| Next firebreak 22:16 - Nov 16 with 16570 views | controversial_jack |
From a source at the Welsh assembly, 21st December. |  | | |  |
| Next firebreak on 14:01 - Nov 17 with 1141 views | onehunglow |
| Next firebreak on 12:11 - Nov 17 by Catullus |
Was the manager wearing a mask? Was he 2 metres away?
If these things cannot be policed then what is the point because yes, people are stupid.
I had to front up to a man and his daughter in a shop queue who were right up close to me, it was before masks were required. They were laughing and joking, he bumped into me a couple of times. Eventually I just faced him and said in a stern voice, we are supposed to stay further apart. It worked though to be honest I half expected him to give me verbals or to get pushy.
These days I go into a shop as infrequently as possible but very few people try to keep distance. |
No he wasn't and neither wore masks.No diability either.He told me when I asked.The jerk said simply HO says we mustn't challenge.I pointed out thy challenge as regards drink tabacco and blade sales as they would paracetamol.
It was and is pure madness.
We ve not been back and go to M@ S where all wear masks and it IS enforced [Post edited 17 Nov 2020 14:02]
| |
| |
| Next firebreak on 14:04 - Nov 17 with 1137 views | onehunglow |
| Next firebreak on 12:12 - Nov 17 by controversial_jack |
I reported B &M stores to the council last week. He said managers attitude was terrible and that they had been told by head office not to challenge non mask wearers.
Council said, companies have duty of care to keep customers safe, but basically there's nothing they can do to enforce it except visit again |
Good man.And they challenge thieves | |
| |
| Next firebreak on 14:19 - Nov 17 with 1118 views | exhmrc1 |
| Next firebreak on 13:53 - Nov 17 by Scotia |
So the reality is the firebreak may have worked in some places but any reduction will be very temporary unfortunately.
Lets get this notion that the firebreak is anything to do with Drakeford put to bed. It isn't. The National Labour leader called for a UK firebreak which at the time Johnson didn't go for. Wales is the only Labour led administration in the UK. It was political decision made by Starmer and nothing more.
It should have been longer and shallower, we should have followed the example set in Northern Ireland where more businesses stayed open under tighter controls and cases have dropped by about 50%.
We ended up with the ludicrous situations like libraries in areas of Wales with hardly any infections being closed but the highest areas of infection allowing libraries to open e.g. Universities.
Neath - Port Talbot now has considerably less restrictions than when it was placed in local lockdown despite having far more (and rising) case numbers.
I can see us needing to be back in lockdown before Christmas but it being delayed until early January. |
Yet more nonsense from you that dont fit with the facts.
The figures show there has been 22 cases in Brynmill, 13 cases in Sketty, 22 in St Thomas, 33 in Uplands and 38 in Skewen and Jersey Marine, That is 128 cases in student areas in the last 7 days and not all these will be students compared to 98 in Pontardawe and 36 in Sandfields ie 134 in the last 7 days. 2 areas of Neath Port Talbot have more cases than the student areas. Students only form a fraction of all the cases that are occurring not just locally but throughout Wales. Yet you choose to blame students not based on facts which is true of everything you post. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 14:21 - Nov 17 with 1116 views | controversial_jack |
| Next firebreak on 14:19 - Nov 17 by exhmrc1 |
Yet more nonsense from you that dont fit with the facts.
The figures show there has been 22 cases in Brynmill, 13 cases in Sketty, 22 in St Thomas, 33 in Uplands and 38 in Skewen and Jersey Marine, That is 128 cases in student areas in the last 7 days and not all these will be students compared to 98 in Pontardawe and 36 in Sandfields ie 134 in the last 7 days. 2 areas of Neath Port Talbot have more cases than the student areas. Students only form a fraction of all the cases that are occurring not just locally but throughout Wales. Yet you choose to blame students not based on facts which is true of everything you post. |
It was much higher for students a while ago, but they have probably infected themselves now, so it's lower new cases | | | |
| Next firebreak on 14:26 - Nov 17 with 1113 views | exhmrc1 |
| Next firebreak on 14:21 - Nov 17 by controversial_jack |
It was much higher for students a while ago, but they have probably infected themselves now, so it's lower new cases |
Bangor which houses Bangor University has had 10 cases in the last 7 days but people like to blame students. It isnt the university areas in Cardiff that has been causing the figures there.
Places like Caerphilly, Merthyr Tydfil and Blaenau Gwent have been the highest in Wales. No mass amounts of students there.
There was always going to be problems initially when students returned to university. They live closely together in houses of mass occupancy and halls of residence. If 1 came to university with it then it would spread and that is what happened but even at the peak it was only a small fraction of the overall cases.
The virus started spreading before students started arriving. It was fuelled by people returning from abroad and going into pubs and passing it on in houses. People who returned with the virus had children going to school with it.
Students have undoubtedly had an impact but throughout Wales it has only had a small impact. Many of the Welsh authorities have very few students including some of the areas that have been showing large amounts of cases. [Post edited 17 Nov 2020 14:34]
| | | |
| Next firebreak on 14:35 - Nov 17 with 1108 views | Scotia |
| Next firebreak on 14:19 - Nov 17 by exhmrc1 |
Yet more nonsense from you that dont fit with the facts.
The figures show there has been 22 cases in Brynmill, 13 cases in Sketty, 22 in St Thomas, 33 in Uplands and 38 in Skewen and Jersey Marine, That is 128 cases in student areas in the last 7 days and not all these will be students compared to 98 in Pontardawe and 36 in Sandfields ie 134 in the last 7 days. 2 areas of Neath Port Talbot have more cases than the student areas. Students only form a fraction of all the cases that are occurring not just locally but throughout Wales. Yet you choose to blame students not based on facts which is true of everything you post. |
What in that post is nonsense and doesn't fit with the facts? Please tell me if you can.
I'm not on about the last seven days. I hope to God the student areas infections are petering out otherwise there is no hope for humanity. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 15:13 - Nov 17 with 1098 views | exhmrc1 |
| Next firebreak on 14:35 - Nov 17 by Scotia |
What in that post is nonsense and doesn't fit with the facts? Please tell me if you can.
I'm not on about the last seven days. I hope to God the student areas infections are petering out otherwise there is no hope for humanity. |
The rates throughout Wales in October never were that high for students compared to others. They have averaged around 10% of the overall amount. It will be higher in places like Jersey Marine and Brynmill where large amounts of the students live. Similarly in Cathays and Roath in Cardiff but throughout Wales it has been a small amount of the cases.
Blaenau Gwent, Merthyr Tydfil and Caerphilly amongst other areas have been showing the highest figures and there are not many students there.
Take the figures for 4 October. There was 432 cases of which just 39 were in Swansea and 49 were in Cardiff. Even if these were all students only 88 would have been from the 2 largest student communities. This is 1/5 of the cases and would in no way all be students.
Take 21 September which was the date freshers came to Swansea university. There were 234 cases in Wales of which 18 were in Swansea. Going further back on 7 September Wales had 133 cases of which 12 were in Swansea. Going back a week earlier when there no students there was 39 cases in Wales of which 7 were in Swansea,
The figures increased from 39 to 133 in 1 week then again to 234 in a fortnight and escalated to 434 in just over a fortnight. This has increased ever since until the last 10 days. The increase started without students being here when you said it could be controlled. The truth is everywhere in the UK failed to do that and the only places that have been successful in keeping cases low have been places that have kept their borders closed. It was a point Piers Morgan put to Matt Hancock yesterday and I have been saying for months. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 15:34 - Nov 17 with 1087 views | Scotia |
| Next firebreak on 15:13 - Nov 17 by exhmrc1 |
The rates throughout Wales in October never were that high for students compared to others. They have averaged around 10% of the overall amount. It will be higher in places like Jersey Marine and Brynmill where large amounts of the students live. Similarly in Cathays and Roath in Cardiff but throughout Wales it has been a small amount of the cases.
Blaenau Gwent, Merthyr Tydfil and Caerphilly amongst other areas have been showing the highest figures and there are not many students there.
Take the figures for 4 October. There was 432 cases of which just 39 were in Swansea and 49 were in Cardiff. Even if these were all students only 88 would have been from the 2 largest student communities. This is 1/5 of the cases and would in no way all be students.
Take 21 September which was the date freshers came to Swansea university. There were 234 cases in Wales of which 18 were in Swansea. Going further back on 7 September Wales had 133 cases of which 12 were in Swansea. Going back a week earlier when there no students there was 39 cases in Wales of which 7 were in Swansea,
The figures increased from 39 to 133 in 1 week then again to 234 in a fortnight and escalated to 434 in just over a fortnight. This has increased ever since until the last 10 days. The increase started without students being here when you said it could be controlled. The truth is everywhere in the UK failed to do that and the only places that have been successful in keeping cases low have been places that have kept their borders closed. It was a point Piers Morgan put to Matt Hancock yesterday and I have been saying for months. |
So you can't tell me what I have said that is wrong then? I'm not surprised.
You've proved yourself wrong in the first paragraph. An average 10% of total infections amongst a maximum of about 3% of the population. Don't you think that is a problem?
So tell me again why could Swansea Uni library open but not a library in somewhere like Cardigan?
Why do residents of Neath - Port Talbot have less restrictions on them now than when they went in to local lockdown despite there being far higher cases in the area?
It just makes no sense. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Next firebreak on 16:14 - Nov 17 with 1074 views | exhmrc1 |
| Next firebreak on 15:34 - Nov 17 by Scotia |
So you can't tell me what I have said that is wrong then? I'm not surprised.
You've proved yourself wrong in the first paragraph. An average 10% of total infections amongst a maximum of about 3% of the population. Don't you think that is a problem?
So tell me again why could Swansea Uni library open but not a library in somewhere like Cardigan?
Why do residents of Neath - Port Talbot have less restrictions on them now than when they went in to local lockdown despite there being far higher cases in the area?
It just makes no sense. |
As far as Neath Port Talbot and why things are open I have been told many of the cases relate to a care home. They initially found 5 residents and 1 staff member positive then mass tested everyone and loads of residents and staff have tested positive. If that proves to be the case then the figures will drop by the weekend and it isnt actually in the community but confined to 1 place. Similar to other cases with other nurses and some of the food factories. It is also a case that the responses from the lighthouse labs that you championed over NHS labs back months ago are taking ages to get results through and sometimes are many days coming onto the system. There are very few areas in Neath Port Talbot with high figures. It has tended to be Pontardawe and surrounding area and Aberafan and Sandfields.
I dont think your arguments on students suggest there is a problem. People living in close proximity in Halls of residence and Houses of Multiple Occupancy were always going to have higher rates of the virus than those living on their own or with partners. It is very similar to the problems faced with the virus spreading in hospitals and care homes.
What you continually say wrong is that students are a large part of the problem . The evidence suggests they are a very small part of the problem.
You continually ignore how the virus has increased since Johnson brought in his air bridges. Any fool should be able to see the continued increase since people came back from holidays in August from places which supposedly were safe. Once the virus is somewhere it spreads and has continued to spread here.
The numbers have been increasing since and are now going down.
18 August 24 new cases
1 September 51 new cases over doubled in 2 weeks
15 September 110 new cases over doubled in 2 weeks
29 September 286 new cases over doubled in 2 weeks
13 October 764 over doubled in 2 weeks
27 October 1207 nearly doubled in 2 weeks
This was increasing before students came here and has continued on its path. Students might have added to the problem and it increased it but this started with opening borders and pubs and has continued at a largely similar rate since then. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 16:31 - Nov 17 with 1062 views | pencoedjack |
| Next firebreak on 14:26 - Nov 17 by exhmrc1 |
Bangor which houses Bangor University has had 10 cases in the last 7 days but people like to blame students. It isnt the university areas in Cardiff that has been causing the figures there.
Places like Caerphilly, Merthyr Tydfil and Blaenau Gwent have been the highest in Wales. No mass amounts of students there.
There was always going to be problems initially when students returned to university. They live closely together in houses of mass occupancy and halls of residence. If 1 came to university with it then it would spread and that is what happened but even at the peak it was only a small fraction of the overall cases.
The virus started spreading before students started arriving. It was fuelled by people returning from abroad and going into pubs and passing it on in houses. People who returned with the virus had children going to school with it.
Students have undoubtedly had an impact but throughout Wales it has only had a small impact. Many of the Welsh authorities have very few students including some of the areas that have been showing large amounts of cases. [Post edited 17 Nov 2020 14:34]
|
Ill say it as it is high numbers of people in the likes of Merthyr & Blaenau Gwent are thick as fuk or don't care about the consequences.
It has nothing to do with students or being in a deprived part of the country, people don't listen, they go to the pub the day lockdown ends & carry on drinking in peoples houses when they should be isolating.
We either need to shut down pubs & ban people going into shops without masks or just live with the consequences every couple of months until the vaccine is available for everyone (or at least to stop the spread at a lower %) [Post edited 17 Nov 2020 16:39]
|  | | |
| Next firebreak on 17:05 - Nov 17 with 1055 views | Highjack |
| Next firebreak on 12:12 - Nov 17 by controversial_jack |
I reported B &M stores to the council last week. He said managers attitude was terrible and that they had been told by head office not to challenge non mask wearers.
Council said, companies have duty of care to keep customers safe, but basically there's nothing they can do to enforce it except visit again |
It specifically states in the guidance (for both England and Wales) that you are not to routinely ask for evidence as to why somebody is not able to wear a mask for whatever reason. They’re doing the right thing by not challenging people. All you could ask is “are you able to wear a mask?” And if they answer no then that’s the end of it. Obviously there are people out there who would take advantage of this but the huge majority of people are complying in my experience, although there are a load of idiots who don’t cover their nose and just wear the mask like some sort of chin diaper but that’s another issue. |  |
| |
| Next firebreak on 17:06 - Nov 17 with 1054 views | Scotia |
| Next firebreak on 16:14 - Nov 17 by exhmrc1 |
As far as Neath Port Talbot and why things are open I have been told many of the cases relate to a care home. They initially found 5 residents and 1 staff member positive then mass tested everyone and loads of residents and staff have tested positive. If that proves to be the case then the figures will drop by the weekend and it isnt actually in the community but confined to 1 place. Similar to other cases with other nurses and some of the food factories. It is also a case that the responses from the lighthouse labs that you championed over NHS labs back months ago are taking ages to get results through and sometimes are many days coming onto the system. There are very few areas in Neath Port Talbot with high figures. It has tended to be Pontardawe and surrounding area and Aberafan and Sandfields.
I dont think your arguments on students suggest there is a problem. People living in close proximity in Halls of residence and Houses of Multiple Occupancy were always going to have higher rates of the virus than those living on their own or with partners. It is very similar to the problems faced with the virus spreading in hospitals and care homes.
What you continually say wrong is that students are a large part of the problem . The evidence suggests they are a very small part of the problem.
You continually ignore how the virus has increased since Johnson brought in his air bridges. Any fool should be able to see the continued increase since people came back from holidays in August from places which supposedly were safe. Once the virus is somewhere it spreads and has continued to spread here.
The numbers have been increasing since and are now going down.
18 August 24 new cases
1 September 51 new cases over doubled in 2 weeks
15 September 110 new cases over doubled in 2 weeks
29 September 286 new cases over doubled in 2 weeks
13 October 764 over doubled in 2 weeks
27 October 1207 nearly doubled in 2 weeks
This was increasing before students came here and has continued on its path. Students might have added to the problem and it increased it but this started with opening borders and pubs and has continued at a largely similar rate since then. |
Just words that doesn't address a single point I've made.
Same old story. It is like talking to a wall. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 17:12 - Nov 17 with 1052 views | onehunglow |
Chaps.
Nothing make sense.We are in unchartered waters. We have politicians,scientists,doctors and fans network folk opining differently.
Students not really the yardstick for common sense (sorry PROF) .As for towns like Merthyr,maybe it's a cultural issue.
This might upset but it APPEARS more aflluent areas have less victims maybe because they are smarter and are more strictly adhering to the rules.I love the city of Liverpool but it's no surprise one of the most truculent cities in the UK has had the highest rates. It's cities like this ,Manchester and Newcastle that see clowns flocking to beat covid restrictions and any excuse to get out of it. Result is death for thousands. | |
| |
| Next firebreak on 17:15 - Nov 17 with 1048 views | Highjack |
| Next firebreak on 17:12 - Nov 17 by onehunglow |
Chaps.
Nothing make sense.We are in unchartered waters. We have politicians,scientists,doctors and fans network folk opining differently.
Students not really the yardstick for common sense (sorry PROF) .As for towns like Merthyr,maybe it's a cultural issue.
This might upset but it APPEARS more aflluent areas have less victims maybe because they are smarter and are more strictly adhering to the rules.I love the city of Liverpool but it's no surprise one of the most truculent cities in the UK has had the highest rates. It's cities like this ,Manchester and Newcastle that see clowns flocking to beat covid restrictions and any excuse to get out of it. Result is death for thousands. |
Affluent people are more likely to be able to work from home whilst less well off people tend to live in very high population density areas like tower blocks etc. | |
| |
| Next firebreak on 17:23 - Nov 17 with 1043 views | exhmrc1 |
You asked about libraries. Swansea university library is mainly used by students who are generally young and not in high risk categories. Places like Killay, Clydach and Swansea Central libraries have many older people using them. Far more likely to suffer badly as there will be loads in the at risk categories | | | |
| Next firebreak on 17:26 - Nov 17 with 1041 views | exhmrc1 |
| Next firebreak on 17:12 - Nov 17 by onehunglow |
Chaps.
Nothing make sense.We are in unchartered waters. We have politicians,scientists,doctors and fans network folk opining differently.
Students not really the yardstick for common sense (sorry PROF) .As for towns like Merthyr,maybe it's a cultural issue.
This might upset but it APPEARS more aflluent areas have less victims maybe because they are smarter and are more strictly adhering to the rules.I love the city of Liverpool but it's no surprise one of the most truculent cities in the UK has had the highest rates. It's cities like this ,Manchester and Newcastle that see clowns flocking to beat covid restrictions and any excuse to get out of it. Result is death for thousands. |
I suspect that your comments are largely right but there is also the fact that valley communities are much closer knit than somewhere like Dunvant. Whilst it isnt like it was years ago more people are likely to go into each others homes which does cause some of the problems. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 18:04 - Nov 17 with 1019 views | Catullus |
| Next firebreak on 13:36 - Nov 17 by Scotia |
The science would say otherwise. |
The science does now say kids spread it,
https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus-outbreak-and-
Kids have the virus in their upper respiratory tract though there is no correlation between the amount of virus and severity of symptoms.
If they are breathing it out they are spreading it. As far as I know none of my sons teachers have the vius, yet, but it is spreading amongst the year groups. | |
| |
| Next firebreak on 18:20 - Nov 17 with 1010 views | Gwyn737 |
| Next firebreak on 18:04 - Nov 17 by Catullus |
The science does now say kids spread it,
https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus-outbreak-and-
Kids have the virus in their upper respiratory tract though there is no correlation between the amount of virus and severity of symptoms.
If they are breathing it out they are spreading it. As far as I know none of my sons teachers have the vius, yet, but it is spreading amongst the year groups. |
True. Transmission rates in secondary school has been really high. Interestingly, this hasn’t been the case in primary schools.
It looks with hindsight that the Drakeford firebreak with primary schools and Yrs 7 & 8 left in was a sensible policy. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 18:30 - Nov 17 with 1008 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Next firebreak on 18:20 - Nov 17 by Gwyn737 |
True. Transmission rates in secondary school has been really high. Interestingly, this hasn’t been the case in primary schools.
It looks with hindsight that the Drakeford firebreak with primary schools and Yrs 7 & 8 left in was a sensible policy. |
Staff in secondary schools are very concerned. My daughter teaches in one in West Yorkshire which has 1350 pupils registered in a school designed for 750 pupils. Social distancing is impossible and despite complaints nothing is done. Teachers are vulnerable and one who is nearing retirement in his early 60s is currently fighting for his life on a ventilator. |  |
| |
| Next firebreak on 18:43 - Nov 17 with 1005 views | Gwyn737 |
| Next firebreak on 18:30 - Nov 17 by Joe_bradshaw |
Staff in secondary schools are very concerned. My daughter teaches in one in West Yorkshire which has 1350 pupils registered in a school designed for 750 pupils. Social distancing is impossible and despite complaints nothing is done. Teachers are vulnerable and one who is nearing retirement in his early 60s is currently fighting for his life on a ventilator. |
The difference between primary and secondary in confirmed cases is remarkable - it’s as if the virus knows!
The government messaging has very much been schools are safe. Secondary schools aren’t - particularly if you are vulnerable. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 18:47 - Nov 17 with 999 views | Scotia |
| Next firebreak on 18:04 - Nov 17 by Catullus |
The science does now say kids spread it,
https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus-outbreak-and-
Kids have the virus in their upper respiratory tract though there is no correlation between the amount of virus and severity of symptoms.
If they are breathing it out they are spreading it. As far as I know none of my sons teachers have the vius, yet, but it is spreading amongst the year groups. |
But there are very few cases of children especially those under teenage years instigating a family outbreak.
They may be infectious but definitely not super spreaders. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 18:52 - Nov 17 with 989 views | Scotia |
| Next firebreak on 17:23 - Nov 17 by exhmrc1 |
You asked about libraries. Swansea university library is mainly used by students who are generally young and not in high risk categories. Places like Killay, Clydach and Swansea Central libraries have many older people using them. Far more likely to suffer badly as there will be loads in the at risk categories |
Well that's nonsense.
If it weren't couldn't Drakeford allow libraries to stay open for children to use?
It doesn't change the fact that university libraries were open in areas such as Jersey Marine and Cathays, both areas of high infection, but a library in somewhere of far lower infection, say Penderry, was closed. Even to the most deprived kids in the city. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 19:03 - Nov 17 with 976 views | controversial_jack |
| Next firebreak on 17:05 - Nov 17 by Highjack |
It specifically states in the guidance (for both England and Wales) that you are not to routinely ask for evidence as to why somebody is not able to wear a mask for whatever reason. They’re doing the right thing by not challenging people. All you could ask is “are you able to wear a mask?” And if they answer no then that’s the end of it. Obviously there are people out there who would take advantage of this but the huge majority of people are complying in my experience, although there are a load of idiots who don’t cover their nose and just wear the mask like some sort of chin diaper but that’s another issue. |
They were told by their head office not to challenge customers.Council official said, stores are failing in their duty of care to customers in not enforcing the mask rules.
They are perfectly entailed to refuse entry to those who don't comply, but the stores themselves to implement this policy.
I thought it was law, that masks were mandatory in public buildings and not just guidlines.
I haven't been there since and won't either. | | | |
| Next firebreak on 19:14 - Nov 17 with 969 views | Scotia |
Experience would say the answer to the headline is "no" | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.