion. He has had an easy ride for too long, its time the supporters left in the stadium made it clear what we think of him, with crowds dwindling it will be easy for him to hear even a single voice close by, as he did on Monday. |  | | |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 09:00 - Mar 2 with 2919 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 08:20 - Mar 2 by jack247 |
Exactly why our owners should bite the bullet and do the right thing now. |
Depends who is available and willing to come.
No point in disrupting the squad even further if it had a negative affect making us finish even lower than we would with Martin here.
As much as I don’t rate him, he still had the ability to beat teams like Cardiff with this system. We need 7 more points.
Unless you have someone available and willing to come you wish to name? | |
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| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 09:28 - Mar 2 with 2881 views | jack247 |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 09:00 - Mar 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
Depends who is available and willing to come.
No point in disrupting the squad even further if it had a negative affect making us finish even lower than we would with Martin here.
As much as I don’t rate him, he still had the ability to beat teams like Cardiff with this system. We need 7 more points.
Unless you have someone available and willing to come you wish to name? |
Of course I don’t. I won’t be able to in July either. I couldn’t have named Cooper or Potter. Rodgers wouldn’t have been on my radar given his CV at the time. It’s not my job to recruit managers.
Relegation isn’t my concern, stagnation is. There won’t be many interested in the summer who wouldn’t be interested now, they will just cost more to prise away if they are already at a club. We won’t be paying big bucks for an established manager anyway, it’ll be of the Potter, Cooper, Martin ilk.
Pretty much for the reasons you’ve outlined above, wouldn’t it be worth paying a bit more to lift the malaise that looks like it’s spread to the team, give the new guy 10 competitive games to implement his style, work out which players suit it and identify targets for the summer?
Bring someone in pre season and it’ll be ‘give him time to bed in….’ just as it was with Martin. | | | |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 09:35 - Mar 2 with 2855 views | onehunglow |
Young players should fear him | |
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| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 09:57 - Mar 2 with 2812 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 09:28 - Mar 2 by jack247 |
Of course I don’t. I won’t be able to in July either. I couldn’t have named Cooper or Potter. Rodgers wouldn’t have been on my radar given his CV at the time. It’s not my job to recruit managers.
Relegation isn’t my concern, stagnation is. There won’t be many interested in the summer who wouldn’t be interested now, they will just cost more to prise away if they are already at a club. We won’t be paying big bucks for an established manager anyway, it’ll be of the Potter, Cooper, Martin ilk.
Pretty much for the reasons you’ve outlined above, wouldn’t it be worth paying a bit more to lift the malaise that looks like it’s spread to the team, give the new guy 10 competitive games to implement his style, work out which players suit it and identify targets for the summer?
Bring someone in pre season and it’ll be ‘give him time to bed in….’ just as it was with Martin. |
No reason why names can’t be mentioned, Potter and Cooper were both mentioned on here prior to taking the position. There were plenty of other names around too at the time. I don’t see anyone at the moment worth sacking Martin for.
Not sure what you mean by not many who will be interested in the summer that won’t now. Contracts end at the end of the season, there will be plenty who won’t want to leave their clubs until their contracts end. There are several reasons for that, many of them personal rather than professional, things will be geared up to staying the remainder of their contracts.
As you know, I don’t believe in this whole “takes time” stuff. I’d say you are probably looking 6 weeks max. Pre season is more than enough time to get everyone up to speed.
The next appointment is critical and can’t be rushed, which mid season appointments tend to be by their very nature. | |
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| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 10:31 - Mar 2 with 2785 views | jack247 |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 09:57 - Mar 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
No reason why names can’t be mentioned, Potter and Cooper were both mentioned on here prior to taking the position. There were plenty of other names around too at the time. I don’t see anyone at the moment worth sacking Martin for.
Not sure what you mean by not many who will be interested in the summer that won’t now. Contracts end at the end of the season, there will be plenty who won’t want to leave their clubs until their contracts end. There are several reasons for that, many of them personal rather than professional, things will be geared up to staying the remainder of their contracts.
As you know, I don’t believe in this whole “takes time” stuff. I’d say you are probably looking 6 weeks max. Pre season is more than enough time to get everyone up to speed.
The next appointment is critical and can’t be rushed, which mid season appointments tend to be by their very nature. |
I’ll have the new name before he’s appointed. Everyone will.
If we wanted the likes of the MK Dons or Ostersunds manager, they’d want to come. Their clubs would put up more resistance now than in the summer and rightly so.
They must have been at least considering Martins position for a long time and would have had contingency plans in case he either bombed or exceeded expectations and got poached. I’d be staggered if the club don’t have a shortlist of realistic candidates.
I’d argue that Martins appointment was one of the most rushed I can remember. Guidolin and Carvahal when we looked like being relegated apart. | | | |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 10:53 - Mar 2 with 2737 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 10:31 - Mar 2 by jack247 |
I’ll have the new name before he’s appointed. Everyone will.
If we wanted the likes of the MK Dons or Ostersunds manager, they’d want to come. Their clubs would put up more resistance now than in the summer and rightly so.
They must have been at least considering Martins position for a long time and would have had contingency plans in case he either bombed or exceeded expectations and got poached. I’d be staggered if the club don’t have a shortlist of realistic candidates.
I’d argue that Martins appointment was one of the most rushed I can remember. Guidolin and Carvahal when we looked like being relegated apart. |
Yep but plenty of names have been mentioned already, everyone knows who is out of work or doing well at smaller clubs. How do we know MK Dons manager would want to come to us? People treat this sort of stuff like a computer game, plenty of managers won’t want to come to us. Let’s not forget Martin was not our first choice and even Martin turned us down once according to reports.
Considering his position without question I would assume, but those discussions clearly haven’t brought about a conclusion where a suitable replacement can realistically be brought in, otherwise they would do it. | |
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| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 11:09 - Mar 2 with 2720 views | ARQS |
I wonder if someone like Cameron Toshack would do it until the end of the season. | | | |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 11:30 - Mar 2 with 2681 views | Whiterockin |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 11:09 - Mar 2 by ARQS |
I wonder if someone like Cameron Toshack would do it until the end of the season. |
The problem there is if RM was removed or put on gardening leave, the whole coaching set up would need to be changed. I don't believe its just a case of getting a head coach in until the end of the season and I don't see the benefit there anyway. | | | |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 11:39 - Mar 2 with 2667 views | KeithHaynes |
I think we have to understand he isn’t going anywhere unless there’s been a huge change of heart.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
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| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 11:48 - Mar 2 with 2639 views | KeithHaynes |
People ask about availability of other managers. Since the Americans have been calling the shots we have never appointed a run of the mill manager, and there’s been a few. The last three in the championship a point in case. Potter and Cooper to the majority were unheard of until they came to Swansea.
A new manager would see the Swans as attractive IMO. The club doesn’t sack quickly, they are offered time and space so there’s no chance of getting the boot after a month. That’s a positive for any new man and his team. My view though is if Martin does go ( or should I say when ) then the club will see it as another cost saving measure and promote from within saving even more money. The best we will get is another roll of the dice manager like Cooper or Potter looking to make his way in the game.
It may work, it may not, but anyone thinking Martin will resign now isn’t thinking this through. | |
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| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 11:51 - Mar 2 with 2635 views | Badlands |
Transfermarkt lists c 200 unattached manager with first tier experience whose career average is 1.5 points per game or higher and a further 120+ with second tier experience on 1.5 ppg or more.
While the likes of Thomas Tuchel might out of our price range there are literally dozens who we could afford. |  |
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| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 12:28 - Mar 2 with 2589 views | BryanSwan |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 09:28 - Mar 2 by jack247 |
Of course I don’t. I won’t be able to in July either. I couldn’t have named Cooper or Potter. Rodgers wouldn’t have been on my radar given his CV at the time. It’s not my job to recruit managers.
Relegation isn’t my concern, stagnation is. There won’t be many interested in the summer who wouldn’t be interested now, they will just cost more to prise away if they are already at a club. We won’t be paying big bucks for an established manager anyway, it’ll be of the Potter, Cooper, Martin ilk.
Pretty much for the reasons you’ve outlined above, wouldn’t it be worth paying a bit more to lift the malaise that looks like it’s spread to the team, give the new guy 10 competitive games to implement his style, work out which players suit it and identify targets for the summer?
Bring someone in pre season and it’ll be ‘give him time to bed in….’ just as it was with Martin. |
In regard to your last sentence, i think giving managers time to implement their tactics and bring in players is quite sensible. Whether that be over a year or 18 months, but the caveat is that there needs to be signs of progress.
Which 18 months down the line with Martin i do not think we have had. | |
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| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 12:45 - Mar 2 with 2559 views | jack247 |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 10:53 - Mar 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yep but plenty of names have been mentioned already, everyone knows who is out of work or doing well at smaller clubs. How do we know MK Dons manager would want to come to us? People treat this sort of stuff like a computer game, plenty of managers won’t want to come to us. Let’s not forget Martin was not our first choice and even Martin turned us down once according to reports.
Considering his position without question I would assume, but those discussions clearly haven’t brought about a conclusion where a suitable replacement can realistically be brought in, otherwise they would do it. |
Yeah, in the same way as Rodgers turned Liverpool down.
Plenty will want to come to us. We’re a championship club. Were a very attractive proposition to young, ambitious managers, which I assume is the road we will go down.
They should have a list of realistic managers they feel can achieve their objectives. If we wait for the perfect manager to become available, we may well start next season with Martin. | | | |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 13:12 - Mar 2 with 2484 views | onehunglow |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 12:45 - Mar 2 by jack247 |
Yeah, in the same way as Rodgers turned Liverpool down.
Plenty will want to come to us. We’re a championship club. Were a very attractive proposition to young, ambitious managers, which I assume is the road we will go down.
They should have a list of realistic managers they feel can achieve their objectives. If we wait for the perfect manager to become available, we may well start next season with Martin. |
What maddens me is the way our expectations have been cynically lowered .
We are a proud club with a relatively recent history of a solid enough Premiership league team who beat ,in its time,all be so called big clubs .
Too right we should be attractive
We need an enema though | |
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| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 13:17 - Mar 2 with 2493 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 12:45 - Mar 2 by jack247 |
Yeah, in the same way as Rodgers turned Liverpool down.
Plenty will want to come to us. We’re a championship club. Were a very attractive proposition to young, ambitious managers, which I assume is the road we will go down.
They should have a list of realistic managers they feel can achieve their objectives. If we wait for the perfect manager to become available, we may well start next season with Martin. |
If Swansea want to succeed with this philosophy then find a continental manager with a track record. Cooper claimed he as a possession based manger but was more of a pragmatist and a very successful one. He would get a tight 1-0 away win and say things like. "It was a good win. We did not want to play the way we wanted[because of a) the pitch b) the opposition c) the weather] but we are happy with 3 points. Excuses after a win are barely excuses at all. Cooper had no track record.
Marin had an undistinguished track record with no evidence of consistent success. His record was "patchy" and still is. In fact it has become "sub patchy" of late.
Certain club in Europe have the same philosophy as Swansea. I am no expert but Villa Real seem to have the same philosophy as Swansea hand a long track record of success including outplaying Man Utd last season. I recall Brendan wanting to bring in their Midfield orchestrator Senna a decade or so ago to help mimic Villareal.
Premeir league have routinely let Swansea develop rookie managers and buy them up using Huw Jenkins's nous in these matters.
I I was Winter or Silbverstein I would be scouring Europe for a possession based manger with at least 3 season of success but ffor whatever reason currently out of favour and keen to get back on track with soemthing to prove.
Martin's own attitude is keen to his own future. If in his next meeting he uses the "Youth " excuse and promises more of the same he should get his cards. If on the other hand he is open to a review and (an audit) of his two years and engage in new thinking and input then he might be given another 6 months. A new contract has to be earned. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 13:23 - Mar 2 with 2477 views | Whiterockin |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 13:12 - Mar 2 by onehunglow |
What maddens me is the way our expectations have been cynically lowered .
We are a proud club with a relatively recent history of a solid enough Premiership league team who beat ,in its time,all be so called big clubs .
Too right we should be attractive
We need an enema though |
It is true that we are an attractive proposition, recent Premier League club, fantastic facilities, a decent squad ect ect. Where we fall down is when any prospective new manager asks the question, what budget do I have available? This is why I believe we were rejected by candidates prior to the RM appointment. You have to balance the books by selling to buy doesn't always sit well. | | | |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 13:32 - Mar 2 with 2459 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 08:17 - Mar 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
Everything has a knock on effect.
The lower you finish, the less attractive the club becomes not only for acquisition proposes but also retention. Let’s be honest here, there is no process, it’s just a case of continuing to do the same thing and hoping we win. That’s essentially it.
Resignation is not an option either as suggested, why would he resign when his stock is at its lowest.
We need to finish as high up the league as possible and reset in the summer. New manager, new ways of doing things and being innovators again rather than trying to relive past eras. Football moves on and so should we.
Tiki taka in this manner was worked out long ago, that’s if this iteration ever existed that is. If you don’t evolve you get swallowed up. |
The whole point of tiki taka is you move the ball quickly. We don’t do that. Was watching the Bradford cup final the other day, of course you have to remember they were only a league 2 side but our 1 and 2 touch play was fantastic. Movement off the ball etc, the ball barely stopped moving for the 90 minutes. |  |
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| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 13:38 - Mar 2 with 2447 views | onehunglow |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 13:23 - Mar 2 by Whiterockin |
It is true that we are an attractive proposition, recent Premier League club, fantastic facilities, a decent squad ect ect. Where we fall down is when any prospective new manager asks the question, what budget do I have available? This is why I believe we were rejected by candidates prior to the RM appointment. You have to balance the books by selling to buy doesn't always sit well. |
Fair comment | |
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| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 13:44 - Mar 2 with 2446 views | KeithHaynes |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 13:32 - Mar 2 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
The whole point of tiki taka is you move the ball quickly. We don’t do that. Was watching the Bradford cup final the other day, of course you have to remember they were only a league 2 side but our 1 and 2 touch play was fantastic. Movement off the ball etc, the ball barely stopped moving for the 90 minutes. |
And players have admitted they held off getting a cricket score due to Bradford City's own professional pride.
Could have been 10-0. | |
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| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 14:49 - Mar 2 with 2376 views | jack247 |
| Has Russell Martin got any choice but to do this ? on 13:17 - Mar 2 by ReslovenSwan1 |
If Swansea want to succeed with this philosophy then find a continental manager with a track record. Cooper claimed he as a possession based manger but was more of a pragmatist and a very successful one. He would get a tight 1-0 away win and say things like. "It was a good win. We did not want to play the way we wanted[because of a) the pitch b) the opposition c) the weather] but we are happy with 3 points. Excuses after a win are barely excuses at all. Cooper had no track record.
Marin had an undistinguished track record with no evidence of consistent success. His record was "patchy" and still is. In fact it has become "sub patchy" of late.
Certain club in Europe have the same philosophy as Swansea. I am no expert but Villa Real seem to have the same philosophy as Swansea hand a long track record of success including outplaying Man Utd last season. I recall Brendan wanting to bring in their Midfield orchestrator Senna a decade or so ago to help mimic Villareal.
Premeir league have routinely let Swansea develop rookie managers and buy them up using Huw Jenkins's nous in these matters.
I I was Winter or Silbverstein I would be scouring Europe for a possession based manger with at least 3 season of success but ffor whatever reason currently out of favour and keen to get back on track with soemthing to prove.
Martin's own attitude is keen to his own future. If in his next meeting he uses the "Youth " excuse and promises more of the same he should get his cards. If on the other hand he is open to a review and (an audit) of his two years and engage in new thinking and input then he might be given another 6 months. A new contract has to be earned. |
We aren’t going to get a continental manager with a track record. They cost too much | | | |
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