| Andy Burnham 11:09 - Oct 8 with 14141 views | Boundy |
Will possible exceed Starmer as being the worst PM we've ever had , todays announcement by him on X
@andyburnham
Andy Burnham
@andyburnham
"I know people are worried about fuel prices. And I get it. You get to the pump, watch the numbers climb, and wonder why it's costing so much more than it used to.
The reality is that global events are pushing up costs, and families here at home are feeling the impact.
But I won't accept that there's nothing I can do to help.
That's why from today, you'll be able to see petrol and diesel prices on Google Maps, compare nearby stations and find the cheapest option before you fill up.
It's a small change, but if there's a practical way to help people keep more money in their pocket, I'll do it." |  |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Andy Burnham on 22:27 - Nov 8 with 0 views | johnlangy |
| Andy Burnham on 11:56 - Nov 8 by Gwyn737 |
Polling to rejoin the EU is only going in one direction.
It’s a false position atm as we don’t know what that would mean. When the nuts and bolts of what it would actually look like I’d imagine we’ll see a drop.
However, we do have to continue to have the conversation. It’s no good saying we voted out and that’s it. That’s not how democracy works. |
Thank you for a sensible post Gwyn. | | | |
| Andy Burnham on 23:05 - Nov 8 with 0 views | onehunglow |
| Andy Burnham on 22:27 - Nov 8 by johnlangy |
Thank you for a sensible post Gwyn. |
The last thing we need to be is “ sensible” | |
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| Andy Burnham on 01:42 - Nov 9 with 0 views | Robbie |
Did any voter realise the significance of leaving The EU back in 2016 or a feel good factor .
I did vote yes at that time and after our trading partners in Europe kicked us out after that vote.
Second time I did to stay in that clique , so keep your friends safe but your enemies closer as the old saying goes .
Another U turn on the horizon from another out of his comfort zone Leader . | | | |
| Andy Burnham on 11:43 - Nov 9 with 0 views | majorraglan |
| Andy Burnham on 21:56 - Nov 8 by max936 |
10 years the vote was carried out, but then it took 6yrs or more before we actually got out.
The EU is skint so they'd welcome us with open arms at a massive cost, that the taxpayer will have to fund as per usual.
People need to realise the cost of re-joining, I voted out 10yrs ago, which I didn't expect it to take another 6yrs or more to actually get out, the cost of us re-joining will be enormous and what will we gain, that's the question that needs an answer. |
We’re already committed to making payments to the EU which were agreed as part of the leaving negotiations.
You are right, the cost of rejoining wouldn’t be cheap, so we’d need to make sure that the cost benefit of rejoining would be pretty substantial. Independent economic analyses and official data estimate that Brexit has cost the UK economy 6% to 8% in lost GDP, translating to billions of pounds annually in reduced output, lower tax revenues, and increased trade friction.
A study using Bank of England Decision Maker Panel data and macroeconomic models indicates that Brexit reduced UK GDP by 6% to 8%, lowering GDP per capita by roughly £2,700 to £3,700 per person. Total cumulative economic costs are estimated by various institutions to range from £180 billion to over £300 billion.
If leaving has cost us £300bn (worst case scenario) in the time we’ve been out and our payments after the rebate were £11bn per year (worst case scenario) then we’re worse off by £240bn, if we use the lower £180bn figure and still use the £11bn figure the cost drops to £120bn.
It’s very difficult to really get to the bottom of it all because there are so many vested interests all pushing their own agenda.
As I said in my initial post I voted leave, but the Brexit that’s been delivered isn’t the Brexit I wanted and not one I’d have voted for. Others will say the same, but for different reasons as they’d have preferred a harder Brexit. | | | |
| Andy Burnham on 12:13 - Nov 9 with 0 views | Gwyn737 |
| Andy Burnham on 20:28 - Nov 8 by Boundy |
"It’s no good saying we voted out and that’s it. That’s not how democracy works" please explain, I thought a majority decsion after a democratic vote was exactly how it should work ? |
Is your point that a referendum result can never be reversed?
Democracy means we should all be represented. The fact that polling shows that support for rejoining the EU is rising (well above 50%) means we must continue to have the conversation.
As I said earlier, I think the numbers are falsy high as we don't know the cost of rejoining. Another reason why it's positive to keep taking about it. Realistically, I think we're probably about 10 years away from getting close to another vote and I reckon that about right.
Labour won the last election but that doesn't stopthe other parties still campaigning. It's how democracy works. | | | |
| Andy Burnham on 12:14 - Nov 9 with 0 views | Gwyn737 |
| Andy Burnham on 17:56 - Nov 8 by AnotherJohn |
Hard to resist the conclusion that there are "what if" negotiations going on behind the scenes already. The message seems to be: no Euro or Schengen straight away, but no rebate, no compromise on the "four freedoms" of the single market (including freedom of movement), an agreement tilted in the EU's favour re full compliance with the EU economic governance framework, the migration and asylum framework (with burden sharing), the common fisheries policy, etc. To me, that would be significantly worse than the previous deal, which people may recall was causing us sufficient discomfort for Cameron to go to Brussels cap in hand. No doubt, some economics illiterates will think that shorter airport queues make up for everything else.
P.S. For the fishing angle see this link:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news [Post edited 8 Nov 18:48]
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Do you think the fishing industry was better off before Brexit? | | | |
| Andy Burnham on 12:34 - Nov 9 with 0 views | Demitrius |
| Andy Burnham on 12:14 - Nov 9 by Gwyn737 |
Do you think the fishing industry was better off before Brexit? |
Well, we didn't have Mortimer & Whitehouse before Brexit so it's a net gain (pun intended) for me !  |  |
| “Cunnilingus and Psychiatry brought us to this …” |
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| Andy Burnham on 16:25 - Nov 9 with 0 views | max936 |
| Andy Burnham on 11:43 - Nov 9 by majorraglan |
We’re already committed to making payments to the EU which were agreed as part of the leaving negotiations.
You are right, the cost of rejoining wouldn’t be cheap, so we’d need to make sure that the cost benefit of rejoining would be pretty substantial. Independent economic analyses and official data estimate that Brexit has cost the UK economy 6% to 8% in lost GDP, translating to billions of pounds annually in reduced output, lower tax revenues, and increased trade friction.
A study using Bank of England Decision Maker Panel data and macroeconomic models indicates that Brexit reduced UK GDP by 6% to 8%, lowering GDP per capita by roughly £2,700 to £3,700 per person. Total cumulative economic costs are estimated by various institutions to range from £180 billion to over £300 billion.
If leaving has cost us £300bn (worst case scenario) in the time we’ve been out and our payments after the rebate were £11bn per year (worst case scenario) then we’re worse off by £240bn, if we use the lower £180bn figure and still use the £11bn figure the cost drops to £120bn.
It’s very difficult to really get to the bottom of it all because there are so many vested interests all pushing their own agenda.
As I said in my initial post I voted leave, but the Brexit that’s been delivered isn’t the Brexit I wanted and not one I’d have voted for. Others will say the same, but for different reasons as they’d have preferred a harder Brexit. |
After over 6yrs after the referendum I had changed my mind, I have no idea now, well I say that, but my total mistrust of this current government I'd vote no again.
You say its costing us now, but how much will it cost us yearly to re-join and what will we gain from going back in? That's the crunch of the matter, France, Spain and Germany are skint by all accounts, so what we'll gain from going back will probably amount to even more debt for the Taxpayers to find.  |  | | |
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| Andy Burnham on 17:18 - Nov 9 with 0 views | johnlangy |
| Andy Burnham on 21:42 - Nov 8 by majorraglan |
We had a majority decision 10 years ago and we’ve had Brexit. Since the referendum and post Cameron, we’ve had 6 new Prime Ministers and 3 General Elections. The public have changed their mind about their MP’s, the PM and governments - do we not have a chance to change our mind on Brexit if we’re not happy with the way things have panned out?
I voted to leave 10 years ago based on the fact that we’d strike a good deal with the EU, our manufacturing industries and services would have good access to the single market etc etc. instead, we had a hard Brexit, which pleased some, didn’t go far enough for others and horrified a lot of leavers because they wanted to retain closer links. There’s no doubt lots of people who voted for Brexit aren’t happy and feel let down and are unhappy, on top of them there’s the 48% who voted to remain and would probably do so again tomorrow if we had another vote. Is the majority of the UK happy with our current lot?
Would I vote leave again? Absolutely not - if we had another referendum tomorrow I’d definitely vote to rejoin, my kids who weren’t old enough to vote then would also vote to rejoin - albeit it’ll be on worse terms than we had.
Should there should be another referendum on EU membership in the immediate future, I don’t believe there should. I think we need to let Brexit run its course for the next few years, benchmark and evidence how things are going and go from there.
What is certain is that the younger demographics were overwhelmingly remain and as more of them come of age they will bolster a Remain vote - meanwhile the older population who voted overwhelmingly to leave are decreasing in numbers. If there becomes a point when the public opinion clearly demonstrates there’s an overwhelming majority in favour of rejoining, then for me that would be the time for a new referendum. What we can’t be doing is flip flopping back and forth every couple of years. [Post edited 8 Nov 21:42]
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Good post major.
Some say we've only really been out six years since Boris' joke of a deal so it's too early to be talking about it.
If we do get to a point where the proposed deal is somehow measured as being acceptable to the UK population (2028 maybe ?) the following referendum would then take at least a couple of years to be held. Hopefully during that time we'll have a proper upfront, honest national conversation where everyone considers the pros and cons like adults (we can but hope).
And if that ref ends up with a rejoin majority it will take years again before the UK is officially back in.
So instead of the current six years that may mean sixteen years. Enough imo for Brexit to provide enough evidence to be considered a success or a failure. | | | |
| Andy Burnham on 17:42 - Nov 9 with 0 views | AnotherJohn |
| Andy Burnham on 12:14 - Nov 9 by Gwyn737 |
Do you think the fishing industry was better off before Brexit? |
Before Brexit the deal under the CFP was disastrous for the UK fishing industry. There were some very minor gains following exit (most of which were really potential gains some years ahead), but Boris basically traded away fish quotas for supposed concessions in other areas. The latest leaks about current negotiations suggest that the UK would forego those potential gains and allow current quotas to stay in place way into the future. Does Gwyn think the EU gave, or continues to give, the UK a fair deal on fishing access? | | | |
| Andy Burnham on 19:38 - Nov 9 with 0 views | majorraglan |
| Andy Burnham on 17:42 - Nov 9 by AnotherJohn |
Before Brexit the deal under the CFP was disastrous for the UK fishing industry. There were some very minor gains following exit (most of which were really potential gains some years ahead), but Boris basically traded away fish quotas for supposed concessions in other areas. The latest leaks about current negotiations suggest that the UK would forego those potential gains and allow current quotas to stay in place way into the future. Does Gwyn think the EU gave, or continues to give, the UK a fair deal on fishing access? |
I think most of the fishing industry in the U.K. is pretty unhappy with the deal Boris struck. The U.K. did close some of its waters to EU trawlers, but equally we lost access to some of the traditional waters in the EU we’d previously fished.
A major gripe for British fishermen has been the extra paperwork and barriers that being a “third country” has imposed and the value of British exports to the EU dropped significantly. I think fishing was always on hiding to nothing and was always at risk of being “sacrificed” for other “more valuable” industries. If I was in Boris position and had to make concessions in one area to realise gains in another I’d probably have done the same. | | | |
| Andy Burnham on 20:37 - Nov 9 with 0 views | Gwyn737 |
| Andy Burnham on 17:42 - Nov 9 by AnotherJohn |
Before Brexit the deal under the CFP was disastrous for the UK fishing industry. There were some very minor gains following exit (most of which were really potential gains some years ahead), but Boris basically traded away fish quotas for supposed concessions in other areas. The latest leaks about current negotiations suggest that the UK would forego those potential gains and allow current quotas to stay in place way into the future. Does Gwyn think the EU gave, or continues to give, the UK a fair deal on fishing access? |
No, I don’t.
But I do think things were much better, especially for smaller outfits, before leaving. | | | |
| Andy Burnham on 20:38 - Nov 9 with 0 views | Gwyn737 |
| Andy Burnham on 19:38 - Nov 9 by majorraglan |
I think most of the fishing industry in the U.K. is pretty unhappy with the deal Boris struck. The U.K. did close some of its waters to EU trawlers, but equally we lost access to some of the traditional waters in the EU we’d previously fished.
A major gripe for British fishermen has been the extra paperwork and barriers that being a “third country” has imposed and the value of British exports to the EU dropped significantly. I think fishing was always on hiding to nothing and was always at risk of being “sacrificed” for other “more valuable” industries. If I was in Boris position and had to make concessions in one area to realise gains in another I’d probably have done the same. |
Similar story for farmers. | | | |
| Andy Burnham on 20:45 - Nov 9 with 0 views | builthjack |
| Andy Burnham on 20:38 - Nov 9 by Gwyn737 |
Similar story for farmers. |
Most farmers now wish we had stayed in. Yet most voted to come out.
Hoodwinked.. it wasn’t just the £350m a week that Johnson said the NHS would receive. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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