| The coaching team 18:17 - Feb 10 with 6421 views | James1980 |
Hill came in worked his magic got us promoted happy days. He announces his loyalty to Dale and he is not going anywhere next thing, 'byeeeeeee I'm off to Barnsley' Did that for a section of supporters equate to treacherous behaviour that was going to be difficult to forgive?
Hill came back we get promoted back to league 1 hurrah. But did that only really buy Hill some time because some begrudged him getting another job with Dale after leaving to go to Barnsley?
Hill and Beech are sacked but one of Hill's staff BBM takes over fortunately the team stay up and BBM is awarded a full-time contract. Were some fans not happy about that appointment because BBM was part of Hill's team?
I know this is overthinking. [Post edited 11 Feb 2021 20:06]
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| The coaching team on 18:31 - Feb 10 with 4399 views | 442Dale |
Don’t think anyone had any problems with BBM being appointed after he immediately turned things round and got results. His first ten games in charge saw us gain six wins and 20 points.
The situation has no comparison to previous regimes, only to the current one.
Don’t think anyone is looking past results and the performances/deficiencies of the team. |  |
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| The coaching team on 18:48 - Feb 10 with 4348 views | James1980 |
| The coaching team on 18:31 - Feb 10 by 442Dale |
Don’t think anyone had any problems with BBM being appointed after he immediately turned things round and got results. His first ten games in charge saw us gain six wins and 20 points.
The situation has no comparison to previous regimes, only to the current one.
Don’t think anyone is looking past results and the performances/deficiencies of the team. |
Was his full-time appointment rather than being welcomed with open arms tolerated by some though? BBM out is not a recent mindset amongst some fans if social media is anything to go by. | |
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| The coaching team on 18:59 - Feb 10 with 4282 views | 442Dale |
| The coaching team on 18:48 - Feb 10 by James1980 |
Was his full-time appointment rather than being welcomed with open arms tolerated by some though? BBM out is not a recent mindset amongst some fans if social media is anything to go by. |
Of course there will have been a few, but find me any club where fans are unison in their opinions, it won’t ever happen.
There has never really been a “BBM out” mindset or campaign, even now it’s people looking at the facts and giving balanced opinions in the main. This has nothing of the hallmarks of a “campaign” as seen when fans visibly turned on Graham Barrow for example, with months of protests and genuine anger and upset on the terraces. When we could be arsed coming out of the bar.
Appreciate it might be different if fans were in the ground, but that’s impossible to say as results may have been different, however the virtual response has been, in the main, fair and balanced and no real signs of any sort of campaign against what could be a promising manager. | |
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| The coaching team on 19:17 - Feb 10 with 4238 views | James1980 |
| The coaching team on 18:59 - Feb 10 by 442Dale |
Of course there will have been a few, but find me any club where fans are unison in their opinions, it won’t ever happen.
There has never really been a “BBM out” mindset or campaign, even now it’s people looking at the facts and giving balanced opinions in the main. This has nothing of the hallmarks of a “campaign” as seen when fans visibly turned on Graham Barrow for example, with months of protests and genuine anger and upset on the terraces. When we could be arsed coming out of the bar.
Appreciate it might be different if fans were in the ground, but that’s impossible to say as results may have been different, however the virtual response has been, in the main, fair and balanced and no real signs of any sort of campaign against what could be a promising manager. |
I'm misinterpreting what I have seen on social media after losses and dropping points at the death.
My train of thought is I don't want BBM sacked. However perhaps someone entirely new with no links to the current or former management team that all fans can get totally behind might be what is needed. | |
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| The coaching team on 19:37 - Feb 10 with 4188 views | 442Dale |
| The coaching team on 19:17 - Feb 10 by James1980 |
I'm misinterpreting what I have seen on social media after losses and dropping points at the death.
My train of thought is I don't want BBM sacked. However perhaps someone entirely new with no links to the current or former management team that all fans can get totally behind might be what is needed. |
You’ll always get extremes, especially on social media. It happens in the pub before/after games too, but just as you would there it’s a case of zoning out when the repetitive, bluster with little balanced thought is being shouted out to the world. There comes a time when it’s recognisable that a fanbase has a general view based on actual evidence, think that’s what we see on here for the majority of the time.
That lack of an outlet due to Covid is driving opinion and the shouting to the world online as something someone would have said to their three mates over a pint is said over a few lines and we all witness it. We’d move to another seat in the pub, on Twitter it’s a case of moving to the Weetabix and beans thread. | |
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| The coaching team on 20:01 - Feb 10 with 4115 views | Brierls |
Q. Hill came in worked his magic got us promoted happy days. He announces his loyalty to Dale and he is not going anywhere next thing, 'byeeeeeee I'm off to Barnsley' Did that for a section of supporters equate to treacherous behaviour that was going to be difficult to forgive?
A. Some fans didn't forgive.
Q. Hill came back we get promoted back to league 1 hurrah. But did that only really buy Hill some time because some begrudged him getting another job with Dale after leaving to go to Barnsley?
A. The fans who didn't forgive Hilly for leaving 'tolerated' the relative success. They were always going to be more vociferous when things weren't going well.
Q. Hill and Beech are sacked but one of Hill's staff BBM takes over fortunately the team stay up and BBM is awarded a full-time contract. Were some fans not happy about that appointment because BBM was part of Hill's team?
A. I don't remember there being many dissenting voices about BBM's appointment in the sense that it was a continuation of Hilly's team. There were some that called it a cheap or easy option, there were others that would have preferred somebody with more experience. I may be wrong but I think BBM was appointed full-time manager a few games into the caretaker role, not at the end of the season.
Q. I know this is overthinking but there might be a point somewhere.
A. I'm yet to see it. BBM and his coaching team are not a continuation of the Hill regime, they are their own people. |  | | |
| The coaching team on 20:08 - Feb 10 with 4097 views | boromat |
| The coaching team on 20:01 - Feb 10 by Brierls |
Q. Hill came in worked his magic got us promoted happy days. He announces his loyalty to Dale and he is not going anywhere next thing, 'byeeeeeee I'm off to Barnsley' Did that for a section of supporters equate to treacherous behaviour that was going to be difficult to forgive?
A. Some fans didn't forgive.
Q. Hill came back we get promoted back to league 1 hurrah. But did that only really buy Hill some time because some begrudged him getting another job with Dale after leaving to go to Barnsley?
A. The fans who didn't forgive Hilly for leaving 'tolerated' the relative success. They were always going to be more vociferous when things weren't going well.
Q. Hill and Beech are sacked but one of Hill's staff BBM takes over fortunately the team stay up and BBM is awarded a full-time contract. Were some fans not happy about that appointment because BBM was part of Hill's team?
A. I don't remember there being many dissenting voices about BBM's appointment in the sense that it was a continuation of Hilly's team. There were some that called it a cheap or easy option, there were others that would have preferred somebody with more experience. I may be wrong but I think BBM was appointed full-time manager a few games into the caretaker role, not at the end of the season.
Q. I know this is overthinking but there might be a point somewhere.
A. I'm yet to see it. BBM and his coaching team are not a continuation of the Hill regime, they are their own people. |
Agree with the last point and if I took over from my boss I'd do things differently, wouldn't everyone? Yes you might keep some things and tweak others but you'd want to bring your own ideas.
I also think BBM had less association with Hill than say a Flitcroft or a Beech or even a Jim McNulty. It was more like Hill taking charge originally when he took over from Parkin apart from BBM was seen around the first team on a match day. | |
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| The coaching team on 08:30 - Feb 11 with 3869 views | James1980 |
| The coaching team on 20:08 - Feb 10 by boromat |
Agree with the last point and if I took over from my boss I'd do things differently, wouldn't everyone? Yes you might keep some things and tweak others but you'd want to bring your own ideas.
I also think BBM had less association with Hill than say a Flitcroft or a Beech or even a Jim McNulty. It was more like Hill taking charge originally when he took over from Parkin apart from BBM was seen around the first team on a match day. |
Thank you for the comprehensive answers. I suppose my theory about bringing in a manager everyone can get behind whole heartedly is a bit of a pipe dream because it is very tricky to keep the entire fan base of a club 'happy'. | |
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| The coaching team on 09:29 - Feb 11 with 3785 views | fitzochris |
I'll add to this that the plan for BBM to succeed Keith Hill goes back as far as least 2015. Chris Dunphy told me as much in an interview I did with him. Clearly BBM's potential as a coach/manager was evident even back then. |  |
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| The coaching team on 12:13 - Feb 11 with 3552 views | James1980 |
| The coaching team on 09:29 - Feb 11 by fitzochris |
I'll add to this that the plan for BBM to succeed Keith Hill goes back as far as least 2015. Chris Dunphy told me as much in an interview I did with him. Clearly BBM's potential as a coach/manager was evident even back then. |
Humphrys was saying in a recent interview, something along the lines of BBM is about 10 years ahead of his time in terms of man management.
Hopefully the team can put together a run of results. | |
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| The coaching team on 12:59 - Feb 11 with 3471 views | D_Alien |
| The coaching team on 12:13 - Feb 11 by James1980 |
Humphrys was saying in a recent interview, something along the lines of BBM is about 10 years ahead of his time in terms of man management.
Hopefully the team can put together a run of results. |
Unfortunately, however empathetic BBM is to how the players feel and how he deals with it, the buck stops at his door for trying to induce a playing style that not only isn't suited to a L1 relegation battle but quite possibly doesn't suit some of the players
If you're instructing them to pass out of defence when their instinct is to clear their lines under pressure, and as a result of that they're caught out and the opposition score, there's nothing more "debilitating" (to use the term he uses in his BBC article) than that, which not only undermines them but would more than likely cause them to lose faith in the manager - whatever statements of togetherness might be put out publicly
Having empathy in that situation is worse than useless |  |
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| The coaching team on 13:48 - Feb 11 with 3371 views | James1980 |
| The coaching team on 12:59 - Feb 11 by D_Alien |
Unfortunately, however empathetic BBM is to how the players feel and how he deals with it, the buck stops at his door for trying to induce a playing style that not only isn't suited to a L1 relegation battle but quite possibly doesn't suit some of the players
If you're instructing them to pass out of defence when their instinct is to clear their lines under pressure, and as a result of that they're caught out and the opposition score, there's nothing more "debilitating" (to use the term he uses in his BBC article) than that, which not only undermines them but would more than likely cause them to lose faith in the manager - whatever statements of togetherness might be put out publicly
Having empathy in that situation is worse than useless |
If he can't see the players looked demoralised on the pitch and something needs to change perhaps his powers of empathy aren't that well tuned.
Will a run of decent performances which will hopefully lead to chalking up some points on the board and breaking away from the drop zone redeem BBM as a manager? | |
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| The coaching team on 14:16 - Feb 11 with 3325 views | fitzochris |
| The coaching team on 12:59 - Feb 11 by D_Alien |
Unfortunately, however empathetic BBM is to how the players feel and how he deals with it, the buck stops at his door for trying to induce a playing style that not only isn't suited to a L1 relegation battle but quite possibly doesn't suit some of the players
If you're instructing them to pass out of defence when their instinct is to clear their lines under pressure, and as a result of that they're caught out and the opposition score, there's nothing more "debilitating" (to use the term he uses in his BBC article) than that, which not only undermines them but would more than likely cause them to lose faith in the manager - whatever statements of togetherness might be put out publicly
Having empathy in that situation is worse than useless |
This is where I completely agree. Potential is one thing, realising it is another. Man management is just one part of the job.
The football on display has been persevered with despite it demonstrably failing again and again (freak results aside). It's either stubbornness or a failure to learn. Either way, it's not a trait we need right now. If that's deemed as not being supportive, I'm not bothered. I support the manager and the players when they are on the pitch 100%, but to not comment on what is being witnessed week in and week out after the fact is negligence in my role as a supporter, in my opinion.
We know BBM can organise a defence, because he's done it before. We've needed a reversion to that for weeks now, months even, but he shows no sign of going back to that.
BBM's situation reminds me a lot of Paul Simpson in that he probably will have future success as a manager, maybe even higher than League One, but I suspect it won't be with us.
I will say again, the Cult of Positivity on social media is as damaging as the naysayers. There is a middle ground here from which conclusions are to be drawn. | |
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| The coaching team on 14:30 - Feb 11 with 3297 views | ChaffRAFC |
| The coaching team on 14:16 - Feb 11 by fitzochris |
This is where I completely agree. Potential is one thing, realising it is another. Man management is just one part of the job.
The football on display has been persevered with despite it demonstrably failing again and again (freak results aside). It's either stubbornness or a failure to learn. Either way, it's not a trait we need right now. If that's deemed as not being supportive, I'm not bothered. I support the manager and the players when they are on the pitch 100%, but to not comment on what is being witnessed week in and week out after the fact is negligence in my role as a supporter, in my opinion.
We know BBM can organise a defence, because he's done it before. We've needed a reversion to that for weeks now, months even, but he shows no sign of going back to that.
BBM's situation reminds me a lot of Paul Simpson in that he probably will have future success as a manager, maybe even higher than League One, but I suspect it won't be with us.
I will say again, the Cult of Positivity on social media is as damaging as the naysayers. There is a middle ground here from which conclusions are to be drawn. |
I mentioned this to the lads on the podcast yesterday but this does indeed have many similarities to the Simpson era albeit a different division and BBM's had a lot longer in the job. The two were very much seen as young up and coming managers with bags of potential. Both have a stubbornness to do things their way, BBM's is in the way of using a system he believe in and Simpson's was a stubbornness to give the younger, flair players enough of a chance. Both did well in the cup competitions and struggled in the league albeit, obviously tougher for BBM being in a division higher while Simpson took a side that finished 5th to 19th.
But, there were avid supporters of Simpson because of his potential, like there are avid supporters of BBM (more so I think for BBM).
The long and short of it is that most of us have been watching football long enough to have a good idea of how this ends and it's probably just a case of when that happens.
For the record, I would absolutely love BBM to turn this around. |  |
| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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| The coaching team on 14:33 - Feb 11 with 3289 views | D_Alien |
| The coaching team on 13:48 - Feb 11 by James1980 |
If he can't see the players looked demoralised on the pitch and something needs to change perhaps his powers of empathy aren't that well tuned.
Will a run of decent performances which will hopefully lead to chalking up some points on the board and breaking away from the drop zone redeem BBM as a manager? |
Yes, obviously James
But not just because of an upturn in form, but because it'll mean he's acquiring (or to be more accurate, rediscovering) the ability to adapt according to now very pressing needs, along the lines that Fitz has highlighted in his post above
I've no doubt there's been a great deal of soul-searching going on at chez BBM after the last couple of days. Let's all hope he reaches the right conclusions
[Post edited 11 Feb 2021 14:35]
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| The coaching team on 15:32 - Feb 11 with 3205 views | AtThePeake |
| The coaching team on 14:16 - Feb 11 by fitzochris |
This is where I completely agree. Potential is one thing, realising it is another. Man management is just one part of the job.
The football on display has been persevered with despite it demonstrably failing again and again (freak results aside). It's either stubbornness or a failure to learn. Either way, it's not a trait we need right now. If that's deemed as not being supportive, I'm not bothered. I support the manager and the players when they are on the pitch 100%, but to not comment on what is being witnessed week in and week out after the fact is negligence in my role as a supporter, in my opinion.
We know BBM can organise a defence, because he's done it before. We've needed a reversion to that for weeks now, months even, but he shows no sign of going back to that.
BBM's situation reminds me a lot of Paul Simpson in that he probably will have future success as a manager, maybe even higher than League One, but I suspect it won't be with us.
I will say again, the Cult of Positivity on social media is as damaging as the naysayers. There is a middle ground here from which conclusions are to be drawn. |
"to not comment on what is being witnessed week in and week out after the fact is negligence in my role as a supporter, in my opinion."
Nail, meet head.
This has been the most annoying thing about the aftermath of this result to me, not so much on this site but elsewhere. Some fans just completely trying to shut down fellow supporters because their opinions don't align. It's a dangerous precedent to set if you want to stop supporters from voicing their opinions simply because they are 'negative' (I would argue that anyone that believes Tuesday night was representative of our capabilities as a team has a very negative view of our playing squad) and it's completely unrealistic to expect any positive comments after a dreadful performance and 1-4 home defeat to a fellow bottom-half side, never mind solely positive comments. |  |
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| The coaching team on 16:37 - Feb 11 with 3084 views | judd |
| The coaching team on 14:30 - Feb 11 by ChaffRAFC |
I mentioned this to the lads on the podcast yesterday but this does indeed have many similarities to the Simpson era albeit a different division and BBM's had a lot longer in the job. The two were very much seen as young up and coming managers with bags of potential. Both have a stubbornness to do things their way, BBM's is in the way of using a system he believe in and Simpson's was a stubbornness to give the younger, flair players enough of a chance. Both did well in the cup competitions and struggled in the league albeit, obviously tougher for BBM being in a division higher while Simpson took a side that finished 5th to 19th.
But, there were avid supporters of Simpson because of his potential, like there are avid supporters of BBM (more so I think for BBM).
The long and short of it is that most of us have been watching football long enough to have a good idea of how this ends and it's probably just a case of when that happens.
For the record, I would absolutely love BBM to turn this around. |
MBB? |  |
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| The coaching team on 16:43 - Feb 11 with 3071 views | DaleiLama |
| The coaching team on 15:32 - Feb 11 by AtThePeake |
"to not comment on what is being witnessed week in and week out after the fact is negligence in my role as a supporter, in my opinion."
Nail, meet head.
This has been the most annoying thing about the aftermath of this result to me, not so much on this site but elsewhere. Some fans just completely trying to shut down fellow supporters because their opinions don't align. It's a dangerous precedent to set if you want to stop supporters from voicing their opinions simply because they are 'negative' (I would argue that anyone that believes Tuesday night was representative of our capabilities as a team has a very negative view of our playing squad) and it's completely unrealistic to expect any positive comments after a dreadful performance and 1-4 home defeat to a fellow bottom-half side, never mind solely positive comments. |
Just heard Eddie Jones being asked about social media. He said it's the modern day equivalent of the toilet wall. Back in the day, it was the way certain opinions were voiced by certain people, the toilet being the perfect medium for them. Brilliant analogy in many respects, an on-line toilet wall. |  |
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| The coaching team on 17:11 - Feb 11 with 3026 views | boromat |
| The coaching team on 16:43 - Feb 11 by DaleiLama |
Just heard Eddie Jones being asked about social media. He said it's the modern day equivalent of the toilet wall. Back in the day, it was the way certain opinions were voiced by certain people, the toilet being the perfect medium for them. Brilliant analogy in many respects, an on-line toilet wall. |
If we ever wanted to name the forum that would be in with a shout  | |
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| The coaching team on 17:16 - Feb 11 with 3022 views | davidab2202 |
Let me say that I would be thrilled if BBM can turn our present situation around,but with head ruling heart I am fearing the worst. Not to sure that replacing him would have the result we all hope for in retaining our League 1 status.
Feel that the recruitment in January was very much on a wing and a prayer---Yes 4 players have been recruited but there is minimal experience of senior football between all 4 of them. I find it of concern when other teams probably with a similar budget--Barrow and Burton brought in far more players than we achieved yet the claim appears to be that there are no funds available to recruit at Dale. Perhaps there is also a need to be realistic when looking at our last home game when the opponents could field a loan player who in the not to distant past was a £4 million pound signing | | | |
| The coaching team on 18:05 - Feb 11 with 2949 views | Hopwoodblue |
| The coaching team on 12:13 - Feb 11 by James1980 |
Humphrys was saying in a recent interview, something along the lines of BBM is about 10 years ahead of his time in terms of man management.
Hopefully the team can put together a run of results. |
Sadly he’s also ten years ahead of himself with the instructions he asks his league one standard players to carry out.
You’re not a Premier League manager yet Brian. |  |
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| The coaching team on 18:36 - Feb 11 with 2880 views | finberty |
| The coaching team on 16:37 - Feb 11 by judd |
MBB? |
siht? |  | | |
| The coaching team on 20:24 - Feb 11 with 2698 views | TVOS1907 |
| The coaching team on 14:16 - Feb 11 by fitzochris |
This is where I completely agree. Potential is one thing, realising it is another. Man management is just one part of the job.
The football on display has been persevered with despite it demonstrably failing again and again (freak results aside). It's either stubbornness or a failure to learn. Either way, it's not a trait we need right now. If that's deemed as not being supportive, I'm not bothered. I support the manager and the players when they are on the pitch 100%, but to not comment on what is being witnessed week in and week out after the fact is negligence in my role as a supporter, in my opinion.
We know BBM can organise a defence, because he's done it before. We've needed a reversion to that for weeks now, months even, but he shows no sign of going back to that.
BBM's situation reminds me a lot of Paul Simpson in that he probably will have future success as a manager, maybe even higher than League One, but I suspect it won't be with us.
I will say again, the Cult of Positivity on social media is as damaging as the naysayers. There is a middle ground here from which conclusions are to be drawn. |
Excellent post, Chris. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| The coaching team on 09:34 - Feb 12 with 2313 views | DaleiLama |
There's this:
And there's this for the same period.
P7 W1 D4 L2 pts 7 F 17 A 18.
Fix the hole in the bucket Brian, please. | |
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| The coaching team on 11:17 - Feb 12 with 2230 views | pioneer |
| The coaching team on 09:34 - Feb 12 by DaleiLama |
There's this:
And there's this for the same period.
P7 W1 D4 L2 pts 7 F 17 A 18.
Fix the hole in the bucket Brian, please. |
With what shall i fix it dear lama dear lama? | | | |
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