| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread 23:10 - Jun 25 with 25018 views | Ned_Kennedys |
We’ve had three match threads from a Southgate fan and three terrible England performances so surely it’s time to have one from a Southgate critic?
Walker switched to LB, TAA in at right back, Bellingham dropped back next to Rice, Foden central, Gordon on the left and Palmer on the right. Come on Gareth: you can do it! [Post edited 27 Jun 15:28]
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 13:38 - Jul 1 with 1158 views | londonscottish |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 11:50 - Jul 1 by Antti_Heinola |
I think we do have width. What we don't have is cohesion. Look at spain and how every time they have it there are four or five players within a few yards ready for a pass. Our biggest problem is the gaps between all of our players. All standing miles away from one another, no options given. Every time we get it, Saka is on the touchline, Foden is usually on the touchline. The width is there, but the movement of the ball isn't quick enough because the gaps between players are so big. |
God yeah, I caught a few minutes of Spain Georgia and what a massive contrast.
Yes, England move the ball so slowly and don't see to be able to move in numbers. Scotland were the same; well a lot worse actually. The gaps against Germany were horrific at times.
I've watched seven Scotland & England games now and can't say I'm looking forward to the eighth. It's like a form of mental torture.
Roll on the start of next season. [Post edited 1 Jul 13:40]
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 13:51 - Jul 1 with 1086 views | Logman |
We are not going to fix it now. Just have to hope that our huff and puff somehow gets us over the line against the Swiss. The players who came on did well. He needs to have more faith in his squad and remove players earlier if they are struggling, e.g. Trippier, Foden. I hope he is not going to take any credit for yesterday. That we won was completely in spite of Southgate and not because of him. |  | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 14:08 - Jul 1 with 1029 views | cyprusmel |
Whatever his next line up is going to be, In my opinion he must include Palmer from the start. | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 14:13 - Jul 1 with 975 views | CiderwithRsie |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 11:50 - Jul 1 by Antti_Heinola |
I think we do have width. What we don't have is cohesion. Look at spain and how every time they have it there are four or five players within a few yards ready for a pass. Our biggest problem is the gaps between all of our players. All standing miles away from one another, no options given. Every time we get it, Saka is on the touchline, Foden is usually on the touchline. The width is there, but the movement of the ball isn't quick enough because the gaps between players are so big. |
Exactly this.
I genuinely think we owe a debt to Southgate since 2016. He took over a team with no culture or spirit, and God knows we were lucky to get him instead of Allardyce. He's delivered qualification for tournament more or less as routine, (which it should be, but wasn't) and has regularly got us further into tournaments than anyone except Ramsey, Venables and Robson, and done it more often even than them.
But.
Currently we're awful to watch. I'd watch Marti's QPR over this lot every time. And it's not a matter of winning ugly, we're barely winning at all.
I don't know if they're shagged out after the English season, carrying injuries, messed up by (in some cases) playing out of position, lacking motivation or just don't understand the system, but one way or another players way more talented than QPR and generally more talented than the opposition (so far) look slower both physically and in their thinking than every team we play.
I don't think Southgate is crap, I think he's very good at some things, but those aren't the things England need to take a step up right now. You can never tell in a knock-out competition, but I don't think we're in the top four sides in this tournament. | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 14:19 - Jul 1 with 949 views | Rangersw12 |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 14:13 - Jul 1 by CiderwithRsie |
Exactly this.
I genuinely think we owe a debt to Southgate since 2016. He took over a team with no culture or spirit, and God knows we were lucky to get him instead of Allardyce. He's delivered qualification for tournament more or less as routine, (which it should be, but wasn't) and has regularly got us further into tournaments than anyone except Ramsey, Venables and Robson, and done it more often even than them.
But.
Currently we're awful to watch. I'd watch Marti's QPR over this lot every time. And it's not a matter of winning ugly, we're barely winning at all.
I don't know if they're shagged out after the English season, carrying injuries, messed up by (in some cases) playing out of position, lacking motivation or just don't understand the system, but one way or another players way more talented than QPR and generally more talented than the opposition (so far) look slower both physically and in their thinking than every team we play.
I don't think Southgate is crap, I think he's very good at some things, but those aren't the things England need to take a step up right now. You can never tell in a knock-out competition, but I don't think we're in the top four sides in this tournament. |
Bar Spain everyone looks pretty average to me
We've got a great chance to get to another final | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 14:28 - Jul 1 with 893 views | CiderwithRsie |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 14:19 - Jul 1 by Rangersw12 |
Bar Spain everyone looks pretty average to me
We've got a great chance to get to another final |
Spain look the dog's wotsits but Austria have been very good and I'm afraid the Germans are belying a lot of the comments they got pre-tournament, so I'd definitely have those ahead of us. The Swiss have also been more than decent.
France have been mediocre but if they start playing would be a threat.
Still, fact is that we're in the quarters and France, Austria, Belgium, the Dutch etc aren't yet and Italy are out. So who knows? | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 14:29 - Jul 1 with 885 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 11:50 - Jul 1 by Antti_Heinola |
I think we do have width. What we don't have is cohesion. Look at spain and how every time they have it there are four or five players within a few yards ready for a pass. Our biggest problem is the gaps between all of our players. All standing miles away from one another, no options given. Every time we get it, Saka is on the touchline, Foden is usually on the touchline. The width is there, but the movement of the ball isn't quick enough because the gaps between players are so big. |
England do not have width on the left. Merely standing on the touchline doesn't give you this. When Trippier receives the ball he tends to cut in or pass backwards. He hasn't the confidence to open his body up and play a ball down the flank with his left foot. Foden will make the run but by the time Trippier has sorted his feet the opportunity to play in behind is lost. This has played into the opposition's hands as they tend to set up in a narrow, low block to squeeze space in the middle of the park. Result - England just keep playing it from side-to-side looking for gaps in-field that will rarely appear. |  | | |
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 14:40 - Jul 1 with 835 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 13:51 - Jul 1 by Logman |
We are not going to fix it now. Just have to hope that our huff and puff somehow gets us over the line against the Swiss. The players who came on did well. He needs to have more faith in his squad and remove players earlier if they are struggling, e.g. Trippier, Foden. I hope he is not going to take any credit for yesterday. That we won was completely in spite of Southgate and not because of him. |
The subs have shown that it is fixable but Southgate won't change it because he's stubborn. Rather than change the formation and/or starting 11, Gareth appears to be banking on Shaw making a recovery to bring much needed balance to the team. In the meantime, England are stumbling their way through the competition. Given that we're 5 days away from the next game, all eyes will be on Luke in training. If he does feature, it'll be a massive gamble as he hasn't played a competitive match in months and, with Guehi suspended, will have another new entry alongside him. | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 15:15 - Jul 1 with 764 views | ParkRoyalR |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 12:39 - Jul 1 by Antti_Heinola |
Eze should never have been there, but on the contrary, he defended those two instances well, and did enough to put off the bloke for the big chance. Thought he played really well overall.
The stuff about what money he's on is meaningless. It's up to the FA what they pay Wiegman, not Southgate. What's the PM's salary got to do with the price of rice?
Brooking's root and branch restructuring of the game over a decade ago has meant us producing more technically sound players than at any point in the last 50 years. |
Agree thought Eze played well but was wrong side of his man for that gilt-edged chance which was a really poor miss.
If you're not up to the task, taking £5m quid is criminal, especially when you look at his CV, he's no Carlo Ancelotti and would be unlikely to be offered a job by the Top 20 teams in the country, so who agreed £5m was reflective of his value in the market?
I would have thought the influx of money & foreign coaches & players is the reason why the technical levels of our players has improved, but we are still below other European nations, as seen last night with a team who have barely a left foot between them. | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 15:28 - Jul 1 with 734 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 15:15 - Jul 1 by ParkRoyalR |
Agree thought Eze played well but was wrong side of his man for that gilt-edged chance which was a really poor miss.
If you're not up to the task, taking £5m quid is criminal, especially when you look at his CV, he's no Carlo Ancelotti and would be unlikely to be offered a job by the Top 20 teams in the country, so who agreed £5m was reflective of his value in the market?
I would have thought the influx of money & foreign coaches & players is the reason why the technical levels of our players has improved, but we are still below other European nations, as seen last night with a team who have barely a left foot between them. |
Southgate will get an FA position when he eventually moves on: he won’t get a Premier League job.
I’d be very p1ssed off if he got the QPR job: it would be back to the Hasselbaink days in terms of style of football. | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 15:35 - Jul 1 with 723 views | kensalriser |
Come on, Southgate would definitely get offered a PL job if he were interested (which I don't think he will be). |  |
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 15:50 - Jul 1 with 658 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 15:28 - Jul 1 by Ned_Kennedys |
Southgate will get an FA position when he eventually moves on: he won’t get a Premier League job.
I’d be very p1ssed off if he got the QPR job: it would be back to the Hasselbaink days in terms of style of football. |
Southgate has Hasselbaink on his England coaching staff. Little wonder the team is so defensive. | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 15:58 - Jul 1 with 633 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 15:35 - Jul 1 by kensalriser |
Come on, Southgate would definitely get offered a PL job if he were interested (which I don't think he will be). |
He really wouldn’t. Even if it was reported a club was interested fan pressure against it would be intense. | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 16:15 - Jul 1 with 593 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Three different Premiership clubs had Tony Pulis as their manager.
Southgate will absolutely manage in the Premiership if he wants to. |  | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 16:22 - Jul 1 with 566 views | Rangersw12 |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 14:28 - Jul 1 by CiderwithRsie |
Spain look the dog's wotsits but Austria have been very good and I'm afraid the Germans are belying a lot of the comments they got pre-tournament, so I'd definitely have those ahead of us. The Swiss have also been more than decent.
France have been mediocre but if they start playing would be a threat.
Still, fact is that we're in the quarters and France, Austria, Belgium, the Dutch etc aren't yet and Italy are out. So who knows? |
If we can't beat Switzerland, then one of Romania , Dutch Turkey or Austria to get to the final then we might as well give up | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 16:29 - Jul 1 with 551 views | paulparker |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 15:35 - Jul 1 by kensalriser |
Come on, Southgate would definitely get offered a PL job if he were interested (which I don't think he will be). |
Name one current Premier league team who would take him
Whoever would be stupid enough to employ him their fanbase would have a melt down
Its not just this tournament but our form up to it has been poor I’m struggling to think of an England game where we have bossed the opposition with quick attacking play |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 16:45 - Jul 1 with 527 views | paulparker |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 16:15 - Jul 1 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Three different Premiership clubs had Tony Pulis as their manager.
Southgate will absolutely manage in the Premiership if he wants to. |
I can’t see Gareth ball taking off in the premier league | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 16:58 - Jul 1 with 501 views | daveB |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 16:29 - Jul 1 by paulparker |
Name one current Premier league team who would take him
Whoever would be stupid enough to employ him their fanbase would have a melt down
Its not just this tournament but our form up to it has been poor I’m struggling to think of an England game where we have bossed the opposition with quick attacking play |
If England continue as they are you are right he won't get a job, if they get to the final that would be 1 semi final and 2 finals in his 8 years so he'd have a chance, far worse managers have got jobs in that league. Hodgson made a right mess of England in the end and walked into several jobs |  | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 16:58 - Jul 1 with 498 views | lassel |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 11:50 - Jul 1 by Antti_Heinola |
I think we do have width. What we don't have is cohesion. Look at spain and how every time they have it there are four or five players within a few yards ready for a pass. Our biggest problem is the gaps between all of our players. All standing miles away from one another, no options given. Every time we get it, Saka is on the touchline, Foden is usually on the touchline. The width is there, but the movement of the ball isn't quick enough because the gaps between players are so big. |
I usually agree with you on most things AH but on this one I think you’re wrong - one of the many glaring issues has been that everytime Foden gets the ball he wants to come inside. Everytime Saka gets it he wants to come inside - ironically one of the few times Saka has gone outside it’s actually created a goal…
Now of course this is exacerbated by Trippier never getting on beyond Foden and whenever he receives the ball in the attacking third telegraphing that he’s coming inside but also Walker not being allowed to bomb on as much as he does for City.
Against Switzerland it might actually be better to start Bowen and Gordon to target their 3 at the back system, but of course Southgate won’t, it’ll be Foden and Palmer/Saka again. | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 17:02 - Jul 1 with 484 views | daveB |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 15:15 - Jul 1 by ParkRoyalR |
Agree thought Eze played well but was wrong side of his man for that gilt-edged chance which was a really poor miss.
If you're not up to the task, taking £5m quid is criminal, especially when you look at his CV, he's no Carlo Ancelotti and would be unlikely to be offered a job by the Top 20 teams in the country, so who agreed £5m was reflective of his value in the market?
I would have thought the influx of money & foreign coaches & players is the reason why the technical levels of our players has improved, but we are still below other European nations, as seen last night with a team who have barely a left foot between them. |
England paid Capello more and he was hopeless
Hodgson was on similar, that's the salary for that job
What managers and players are paid is insane these days but he's on paper one of our most successful England managers ever | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 17:07 - Jul 1 with 452 views | londonscottish |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 16:29 - Jul 1 by paulparker |
Name one current Premier league team who would take him
Whoever would be stupid enough to employ him their fanbase would have a melt down
Its not just this tournament but our form up to it has been poor I’m struggling to think of an England game where we have bossed the opposition with quick attacking play |
The Belgium friendly showed how this England squad can do the swashbuckling attack.
Leaky as fk8c at the back of course.
2-2 but actually fun to watch. | |
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 17:11 - Jul 1 with 440 views | Juzzie |
I've tried be be supportive of Southgate as his record over the last three tournaments has been better than anyone else in living memory.
However, it has been a really hard watch this time around. Are the players actually not that good (PL/media hype)?, are they good but just not 'clicking' as a team? Could another Manager get better out of them... tactics/formations etc? Is Southgate actually not that good? and so on....
All I know is we've done the same kind of thing as France did prior to them winning stuff in that the whole set up and development of players over the last decade or two has been geared up to this point.... to win things. Except unlike France we haven't won anything yet.
I have no expectations that we should be winning everything in sight but we do have a good bunch of players than have had for such a long time but something just isn't clicking. |  | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 17:25 - Jul 1 with 395 views | ParkRoyalR |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 17:02 - Jul 1 by daveB |
England paid Capello more and he was hopeless
Hodgson was on similar, that's the salary for that job
What managers and players are paid is insane these days but he's on paper one of our most successful England managers ever |
I get that, and arguably Capello in particular and Hodgson had decent CV's, but Southgate has done nothing in management to justify that wage,
How the FA justify this with price of tickets for Wembley internationals etc is beyond me, but as you say, sanity does'nt come into it. | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 17:38 - Jul 1 with 348 views | kensalriser |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 16:29 - Jul 1 by paulparker |
Name one current Premier league team who would take him
Whoever would be stupid enough to employ him their fanbase would have a melt down
Its not just this tournament but our form up to it has been poor I’m struggling to think of an England game where we have bossed the opposition with quick attacking play |
Any bottom half club would take him.
Wayne Rooney got another Championship gig and their fans applauded it.
All hypothetical as I can't see him returning to club management. | |
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