| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) 13:20 - Nov 5 with 9382 views | RochdaleAFC.com |
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 18:17 - Nov 7 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 18:01 - Nov 7 by 442Dale |
Question now is which two of that squad miss out next week? Silcott-Duberry and Paterson for me. |
I think it unlikely that players returning from lengthy spells out will be starting, but Watson must find ways of bringing them on to full fitness, most likely as second half subs
The York fixture is one that most of us probably looked for when the list came out, and will be a significant test of our resolve
Last chance, possibly, to retain the loyalty of the 3500 ahead of the more severe weather
[Post edited 7 Nov 18:18]
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 18:42 - Nov 7 with 0 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 18:17 - Nov 7 by D_Alien |
I think it unlikely that players returning from lengthy spells out will be starting, but Watson must find ways of bringing them on to full fitness, most likely as second half subs
The York fixture is one that most of us probably looked for when the list came out, and will be a significant test of our resolve
Last chance, possibly, to retain the loyalty of the 3500 ahead of the more severe weather
[Post edited 7 Nov 18:18]
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Irrespective of the result and performance, it’s to be hoped fans will stick with their team as much as possible - the definition of loyalty. Of course results impact attendance, but as has been said elsewhere when it comes to the current situation, we didn’t put in all that effort last season to risk ending up in the bottom two this time around.
Supporters will have their own part to play in that, every point will matter and everyone on and off the pitch can help achieve that. |  |
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 18:55 - Nov 7 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 18:42 - Nov 7 by 442Dale |
Irrespective of the result and performance, it’s to be hoped fans will stick with their team as much as possible - the definition of loyalty. Of course results impact attendance, but as has been said elsewhere when it comes to the current situation, we didn’t put in all that effort last season to risk ending up in the bottom two this time around.
Supporters will have their own part to play in that, every point will matter and everyone on and off the pitch can help achieve that. |
I don't disagree with the sentiment, but a good 1000 of those 3500 weren't regulars at the start of last season. Many may have been encouraged into buying a season ticket on the back of our triumphant ending. Tbeir loyalty will be rather less secure than the 2000 or so diehards
The extra 1000 or so, if lost, will not be back until they're given a damn good reason, even if they've paid up front for their seat, especially in midwinter (excepting the Xmas/NY fixtures) [Post edited 7 Nov 18:55]
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 19:08 - Nov 7 with 0 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 18:55 - Nov 7 by D_Alien |
I don't disagree with the sentiment, but a good 1000 of those 3500 weren't regulars at the start of last season. Many may have been encouraged into buying a season ticket on the back of our triumphant ending. Tbeir loyalty will be rather less secure than the 2000 or so diehards
The extra 1000 or so, if lost, will not be back until they're given a damn good reason, even if they've paid up front for their seat, especially in midwinter (excepting the Xmas/NY fixtures) [Post edited 7 Nov 18:55]
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Acknowledge that. But when it comes to building a fanbase it’s also about building resilience during the bad times and hoping that, as more people become fans year on year, their support doesn’t waver so much when we hit bad spells/seasons.
Because when those times inevitably occur, loyalty will ensure they stick around.
Project 5000 can’t be a “…when we’re good” situation. | |
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 19:28 - Nov 7 with 0 views | dannyuk |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 17:47 - Nov 7 by dingdangblue |
No surprise with Sherring out of the defence we concede 1 (and a penalty at that).
And that's not picking on 1 player - it's just facts that he was in the side which was losing badly at the start of the season and he was back in the side for our recent awful run. |
He was in the side that started well on Tuesday, and then after he came off they conceded 4... |  | | |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 19:31 - Nov 7 with 0 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 19:28 - Nov 7 by dannyuk |
He was in the side that started well on Tuesday, and then after he came off they conceded 4... |
As often seen, let’s not let facts get in the way of a good argument. | |
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 19:35 - Nov 7 with 0 views | Daley_Lama |
Great to have two LB back
Great to have Tasker back at RB
Great to see Gilmour/Adeeko pairing split - with both having good games individually
Great to see East and Eels on the pitch and Casey warming up.
Massive step forward in player availability.
Over 90 minutes we were up against it overall
Extra time we were better team
Absolute barnstorming daisy cutter from Adeeko and knee slide not bad either.
Much improved on recent. Not hard to but much better at the back. |  |
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 19:47 - Nov 7 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 19:08 - Nov 7 by 442Dale |
Acknowledge that. But when it comes to building a fanbase it’s also about building resilience during the bad times and hoping that, as more people become fans year on year, their support doesn’t waver so much when we hit bad spells/seasons.
Because when those times inevitably occur, loyalty will ensure they stick around.
Project 5000 can’t be a “…when we’re good” situation. |
Again, don't disagree with the sentiment, but that's all it is
What does "building resilience" even look like? Fans either have it, or they don'i
Towards the end of the Accy drubbing, as the fourth and fifth goals went in, the noises coming from those leaving early were along the lines of "won't be wasting my time and money again"
Of course, if we turn it around, they'll be back
If not, they won't. You can't "build resilience" when many have no internal resilience/resources of their own. They're there to feel good, not to feel even more shit about themselves
That's the reality | |
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 19:57 - Nov 7 with 0 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 17:41 - Nov 7 by frenzied |
That’s a great win.
Under the cosh for most of the game but didn’t capitulate when they equalised…good to see some of the squad back on the pitch.
Looking forward to the draw for the next round. |
Positives on show with this win....At Last!
Buys Watson a bit more time but it must lift the players from their confidence down in the tread of the carpet.
Besides we pocket £47750 for the win (plus a bit more guaranteed for R2) which will pay some of the sickies. | | | |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 20:01 - Nov 7 with 0 views | dingdangblue |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 19:31 - Nov 7 by 442Dale |
As often seen, let’s not let facts get in the way of a good argument. |
I'll trust my judgement in games that matter rather than 1/2 a game v Doncaster reserves. |  |
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 20:05 - Nov 7 with 0 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 20:01 - Nov 7 by dingdangblue |
I'll trust my judgement in games that matter rather than 1/2 a game v Doncaster reserves. |
The reply was specific to that game. Nobody doubt how poor Sherring has been. It was identified very early on, the problem has been Watson has had to pick him recently. | |
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 20:13 - Nov 7 with 0 views | Nigeriamark |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 19:35 - Nov 7 by Daley_Lama |
Great to have two LB back
Great to have Tasker back at RB
Great to see Gilmour/Adeeko pairing split - with both having good games individually
Great to see East and Eels on the pitch and Casey warming up.
Massive step forward in player availability.
Over 90 minutes we were up against it overall
Extra time we were better team
Absolute barnstorming daisy cutter from Adeeko and knee slide not bad either.
Much improved on recent. Not hard to but much better at the back. |
First hour or so it was quite even ( they had a lot of possession but our keeper didn’t have any real saves to make) but we were really poor in the last 30 minutes of regulation. I thought they would kick on and win in extra time but it was some of our best football of the season. Seems IW realised thet if you are attacking the opposition can’t score. Our goal was a cracker and we almost chipped in a second. In full control of ET until a couple of minutes from the end when our keeper dropped a simple cross and they almost scored.
Big improvement over last week but a lot of stray passes that on another day could have cost us. Great support from the fans too especially at the final whistle. |  | | |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 20:14 - Nov 7 with 0 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 19:47 - Nov 7 by D_Alien |
Again, don't disagree with the sentiment, but that's all it is
What does "building resilience" even look like? Fans either have it, or they don'i
Towards the end of the Accy drubbing, as the fourth and fifth goals went in, the noises coming from those leaving early were along the lines of "won't be wasting my time and money again"
Of course, if we turn it around, they'll be back
If not, they won't. You can't "build resilience" when many have no internal resilience/resources of their own. They're there to feel good, not to feel even more shit about themselves
That's the reality |
Building afanbase towards that 5000 will require some resilience when things go badly. If people haven’t been so much, they may find that by continuing to attend during bad spells actually makes the good times that much better.
There are loads of us who could point to that. It’s part of being a supporter. Sticking with the club no matter what (of course life can get in the way at times!). Winning and losing will come in equal measure.
Other clubs have done it, no reason we can’t. Of course there will always be some casual fans who pick and choose games based on results, it’s getting that loyal supporter base up from 2-2500 to 3-3500 and beyond, irrespective of where we are in the league table. | |
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 20:33 - Nov 7 with 0 views | TVOS1907 |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 15:07 - Nov 7 by Yorkshire_Dale |
Whilst survival in L2 is top priority without doubt, it would be sweet to get a bit of glory today if only to be able to watch the next round draw with our lot still in it.
We have already excited a Cup run this week.
Besides it might give the players a bit of self belief and confidence.
Amen! to that |
There was nothing exciting about it. |  |
| Maestro? No.
Elite? No.
Heavyweight poster? No.
Able to be rational and not over-react to individual results? Yes. |
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 20:41 - Nov 7 with 0 views | TVOS1907 |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 19:57 - Nov 7 by Yorkshire_Dale |
Positives on show with this win....At Last!
Buys Watson a bit more time but it must lift the players from their confidence down in the tread of the carpet.
Besides we pocket £47750 for the win (plus a bit more guaranteed for R2) which will pay some of the sickies. |
Is there any need for that last comment, which follows on from something similar last week?
I'm fairly sure the "sickies", as you call them, would rather be playing. | |
| Maestro? No.
Elite? No.
Heavyweight poster? No.
Able to be rational and not over-react to individual results? Yes. |
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 21:09 - Nov 7 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 20:14 - Nov 7 by 442Dale |
Building afanbase towards that 5000 will require some resilience when things go badly. If people haven’t been so much, they may find that by continuing to attend during bad spells actually makes the good times that much better.
There are loads of us who could point to that. It’s part of being a supporter. Sticking with the club no matter what (of course life can get in the way at times!). Winning and losing will come in equal measure.
Other clubs have done it, no reason we can’t. Of course there will always be some casual fans who pick and choose games based on results, it’s getting that loyal supporter base up from 2-2500 to 3-3500 and beyond, irrespective of where we are in the league table. |
"...will require some resilience..."
Once again... well meaning platitudes, but the actuality of resilience revolves around building on the playing side. Most realistic fans would've settled for consolidation this year, even with JM still in charge
What most of the new fans won't settle for is a nosedive. Gauge will likely have had experience during his pilot training of how to deal with a nosedive; let's see if he can deal with one in an environment that's even more complex, from the human point of view
[Post edited 7 Nov 21:09]
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 22:37 - Nov 7 with 0 views | Sandyman |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 21:09 - Nov 7 by D_Alien |
"...will require some resilience..."
Once again... well meaning platitudes, but the actuality of resilience revolves around building on the playing side. Most realistic fans would've settled for consolidation this year, even with JM still in charge
What most of the new fans won't settle for is a nosedive. Gauge will likely have had experience during his pilot training of how to deal with a nosedive; let's see if he can deal with one in an environment that's even more complex, from the human point of view
[Post edited 7 Nov 21:09]
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Agreed.
We have an increased set of season ticket holders and "on the day" attendees. Great. It's mostly good football and good results that will keep them coming back. Resilience and loyalty with fans only comes with years of following Dale's fortunes, and not every attendee lasts long enough to acquire it. That is why what happens on the pitch now is so important, and Watson has been mostly poor in what he has offered.
We'll see how much attendances hold up. That and league position should determine his future, as well as some of the rank bad football that has been discussed many a time on other threads. RAFC need to be better on the pitch to retain our new fans and our place in League 2. |  |
| "And only as far as Casey Pettit......" |
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 23:28 - Nov 7 with 0 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 22:37 - Nov 7 by Sandyman |
Agreed.
We have an increased set of season ticket holders and "on the day" attendees. Great. It's mostly good football and good results that will keep them coming back. Resilience and loyalty with fans only comes with years of following Dale's fortunes, and not every attendee lasts long enough to acquire it. That is why what happens on the pitch now is so important, and Watson has been mostly poor in what he has offered.
We'll see how much attendances hold up. That and league position should determine his future, as well as some of the rank bad football that has been discussed many a time on other threads. RAFC need to be better on the pitch to retain our new fans and our place in League 2. |
As noted earlier, results will indeed impact attendances, it’s the hope mentioned in the original post on the subject that we’ve already managed to gain a larger loyal fanbase this season. Supporting a football team comes with good and bad, sticking with them during the bad is that loyalty in action.
It won’t happen immediately of course. But if we are to be in a relegation battle, whoever the manager is, we’ll need as many fans as possible to help out.
Think sometimes it’s best not to presume the choices of others, or whether they’ll turn up each week. It’s got to be hoped as we build towards that 5000 target that they do. Otherwise it’s a target with too many conditions attached, making the move towards sustainability harder to plan for.
Plus, everyone starts somewhere. Can only speak for myself and those I know who started going in the dire days of the early 80s, a small example maybe, but everyone kept on turning up week after week despite the poor offering out on the pitch. We may have gained many new fans, we can only guess at how many are already new supporters.
Of course, there’s also a recognition around cost implications. However that would also be the case if we were top by five points. It’s a personal opinion, despite my own real misgivings about the tactical ability shown so far this season, but I really do hope people can see past that and continue to build the club together. [Post edited 7 Nov 23:30]
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 11:17 - Nov 8 with 0 views | 49thseason |
The growth in the fanbase will be incremental. In reality its taken the last 3 seasons in the National League with decent to astonishing results on the pitch to add 1000+ to the gates, . This season we have sold over 1000 youth season tickets. Buying a season ticket is a notable point in a supporters journey. What started as an occasional Saturday afternoon with some mates has become a regurlar event...
This means there are now 1000 additional lads ( mainly I guess) who will encourage other mates to come to an occasional game and they in due course will, if the atmosphere and the results on the pitch are good and they enjoy the whole experience,, bring yet more of their pals.
Meanwhile other supporters are bringing kids, who in turn will get into the habit....
Its going to take time but the club is slowly extrcating itself from decades of decline and making do.
The 5000 attendance target keeps everyone focused on improvement, as I have mentioned here several times before, continuous improvement has to be built into our DNA as a club, attention to detail, everyone suggesting improvements, not letting anything slide or deteriorate. This is howJapan rebuilt after WW2, its the essence of Toyota and Honda and it's how this club will grow and develop, one small step at a time building on previous small steps, taking care, building customer satisfaction, building strong relationships, sharing the vision.....and then on to project 6000...growth in the fanbase leads to stronger teams, more inv3stment, a bigger academy, more community involvement and an even bigger fanbase. The cycle is virtuous |  | | |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 11:23 - Nov 8 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 23:28 - Nov 7 by 442Dale |
As noted earlier, results will indeed impact attendances, it’s the hope mentioned in the original post on the subject that we’ve already managed to gain a larger loyal fanbase this season. Supporting a football team comes with good and bad, sticking with them during the bad is that loyalty in action.
It won’t happen immediately of course. But if we are to be in a relegation battle, whoever the manager is, we’ll need as many fans as possible to help out.
Think sometimes it’s best not to presume the choices of others, or whether they’ll turn up each week. It’s got to be hoped as we build towards that 5000 target that they do. Otherwise it’s a target with too many conditions attached, making the move towards sustainability harder to plan for.
Plus, everyone starts somewhere. Can only speak for myself and those I know who started going in the dire days of the early 80s, a small example maybe, but everyone kept on turning up week after week despite the poor offering out on the pitch. We may have gained many new fans, we can only guess at how many are already new supporters.
Of course, there’s also a recognition around cost implications. However that would also be the case if we were top by five points. It’s a personal opinion, despite my own real misgivings about the tactical ability shown so far this season, but I really do hope people can see past that and continue to build the club together. [Post edited 7 Nov 23:30]
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I think we can all agree it'd be 'nice' if everyone shared the same level of interest and commitment. It's merely a truism to say we live in a different era to when you or i started supporting Dale
One example: we can have a laugh at how rubbish some of our players were back then (my own 'favourite' was Brian Hart) but don't recall anything like the kind of vilification being dished out to Sherring, who's far more accomplished. Probably due to the way in which young.minds are being formed online these days
This is every bit as disloyal as people deciding they've got better things to do than turn up at Dale. Some of those booing might even claim to be "Dale till i die"
Your point about not trying to second guess the motivation of others is trivial; all you have to do is take note of them on their way out, or see them disappearing into the bar for half the game, as bizarre a phenomenon as can be witnessed at a live football match, as if they can hardly bear to sit and watch for 90 minutes [Post edited 8 Nov 11:27]
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 11:38 - Nov 8 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 11:17 - Nov 8 by 49thseason |
The growth in the fanbase will be incremental. In reality its taken the last 3 seasons in the National League with decent to astonishing results on the pitch to add 1000+ to the gates, . This season we have sold over 1000 youth season tickets. Buying a season ticket is a notable point in a supporters journey. What started as an occasional Saturday afternoon with some mates has become a regurlar event...
This means there are now 1000 additional lads ( mainly I guess) who will encourage other mates to come to an occasional game and they in due course will, if the atmosphere and the results on the pitch are good and they enjoy the whole experience,, bring yet more of their pals.
Meanwhile other supporters are bringing kids, who in turn will get into the habit....
Its going to take time but the club is slowly extrcating itself from decades of decline and making do.
The 5000 attendance target keeps everyone focused on improvement, as I have mentioned here several times before, continuous improvement has to be built into our DNA as a club, attention to detail, everyone suggesting improvements, not letting anything slide or deteriorate. This is howJapan rebuilt after WW2, its the essence of Toyota and Honda and it's how this club will grow and develop, one small step at a time building on previous small steps, taking care, building customer satisfaction, building strong relationships, sharing the vision.....and then on to project 6000...growth in the fanbase leads to stronger teams, more inv3stment, a bigger academy, more community involvement and an even bigger fanbase. The cycle is virtuous |
This is clearly what the club are trying to do
I don't think the Ogdens need lessons in how to grow a business, but the bottom line (to follow your example) is that Japanese cars didn't have their exhausts falling off or doors not fitting properly | |
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| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 19:00 - Nov 8 with 0 views | 49thseason |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 11:38 - Nov 8 by D_Alien |
This is clearly what the club are trying to do
I don't think the Ogdens need lessons in how to grow a business, but the bottom line (to follow your example) is that Japanese cars didn't have their exhausts falling off or doors not fitting properly |
You should study,the work of W Edwards Deming, indeed everyone should .i have no doubt the Ogdens were introduced to Deming's philosophy at Harvard Business School, Its a key component of many courses there.. the pity is that few UK Universities are interested in his methods.... | | | |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 20:36 - Nov 8 with 0 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Fleetwood Town v Rochdale (FA Cup) on 19:00 - Nov 8 by 49thseason |
You should study,the work of W Edwards Deming, indeed everyone should .i have no doubt the Ogdens were introduced to Deming's philosophy at Harvard Business School, Its a key component of many courses there.. the pity is that few UK Universities are interested in his methods.... |
Can i rephrase that for you:
"Have you, by any chance, studied the work of Edwards Deming?" | |
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