| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" 09:45 - Jun 5 with 7741 views | Konk |
https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/04/manchester-city-launch-
If Abu Dhabi Carpet Showrooms want to pay £300m a season to have some adverts by the hand driers in the bogs at Man City, why should Man City have to turn that down? If the Abu Dhabi Auto repairs centre wants to pay £500m to sponsor Phil Foden's away socks, then shouldn't they be able to? Market forces and all that.
I'm wishing Man City all the best in their noble struggle against "the tyranny of the majority" Why should a club's autocratic, authoritarian owners have to operate in anything vaguely resembling a democracy? Given that the 7 richest PL clubs can veto any proposal from the others, and can use their influence to force through changes, you could argue that the majority aren't actually operating much of a tyranny.
I really, really, really hate the Premier League, and I really, really, really hate what Man City have become. A club I have always had a soft spot for, and I found myself in the very, very weird position of being almost desperate for Manchester fu cking United(!) to beat them in the cup final. And that was almost universal amongst my mates, all of whom hate Man Utd.
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| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 15:22 - Jun 5 with 2352 views | slmrstid |
The thing with Man City is it isn't just spending as much as you want, its (in my opinion) bringing in money to the club by fraud by getting companies associated with the owners spending well over market value amounts in the guise of "sponsorship".
In the normal business world, there are tax laws that outlaw that sort of activity. In football it just seems fair game and no-one cares.
Lets not forget its not that many years ago that Sheffield Wednesday were sponsored by a taxi company owned by Chansiri that didn't actually own any taxis, or operate an actual taxi business, or trade in any way at all, and nothing came of that either. |  | | |
| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 15:36 - Jun 5 with 2294 views | Juzzie |
Football spending hasn't been fair for as long as I can remember, it's nothing new.
What has happened is the self styled big clubs don't want pesky clubs like Wimbledon, QPR, Norwich etc being successful by virtue of a sugar daddy (or mummy) so FFP came in and blocked that.
This whole notion that FFP is there to protect clubs is bollox. There are other ways this can be done. As said, have it that owners can't saddle debt onto the club. If they want to blow £500m of their own money then fine, but it must be their loss, not the clubs. Then let them spend what they like.
The love-in for Man City will soon wane. THey'll end up becoming despised in the future just in the same way we currently despise Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool etc. |  | | |
| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 15:42 - Jun 5 with 2281 views | MedwayR |
| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 15:22 - Jun 5 by slmrstid |
The thing with Man City is it isn't just spending as much as you want, its (in my opinion) bringing in money to the club by fraud by getting companies associated with the owners spending well over market value amounts in the guise of "sponsorship".
In the normal business world, there are tax laws that outlaw that sort of activity. In football it just seems fair game and no-one cares.
Lets not forget its not that many years ago that Sheffield Wednesday were sponsored by a taxi company owned by Chansiri that didn't actually own any taxis, or operate an actual taxi business, or trade in any way at all, and nothing came of that either. |
If FFP disappeared you wouldn’t get clubs fiddling sponsorship deals to get around rules.
The Sheffield Wednesday situation was cleared because it was benchmarked against other clubs sponsorship deals and deemed to be in line with them so Sheffield Wednesday hadn’t got any advantage from it. |  |
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| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 15:56 - Jun 5 with 2236 views | mikeygunn |
I hate Man City so I’m biased.
I’m no fan of FFP, but I do wonder what state we would be in without it. It has forced us to cut our cloth accordingly and in the next few years will be sustainable (possibly) as a business. |  | | |
| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 20:42 - Jun 5 with 2066 views | Paddyhoops |
Football has basically eaten itself |  | | |
| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 20:59 - Jun 5 with 2030 views | vanrrrr |
"Tryanny of the majority" aka democracy
Hate what City have become but I do not think you can successfully regulate it the way it is In any walk of life these days the mega rich can do basically what they like and get away with it by weight of lawyers to overwhelm the FA or whoever maybe trying to enforce regs. I read in The Times article yesterday that so far City have dropped 25m on legal fees and have some of the highest powered briefs in the country on the books
I'd have let them all Pish off to a Super League where they can pay what they want, and do whatever deals they want , play other nation state/mega clubs every week. meanwhile reform English football with a regulator in place and reset...everyone a winner...instead we get death by a thousand cuts. | | | |
| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 07:30 - Jun 6 with 1802 views | BrianMcCarthy |
I don't see much difference between what City have done and what we did. We both cheated; City just did it better.
And I don't have a problem with ownership by Emirati individuals; we are part-owned and run by Americans after all, and among that Country's list of tricks is the funding of the Gazan genocide. Sportswashing by a Nation is a problem, but I'm not sure how it could ever be successfully legislated against even if the desire was there.
FFP, however, is simply unfair, and should be replaced by a wage cap and ringfencing. |  |
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| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 07:45 - Jun 6 with 1788 views | BSERs |
| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 09:58 - Jun 5 by GaryBannister86 |
Didn't we always think it would come to this? Football ruled by who has the most powerful lawyers - what a mess. They all cheat at FFP, Chelsea, Man U, everyone. Hate all the big clubs, always have done, but it is all beyond the pale now.
I want us to get promoted, of course I do, but there's no doubt the Championship best reflects football of when we fell in love with it. |
Couldnt agree more. In my world I want QPR to win the Championship...and then defend the title the following year. | | | |
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| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 09:15 - Jun 6 with 1665 views | Andybrat |
| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 11:41 - Jun 5 by Ned_Kennedys |
If I was a vintage Manchester City fan who was there when they were a serial underperformer overshadowed by their neighbours then I’d be appalled by the soulless monster they have become.
However I’m not and the Premier League have allowed this to happen for the obscene love of money so are now reaping what they sowed. The likes of Chelsea, Liverpool and Manchester United would do exactly the same thing if they were able to I’m sure.
The sooner they all feck off to a Super Duper Europop Big Boy League the better. |
Spot on | | | |
| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 09:35 - Jun 6 with 1649 views | Konk |
| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 07:30 - Jun 6 by BrianMcCarthy |
I don't see much difference between what City have done and what we did. We both cheated; City just did it better.
And I don't have a problem with ownership by Emirati individuals; we are part-owned and run by Americans after all, and among that Country's list of tricks is the funding of the Gazan genocide. Sportswashing by a Nation is a problem, but I'm not sure how it could ever be successfully legislated against even if the desire was there.
FFP, however, is simply unfair, and should be replaced by a wage cap and ringfencing. |
You're not owned by the US Govt, though, Brian. You're part-owned by US citizens who may/may not agree with US foreign policy. It's a completely different kettle of fish when a club is state-owned. | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 09:57 - Jun 6 with 1574 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 09:35 - Jun 6 by Konk |
You're not owned by the US Govt, though, Brian. You're part-owned by US citizens who may/may not agree with US foreign policy. It's a completely different kettle of fish when a club is state-owned. |
Accept that, Konk. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
I'd have no problem if it was individuals. The problem the football authorities have, though, is proving that Man. City is owned by a State and not by individuals who also form part of the State. I'm not sure how State ownership can be proven in court, and therefore stopped. | |
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| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 10:03 - Jun 6 with 1561 views | Antti_Heinola |
Not usually a Barney Ronay fan, but great and depressing article by him today in the Guardian.
Very hard to have much positivity about the future or the world at the moment. Feels like the mother of all world wars is brewing, and football is on a bit of a precipice. |  |
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| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 10:24 - Jun 6 with 1524 views | TheChef |
| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 10:03 - Jun 6 by Antti_Heinola |
Not usually a Barney Ronay fan, but great and depressing article by him today in the Guardian.
Very hard to have much positivity about the future or the world at the moment. Feels like the mother of all world wars is brewing, and football is on a bit of a precipice. |
Cheer up and don't read/watch the news  |  |
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| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 10:26 - Jun 6 with 1523 views | Maggsinho |
| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 10:03 - Jun 6 by Antti_Heinola |
Not usually a Barney Ronay fan, but great and depressing article by him today in the Guardian.
Very hard to have much positivity about the future or the world at the moment. Feels like the mother of all world wars is brewing, and football is on a bit of a precipice. |
Although if we are on the brink of the mother of all world wars how many millions City have to spend probably won't be our main concern, so there is that. |  | | |
| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 11:35 - Jun 6 with 1427 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 10:26 - Jun 6 by Maggsinho |
Although if we are on the brink of the mother of all world wars how many millions City have to spend probably won't be our main concern, so there is that. |
very true! | |
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| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 12:27 - Jun 6 with 1332 views | Rodney |
Personally, I am flabbergasted by Manchester City’s claim to be suffering under the “tyranny of the majority” (misusing John Stuart Mill’s memorable line). Having just won the latest of four consecutive Premier League titles, if they can’t see the irony in that assertion, then they occupy a different planet to me. And if the poor lambs see four Premier League titles as some form of persecution, I’d like a little dash of that persecution for QPR, please. I’m hoping that a clear-minded judge will summarily laugh them out of court. What City want, of course, is to make sure they win the next four Premier League titles and the next four after that and….
Clearly, City’s greedy owners and their myopic supporters want even more money and even more dominance. Whilst this may suit Abu Dhabi’s underlying objective of sports-washing their autocratic and cruel regime, it does nothing for the competitiveness of the Premier League. FFP, for all its faults and under which QPR have rightly suffered, does tend to ensure that we generally have a competitive Premier League rather than the monopolies, or oligopolies, that dominate most of the other European leagues.
Unlike some on this forum, I cannot even remotely share the glee that Manchester City winning the title at least deprives some other hated clubs from doing so. Despite being a QPR supporter since 1967, I have none of the tribalism that would condition me to hate the likes of Man United, Leeds, Chelsea etc. Instead, I wanted Arsenal to beat Man City in the season just gone. I want teams like Leicester to be able to pull off the surprise win of 2015/16. And I have delighted in the success of underdogs like Brighton and Brentford. I dream that QPR might have that same success one day, although I rather confusingly maintain that the Championship increasingly seems to be the home of real football nowadays rather than the Hollywood drama that is the Premier League. To stymie all those upstarts, Manchester City now merely want to cement their position at the top of the pile. Money talks.
If City’s protestations were not so serious, they would be laughable. I’m tempted to think this is just a smoke screen, or rather a negotiating tactic, to help them to deal with the 115 alleged breaches that have been hanging over them (for far too long, thanks to their own disingenuous and delaying tactics). Like playground bullies, they have employed the nuclear option of a hugely expensive legal action to defend the indefensible.
The Premier League is itself a club of clubs. It has rules decided by a democratic majority. If Manchester City don’t like the rules, they should leave. Or be thrown out. | | | |
| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 08:54 - Jun 7 with 996 views | bosh67 |
However, the owners of City have more money than God and vastly outgun the Premiership financially to defend their position. Whereas I agree that clubs can't just break rules and buy their way out the Premiership and the FA should be very cautious with this because they could find themselves being wiped out in the process and then what? So much as I don't like the posturing and such by City I also think that perhaps it is about time someone took the authorities on at their own game. They created these monsters and if they're not careful they'll get eaten by one of them. |  |
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| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 10:32 - Jun 7 with 876 views | hubble |
| Man City - "Tryanny of the majority" on 12:27 - Jun 6 by Rodney |
Personally, I am flabbergasted by Manchester City’s claim to be suffering under the “tyranny of the majority” (misusing John Stuart Mill’s memorable line). Having just won the latest of four consecutive Premier League titles, if they can’t see the irony in that assertion, then they occupy a different planet to me. And if the poor lambs see four Premier League titles as some form of persecution, I’d like a little dash of that persecution for QPR, please. I’m hoping that a clear-minded judge will summarily laugh them out of court. What City want, of course, is to make sure they win the next four Premier League titles and the next four after that and….
Clearly, City’s greedy owners and their myopic supporters want even more money and even more dominance. Whilst this may suit Abu Dhabi’s underlying objective of sports-washing their autocratic and cruel regime, it does nothing for the competitiveness of the Premier League. FFP, for all its faults and under which QPR have rightly suffered, does tend to ensure that we generally have a competitive Premier League rather than the monopolies, or oligopolies, that dominate most of the other European leagues.
Unlike some on this forum, I cannot even remotely share the glee that Manchester City winning the title at least deprives some other hated clubs from doing so. Despite being a QPR supporter since 1967, I have none of the tribalism that would condition me to hate the likes of Man United, Leeds, Chelsea etc. Instead, I wanted Arsenal to beat Man City in the season just gone. I want teams like Leicester to be able to pull off the surprise win of 2015/16. And I have delighted in the success of underdogs like Brighton and Brentford. I dream that QPR might have that same success one day, although I rather confusingly maintain that the Championship increasingly seems to be the home of real football nowadays rather than the Hollywood drama that is the Premier League. To stymie all those upstarts, Manchester City now merely want to cement their position at the top of the pile. Money talks.
If City’s protestations were not so serious, they would be laughable. I’m tempted to think this is just a smoke screen, or rather a negotiating tactic, to help them to deal with the 115 alleged breaches that have been hanging over them (for far too long, thanks to their own disingenuous and delaying tactics). Like playground bullies, they have employed the nuclear option of a hugely expensive legal action to defend the indefensible.
The Premier League is itself a club of clubs. It has rules decided by a democratic majority. If Manchester City don’t like the rules, they should leave. Or be thrown out. |
Nicely put, but a pedant's point of order: De Tocqueville used the phrase "the tyranny of the majority" before JS Mill - but it's no surprise Mill used it and developed it - and popularised it, as he was profoundly influenced by De Tocqueville - indeed, they were friends.
From the WIki entry on the phrase: "The origin of the term "tyranny of the majority" is commonly attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville, who used it in his book Democracy in America."
Although I have discovered from reading that Wiki that in fact John Adams used it earlier, and widely, first recorded in 1788.
Anyway, it's a joy to be able to have erudite discussion on here, one of the reasons I enjoy this forum so much. But apologies for the aside: as you were everyone! |  |
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