| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 07:08 - Sep 20 with 9182 views | Dale_4_Life |
Bookmakers cannot call this one, to be fair neither can I.
Eastleigh 7/5
Draw 15/8
Dale 13/10 the narrowest of favorite's. [Post edited 20 Sep 7:09]
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| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 08:07 - Sep 20 with 9126 views | TalkingSutty |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 07:08 - Sep 20 by Dale_4_Life |
Bookmakers cannot call this one, to be fair neither can I.
Eastleigh 7/5
Draw 15/8
Dale 13/10 the narrowest of favorite's. [Post edited 20 Sep 7:09]
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Depends how we set up and approach the game, a repeat of last Saturdays debacle and we lose. Play like we did at Aldershot and we win. Both our losses this season have been down to us, self inflicted defeats. Over thinking team selection and reverting back to a style of play that has been proved not to work on numerous occasions. No point signing good players if you don't play to their strengths. [Post edited 20 Sep 8:13]
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| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 18:15 - Sep 20 with 8842 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 08:07 - Sep 20 by TalkingSutty |
Depends how we set up and approach the game, a repeat of last Saturdays debacle and we lose. Play like we did at Aldershot and we win. Both our losses this season have been down to us, self inflicted defeats. Over thinking team selection and reverting back to a style of play that has been proved not to work on numerous occasions. No point signing good players if you don't play to their strengths. [Post edited 20 Sep 8:13]
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Correct TS.....but will McNulty STILL want to play his stubborn, sideways ,pedestrian way, mindful that as usual, he still thinks we bossed last weeks "debacle" as you rightfully refer to it.
Or will he think how much better we played on the front foot for the last 10mins on Saturday?
God knows, and he would n't tell us. | | | |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 18:46 - Sep 20 with 8789 views | 442Dale |
For the last time (it probably won’t be), the manager did not send his team out to play less offensively last week. We retained the same formation but a combination of team selection, poor choices and passing by those on the pitch and, most importantly, an opposition who nullified our threat very well, we lost a game of football.
Could the manager have done things differently, made better selections prior and in-game? Yes. He cannot deflect this criticism.
But to suggest he actually decided to play a different way to how we have which has been successful is nonsensical at best. Or wasn’t he playing his preferred way when we were winning games? [Post edited 20 Sep 18:48]
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| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 19:25 - Sep 20 with 8681 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 18:46 - Sep 20 by 442Dale |
For the last time (it probably won’t be), the manager did not send his team out to play less offensively last week. We retained the same formation but a combination of team selection, poor choices and passing by those on the pitch and, most importantly, an opposition who nullified our threat very well, we lost a game of football.
Could the manager have done things differently, made better selections prior and in-game? Yes. He cannot deflect this criticism.
But to suggest he actually decided to play a different way to how we have which has been successful is nonsensical at best. Or wasn’t he playing his preferred way when we were winning games? [Post edited 20 Sep 18:48]
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That is, of course, correct
The fly in the ointment is JM finding a solution to home fixtures where teams come to defend then hit us on the break (or accept gifts)
That, for me, is the difference between a manager and a good manager. There's no doubt JM can manage... but can he crack the home form that would take us to the next level and have the crowds coming back, as per the Ogden agenda? The club have shown confidence that he's not just an average manager; he has still to justify that confidence [Post edited 20 Sep 19:26]
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| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 19:45 - Sep 20 with 8636 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 19:25 - Sep 20 by D_Alien |
That is, of course, correct
The fly in the ointment is JM finding a solution to home fixtures where teams come to defend then hit us on the break (or accept gifts)
That, for me, is the difference between a manager and a good manager. There's no doubt JM can manage... but can he crack the home form that would take us to the next level and have the crowds coming back, as per the Ogden agenda? The club have shown confidence that he's not just an average manager; he has still to justify that confidence [Post edited 20 Sep 19:26]
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Yep. Despite the faith put in him with the longer contract, the jury is still out on some aspects of his management. Do I believe there has been a bit too much negativity around one defeat? Undoubtedly. Whilst some make valid points, there is a predictability amongst other comments. To the point of not even showing an understanding of what we’ve seen so far. Or choosing to ignore it to suit an entrenched view.
However, there are some worrying trends developing which TS has identified in his posts - the amount of changes made game to game being the main one. Another, for me, would be the reluctance to make tweaks to our midfield/forward formation. At some point the 2/3 needs to become a 3/2. If only to see if we can get more out of Rodney. [Post edited 20 Sep 19:48]
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| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 19:46 - Sep 20 with 8629 views | Rodingdale |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 19:25 - Sep 20 by D_Alien |
That is, of course, correct
The fly in the ointment is JM finding a solution to home fixtures where teams come to defend then hit us on the break (or accept gifts)
That, for me, is the difference between a manager and a good manager. There's no doubt JM can manage... but can he crack the home form that would take us to the next level and have the crowds coming back, as per the Ogden agenda? The club have shown confidence that he's not just an average manager; he has still to justify that confidence [Post edited 20 Sep 19:26]
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Same as last season. Press us high, mark up the second ball, wait for us to lose the ball - score from the bits and pieces. | | | |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 19:54 - Sep 20 with 8592 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 19:46 - Sep 20 by Rodingdale |
Same as last season. Press us high, mark up the second ball, wait for us to lose the ball - score from the bits and pieces. |
And the secret to getting past that has been shown to move the ball quickly into wide areas and get the outside central defenders supporting attacks. Then when one route wide is blocked off, shifting it centrally so the likes of East and Henry can move us forward from there.
We look half the team when we don’t move the ball at pace. The manager knows this because we have won over half our games getting at the opposition. It’s when the opposition are set up really well we have to give them other problems. The selection and use of a forward three last week didn’t help us to achieve that. | |
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| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 06:04 - Sep 21 with 8348 views | Rodingdale |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 19:54 - Sep 20 by 442Dale |
And the secret to getting past that has been shown to move the ball quickly into wide areas and get the outside central defenders supporting attacks. Then when one route wide is blocked off, shifting it centrally so the likes of East and Henry can move us forward from there.
We look half the team when we don’t move the ball at pace. The manager knows this because we have won over half our games getting at the opposition. It’s when the opposition are set up really well we have to give them other problems. The selection and use of a forward three last week didn’t help us to achieve that. |
Interesting article in today’s Times sport section on Russell Martins refusal to compromise on possession based football. In the Prem everyone is obviously prepared with comprehensive data on the opposition. And are being found out despite their centre halves having the most successful passes in the league. The similarities are clear. | | | |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 06:17 - Sep 21 with 8352 views | TalkingSutty |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 18:46 - Sep 20 by 442Dale |
For the last time (it probably won’t be), the manager did not send his team out to play less offensively last week. We retained the same formation but a combination of team selection, poor choices and passing by those on the pitch and, most importantly, an opposition who nullified our threat very well, we lost a game of football.
Could the manager have done things differently, made better selections prior and in-game? Yes. He cannot deflect this criticism.
But to suggest he actually decided to play a different way to how we have which has been successful is nonsensical at best. Or wasn’t he playing his preferred way when we were winning games? [Post edited 20 Sep 18:48]
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The team did play a different way though in the first half, they replicated the way we played games last season and invariably it didn't work. Slow build up to the halfway line defenders passing it cautiously between each other while our opponents are already sitting back in their defensive formation, after much tippy tappy the central defender (swap Sassy for EEL) either launches a long aimless ball through to the goalkeeper or out over the heads of the wide players for a throw in, once in a blue moon he'll pick out a player with a good ball. We've seen the tactic too many times for it not to have come off the training ground so it must be encouraged by the manager, it's a deliberate way of playing and it gives the opposition time to set themselves, it's easy to play against. Henry being replaced by Gilmour is also a cautious selection in home games which comes from the manager. We Showed Solihull too much respect instead of playing to our strengths and putting them on the back foot from the start..we waited eighty minutes to do that. The central defenders worry me and i include EEL in that unfortunately. Solihulls second goal was dog and duck defending, a total embarrassment.
The tactics should have been to get the ball to the wide players at every opportunity, we didn't, the defenders turned back inside instead on many occasions when the obvious pass was on. Solihull strolled through the first half, we should have been playing at a fast tempo, getting the ball wide. Switching play and putting them under pressure, pulling them around in the final third..we saw the exact opposite of that and didn't have a shot on target throughout the half. The midfield players should be demanding the ball from the defenders, instead we had East off loading the ball to Sassi. We've seen the exact same slow walking football up to the halfway line and then the central defender looks to play long diagonal balls too many times now to suggest that it's not a deliberate tactic employed by the manager. If it isn't then the players are clearly ignoring his instructions and opting to play a style which just kills the memento of our play and also any atmosphere we have in the ground. I'm not suggesting it's a tactic that's employed every game.
Solihull did very little throughout the game, we gifted them both goals and we had our first shot on target in the 86th minute. You would expect every team to be defensively well organised, it's up to us to break them down and you can't do that by strolling around with the ball in your own half of the pitch and then eventually let your centre half launch long aimless balls. In his post match interview he actually stated we controlled the game, that's how he will have viewed that first half performance. Solihull sat back and deliberately didn't come out to engage us until they decided to do, so it was Solihull who dictated that first half not us, they just watched our defenders fannying around with the ball at a snails pace, all very easy for them to defend against.
We are discussing a individual game though and the frustration is that many supporters thought we had confined that first half display to the dustbin now that we have better players on the pitch, it brought back bad memories from last season. Hopefully it's just a blip, the managers and players have started the season very well and hopefully that will continue today and next week. I hate it when we beat ourselves and we've done that twice now this season. [Post edited 21 Sep 7:25]
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| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 07:37 - Sep 21 with 8250 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 06:17 - Sep 21 by TalkingSutty |
The team did play a different way though in the first half, they replicated the way we played games last season and invariably it didn't work. Slow build up to the halfway line defenders passing it cautiously between each other while our opponents are already sitting back in their defensive formation, after much tippy tappy the central defender (swap Sassy for EEL) either launches a long aimless ball through to the goalkeeper or out over the heads of the wide players for a throw in, once in a blue moon he'll pick out a player with a good ball. We've seen the tactic too many times for it not to have come off the training ground so it must be encouraged by the manager, it's a deliberate way of playing and it gives the opposition time to set themselves, it's easy to play against. Henry being replaced by Gilmour is also a cautious selection in home games which comes from the manager. We Showed Solihull too much respect instead of playing to our strengths and putting them on the back foot from the start..we waited eighty minutes to do that. The central defenders worry me and i include EEL in that unfortunately. Solihulls second goal was dog and duck defending, a total embarrassment.
The tactics should have been to get the ball to the wide players at every opportunity, we didn't, the defenders turned back inside instead on many occasions when the obvious pass was on. Solihull strolled through the first half, we should have been playing at a fast tempo, getting the ball wide. Switching play and putting them under pressure, pulling them around in the final third..we saw the exact opposite of that and didn't have a shot on target throughout the half. The midfield players should be demanding the ball from the defenders, instead we had East off loading the ball to Sassi. We've seen the exact same slow walking football up to the halfway line and then the central defender looks to play long diagonal balls too many times now to suggest that it's not a deliberate tactic employed by the manager. If it isn't then the players are clearly ignoring his instructions and opting to play a style which just kills the memento of our play and also any atmosphere we have in the ground. I'm not suggesting it's a tactic that's employed every game.
Solihull did very little throughout the game, we gifted them both goals and we had our first shot on target in the 86th minute. You would expect every team to be defensively well organised, it's up to us to break them down and you can't do that by strolling around with the ball in your own half of the pitch and then eventually let your centre half launch long aimless balls. In his post match interview he actually stated we controlled the game, that's how he will have viewed that first half performance. Solihull sat back and deliberately didn't come out to engage us until they decided to do, so it was Solihull who dictated that first half not us, they just watched our defenders fannying around with the ball at a snails pace, all very easy for them to defend against.
We are discussing a individual game though and the frustration is that many supporters thought we had confined that first half display to the dustbin now that we have better players on the pitch, it brought back bad memories from last season. Hopefully it's just a blip, the managers and players have started the season very well and hopefully that will continue today and next week. I hate it when we beat ourselves and we've done that twice now this season. [Post edited 21 Sep 7:25]
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We were playing the same way as the previous games but badly. We went through Sassi a lot v Maidenhead (see the Mitchell goal) but then he had more time and more options. It’s just that we didn’t play very well against Solihull and everything was much slower meaning the ball was retained at the back much more. Something which makes us far less effective.
We need to play quickly and wide. When we can’t we need to change how we play more effectively during games. That’s the criticism McNulty has to take on board.
Despite that, he didn’t send his players out to play any differently last Saturday. To say he did would make all the previous wins irrelevant, because those tactics are fundamentally his way of playing. Whether we like that is another debate! | |
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| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 08:57 - Sep 21 with 8163 views | TalkingSutty |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 07:37 - Sep 21 by 442Dale |
We were playing the same way as the previous games but badly. We went through Sassi a lot v Maidenhead (see the Mitchell goal) but then he had more time and more options. It’s just that we didn’t play very well against Solihull and everything was much slower meaning the ball was retained at the back much more. Something which makes us far less effective.
We need to play quickly and wide. When we can’t we need to change how we play more effectively during games. That’s the criticism McNulty has to take on board.
Despite that, he didn’t send his players out to play any differently last Saturday. To say he did would make all the previous wins irrelevant, because those tactics are fundamentally his way of playing. Whether we like that is another debate! |
I think we've all been watching football long enough to know that your midfield players should be the ones who demand the ball and dictate the tempo of the game, it shouldnt be a rookie centre half. The home form let us down last season, drawing too many games that we should have won, same laboured style of play, long ball from EEL to nobody in particular. You're spot on in respect to McNultys in game decisions, or lack of them. I also take on board what you are saying in respect to the way we played was much slower, but that was obvious after twenty minutes and it just became slower and slower. It's been a common theme in home games since McNulty became manager but we hadnt seen it this season. We have maybe the best three midfield players in this league and if we are relying on a centre half to launch attacks from our own half with long aimless balls then the tactics he's employing have to be questioned ( that reliance on the central defenders distribution happens too often and is too deliberate for it not to be a tactic employed by the manager) . Yes, they will work on the odd occasion but they take out the whole of our midfield and invariably end up in the stands or the opposition goalkeepers hands. The first thought in Sassis mind should be to give the ball to either East, Henry or Gilmour and let them progress our attacks from there.
Look at the style of play we saw in the home pre season friendlies against, Carlisle and Salford, Woking in the league, quick two touch football playing through the thirds and getting the ball out wide. Different football to how we played against Solihull. No walking around with the ball, defenders playing little passes to each other and then the game stops and everybody waits for the central defender to try a killer pass or launch the ball up field. We didnt see any of that. Anyway, let's see if we can get some pace and urgency into our game today, we did it in the last fifteen minutes of the Solihull game and nearly snatched a point. McNulty also needs to settle on his strongest starting eleven, constantly chopping and changing the team destabilises performances. Winning games comes before giving everybody game time and we've now had enough games to see what's what.
We could be top of the league tonight 😀 [Post edited 21 Sep 9:38]
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| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 10:51 - Sep 21 with 7915 views | D_Alien |
The bottom line is this: JM's reversion to having a CB as playmaker will not fulfil the Ogden agenda of getting more fans into the ground and have them coming back
We saw, and heard, the precise opposite against Solihull
I'd go as far as to suggest if we'd not gifted them two goals but scored at the end, the utter futule boredom of watching the first 80 minutes would've induced the same reaction among the less-than-diehards. People just won't waste their Saturday afternoons doing that
Employees who don't follow their employer's agenda - which isn't about our status but about our sustainability, remember - shouldn't feel secure in their jobs. Has JM any other tactics in his locker? We started to think so, but i remain far from convinced | |
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| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 11:37 - Sep 21 with 7801 views | James1980 |
I can't imagine berating players for not hoofing the ball long to no one also encourages new fans to return. | |
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| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 11:53 - Sep 21 with 7780 views | TalkingSutty |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 11:37 - Sep 21 by James1980 |
I can't imagine berating players for not hoofing the ball long to no one also encourages new fans to return. |
In general the performances have been good this season James. The discussion relates to what we saw last week against Solihull, it didn't work last season and it didn't work on Saturday. The alternative is to ignore what you are watching and accept it as being normal, you can't then complain though when your crowds don't increase. We've seen the style of football that these players are capable of producing, the Genie is out of the box. We've done what we did with the central defender on numerous occasions last season and it doesn't work, the game stops, momentum dies and so does any atmosphere we have in the stadium. It plays into our opponents hands and nullifies our strengths. We can't keep using our opponents as an excuse to play that way if they want to sit deep and defend rather than engage us, standing on the halfway line with the ball isn't going to hurt them. We're in a different place now James, we have quality players in midfield and also out wide. They should be expected to pull the strings at home and unlock defences, not the defenders. [Post edited 21 Sep 12:11]
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| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 12:14 - Sep 21 with 7694 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 11:37 - Sep 21 by James1980 |
I can't imagine berating players for not hoofing the ball long to no one also encourages new fans to return. |
"Imagine" is an interesting word
Imagine we signed midfielders and wingbacks who could actually play
Imagine getting the ball into their feet, and if the move breaks down higher up the pitch - not on the edge of our penalty box - we work to win it back
Imagine the players who've been schooled to create since boyhood getting the ball into the forwards or a cross into the box
Imagination is free; it appears to be more difficult to free your imagination | |
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| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 12:36 - Sep 21 with 7656 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 12:14 - Sep 21 by D_Alien |
"Imagine" is an interesting word
Imagine we signed midfielders and wingbacks who could actually play
Imagine getting the ball into their feet, and if the move breaks down higher up the pitch - not on the edge of our penalty box - we work to win it back
Imagine the players who've been schooled to create since boyhood getting the ball into the forwards or a cross into the box
Imagination is free; it appears to be more difficult to free your imagination |
For the majority of the season so far, we’ve done all of that. Never seen a player cross the ball as much as TAR for example. Last week we didn’t, we were way off it. Partly because of selection and partly because of a reluctance to change formation.
The manager is responsible for those and finding a way to do all the things we’ve proven to be good at within his preferred way of playing. He does that and we have another level to move up to which will build upon an already impressive start. He doesn’t and the criticism, as it is now, remains valid and has to be acknowledged.
He won’t change his philosophy though. That’s something we have to accept. He can change how that philosophy can be adapted though. That’s something we’ve seen. | |
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| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 13:08 - Sep 21 with 7623 views | Dale_4_Life |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 11:37 - Sep 21 by James1980 |
I can't imagine berating players for not hoofing the ball long to no one also encourages new fans to return. |
All the comments James are pretty constructive and all come from a good place.
We like Jim, we are behind Jim, we want nothing more than the challenge for promotion playing positive attacking football and watch the crowds increase.
No one is saying anything different the bewilderment is there as Saturday v Solihull was a white flag wave when if we had been braver and more positive the result would likely have been reversed.
Onto Eastleigh today.. Up the Dale... it will be a real tonic to get 3 points against a team who also started 2024/25 season pretty well.
I have a feeling the players will perform today and Tuesday at Hartlepool. Then we get another chance at Spotland to see if we can put the Solihull game to bed once and for all in front of our home fans.
Come on the Dale  | | | |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 13:27 - Sep 21 with 7566 views | TalkingSutty |
Exactly Dale 4 life, its a frustration thing with me. Last Saturday transported me back to last season and having seen all the games this season i wasn't expecting to see that again, especially against a team that had been travelling all week and not doing great in the league. I was expecting a high octane performance from the start and a expectation from the manager and the players that we would be top of the league by 5pm. Those are the sort of games that we really need to embrace and attack when they come around...we saw the complete opposite and that was really disappointing to see when we are trying to increase attendances. I love this squad of players, the unity and joy they display and they are also capable of playing some great passing football because we've all witnessed it. I'm 100% behind the manager, he's done well since he's taken the job but with better players and a bigger squad comes expectations and last Saturday was like a blast from the past and we are now better than that. We will lose games but let's do it the right way, play with bravery and attack the opposition, if they are better than us then you can accept that. Last week was a passive surrender for most of the game, we didnt lay a glove on them. The manager has got to accept that and make sure it doesn't happen again. Is he over thinking the game, over thinking team selection, trying to keep everybody happy? All valid questions i think but none of them really matter if the performances are on point and we are getting results. [Post edited 21 Sep 13:39]
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| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 17:10 - Sep 21 with 6453 views | James1980 |
Well that was disappointing, although I don't think you could say passing (sic) about at the back was our downfall this afternoon.
For a bit of perspective the target this year is playoffs 75 points would guarantee a place in them, there more than enough games and points available to achieve that aim. | |
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| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 17:23 - Sep 21 with 6263 views | TalkingSutty |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 17:10 - Sep 21 by James1980 |
Well that was disappointing, although I don't think you could say passing (sic) about at the back was our downfall this afternoon.
For a bit of perspective the target this year is playoffs 75 points would guarantee a place in them, there more than enough games and points available to achieve that aim. |
You didn't see the penalty then? | | | |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 17:29 - Sep 21 with 6164 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 17:10 - Sep 21 by James1980 |
Well that was disappointing, although I don't think you could say passing (sic) about at the back was our downfall this afternoon.
For a bit of perspective the target this year is playoffs 75 points would guarantee a place in them, there more than enough games and points available to achieve that aim. |
Well, that's 10 games up Jimbo and we have 17 points so far.....ok? Based on your guestimate of 75 points to hit a play off place we still need 58 more from 36 remaining games therefore just over 1.6 points per game. Currently getting 1.7. So still very attainable?
10 games in, time for McNulty to look at the table me thinks.....have we performed well so far? | | | |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 17:32 - Sep 21 with 6123 views | mikehunt |
Awful defending for every goal conceded today. |  |
| The worm of time turns not for the cuckoo of circumstance. |
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| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 17:39 - Sep 21 with 5985 views | TalkingSutty |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 17:29 - Sep 21 by Yorkshire_Dale |
Well, that's 10 games up Jimbo and we have 17 points so far.....ok? Based on your guestimate of 75 points to hit a play off place we still need 58 more from 36 remaining games therefore just over 1.6 points per game. Currently getting 1.7. So still very attainable?
10 games in, time for McNulty to look at the table me thinks.....have we performed well so far? |
I think it's a solid start to the season, architects of our own downfall in all three defeats so plenty for the management and players to work on. The defending was abysmal today but the midfield and forward play was very good in parts. Eastleigh are good at home and defensively we couldn't handle them. Hartlepool haven't won at home in five months and then it's Braintree, we should be targeting six points from those games and we are more than capable. | | | |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 17:40 - Sep 21 with 5960 views | dingdangblue |
| Refwatch - Eastleigh v Rochdale on 17:32 - Sep 21 by mikehunt |
Awful defending for every goal conceded today. |
Bit like last Saturday then. Hopefully Sassi dropped for Tuesday and Ferguson back. |  |
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