| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 17:30 - Sep 21 with 4044 views | Kilkennyjack |
Why should Wales be ruled by Englands dreadful Torys…?
That would be akin to Russia making decisions for Ukraine.
The bully taunts the brave. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 17:49 - Sep 21 with 4033 views | Whiterockin |
It will be interesting to see if this gets the 100,000 signatures required for a debate in Westminster. Personally I doubt it, unless it gets the publicity on the news similar to the other petition. |  | | |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 17:53 - Sep 21 with 4021 views | Badgeman |
Good time to remind people that since devolution we’ve had two referendums affirming and enhancing the institution, no politician has ever been elected to the Senedd on an abolitionist platform, and the 7 elected politicians who changed their view to abolitionism all lost their seats at the last election. Also worth noting that Plaid and Labour both campaigned on expanding the Senedd in 2021 and increased their number of seats.
Abolitionists cry and moan but have been handily defeated at every election thus far. Have you tried campaigning and winning an election instead lads?
Remember that conservatives will gladly abandon democracy before they abandon conservatism. [Post edited 21 Sep 2023 17:56]
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| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 18:09 - Sep 21 with 3970 views | Badgeman |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 17:58 - Sep 21 by Whiterockin |
If that's the case what is there for the Senedd to worry about.  |
At this stage, absolutely nothing. The kind of mouth breathers who run the campaign to abolish the Senedd couldn’t run a bath. | |
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| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 18:15 - Sep 21 with 3966 views | Boundy |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 18:09 - Sep 21 by Badgeman |
At this stage, absolutely nothing. The kind of mouth breathers who run the campaign to abolish the Senedd couldn’t run a bath. |
and you know that to be true ? |  |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 18:16 - Sep 21 with 3968 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 17:53 - Sep 21 by Badgeman |
Good time to remind people that since devolution we’ve had two referendums affirming and enhancing the institution, no politician has ever been elected to the Senedd on an abolitionist platform, and the 7 elected politicians who changed their view to abolitionism all lost their seats at the last election. Also worth noting that Plaid and Labour both campaigned on expanding the Senedd in 2021 and increased their number of seats.
Abolitionists cry and moan but have been handily defeated at every election thus far. Have you tried campaigning and winning an election instead lads?
Remember that conservatives will gladly abandon democracy before they abandon conservatism. [Post edited 21 Sep 2023 17:56]
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Yeah the last referendum had a 35% turnout. No election has ever managed even a 50% turnout. A lot of people in Wales don't care about the Senedd it's just a shame they don't reflect their feelings by voting.
This is why we need change, someone new to vote for because if the tories are the only other option then what's the point in voting?
We hadn't even had a year of brexit and remainers were crying and moaning we should have a re-run. Well 20 years plus of the Senedd/WAG/Assembly so why not give us a say?
If the conservatives abandoned conservatism then they wouldn't be conservatives...make sense? | | | |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 18:18 - Sep 21 with 3966 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 17:30 - Sep 21 by Kilkennyjack |
Why should Wales be ruled by Englands dreadful Torys…?
That would be akin to Russia making decisions for Ukraine.
The bully taunts the brave. |
Well Wales should be ruled by whoever the majority wants. That's democracy for you. | | | |
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| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 18:30 - Sep 21 with 3947 views | johnlangy |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 18:18 - Sep 21 by SullutaCreturned |
Well Wales should be ruled by whoever the majority wants. That's democracy for you. |
This is perfectly correct cat.
But in your previous post you said 'Yeah the last referendum had a 35% turnout. No election has ever managed even a 50% turnout. A lot of people in Wales don't care about the Senedd it's just a shame they don't reflect their feelings by voting'.
This is also perfectly correct. It is a shame that there is not a better turnout for Senedd elections but whatever that turnout is the majority wins.
As you agree it should. | | | |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 18:48 - Sep 21 with 3922 views | raynor94 |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 17:30 - Sep 21 by Kilkennyjack |
Why should Wales be ruled by Englands dreadful Torys…?
That would be akin to Russia making decisions for Ukraine.
The bully taunts the brave. |
"Torys" What are they? |  |
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| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 19:42 - Sep 21 with 3904 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 18:30 - Sep 21 by johnlangy |
This is perfectly correct cat.
But in your previous post you said 'Yeah the last referendum had a 35% turnout. No election has ever managed even a 50% turnout. A lot of people in Wales don't care about the Senedd it's just a shame they don't reflect their feelings by voting'.
This is also perfectly correct. It is a shame that there is not a better turnout for Senedd elections but whatever that turnout is the majority wins.
As you agree it should. |
Yes, my point about the referendum was slightly different though. We had people saying 51% of a 72% turnout wasn't enough to take us out of the EU and yet 63% of a 35% turnout carries sway.
A tad hypocritical.
My belief is that if the brexit vote should have been re-run because of a tight winning margin then those that say it should also back another vote on devolution. The 35% turnout shows that the majority in Wales do not care about the Senedd. Those of us who are disenfranchised should be given a voice again.
Instead we see Labour about to change election rules which will make a mockery of democracy. | | | |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 21:15 - Sep 21 with 3873 views | Boundy |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 17:30 - Sep 21 by Kilkennyjack |
Why should Wales be ruled by Englands dreadful Torys…?
That would be akin to Russia making decisions for Ukraine.
The bully taunts the brave. |
So because Drakeford & co are in the main Welsh ,that gives them carte blanche to ruin this country ? | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 21:43 - Sep 21 with 3850 views | Badgeman |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 18:15 - Sep 21 by Boundy |
and you know that to be true ? |
Because they resoundingly lose every single time. Every single time. | |
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| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 21:46 - Sep 21 with 3848 views | Badgeman |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 18:16 - Sep 21 by SullutaCreturned |
Yeah the last referendum had a 35% turnout. No election has ever managed even a 50% turnout. A lot of people in Wales don't care about the Senedd it's just a shame they don't reflect their feelings by voting.
This is why we need change, someone new to vote for because if the tories are the only other option then what's the point in voting?
We hadn't even had a year of brexit and remainers were crying and moaning we should have a re-run. Well 20 years plus of the Senedd/WAG/Assembly so why not give us a say?
If the conservatives abandoned conservatism then they wouldn't be conservatives...make sense? |
So your argument is we should have a third devolution referendum because we didn’t have a second Brexit referendum? If turnout is lower then it should be easier for abolitionists to win, yet they lose every time.
If abolitionism was so popular they’d have something to show for it apart from endless crying on quiet corners of the internet. | |
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| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 21:48 - Sep 21 with 3835 views | Badgeman |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 21:15 - Sep 21 by Boundy |
So because Drakeford & co are in the main Welsh ,that gives them carte blanche to ruin this country ? |
That’s democracy. If you don’t like it, vote Drakeford out. If you’re that arsed about it, join a party and deliver some leaflets. | |
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| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 22:44 - Sep 21 with 3786 views | AnotherJohn |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 21:48 - Sep 21 by Badgeman |
That’s democracy. If you don’t like it, vote Drakeford out. If you’re that arsed about it, join a party and deliver some leaflets. |
What a depressing thread! Labour and Plaid are on a path that uses law to control more and more areas of behaviour they do not like. They turn away from persuasion and personal choice about risk in favour of legal sanctions and coercion. Yet the passive majority will keep voting for them. Smacking, speed limits and meal deals are just the thin end of the wedge. The WG transport policy provides a vision of the future that I really do not like. Private car ownership is something I expect to come under serious threat in a few years. If it takes voting Tory to put a spoke in the wheel of the control freaks who push these policies then I for one will do it. I say that as somebody who has only every actually been a card-carrying member of one party and that was Labour - but that was in the days when the party actually represented working people. | | | |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 06:20 - Sep 22 with 3745 views | Whiterockin |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 22:44 - Sep 21 by AnotherJohn |
What a depressing thread! Labour and Plaid are on a path that uses law to control more and more areas of behaviour they do not like. They turn away from persuasion and personal choice about risk in favour of legal sanctions and coercion. Yet the passive majority will keep voting for them. Smacking, speed limits and meal deals are just the thin end of the wedge. The WG transport policy provides a vision of the future that I really do not like. Private car ownership is something I expect to come under serious threat in a few years. If it takes voting Tory to put a spoke in the wheel of the control freaks who push these policies then I for one will do it. I say that as somebody who has only every actually been a card-carrying member of one party and that was Labour - but that was in the days when the party actually represented working people. |
I tend to agree. I never thought I would be voting Conservative any time soon, but if it the only option to give Labour and Plaid a bloody nose in my Senedd constituency I probably would. I'm still hoping for a strong Lib Dem or Independent candidate though. | | | |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 07:29 - Sep 22 with 3717 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 17:30 - Sep 21 by Kilkennyjack |
Why should Wales be ruled by Englands dreadful Torys…?
That would be akin to Russia making decisions for Ukraine.
The bully taunts the brave. |
Only Wales is not ruled by the English. The UK is a democracy and the vast majority of Welsh people wish to remain part of it.
You have never explained why you think Wales should leave the democratic UK and then apply to join the undemocratic EU.
The majority of Welsh people wish to remain in the UK and voted to leave the EU.
To compare the democratic UK to the war crimes of Russia in Ukraine really is a stupid comparison. | |
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| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 07:47 - Sep 22 with 3702 views | AnotherJohn |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 07:29 - Sep 22 by felixstowe_jack |
Only Wales is not ruled by the English. The UK is a democracy and the vast majority of Welsh people wish to remain part of it.
You have never explained why you think Wales should leave the democratic UK and then apply to join the undemocratic EU.
The majority of Welsh people wish to remain in the UK and voted to leave the EU.
To compare the democratic UK to the war crimes of Russia in Ukraine really is a stupid comparison. |
Our Irish friend has also never explained why he is so keen on the EU when the imposition of the excessive deficit procedure in the 2009-16 period had a devastating impact on state health budgets in the Republic, leading to a situation where it has the highest level of private health insurance in the EU. Yes, big business benefitted from subsidies and the EU's permissive stance towards the Republic's tax regime, but the less well off suffer from a two-tier healthcare system, [Post edited 22 Sep 2023 7:48]
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| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 09:03 - Sep 22 with 3687 views | Boundy |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 21:48 - Sep 21 by Badgeman |
That’s democracy. If you don’t like it, vote Drakeford out. If you’re that arsed about it, join a party and deliver some leaflets. |
What leaflets would they be , Tandoori Nights special offer ? | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 10:23 - Sep 22 with 3668 views | Badgeman |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 09:03 - Sep 22 by Boundy |
What leaflets would they be , Tandoori Nights special offer ? |
Leaflets stating why you’d want to abolish the assembly. Or does that sound like too much hard work? | |
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| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 12:55 - Sep 22 with 3626 views | johnlangy |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 19:42 - Sep 21 by SullutaCreturned |
Yes, my point about the referendum was slightly different though. We had people saying 51% of a 72% turnout wasn't enough to take us out of the EU and yet 63% of a 35% turnout carries sway.
A tad hypocritical.
My belief is that if the brexit vote should have been re-run because of a tight winning margin then those that say it should also back another vote on devolution. The 35% turnout shows that the majority in Wales do not care about the Senedd. Those of us who are disenfranchised should be given a voice again.
Instead we see Labour about to change election rules which will make a mockery of democracy. |
By changing election rules I imagine you mean votes for 16 year olds and changing to a PR system.
There are many good arguments against votes for 16 year olds so it may be a bad idea. But, as regards PR, when so many complain that the system is broken (FPTP) by definition they are saying it should be changed. PR would be one way of doing that. It could be argued that they are the only progressive government in the UK for proposing it.
I don't understand why you say this makes a mockery of democracy. A government's job is to try to improve all aspects of life in the country they run. They put forward proposals which are then debated, amended, debated again until a final bill is put forward. In their 2021 manifesto they said
'in the next Senedd we will lead Wales in a national civic conversation about our constitutional future. We will build on the work of the Senedd Committee on electoral reform and develop proposals to improve the representation of the people of Wales in their Parliament'.
To me that shows that they are doing what they said they'd do, unlike many governments. And the bill will only pass with a super majority of 40 out of 60 Senedd members voting for it.
That sounds exactly like democracy to me. | | | |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 13:11 - Sep 22 with 3612 views | blackswan |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 21:48 - Sep 21 by Badgeman |
That’s democracy. If you don’t like it, vote Drakeford out. If you’re that arsed about it, join a party and deliver some leaflets. |
let's hope enough people realise the damage the assembly is doing to wales and vote labour out. We have a road system suitable for the 1960's but we in wales don't need new roads including by-passing Newport. What companies will come to Wales to invest and replace all the jobs that will be lost in port Talbot Trostre contracting companies and supply chain | | | |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 13:15 - Sep 22 with 3602 views | blackswan |
Also worth debating the state of the Welsh NHS and education falling far behind other areas. I have supported Labour all my life next election will be the first time voting tory | | | |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 13:32 - Sep 22 with 3592 views | Badgeman |
| Time to get rid of the whole Cardiff Bay shebang on 13:15 - Sep 22 by blackswan |
Also worth debating the state of the Welsh NHS and education falling far behind other areas. I have supported Labour all my life next election will be the first time voting tory |
You think the Tories are going to fix the Welsh NHS? They are even more clueless than Labour.
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