| Jamie Allen on 10:06 - Nov 14 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Jamie Allen on 07:44 - Nov 14 by 442Dale |
How would you deploy Allen and Paterson together and who else plays in midfield?
It’s been said previously that we need more physicality in the team. As good as those two are, that issue is yet to be addressed.
Whilst praising the arrival of a very good player, it’s be interesting to see who fans would play and who they feel should miss out. |
From last week's starting XI, ZSD
He's not doing badly, but just the obvious replacement with a role from the bench, if needed
And yes, the point i made a couple of days ago, echoed by Fitz this morning, about large squad management and IW's newness to this, adds to his learning curve. Not that i doubt many others recognise the same thing [Post edited 14 Nov 10:09]
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| Jamie Allen on 10:37 - Nov 14 with 0 views | EllDale |
The game is evolving so that teams essentially have starting and finishing lineups.
The art is that of deciding which blend of midfielders begin the game and which impact players replace them as the second half unfolds.
That’s the challenge for IW. |  | | |
| Jamie Allen on 11:07 - Nov 14 with 0 views | jonahwhereru |
| Jamie Allen on 07:44 - Nov 14 by 442Dale |
How would you deploy Allen and Paterson together and who else plays in midfield?
It’s been said previously that we need more physicality in the team. As good as those two are, that issue is yet to be addressed.
Whilst praising the arrival of a very good player, it’s be interesting to see who fans would play and who they feel should miss out. |
Allen as young player was full of hunger and desire.attributes that made him a very physical player when he was here, who never shirked a challenge. Now if he has the same will and desire at the age of 31 turning out for us on a short term contract is open to question. However I expect his professionalism and attachment to the club will win out over potentially minding himself until a better offer arrives.
My moniker on here refers to Gary Jones. For me Allen’s playing style was the nearest we have got to Jones..85% of that would do for me. | | | |
| Jamie Allen on 11:11 - Nov 14 with 0 views | 442Dale |
| Jamie Allen on 10:06 - Nov 14 by D_Alien |
From last week's starting XI, ZSD
He's not doing badly, but just the obvious replacement with a role from the bench, if needed
And yes, the point i made a couple of days ago, echoed by Fitz this morning, about large squad management and IW's newness to this, adds to his learning curve. Not that i doubt many others recognise the same thing [Post edited 14 Nov 10:09]
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A large squad which is much bigger than what he wanted. Which indicates that it needs reducing in January.
Last week we had nine subs, today we can have seven. If Allen starts, as he surely will if he’s here on a short term deal initially, and ZSD dropping to the bench it leaves six slots.
Spaven, EEL, Francis (who came on at half time last week), Henderson, Adeeko would take up five.
Leaves one spot for East, Pettit or Bilongo who may get the nod as there is no full back cover, whereas there is in midfield. |  |
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| Jamie Allen on 11:12 - Nov 14 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Jamie Allen on 11:11 - Nov 14 by 442Dale |
A large squad which is much bigger than what he wanted. Which indicates that it needs reducing in January.
Last week we had nine subs, today we can have seven. If Allen starts, as he surely will if he’s here on a short term deal initially, and ZSD dropping to the bench it leaves six slots.
Spaven, EEL, Francis (who came on at half time last week), Henderson, Adeeko would take up five.
Leaves one spot for East, Pettit or Bilongo who may get the nod as there is no full back cover, whereas there is in midfield. |
Your analysis is correct | |
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| Jamie Allen on 11:15 - Nov 14 with 0 views | 442Dale |
| Jamie Allen on 11:07 - Nov 14 by jonahwhereru |
Allen as young player was full of hunger and desire.attributes that made him a very physical player when he was here, who never shirked a challenge. Now if he has the same will and desire at the age of 31 turning out for us on a short term contract is open to question. However I expect his professionalism and attachment to the club will win out over potentially minding himself until a better offer arrives.
My moniker on here refers to Gary Jones. For me Allen’s playing style was the nearest we have got to Jones..85% of that would do for me. |
Don’t think anyone doubts that about Allen. Gilmour and East are combative in their own right too. So is Adeeko.
Didn’t necessarily make the point myself about the physicality but it has been said that it’s what we need. Presumably it was a different type of profile midfielder to those mentioned and Allen himself. | |
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| Jamie Allen on 11:16 - Nov 14 with 0 views | 442Dale |
| Jamie Allen on 11:12 - Nov 14 by D_Alien |
Your analysis is correct |
Actually it isn’t. I missed out Hayes, so no spot on the bench for any of those three. [Post edited 14 Nov 11:17]
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| Jamie Allen on 11:23 - Nov 14 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Jamie Allen on 11:16 - Nov 14 by 442Dale |
Actually it isn’t. I missed out Hayes, so no spot on the bench for any of those three. [Post edited 14 Nov 11:17]
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No, it's still correct, despite the omission
The point is about accommodating Allen, with fewer subs than last week
Unlike a new signing, he'll be pretty familiar with the set up due to his lengthy training spell with us | |
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| Jamie Allen on 11:27 - Nov 14 with 0 views | 442Dale |
| Jamie Allen on 11:23 - Nov 14 by D_Alien |
No, it's still correct, despite the omission
The point is about accommodating Allen, with fewer subs than last week
Unlike a new signing, he'll be pretty familiar with the set up due to his lengthy training spell with us |
As a 10 or alongside Gilmour?
Or he could sit in front of the back four as he has done in the past.
The subs issue is the squad issue. Pettit and East to miss out and no fullback cover if as above. | |
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| Jamie Allen on 11:55 - Nov 14 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Jamie Allen on 11:27 - Nov 14 by 442Dale |
As a 10 or alongside Gilmour?
Or he could sit in front of the back four as he has done in the past.
The subs issue is the squad issue. Pettit and East to miss out and no fullback cover if as above. |
I'm not particularly fussed about Allen having a designated role
It could be that IW will give him free rein to take up whatever role he sees fit as the game develops. The other chosen midfielders will be able to adapt around that
So at times we could see him sitting in front of the back four (especially if we find ourselves under the cosh) and at others, in a more advanced position. It wouldn't make much sense to waste his potential influence by having him "fill a slot" in someone's preferred formation | |
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| Jamie Allen on 11:55 - Nov 14 with 0 views | ChaffRAFC |
| Jamie Allen on 11:27 - Nov 14 by 442Dale |
As a 10 or alongside Gilmour?
Or he could sit in front of the back four as he has done in the past.
The subs issue is the squad issue. Pettit and East to miss out and no fullback cover if as above. |
We all know how good Jamie Allen is as a footballer but my worry is about recruitment in general and this signing, again, like so many others seems to be one without any plan or structure to it.
Had he signed while both Pettit and East were out injured then I could understand it more but he's signed as both players are returning to the squad. What must those two players now be thinking when you now have Allen, East, Gilmour, Adeeko and Pettit battling for two shirts?
The signing of Paterson was the same, a signing who, on paper should p!$$ this league because of what he's done higher up the pyramid. No plan to it, no structure.
And the fact now remains, we've made 17 signings and we're still needing to rely on players we shouldn't have to be relying on like Ian Henderson.
Has a manager ever been backed as much as Ian Watson has? There's no structure whatsoever to it all and to me it screams desperation. |  |
| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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| Jamie Allen on 12:07 - Nov 14 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Jamie Allen on 11:55 - Nov 14 by ChaffRAFC |
We all know how good Jamie Allen is as a footballer but my worry is about recruitment in general and this signing, again, like so many others seems to be one without any plan or structure to it.
Had he signed while both Pettit and East were out injured then I could understand it more but he's signed as both players are returning to the squad. What must those two players now be thinking when you now have Allen, East, Gilmour, Adeeko and Pettit battling for two shirts?
The signing of Paterson was the same, a signing who, on paper should p!$$ this league because of what he's done higher up the pyramid. No plan to it, no structure.
And the fact now remains, we've made 17 signings and we're still needing to rely on players we shouldn't have to be relying on like Ian Henderson.
Has a manager ever been backed as much as Ian Watson has? There's no structure whatsoever to it all and to me it screams desperation. |
Understand the concerns, but i'd hazard a guess that we've not suddenly decided to sign him. More likely, Jamie Allen has been biding his time in the hope a club higher up the food chain would make him an offer, but now we're approaching the transfer window, he's agreed to the short term contract
Would anyone of us have been happy if he'd now made himself available and we'd said "Sorry Jamie, our squad's too big now" ? [Post edited 14 Nov 12:08]
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| Jamie Allen on 12:08 - Nov 14 with 0 views | EllDale |
Recruitment strategy may change now there’s someone at the club with specific responsibility for it. | | | |
| Jamie Allen on 12:26 - Nov 14 with 0 views | 442Dale |
| Jamie Allen on 11:55 - Nov 14 by ChaffRAFC |
We all know how good Jamie Allen is as a footballer but my worry is about recruitment in general and this signing, again, like so many others seems to be one without any plan or structure to it.
Had he signed while both Pettit and East were out injured then I could understand it more but he's signed as both players are returning to the squad. What must those two players now be thinking when you now have Allen, East, Gilmour, Adeeko and Pettit battling for two shirts?
The signing of Paterson was the same, a signing who, on paper should p!$$ this league because of what he's done higher up the pyramid. No plan to it, no structure.
And the fact now remains, we've made 17 signings and we're still needing to rely on players we shouldn't have to be relying on like Ian Henderson.
Has a manager ever been backed as much as Ian Watson has? There's no structure whatsoever to it all and to me it screams desperation. |
Reiterating my concerns with the added note about relying on Henderson.
Why, if we were looking at players without a club, have we signed Paterson and Allen rather than a looking to bring in a centre forward?
Collecting players just because they’re good is fine if 1) the manager believes the squad is short in certain areas; 2) it’s within budget; 3) it doesn’t contradict previous concerns.
I’ve been supportive of Watson, he’s had so much bad luck, but pointing out obvious and avoidable errors and contradictions just because we’ve signed an excellent player isn’t unfair either. | |
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| Jamie Allen on 12:36 - Nov 14 with 0 views | 442Dale |
| Jamie Allen on 11:55 - Nov 14 by D_Alien |
I'm not particularly fussed about Allen having a designated role
It could be that IW will give him free rein to take up whatever role he sees fit as the game develops. The other chosen midfielders will be able to adapt around that
So at times we could see him sitting in front of the back four (especially if we find ourselves under the cosh) and at others, in a more advanced position. It wouldn't make much sense to waste his potential influence by having him "fill a slot" in someone's preferred formation |
The lack of structure, particularly in midfield with respect to the distances that leave us exposed is exactly why we need to ensure that Allen’s role alongside the two other players is clearly defined. | |
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| Jamie Allen on 12:45 - Nov 14 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Jamie Allen on 12:26 - Nov 14 by 442Dale |
Reiterating my concerns with the added note about relying on Henderson.
Why, if we were looking at players without a club, have we signed Paterson and Allen rather than a looking to bring in a centre forward?
Collecting players just because they’re good is fine if 1) the manager believes the squad is short in certain areas; 2) it’s within budget; 3) it doesn’t contradict previous concerns.
I’ve been supportive of Watson, he’s had so much bad luck, but pointing out obvious and avoidable errors and contradictions just because we’ve signed an excellent player isn’t unfair either. |
Who's said it's unfair, when as far as i can see, everyone would agree with that?
The Jamie Allen signing has brought it into even sharper focus, but i honestly can't recall anyone claiming our squad wasn't too big | |
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| Jamie Allen on 12:47 - Nov 14 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Jamie Allen on 12:36 - Nov 14 by 442Dale |
The lack of structure, particularly in midfield with respect to the distances that leave us exposed is exactly why we need to ensure that Allen’s role alongside the two other players is clearly defined. |
No. If the nature of the balance of play changes, it would be insane to not have a degree of flexibility to cope with that (i think even you'd be annoyed if we didn't)
Jamie Allen is in a very good place to see that for himself with his experience, and make adjustments accordingly | |
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| Jamie Allen on 12:50 - Nov 14 with 0 views | 442Dale |
| Jamie Allen on 12:45 - Nov 14 by D_Alien |
Who's said it's unfair, when as far as i can see, everyone would agree with that?
The Jamie Allen signing has brought it into even sharper focus, but i honestly can't recall anyone claiming our squad wasn't too big |
Didn’t say they did. Pointing out the issues that come with this signing are, as noted, understandable. | |
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| Jamie Allen on 12:54 - Nov 14 with 0 views | 442Dale |
| Jamie Allen on 12:47 - Nov 14 by D_Alien |
No. If the nature of the balance of play changes, it would be insane to not have a degree of flexibility to cope with that (i think even you'd be annoyed if we didn't)
Jamie Allen is in a very good place to see that for himself with his experience, and make adjustments accordingly |
Of course he will, Gilmour does similar. It’s what his actual role is within the structure that will relate to those around him in any given moment, whilst at the same way going some way to addressing the yet to be solved problems.
That will have been established in training. As Watson references a lot, it’s about processes. Was just wondering which position people see him start in. | |
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| Jamie Allen on 13:11 - Nov 14 with 0 views | rich_dale |
| Jamie Allen on 12:26 - Nov 14 by 442Dale |
Reiterating my concerns with the added note about relying on Henderson.
Why, if we were looking at players without a club, have we signed Paterson and Allen rather than a looking to bring in a centre forward?
Collecting players just because they’re good is fine if 1) the manager believes the squad is short in certain areas; 2) it’s within budget; 3) it doesn’t contradict previous concerns.
I’ve been supportive of Watson, he’s had so much bad luck, but pointing out obvious and avoidable errors and contradictions just because we’ve signed an excellent player isn’t unfair either. |
Signing Paterson and Allen, plus the previous acquisition of countless wingers means the wide/inside forward/number 10 plus central midfield areas are increasingly overpopulated and confused when we should be looking at strengthening the goalkeeper and centre forward positions plus probably left back and central defence. | | | |
| Jamie Allen on 13:16 - Nov 14 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Jamie Allen on 12:50 - Nov 14 by 442Dale |
Didn’t say they did. Pointing out the issues that come with this signing are, as noted, understandable. |
Who hasn't understood them? | |
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| Jamie Allen on 13:18 - Nov 14 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Jamie Allen on 12:54 - Nov 14 by 442Dale |
Of course he will, Gilmour does similar. It’s what his actual role is within the structure that will relate to those around him in any given moment, whilst at the same way going some way to addressing the yet to be solved problems.
That will have been established in training. As Watson references a lot, it’s about processes. Was just wondering which position people see him start in. |
Almost certainly in a holding position, maximising his chances of influencing the game from the start | |
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| Jamie Allen on 13:19 - Nov 14 with 0 views | 442Dale |
| Jamie Allen on 13:11 - Nov 14 by rich_dale |
Signing Paterson and Allen, plus the previous acquisition of countless wingers means the wide/inside forward/number 10 plus central midfield areas are increasingly overpopulated and confused when we should be looking at strengthening the goalkeeper and centre forward positions plus probably left back and central defence. |
It was a very valid criticism of McNulty the way he signed a multitude of players who could play no.10. The difference was each one knew where they fit in and all were utilised at any given moment to good effect. Well, except Mancini.
You don’t have to like something if you can understand it. But if it becomes difficult to work out why, faith is sometimes lost. | |
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| Jamie Allen on 13:20 - Nov 14 with 0 views | 442Dale |
| Jamie Allen on 13:16 - Nov 14 by D_Alien |
Who hasn't understood them? |
Dunno. Don’t check or presume about everyone. | |
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| Jamie Allen on 13:35 - Nov 14 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Jamie Allen on 13:20 - Nov 14 by 442Dale |
Dunno. Don’t check or presume about everyone. |
I think you missed the irony... | |
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