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I have supported this club for 56 years,half of them as a season ticket holder.No big deal, just fact. The history of my club has been littered with great people trying their best,facing great obstacles just to enable us to survive.Throughout we have maintained league status through dire circumstances.People throughout time have dipped into their own pockets to ensure our own survival. Thanks to the realection process of the past our league tenure survived another year. Yet I digress.To be compared with bottomley is a tad sad just because I see issues differently.I have the upmost respect for all who helped potentially defeat this hostile takeover,but my point was going in to the second half of the season with an inexperienced squad and potentially losing some of our better players to me is a cause for concern.Bringing new players in will be a bonus, hopefully they gel and transform us into a more consistent team,but I fear for us and I won't hide from that There is no re-election process and bottomley and his cohorts will have achieved their goal As for the EFL,I hope you in the know are confident that severe sanctions will be implemented on these criminals because nothing has been done over previous years this has been happening.How many clubs have to die or be critically injured before they act.l am waiting to be pleasantly surprised Yes I am cinical.Against all the odds we had 7+ years of relative success and we had our legs cut from underus right under our noses,within the club with not a hint of questioning. I love my club and the soul within it.I am glad supporters now have a voice.I speak these thoughts only on the second half of the season as you are all right,if we survive unscathed the short to medium term looks promising. Up the Dale
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I will tell you why I feel cheated. on 20:19 - Jan 2 with 4598 views
Apologies for comparing you to Bottomley it was very much tongue in cheek.
Your post just riled me. On New Year's Day after the year we've had to post such negative drivel. We should be very much confident in ourselves now and be looking forward to the rest of the season on and off the pitch while always staying vigilant to the off field topics and realistic to the on field subjects. Now is not the time for any negativity, we've had enough of that!
Your previous post was very much focused on the off the field topics and not the footballing topics related to the second half of the season as you suggest.
Anyway once again apologies. And a new thread wasn't required a simple reply in the original thread would have sufficed.
"we had our legs cut from underus right under our noses,within the club with not a hint of questioning"
WTF?
There's a thread linked on your previous thread (why start another one?) which demonstrates there was a huge amount of questioning before the dam broke at the EGM last June
As kel alluded to, we have to question your motivation in posting. Anyone can say they've supported the club for a lifetime
Simply looking at on the pitch: we are a much better team playing better than we did last season. Apart from the first few months, the previous managerial regime seemed to struggle identifying that finding a way to play effectively with what we’ve got. That is quite obviously not the case now, and Stockdale’s interviews are a clear indicator of how he doesn’t overlook issues.
Would also argue the squad is far from inexperienced apart from the options at centre half which may be addressed anyway. If O’Connell leaves, that would indeed require someone of a similar ilk to replace him but that’s it. And we are consistent if there’s an acceptance this is a season of some transition, similar amounts of wins, losses and draws does not mean you end up in danger of relegation. To get more consistently positive results from here on in would actually mean we have a chance at the play-offs. Carry on as we are and it’ll be between 55-60 points and mid table.
Stuck in my old ways.My club was a term of endearment where one felt as one with every other supporter when not many turned up.Infact at one time there was so few it seemed like it was my club. Not always a doom and gloom merchant.I guess after so long supporting our club it became ingrained in me.
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I will tell you why I feel cheated. on 22:12 - Jan 2 with 4176 views
I will tell you why I feel cheated. on 21:58 - Jan 2 by todfest
Stuck in my old ways.My club was a term of endearment where one felt as one with every other supporter when not many turned up.Infact at one time there was so few it seemed like it was my club. Not always a doom and gloom merchant.I guess after so long supporting our club it became ingrained in me.
At least you haven't started a new thread titled "My club"
I will tell you why I feel cheated. on 20:24 - Jan 2 by D_Alien
"we had our legs cut from underus right under our noses,within the club with not a hint of questioning"
WTF?
There's a thread linked on your previous thread (why start another one?) which demonstrates there was a huge amount of questioning before the dam broke at the EGM last June
As kel alluded to, we have to question your motivation in posting. Anyone can say they've supported the club for a lifetime
No apologies from me
[Post edited 2 Jan 2022 20:26]
I see and share your exasperation DA.
There appears to be an attempt to sew disquiet where there is not any.
Let's go through who "cut our legs from under us" and how they may have done so looking back at facts.
Here IMO looking back at the dates is where the planning started for a controlled relegation and a secret sale started.
June 2020.
If everyone recalls, our talisman striker Ian Henderson called it as he saw it:
"To find out my 7 1/2 year association with AFC Rochdale was coming to an end via social media was a shock to say the least.
“I only received an email yesterday morning confirming that the offer the club had previously made to extend my contract was being retracted and I was therefore being released.
“I am not just shocked but unbelievably upset and disappointed to have found this out in this manner.
“It was always my intention to try and stay at Rochdale and make it to my testimonial year and try and become the all time top scorer of the football club.
“I had been in negotiations with the football club, for some time, regarding an extension prior to the covid-19 pandemic but if I am honest the lines of communication were extremely inconsistent to say the least.
“I was not trying to ask for more money than what the club was offering and we ended up at a stand-off over some minor details. The negotiations became protracted and it became clear I was not being told the full truth."
Chairman Andrew Kilpatrick resigns citing "personal reasons"
April 2021
29th April - Matthew Southall, Andrew Curran and Alexander Jarvis meet at Rochdale FC. Fat Pat provides the chip barms to all except one attendee. Half of Rochdale witness Southall, Curran and Jarvis at the club cracking jokes and smiles.
30th April - the former CEO provides an update to fans via the club's Youtube channel. It says we must have investment.
May 2021
1st May Rochdale relegated at home to Doncaster Rovers
DATE UNKNOWN Morton House buy significant stake in the club from private shareholders
DATE UNKNOWN Andrew Curran makes homophobic remark in official FA/EFL meeting.
August 2021
5th August Daily Telegraph reports investigation of a "homophobic slur" is underway
Alexander Jarvis admits to hostile takeover. The call nevertheless prompted a WhatsApp message from Alexander Jarvis, who described himself as an adviser to what he admitted was a “hostile takeover” and said that Curran was “a bit of a recluse”.
EFL issue multiple individuals notice of the commencement of disciplinary investigations.
Morton House inform the EFL that it is formally withdrawing from the approval process and plans to divest the shares acquired in the Club at the earliest opportunity.
EFL confirm Morton House are refusing to co-operate: Furthermore, Morton House MGT, its directors, and representatives, have confirmed to the League they are refusing to co-operate with the League’s ongoing investigations. Despite these developments, the EFL will be continuing with its disciplinary investigations into this matter and will take the most appropriate action available to it under its Regulations.
29 September 5 months after attending a meeting at Rochdale alongside Curran and Jarvis, Matthew Southall announces that he has a deal to buy 25% of Rochdale AFC.
Southall has been on the scene in the background for 5 months at this point.
12th October BBC produce an article which is deemed incorrect forcing the BBC to rewrite it.
26th October BBC produce version two of their article
BBC confirm: Morton House planned to take a majority stake in Rochdale through private, independent deals with seven shareholders. But, after talks with the influential Dale Trust fans group, former chairman Andrew Kelly did not sell his shares, which left Morton House with a 42% stake in the club.
BBC also note on Matthew Southall: BBC Sport understands Southall, who has recently moved to Dubai with his family, has no desire to get involved in the day-to-day running of Rochdale.
Rochdale made a profit of £1,360,234 in the year to 31 May 2020 just before Ian Henderson was released.
Net assets at 31 May 2021 were £2,720,401.
The figures were released just before the 1 June 2021 AGM
To believe the financials are right, the story that followed it has to be viewed.
The actions of June 2020 onwards prior to Morton House in July 2021 saw: * Playing assets being run down and the squad deteriorated deteriorated * The Chairman (and owner of 110,000) shares walk away for "personal reasons" * Controlled relegation in 2020/21 playing dire turgid football which we all watched on IFollow * An attempted sale to Martin Halsall which was withdrawn when Halsall withdrew * An EGM on needed investment which was withdrawn * Brian Barry-Murphy asking to be released from his contract in June 2021
Perhaps Ian Henderson is the one who should feel cheated.
[Post edited 2 Jan 2022 22:29]
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
I will tell you why I feel cheated. on 21:58 - Jan 2 by todfest
Stuck in my old ways.My club was a term of endearment where one felt as one with every other supporter when not many turned up.Infact at one time there was so few it seemed like it was my club. Not always a doom and gloom merchant.I guess after so long supporting our club it became ingrained in me.
You just come across as a smacked arse.
I was there when you claim you were. I don't feel like you.
Don't play the sympathy card either, in that a lifetime of watching Dale has turned you into a gloom and doom merchant. I don't buy it at all. Big Kindo started watching us two years before the club was formed, and in his effervescent manner thinks we'll win the Cup every year and then the European Cup thereafter.
A real Dale fan is an eternal optimist. You've betrayed your attempt by trying to prove yourself through pessimism.
If you were stuck in your old ways, you'd be an optimist.
If it smells of bullshit, it usually is imho. And by God this MB has smelt some bullshit recently!
Here IMO looking back at the dates is where the planning started for a controlled relegation and a secret sale started.
June 2020.
If everyone recalls, our talisman striker Ian Henderson called it as he saw it:
"To find out my 7 1/2 year association with AFC Rochdale was coming to an end via social media was a shock to say the least.
“I only received an email yesterday morning confirming that the offer the club had previously made to extend my contract was being retracted and I was therefore being released.
“I am not just shocked but unbelievably upset and disappointed to have found this out in this manner.
“It was always my intention to try and stay at Rochdale and make it to my testimonial year and try and become the all time top scorer of the football club.
“I had been in negotiations with the football club, for some time, regarding an extension prior to the covid-19 pandemic but if I am honest the lines of communication were extremely inconsistent to say the least.
“I was not trying to ask for more money than what the club was offering and we ended up at a stand-off over some minor details. The negotiations became protracted and it became clear I was not being told the full truth."
Chairman Andrew Kilpatrick resigns citing "personal reasons"
April 2021
29th April - Matthew Southall, Andrew Curran and Alexander Jarvis meet at Rochdale FC. Fat Pat provides the chip barms to all except one attendee. Half of Rochdale witness Southall, Curran and Jarvis at the club cracking jokes and smiles.
30th April - the former CEO provides an update to fans via the club's Youtube channel. It says we must have investment.
May 2021
1st May Rochdale relegated at home to Doncaster Rovers
DATE UNKNOWN Morton House buy significant stake in the club from private shareholders
DATE UNKNOWN Andrew Curran makes homophobic remark in official FA/EFL meeting.
August 2021
5th August Daily Telegraph reports investigation of a "homophobic slur" is underway
Alexander Jarvis admits to hostile takeover. The call nevertheless prompted a WhatsApp message from Alexander Jarvis, who described himself as an adviser to what he admitted was a “hostile takeover” and said that Curran was “a bit of a recluse”.
EFL issue multiple individuals notice of the commencement of disciplinary investigations.
Morton House inform the EFL that it is formally withdrawing from the approval process and plans to divest the shares acquired in the Club at the earliest opportunity.
EFL confirm Morton House are refusing to co-operate: Furthermore, Morton House MGT, its directors, and representatives, have confirmed to the League they are refusing to co-operate with the League’s ongoing investigations. Despite these developments, the EFL will be continuing with its disciplinary investigations into this matter and will take the most appropriate action available to it under its Regulations.
29 September 5 months after attending a meeting at Rochdale alongside Curran and Jarvis, Matthew Southall announces that he has a deal to buy 25% of Rochdale AFC.
Southall has been on the scene in the background for 5 months at this point.
12th October BBC produce an article which is deemed incorrect forcing the BBC to rewrite it.
26th October BBC produce version two of their article
BBC confirm: Morton House planned to take a majority stake in Rochdale through private, independent deals with seven shareholders. But, after talks with the influential Dale Trust fans group, former chairman Andrew Kelly did not sell his shares, which left Morton House with a 42% stake in the club.
BBC also note on Matthew Southall: BBC Sport understands Southall, who has recently moved to Dubai with his family, has no desire to get involved in the day-to-day running of Rochdale.
Rochdale made a profit of £1,360,234 in the year to 31 May 2020 just before Ian Henderson was released.
Net assets at 31 May 2021 were £2,720,401.
The figures were released just before the 1 June 2021 AGM
To believe the financials are right, the story that followed it has to be viewed.
The actions of June 2020 onwards prior to Morton House in July 2021 saw: * Playing assets being run down and the squad deteriorated deteriorated * The Chairman (and owner of 110,000) shares walk away for "personal reasons" * Controlled relegation in 2020/21 playing dire turgid football which we all watched on IFollow * An attempted sale to Martin Halsall which was withdrawn when Halsall withdrew * An EGM on needed investment which was withdrawn * Brian Barry-Murphy asking to be released from his contract in June 2021
Perhaps Ian Henderson is the one who should feel cheated.
[Post edited 2 Jan 2022 22:29]
Concrete evidence coming to light that the previous regime colluded in "controlled relegation" would be explosive
I include BBM in "previous regime" but as your timeline indicates, his sudden departure a couple of days after Bottomley left the building... coincidence?
I will tell you why I feel cheated. on 22:58 - Jan 2 by D_Alien
Concrete evidence coming to light that the previous regime colluded in "controlled relegation" would be explosive
I include BBM in "previous regime" but as your timeline indicates, his sudden departure a couple of days after Bottomley left the building... coincidence?
[Post edited 2 Jan 2022 23:00]
All supporters have done is bond together and pool their information.
They've set that out logically and then asked some questions from what the whole picture shows.
The difference for me with BBM compared to the former CEO is that BBM walked out on Rochdale.
But crucially, all documented and evidenceable from sources in the public domain.
There is only something like 140 days between the Chairman resigning (February) and the ex-CEO and BBM leaving (June).
That's unheard of in a football club.
Equally unheard of is the speed of which a self admitted (from Alexander Jarvis) hostile takeover came.
And then Fat Pat disclosed the chip barm customers from April's secret Southall, Curran and Jarvis meeting.
Matthew Southall at Rochdale in April 2021. I think it was all supposed to be kept secret but let's be honest, Jarvis disclosed so much information in July that everything came out into the open.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
RAFCBLUE - I'm not an expert on company law by any means, so hopefully you can help...
If directors (or 'persons with significant control') of a business were to deliberately 'mismanage' the company to the detriment of its shareholders etc, does that mean laws have been broken? If that 'mismanagement' has devalued the shares held by shareholders, and also created additional creditors through loans etc being paid back, including maybe to HMRC, that the 'mismanagement' meant were less likely to be paid back, and therefore were not taken in 'good faith', are there any additional laws being broken?
The managed relegation theory has been debated several times on here, but when facts / events are laid out in a timeline like you have, sprinkled with various interviews & statements along the way, (and the introduction of multiple new roles to the club, creating an even bigger drain on finances and then due to tenure they probably wouldn't be entitled to payoffs in a redundancy event), a person could come to the conclusion that 'Rochdale AFC Limited' was being methodically and purposefully weakened from top to bottom, maybe ready for a 'fait accompli' event of financial issues, relegation from the EFL, and the start of an an asset stripping hostile takeover.
My stomach turns just at the thought that this could be the case, but after the last 6/7 months nothing would surprise me... & if it is a case that illegality may have happened, would it be better if we refer ourselves to the relevant authority with all available evidence, and make it clear it was the actions of individuals within the business (not the business itself) that got us to that point?
[Post edited 3 Jan 2022 8:37]
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I will tell you why I feel cheated. on 09:06 - Jan 3 with 3565 views
I will tell you why I feel cheated. on 08:35 - Jan 3 by HullDale
RAFCBLUE - I'm not an expert on company law by any means, so hopefully you can help...
If directors (or 'persons with significant control') of a business were to deliberately 'mismanage' the company to the detriment of its shareholders etc, does that mean laws have been broken? If that 'mismanagement' has devalued the shares held by shareholders, and also created additional creditors through loans etc being paid back, including maybe to HMRC, that the 'mismanagement' meant were less likely to be paid back, and therefore were not taken in 'good faith', are there any additional laws being broken?
The managed relegation theory has been debated several times on here, but when facts / events are laid out in a timeline like you have, sprinkled with various interviews & statements along the way, (and the introduction of multiple new roles to the club, creating an even bigger drain on finances and then due to tenure they probably wouldn't be entitled to payoffs in a redundancy event), a person could come to the conclusion that 'Rochdale AFC Limited' was being methodically and purposefully weakened from top to bottom, maybe ready for a 'fait accompli' event of financial issues, relegation from the EFL, and the start of an an asset stripping hostile takeover.
My stomach turns just at the thought that this could be the case, but after the last 6/7 months nothing would surprise me... & if it is a case that illegality may have happened, would it be better if we refer ourselves to the relevant authority with all available evidence, and make it clear it was the actions of individuals within the business (not the business itself) that got us to that point?
[Post edited 3 Jan 2022 8:37]
There are two "authorities" in play here with different roles and responsibilities.
First, the competitions and the integrity of them is run by the EFL. There is nothing at all in the timelines of evidence that all the supporters have pieced together to suggest that there is any sporting integrity issue.
We finished 21st in 2020/21 and we were relegated on merit having played the same number (46) of games as everyone else. It may stick in the craw that having seen Henderson released and many others and then those filled with unproven players be the reason we were relegated it is what is it.
Second, the corporate stuff is referenced to the Companies Act. All directors have a responsibility to shareholders - and that is ALL shareholders not just one or two.
I don't think there has been any devaluation and that is hard to tell in any event because the accounts we all need to see to form that view are the ones to 31 May 2021 - which end the day before the AGM/EGM.
The last set published before the June 2021 AGM/EGM should be taken with a pinch of salt because although they showed a profit that profit is now against the backdrop of recent events.
How to take action if you have concerns?
(1) Refer ourselves to the EFL and co-operate fully. The EFL are all over this case and the club have said multiple times that they are providing full co-operating with the EFL. This is balanced against Morton House who the EFL have said are refusing to co-operate.
You have to think that this is going nowhere until the EFL conclude their investigation and report.
(2) If you are a shareholder who bought from a share issue (as opposed to a private transaction) you can only take action is you were missold but it very distant and expensive to approve and as Mark Hodkinson article stated early in 2021:
Each share has generally cost between £1 and £2. Most own just a handful and, really, they stand as quasi-souvenirs.
What happens if you were a new party (lets say a consortium involving Matthew Southall, Andrew Curran and Alexander Jarvis) WRONGLY convinced into overpaying a small number of private individuals (sellers) for Rochdale AFC shares only to find you have massively overpaid based on facts and evidence that come out?
Sellers will always claim "caveat emptor" (the principle that the buyer alone is responsible for checking the quality and suitability of goods before a purchase is made) but when you buy something in a rush from people who are keen to take your money off you, you should do all your due diligence checks.
The point there is to go back to the seller. If the representations (called warranties) made by the seller were bad then there is a legal route to getting your money back by enacting those warranties and the private transactions is reversed (i.e. you get your money back and costs and the seller gets their shares back).
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
Thank you, that is really useful info (as always!)
In my mind, then, it would make sense for Morton House to be going after Bottomley, Rawlinson, Kilpatrick & the Americans to get their money back? Unless Jarvis was actually acting on behalf of the club (& not MH) in which case I think MH's first point of call would be him?
The fact MH have, as recently as last week, sent legal letters to the trust / club may suggest they know the money paid to the sellers has already gone and they have no chance of getting it back.
Based on what I've read so far, going into 2022 I think I'd be a lot more concerned if I was one of the sellers than if I was the club. Hopefully I'm right with that assumption.
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I will tell you why I feel cheated. on 09:36 - Jan 3 with 3480 views
I will tell you why I feel cheated. on 09:13 - Jan 3 by HullDale
Thank you, that is really useful info (as always!)
In my mind, then, it would make sense for Morton House to be going after Bottomley, Rawlinson, Kilpatrick & the Americans to get their money back? Unless Jarvis was actually acting on behalf of the club (& not MH) in which case I think MH's first point of call would be him?
The fact MH have, as recently as last week, sent legal letters to the trust / club may suggest they know the money paid to the sellers has already gone and they have no chance of getting it back.
Based on what I've read so far, going into 2022 I think I'd be a lot more concerned if I was one of the sellers than if I was the club. Hopefully I'm right with that assumption.
In my mind, then, it would make sense for Morton House to be going after Bottomley, Rawlinson, Kilpatrick & the Americans to get their money back? Unless Jarvis was actually acting on behalf of the club (& not MH) in which case I think MH's first point of call would be him?
Absolutely. The club has had nothing to do with private transactions between private shareholders sold on a commercial basis, nor I would expect are privy to the commercial terms.
If I was the Morton House lawyer I'd have been going back to those selling shareholders, their lawyers and their agents as early as August to check what, if any false representations had been made by a selling shareholders.
This is a great guide from leading UK law firm Ashurst
Share or asset sale warranties have two main functions. First, warranties sought in respect of a particular subject require the seller to disclose information about any known problems to the buyer which relate to the subject. Secondly, they are a means of allocating risk as between the buyer and the seller as they provide the buyer with a remedy (i.e. a breach of warranty claim) if the statements made in the warranties are untrue and cause the buyer loss.
There is no doubt whatsoever those selling shareholders have caused Morton House loss but it will depend on what warranties and indemnities were agreed.
Simply because they (or those representing them) convinced Morton House to pay circa £1.2m for something that was worth significantly less than £1.2m. Morton House probably have a claim against Alexander Jarvis too for breach of agency given he was the one leaking confidential information to the Daily Telegraph and the Manchester Evening news which surfaced in August 2021.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
I will tell you why I feel cheated. on 09:13 - Jan 3 by HullDale
Thank you, that is really useful info (as always!)
In my mind, then, it would make sense for Morton House to be going after Bottomley, Rawlinson, Kilpatrick & the Americans to get their money back? Unless Jarvis was actually acting on behalf of the club (& not MH) in which case I think MH's first point of call would be him?
The fact MH have, as recently as last week, sent legal letters to the trust / club may suggest they know the money paid to the sellers has already gone and they have no chance of getting it back.
Based on what I've read so far, going into 2022 I think I'd be a lot more concerned if I was one of the sellers than if I was the club. Hopefully I'm right with that assumption.
Would love to see the contents of that communication from MH’s solicitor… IMO as well as going after the previous board/ceo for redress they may be trying to pull a fast one by accusing the club & trust of colluding in the new share issue to deliberately dilute the value of MH’s holding? I’m certainly no company law expert. They are £1M plus out of pocket but would they be able to finance a court case?
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I will tell you why I feel cheated. on 14:14 - Jan 3 with 3009 views
I will tell you why I feel cheated. on 13:44 - Jan 3 by Plattyswrinklynuts
Would love to see the contents of that communication from MH’s solicitor… IMO as well as going after the previous board/ceo for redress they may be trying to pull a fast one by accusing the club & trust of colluding in the new share issue to deliberately dilute the value of MH’s holding? I’m certainly no company law expert. They are £1M plus out of pocket but would they be able to finance a court case?
The former CEO, David Bottomley knew all the rules of the Articles of Association and the Companies Act.
He actually told everyone about them here in a Youtube video published on 30th April 2021, 24 hours AFTER Southall, Curran and Jarvis were seen at the club by Fat Pat. Here is the video where that knowledge is espoused to those of us non-experts:
Direct quote from the transcript of the video:
"We have had NDA's in place with a number of parties and we hope to be very close to be able to put a deal together that we can present to our shareholders that says "These are the people who want to get involved in Rochdale Football club, they have the club at heart as we do and they want to take the club forward in the right direction so the reason for quite a lot of silence in the last few weeks - and I accept communication could have been better - is down to the fact that we are involved in very sensitive negotiations with people to actually want to come forward and get involved in this absolutely wonderful football club."
The other direct quote which is relevant is:
We have actually had a meeting with the Supporters Trust this week and following that meeting we actually spoke to our legal representatives to ask if they would speak to the Supporters Trust and explain the situation - and we did that yesterday, I did that yesterday and the Supporters Trust spoke with our legal people to just give them some advice on the law of the land with regards to the Companies Act and then obviously the Supporter Trust put out a statement last night - a little bit inflammatory - because the truth of the situation is that we are not trying in any way, shape or form to not hold that EGM that they have requested but the request that they make has to comply with both the Articles of Association of Rochdale Association Football Club, our constitution and the law of the land regarding the Companies Act so by networking them with our solicitors we were trying to help by giving them legal advice and I know they are working closely with the Football Supporters Association but to give them advice so that they can come to us with a properly worded request for an EGM which actually complies with the law of the land so that was merely all we were trying to do is trying to help and trying to work with them and as they have said in their statement they are working with their lawyers and the Football Supporters Association legal team to find the right resolution and that is exactly how it should be.
So let me put this into the fact pattern:
This video is from 30th April 2021. The Youtube site timestamps it.
29th April - Southall, Curran and Jarvis turn up for a meeting at the club witnessed by Fat Pat and half of Rochdale.
29th April - Bottomley refers to a meeting with the Trust "yesterday" and tells them that they need to go and get their legal wording right for an EGM which is compliant with the "law of the land"
The Trust, as Bottomley says in the YouTube video did put this out on 29th April 2021.
The Trust did have it right: [b"We remain extremely committed to the EGM that we believe to be the only platform whereby the concerns listed above can be discussed with the necessary accountability."
I will tell you why I feel cheated. on 09:06 - Jan 3 by RAFCBLUE
There are two "authorities" in play here with different roles and responsibilities.
First, the competitions and the integrity of them is run by the EFL. There is nothing at all in the timelines of evidence that all the supporters have pieced together to suggest that there is any sporting integrity issue.
We finished 21st in 2020/21 and we were relegated on merit having played the same number (46) of games as everyone else. It may stick in the craw that having seen Henderson released and many others and then those filled with unproven players be the reason we were relegated it is what is it.
Second, the corporate stuff is referenced to the Companies Act. All directors have a responsibility to shareholders - and that is ALL shareholders not just one or two.
I don't think there has been any devaluation and that is hard to tell in any event because the accounts we all need to see to form that view are the ones to 31 May 2021 - which end the day before the AGM/EGM.
The last set published before the June 2021 AGM/EGM should be taken with a pinch of salt because although they showed a profit that profit is now against the backdrop of recent events.
How to take action if you have concerns?
(1) Refer ourselves to the EFL and co-operate fully. The EFL are all over this case and the club have said multiple times that they are providing full co-operating with the EFL. This is balanced against Morton House who the EFL have said are refusing to co-operate.
You have to think that this is going nowhere until the EFL conclude their investigation and report.
(2) If you are a shareholder who bought from a share issue (as opposed to a private transaction) you can only take action is you were missold but it very distant and expensive to approve and as Mark Hodkinson article stated early in 2021:
Each share has generally cost between £1 and £2. Most own just a handful and, really, they stand as quasi-souvenirs.
What happens if you were a new party (lets say a consortium involving Matthew Southall, Andrew Curran and Alexander Jarvis) WRONGLY convinced into overpaying a small number of private individuals (sellers) for Rochdale AFC shares only to find you have massively overpaid based on facts and evidence that come out?
Sellers will always claim "caveat emptor" (the principle that the buyer alone is responsible for checking the quality and suitability of goods before a purchase is made) but when you buy something in a rush from people who are keen to take your money off you, you should do all your due diligence checks.
The point there is to go back to the seller. If the representations (called warranties) made by the seller were bad then there is a legal route to getting your money back by enacting those warranties and the private transactions is reversed (i.e. you get your money back and costs and the seller gets their shares back).
But would there be warranties in place? The directors didn't have a majority shareholder permission to sell the shares. So this wasn't a takeover as much as they hoped it could be. I doubt any warranties could be issued beyond the quality of the data provided (management accounts, forecasts and regulatory reports). This is likely to drag on and the aggrieved party(ies) will pursue all avenues I am sure.
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I will tell you why I feel cheated. on 14:27 - Jan 3 with 2978 views
I will tell you why I feel cheated. on 14:24 - Jan 3 by Dalenet
But would there be warranties in place? The directors didn't have a majority shareholder permission to sell the shares. So this wasn't a takeover as much as they hoped it could be. I doubt any warranties could be issued beyond the quality of the data provided (management accounts, forecasts and regulatory reports). This is likely to drag on and the aggrieved party(ies) will pursue all avenues I am sure.
Warranties and indemnities can be anything you like to protect the buyer from the seller.
IMO you are really naive buyer if you don't get warranties.
If you think of it like buying a used car, you'd kick the tyres, give it a test drive and check the key parts - alongside a representation from the seller that is was in full working order.
If you drive it off the forecourt with no checks then you've bought it with no comeback!
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
IMO you are really naive buyer if you don't get warranties.
If you think of it like buying a used car, you'd kick the tyres, give it a test drive and check the key parts - alongside a representation from the seller that is was in full working order.
If you drive it off the forecourt with no checks then you've bought it with no comeback!
Indeed. I do deals and I am aware of reps and warranties. I think you may have answered my question. These were chancers who genuinely thought they were going to get a valuable asset via the back door for a comparatively small amount of money. They did have an advisor after all; although he has proven himself to be completely incompetent. Our Board will know if any reps and warranties were issued and will have taken advice on whether they are compromised in their actions.
As the Board was changed prior to any deals on shares being formalised, I fail to see how any competent purchaser can rely on reps and warranties previously issued.
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