| Unity 17:15 - Jan 1 with 15553 views | RAFCBLUE |
Unity is what is called for now.
We are in such a better place than 12 months ago in terms of league position and there is no reason why the relevant points needed to get to 50 can't be obtained in the remaining league games.
P26 W8 D6 L12 F33 A52 Points 30.
I think everyone can see what adjustment is needed to stop that goals against figure changing.
I still don't think we are a bottom four team and it will be interesting to see the reactions/overreactions to a Christmas period which saw us pick up 6 points from 12! |  |
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| Unity on 19:41 - Jan 1 with 1704 views | JimmyRustler |
| Unity on 18:46 - Jan 1 by RAFCBLUE |
No it's not. It's historical fact.
Those were the results of last season.
And so far this season we are ahead of last season.
KH is "surviving" because:
a) he is managing Rochdale on a budget and at a level that Rochdale aren't used to.
b) he has a track record of success at this club relative to the club's history and financial means.
React all you like to losing 5-0 but there isn't half some sh*te posted each season during a bad run or after a bad result.
Here's an example from 2015/16:
"Eastham HAS to start.
McDermott HAS to start.
Vincenti HAS to start.
Alessandra SHOULD be given a run out.
We've persevered with Bunney for long enough. It's time for something new. Today is almost a must win and the whole squad (including KH) needs a confidence boost. Anything other than a victory today is failure."
Final league position in 2015/16 - 10th (under Keith Hill). |
What you haven't factored in:
Our current trajectory.
We are currently shipping goals for fun with absolutely no light at the end of the tunnel.
The last two performances - as bad as anything I've seen in the last decade or so.
The fact that we are losing players in the transfer window which will weaken the squad.
The "track record" is what I mean when I say he's surviving on credit. Last season was gash and we survived on nothing short of a miracle. I'll keep saying it until I'm blue in the face - it's not our position in the league that I'm concerned with. I (as well as many others) are well aware that we are "punching above our weight" by simply being in League 1. We don't need to be told this at every single available opportunity (by the manager or anyone else).
Everyone gets emotional after a bad performance or result. This is a continued set of results and performances spanning at least 18 months. One more time. It isn't about league position. It's about getting the basics right and being the architects of our own downfall (e.g square pegs in round holes and the current GK farce). I would happily take being in League 2 if this was the old Keith Hill. It isn't.
You can put up with this sort of shit if you're winning but when you're not, people rightly start to question the logic behind the decisions. Off the pitch, we've had enough shit off KH as fans over the years but again, this has been offset by the fact that he has been hugely successful. Once again, the success disappears and it starts to wear thin.
The worst thing is that it shouldn't be difficult to right the wrongs as they are largely of our own doing. Unfortunately, our manager appears to be one of the most stubborn people you're ever likely to meet in football. Either that or he's just ignorant - he's certainly not an idiot. If there was some indication that things were changing then it would be much easier to swallow. As it stands, we're actually getting worse and today was a disgraceful performance. [Post edited 1 Jan 2019 19:46]
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| Unity on 19:42 - Jan 1 with 1700 views | nordenblue |
| Unity on 19:26 - Jan 1 by RAFCBLUE |
Some have - here are some tasters from the Doncaster match thread:
"I do feel for all 3 keepers, but Norman is poor. I don't want to see play for Dale again"
"Rathbone has ran about a bit but the rest can f**k off."
"Wade must be wondering what he has to do to get a game!"
A different manager for Burton at home on Saturday would still have the choice of picking either Lillis, Moore, Norman or Wade.
The players here are the ones that were prepared to come here on the financial packages we could offer. Most did that for the opportunity to work with Keith Hill.
Whether someone likes a manager or player is irrelevant. The point about "unity" is about getting behind whoever represents the club.
I personally don't give a toss what the team is on Saturday and who picks it or how we play as long as we win! |
You'll struggle gaining any sort of "unity" while there's a manager hell bent on causing a massive divide,mostly due to his ridiculous post match comments.
If he took some sort of responsibility for the continuous errors HES causing and even explained his corner a little better he'd certainly get more of this unity [Post edited 1 Jan 2019 19:42]
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| Unity on 19:45 - Jan 1 with 1675 views | James1980 |
| Unity on 19:34 - Jan 1 by midlandsdale |
Mine too. If there was just an inkling from Hill that he is responsible I might have some but that's never going to happen. It is time to change as we have had a great run but like Arsenal its just time to change and move forward. |
Isn't a better PL club to compare Dale to Burnley? Hill and Dyche have been at their respective clubs a similar length of time. Both are basically tasked first and foremost keeping their clubs in their current League. | |
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| Unity on 19:49 - Jan 1 with 1633 views | 442Dale |
| Unity on 19:32 - Jan 1 by RAFCBLUE |
I can see that 442, but "responsibility and accountability accepted" is too vague.
If we take today's game and work on the basis there is not a professional sportsperson I know that went out to deliberately lose 5-0 today then where is that responsibility with a name on it.
It's a bit like saying that we should be better at defending corners but blaming Hill when someone switches off and doesn't do their job.
I know, for example, that every person in our team has a marking job at set pieces. If Hill gives them that marking job and their man scores today are they the ones responsible? Or Hill? Or Chris Dunphy for appointing Hill?
Sometimes you need someone to say "X doesn't work for me because of Y".
Be candid; you're on a football messageboard - its not as if you are not trying to make things better in a level headed way which is the starting point for positive change. |
To be honest, it exhausts me. It has for a very long time, I find myself hating the need to post/say repetitive things that no doubt wind-up those reading/listening yet are done with the intention to focus on improvements. This place and those I have spoken to have had “candid”, had ideas of how things can be improved, had my thanks and praise when deserved and had my frustration as similar situations occur time and again.
So, no. I’m giving up on offering suggestions for one evening, because frankly that exhaustion and frustration isn’t good at all. This football club is at a crossroads. Our football club.
Someone needs to decide what route to take, but first they need to appreciate different directions exist. |  |
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| Unity on 19:52 - Jan 1 with 1620 views | Blueboy |
| Unity on 19:45 - Jan 1 by James1980 |
Isn't a better PL club to compare Dale to Burnley? Hill and Dyche have been at their respective clubs a similar length of time. Both are basically tasked first and foremost keeping their clubs in their current League. |
But at what cost,where has the enjoyment gone,i dont want to watch this crap just to stay in league 1,I want to go on a Saturday and be entertained and not by Bradford,barnsley Portsmouth etc the fun has gone from watching Dale. | | | |
| Unity on 19:56 - Jan 1 with 1593 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Unity on 19:34 - Jan 1 by Dalenet |
Disappointing and patronising response from somebody that wants unity provided it is his way.
I too have been posting since the rivals days. I am not suggesting that this Board represents the majority, but the feeling of everybody around me on matchdays is more representative than a few on here. But you asked the few on here didn't you.
I have always backed Hill all the way, even last season, but he doesn't have a clue at present. Ask the players. If we drop to League Two I doubt we would survive this time around. We don't have a sugar daddy to cover the drop in income whilst we support managers and players on League One wages. I don't want to us to be the next Stockport. We survive by making changes and getting people to turn up. Telling them to go the Odeon shows that you don't have a care about unification - looks like the arrogance of a director telling the fans not to come back. |
If you consider that "unification" on 1st January 2019 is:
* Fire the manager
* Pay up the remaining 3.5 years of his existing deal. A LOT of cash to find.
* Choose a new manager
* Fire Chris Beech and allow the new manager to bring his own assistant in
* Put the planned January transfer window activity under jeopardy.
* Unsettle every current Dale player many who have said publically about their admiration for the manager they play for.
Then I'll politely disagree that that is the way to run a League 1 club currently in January. That process assuming Hill got fired at 8pm tonight would take a long time to do and when the transfer window closes it closes for the season.
You say that "we survive by making changes and getting people to turn up"
We don't.
We have had the same manager for 6 years and success with that manager.
We had the last Chairman for 10 years and he was on the board for 30.
Success at Rochdale is about stability, holding your nerves and getting behind the team. Added to which there is financial prudence and the occasional cup run. | |
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| Unity on 19:56 - Jan 1 with 1591 views | James1980 |
| Unity on 19:52 - Jan 1 by Blueboy |
But at what cost,where has the enjoyment gone,i dont want to watch this crap just to stay in league 1,I want to go on a Saturday and be entertained and not by Bradford,barnsley Portsmouth etc the fun has gone from watching Dale. |
From an entertainment perspective would we better a high flying league 2 side? | |
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| Unity on 20:02 - Jan 1 with 1564 views | rochdale_ranger |
| Unity on 19:56 - Jan 1 by James1980 |
From an entertainment perspective would we better a high flying league 2 side? |
Ehat makes you think the style of play or recruitment would change if we went down. Oldham and Bury aren’t exactly setting the world alight in that league on the back relegation. |  | | |
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| Unity on 20:03 - Jan 1 with 1556 views | Blueboy |
| Unity on 19:56 - Jan 1 by James1980 |
From an entertainment perspective would we better a high flying league 2 side? |
Probably yes,dont want to see us battered every week its getting boring,honestly dont think ive gone home from a game this season saying i enjoyed that. | | | |
| Unity on 20:04 - Jan 1 with 1549 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Unity on 19:42 - Jan 1 by nordenblue |
You'll struggle gaining any sort of "unity" while there's a manager hell bent on causing a massive divide,mostly due to his ridiculous post match comments.
If he took some sort of responsibility for the continuous errors HES causing and even explained his corner a little better he'd certainly get more of this unity [Post edited 1 Jan 2019 19:42]
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I wouldn't disagree with that.
But isn't some of that down to the way that club (as a whole) makes and represents itself in the media?
The manager gets appointed and managed by the Chairman. So is it not a failing (or success) of the Chairman, past or present to "have a word".
People talk - and continue to talk - like getting rid of Hill will solve all our problems. It won't, it might be a start, it might be a massive mistake.
The club has 88 employees at last publication. Take away players and the rest (circa 55) have reporting lines to Chairman, Chief Executive and Manager.
It's a collective effort and if someone isn't holding Hill to account then they are not doing their job. | |
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| Unity on 20:07 - Jan 1 with 1531 views | James1980 |
| Unity on 20:02 - Jan 1 by rochdale_ranger |
Ehat makes you think the style of play or recruitment would change if we went down. Oldham and Bury aren’t exactly setting the world alight in that league on the back relegation. |
Surely we would do better than those 2 though | |
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| Unity on 20:07 - Jan 1 with 1529 views | nordenblue |
| Unity on 19:56 - Jan 1 by RAFCBLUE |
If you consider that "unification" on 1st January 2019 is:
* Fire the manager
* Pay up the remaining 3.5 years of his existing deal. A LOT of cash to find.
* Choose a new manager
* Fire Chris Beech and allow the new manager to bring his own assistant in
* Put the planned January transfer window activity under jeopardy.
* Unsettle every current Dale player many who have said publically about their admiration for the manager they play for.
Then I'll politely disagree that that is the way to run a League 1 club currently in January. That process assuming Hill got fired at 8pm tonight would take a long time to do and when the transfer window closes it closes for the season.
You say that "we survive by making changes and getting people to turn up"
We don't.
We have had the same manager for 6 years and success with that manager.
We had the last Chairman for 10 years and he was on the board for 30.
Success at Rochdale is about stability, holding your nerves and getting behind the team. Added to which there is financial prudence and the occasional cup run. |
You'd like to think the powers that be would have a bit of a plan in place if he was to get the chop at say 8pm tonight and it certainly wouldn't be a surprise to them in the least, all this bollox about getting behind them and unity is all very gallant and noble, but how long do you carry on doing the same thing yet all the while expecting a different result,now that is fooking madness. | | | |
| Unity on 20:07 - Jan 1 with 1524 views | D_Alien |
| Unity on 19:52 - Jan 1 by Blueboy |
But at what cost,where has the enjoyment gone,i dont want to watch this crap just to stay in league 1,I want to go on a Saturday and be entertained and not by Bradford,barnsley Portsmouth etc the fun has gone from watching Dale. |
And that sums up a major part of the predicament for Rochdale FC
Despite someone recently posting that gates are dwindling - they're not. They've stood up pretty well over the past couple of seasons when our performances on the pitch (cup ties aside) have deteriorated. This isn't down to the Willbutts being packed 3 or 4 times a season - that's pretty consistent in L1 with 'big' clubs coming and going, but mainly due to the ST initiative started under Russ Green; and let's not forget the part that the turmoil around our CEO has had in upsetting the finely balanced stability we seemed to have behind the scenes. But - vitually everyone welcomed the initiative and it has paid off in one sense, in that the disenchantment you've posted about would've led to a genuine collapse in gates before now but for the support having prepaid at a huge discount
So - if the club are to progress, where does that leave the fanbase? For 10 years (with the KH/ Barnsley interregnum aside) the product on pitch was beyond what many of us ever thought might happen at Dale - and let's not forget that either. But, the gates remained stubbornly resistant to any major improvement commensurate with the football. With a new CEO and the current financial question marks, what does the club do regarding STs? Retain the huge discount, or put the prices back to where they were and hope the entertainment value creates additional interest? It didn't for 10 years
I've gone on about this at some length because it's one of the biggest factors the club have to consider in whether KH stays or not. RACFBLUE asked the question (of another regular and respected poster) what he'd like to candidly see happen. If i might answer, i'd like someone in a senior position at the club have a showdown with KH to the effect that he needs to get his mind 100% behind the team creating something worth watching, just as he did in 2006 and again in 2013. I don't believe KH has simply 'lost the plot' i think he may somehow have just lost himself. Someone at the club, please bang his head against a wall so he recovers what i believe he's capable of providing! |  |
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| Unity on 20:09 - Jan 1 with 1514 views | MoonyDale |
| Unity on 20:04 - Jan 1 by RAFCBLUE |
I wouldn't disagree with that.
But isn't some of that down to the way that club (as a whole) makes and represents itself in the media?
The manager gets appointed and managed by the Chairman. So is it not a failing (or success) of the Chairman, past or present to "have a word".
People talk - and continue to talk - like getting rid of Hill will solve all our problems. It won't, it might be a start, it might be a massive mistake.
The club has 88 employees at last publication. Take away players and the rest (circa 55) have reporting lines to Chairman, Chief Executive and Manager.
It's a collective effort and if someone isn't holding Hill to account then they are not doing their job. |
So someone behind the scenes needs taking to task for not doing their job because they haven't taken hilly to task for not doing his job? |  |
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| Unity on 20:11 - Jan 1 with 1499 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Unity on 19:49 - Jan 1 by 442Dale |
To be honest, it exhausts me. It has for a very long time, I find myself hating the need to post/say repetitive things that no doubt wind-up those reading/listening yet are done with the intention to focus on improvements. This place and those I have spoken to have had “candid”, had ideas of how things can be improved, had my thanks and praise when deserved and had my frustration as similar situations occur time and again.
So, no. I’m giving up on offering suggestions for one evening, because frankly that exhaustion and frustration isn’t good at all. This football club is at a crossroads. Our football club.
Someone needs to decide what route to take, but first they need to appreciate different directions exist. |
Fair enough 442.
I shall bother you tomorrow or another day then. Improving is important.
For statements like "This football club is at a crossroads. Our football club." that is the context of having a mainly fan based ownership, an active core support and some reach into the community and the town.
Granted, a majority of key shareholders are wealthy individuals but the thing with shares is that you're only given custodianship for your lifetime - and no one lives forever.
I'll liken where we are now to Fred Ratcliffe's Rolls Royce. Fred didn't sack the manager he did what he thought was needed which was calling in favours and lending his Rolls Royce to people who wanted to be our friends.
There are a lot of detractors and some WUM's on this forum, some with banners.
If we are in the mess that people suggest then the views, improvements, reasons needs airing for the benefit of all at either a Fans Forum or Trust event. | |
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| Unity on 20:15 - Jan 1 with 1466 views | Blueboy |
| Unity on 20:07 - Jan 1 by D_Alien |
And that sums up a major part of the predicament for Rochdale FC
Despite someone recently posting that gates are dwindling - they're not. They've stood up pretty well over the past couple of seasons when our performances on the pitch (cup ties aside) have deteriorated. This isn't down to the Willbutts being packed 3 or 4 times a season - that's pretty consistent in L1 with 'big' clubs coming and going, but mainly due to the ST initiative started under Russ Green; and let's not forget the part that the turmoil around our CEO has had in upsetting the finely balanced stability we seemed to have behind the scenes. But - vitually everyone welcomed the initiative and it has paid off in one sense, in that the disenchantment you've posted about would've led to a genuine collapse in gates before now but for the support having prepaid at a huge discount
So - if the club are to progress, where does that leave the fanbase? For 10 years (with the KH/ Barnsley interregnum aside) the product on pitch was beyond what many of us ever thought might happen at Dale - and let's not forget that either. But, the gates remained stubbornly resistant to any major improvement commensurate with the football. With a new CEO and the current financial question marks, what does the club do regarding STs? Retain the huge discount, or put the prices back to where they were and hope the entertainment value creates additional interest? It didn't for 10 years
I've gone on about this at some length because it's one of the biggest factors the club have to consider in whether KH stays or not. RACFBLUE asked the question (of another regular and respected poster) what he'd like to candidly see happen. If i might answer, i'd like someone in a senior position at the club have a showdown with KH to the effect that he needs to get his mind 100% behind the team creating something worth watching, just as he did in 2006 and again in 2013. I don't believe KH has simply 'lost the plot' i think he may somehow have just lost himself. Someone at the club, please bang his head against a wall so he recovers what i believe he's capable of providing! |
I would love it if hilly turned it around,get us playing that no fear football again,entertain us,I'd rather go down playing exciting football than watching this shite we are watching now,okay we might survive in lge 1 but so what do we want to watch it every week i know i dont. | | | |
| Unity on 20:18 - Jan 1 with 1445 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Unity on 20:09 - Jan 1 by MoonyDale |
So someone behind the scenes needs taking to task for not doing their job because they haven't taken hilly to task for not doing his job? |
Possibly, but then you'd have to criticize Chris Dunphy who, in over 12 years as Chairman delivered two promotions, a relegation, buying back the ground, a £2m improvement in the finances of the football club and a reputation for being one of the nicest clubs in the country to work with and do business with.
Dunphy appointed Hill in 2006 and in that 12 years had Hill for ten and a half of them.
I'm sure Dunphy managed Hill well, particularly around the sales of Glenn Murray, Craig Dawson and Scott Hogan.
If so, that's now Andrew Kilpatrick's job - and he's on day 3 of being Chairman today.
Because we can't say that in 10.5 years of being at Rochdale, Keith Hill hasn't delivered right? But his current detractors feel something needs to change (fair enough) so it will be Andrew Kilpatrick's choice as to what he does and if and how he listens to those detractors. | |
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| Unity on 20:37 - Jan 1 with 1368 views | MoonyDale |
| Unity on 20:18 - Jan 1 by RAFCBLUE |
Possibly, but then you'd have to criticize Chris Dunphy who, in over 12 years as Chairman delivered two promotions, a relegation, buying back the ground, a £2m improvement in the finances of the football club and a reputation for being one of the nicest clubs in the country to work with and do business with.
Dunphy appointed Hill in 2006 and in that 12 years had Hill for ten and a half of them.
I'm sure Dunphy managed Hill well, particularly around the sales of Glenn Murray, Craig Dawson and Scott Hogan.
If so, that's now Andrew Kilpatrick's job - and he's on day 3 of being Chairman today.
Because we can't say that in 10.5 years of being at Rochdale, Keith Hill hasn't delivered right? But his current detractors feel something needs to change (fair enough) so it will be Andrew Kilpatrick's choice as to what he does and if and how he listens to those detractors. |
I'd agree with most of that apart from the last paragraph, he's certainly hasn't delivered over the past 2 years...And that's the point...I can't keep a job because a couple of years ago I used to be good at it, if I now can't do the job for whatever reason am gonna get fired am afraid....Hill is no different, it's the world we live in. By no stretch of the imagination is he doing a good job at the moment and for the past 2 seasons and I defy anyone to say otherwise. As for criticizing CD, not from me anyway....The guy is a legend... | |
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| Unity on 20:37 - Jan 1 with 1364 views | richfoad32 |
| Unity on 20:07 - Jan 1 by James1980 |
Surely we would do better than those 2 though |
Oldham are only mid table but Bury are 4th and one of the form teams after a slow start so they're not exactly doing that badly. | | | |
| Unity on 20:43 - Jan 1 with 1335 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Unity on 20:07 - Jan 1 by D_Alien |
And that sums up a major part of the predicament for Rochdale FC
Despite someone recently posting that gates are dwindling - they're not. They've stood up pretty well over the past couple of seasons when our performances on the pitch (cup ties aside) have deteriorated. This isn't down to the Willbutts being packed 3 or 4 times a season - that's pretty consistent in L1 with 'big' clubs coming and going, but mainly due to the ST initiative started under Russ Green; and let's not forget the part that the turmoil around our CEO has had in upsetting the finely balanced stability we seemed to have behind the scenes. But - vitually everyone welcomed the initiative and it has paid off in one sense, in that the disenchantment you've posted about would've led to a genuine collapse in gates before now but for the support having prepaid at a huge discount
So - if the club are to progress, where does that leave the fanbase? For 10 years (with the KH/ Barnsley interregnum aside) the product on pitch was beyond what many of us ever thought might happen at Dale - and let's not forget that either. But, the gates remained stubbornly resistant to any major improvement commensurate with the football. With a new CEO and the current financial question marks, what does the club do regarding STs? Retain the huge discount, or put the prices back to where they were and hope the entertainment value creates additional interest? It didn't for 10 years
I've gone on about this at some length because it's one of the biggest factors the club have to consider in whether KH stays or not. RACFBLUE asked the question (of another regular and respected poster) what he'd like to candidly see happen. If i might answer, i'd like someone in a senior position at the club have a showdown with KH to the effect that he needs to get his mind 100% behind the team creating something worth watching, just as he did in 2006 and again in 2013. I don't believe KH has simply 'lost the plot' i think he may somehow have just lost himself. Someone at the club, please bang his head against a wall so he recovers what i believe he's capable of providing! |
And DAlien, someone holding an employee to account is a positive thing.
I see the current predicament differently and excuse the parlence but:
1) Up to 1999 we were properly sh*te and potless. Bottom tier relegation fodder with the occasional cup run recovering from the misdemeanors of the past, the Tommy Cannon chairmanship and the defection of Danny Begara and the insult that was Graham Barrow.
2) Steve Parkin brought an initial professionalism and that saw improvement and flirting with the top 7 of the bottom division.
3) Parkin leaving the first time for Barnsley took a lot of that with him.
4) Parkin failed at Barnsley and returned in 2006 after we had had a go with Alan Buckley and Paul Simpson.
5) It didn't work for Parkin; the phrase never go back is there for a reason.
6) We took a risk on a young youth team manager called Hill and the rest in history.
Hill saw the way to get the job by winning games and so we started playing school football - we will score one more than you and not stop until we have scored 3,4,5,6 or 7 (at Stockport).
Hill changed our view. Winning was possible every week and we should try to win. If we couldn't win we would be solid, honest and professional.
That led to a playoff final, a losing semi final and FINALLY, the holy grail - promotion.
If you were born after 1965 (i.e under 45) in 2010 it was very likely you had seen Rochdale promoted in your lifetime. It put a lot of things to bed; "history" as Hill used to refer to it.
And so to League 1 - with teams like Southampton. Proper teams. Teams we had seen on the telly.
And we held our own. We played the same level of disrespectful we will attack you football that we had in League 2.
Then the phone calls came. From Sheff United and Barnsley. Hill went, took the lot, backroom staff, kitman and all of the plans.
We imploded. Three managers and a year later we were back in League 2.
The dream was over. Dead and Rochdale could go back to little old Rochdale.
Except Hill failed at Barnsley - and they didn't like him. The Championship it seems is a little more ruthless and nasty than little old Rochdale. Hill was fired. Sacked. Pushed out.
And what did we do. We sacked John Coleman to reappoint him. If you look at the dates, Hill left Barnsley days before coming back here to a club at the bottom of League 2 and made it finish 12th.
He did the same thing again the next season; except better. We didn't need the playoffs and for 15 minutes at Newport topped the league table. That's the closest we have been to winning a title.
We have progressively got stronger. League 1 finishes of 8th, 10th, 9th set the tone and then last year we scraped 20th. Five league 1 seasons on the bounce achieved.
In context, since 1907 this is only season 10 outside of the bottom tier.
And that's the problem.
The current 2019 Dale fan doesn't remember 1988. They don't really remember 1998 or 2008.
They remember winning against teams and not winning now; except the League 1 competition is much harder and richer than League 2.
If Hill is arrogant he has every right to be. 10 years in 112 outside the bottom tier; half his.
Reminding yourself of the sh*te endured under Graham Barrow, Alan Buckley and others in the bottom tier is a salvo when you lose 5-0 away in the League above - a league you thought that you might never see!
Having seen the football side achieve League 1 I'll suggest that the off field bit hasn't. Which is the disconnect and bad results don't help sore feelings. [Post edited 1 Jan 2019 20:44]
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| Unity on 20:46 - Jan 1 with 1319 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Unity on 20:37 - Jan 1 by richfoad32 |
Oldham are only mid table but Bury are 4th and one of the form teams after a slow start so they're not exactly doing that badly. |
Except it has cost bury £10m of debt to be 4th in League 2 and we have a value of about £2.5m+!
Not 100% sure on the Oldham debt situation. | |
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| Unity on 20:52 - Jan 1 with 1272 views | MoonyDale |
| Unity on 20:43 - Jan 1 by RAFCBLUE |
And DAlien, someone holding an employee to account is a positive thing.
I see the current predicament differently and excuse the parlence but:
1) Up to 1999 we were properly sh*te and potless. Bottom tier relegation fodder with the occasional cup run recovering from the misdemeanors of the past, the Tommy Cannon chairmanship and the defection of Danny Begara and the insult that was Graham Barrow.
2) Steve Parkin brought an initial professionalism and that saw improvement and flirting with the top 7 of the bottom division.
3) Parkin leaving the first time for Barnsley took a lot of that with him.
4) Parkin failed at Barnsley and returned in 2006 after we had had a go with Alan Buckley and Paul Simpson.
5) It didn't work for Parkin; the phrase never go back is there for a reason.
6) We took a risk on a young youth team manager called Hill and the rest in history.
Hill saw the way to get the job by winning games and so we started playing school football - we will score one more than you and not stop until we have scored 3,4,5,6 or 7 (at Stockport).
Hill changed our view. Winning was possible every week and we should try to win. If we couldn't win we would be solid, honest and professional.
That led to a playoff final, a losing semi final and FINALLY, the holy grail - promotion.
If you were born after 1965 (i.e under 45) in 2010 it was very likely you had seen Rochdale promoted in your lifetime. It put a lot of things to bed; "history" as Hill used to refer to it.
And so to League 1 - with teams like Southampton. Proper teams. Teams we had seen on the telly.
And we held our own. We played the same level of disrespectful we will attack you football that we had in League 2.
Then the phone calls came. From Sheff United and Barnsley. Hill went, took the lot, backroom staff, kitman and all of the plans.
We imploded. Three managers and a year later we were back in League 2.
The dream was over. Dead and Rochdale could go back to little old Rochdale.
Except Hill failed at Barnsley - and they didn't like him. The Championship it seems is a little more ruthless and nasty than little old Rochdale. Hill was fired. Sacked. Pushed out.
And what did we do. We sacked John Coleman to reappoint him. If you look at the dates, Hill left Barnsley days before coming back here to a club at the bottom of League 2 and made it finish 12th.
He did the same thing again the next season; except better. We didn't need the playoffs and for 15 minutes at Newport topped the league table. That's the closest we have been to winning a title.
We have progressively got stronger. League 1 finishes of 8th, 10th, 9th set the tone and then last year we scraped 20th. Five league 1 seasons on the bounce achieved.
In context, since 1907 this is only season 10 outside of the bottom tier.
And that's the problem.
The current 2019 Dale fan doesn't remember 1988. They don't really remember 1998 or 2008.
They remember winning against teams and not winning now; except the League 1 competition is much harder and richer than League 2.
If Hill is arrogant he has every right to be. 10 years in 112 outside the bottom tier; half his.
Reminding yourself of the sh*te endured under Graham Barrow, Alan Buckley and others in the bottom tier is a salvo when you lose 5-0 away in the League above - a league you thought that you might never see!
Having seen the football side achieve League 1 I'll suggest that the off field bit hasn't. Which is the disconnect and bad results don't help sore feelings. [Post edited 1 Jan 2019 20:44]
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Saw my first game in 1968 and every year since have stood on the sandy, so I for one know exactly how bad we were/have been....What a sweeping statement to say that 2019 Dale fans have only seen us winning games and beating teams....Utter rubbish. I'll say again, that is all past history and in no way should have any baring on what is happening on the pitch now.....Do you have a cut off point for when what managers have done in the past ceases to be a reason for keeping them in employment? | |
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| Unity on 20:52 - Jan 1 with 1269 views | judd |
| Unity on 20:43 - Jan 1 by RAFCBLUE |
And DAlien, someone holding an employee to account is a positive thing.
I see the current predicament differently and excuse the parlence but:
1) Up to 1999 we were properly sh*te and potless. Bottom tier relegation fodder with the occasional cup run recovering from the misdemeanors of the past, the Tommy Cannon chairmanship and the defection of Danny Begara and the insult that was Graham Barrow.
2) Steve Parkin brought an initial professionalism and that saw improvement and flirting with the top 7 of the bottom division.
3) Parkin leaving the first time for Barnsley took a lot of that with him.
4) Parkin failed at Barnsley and returned in 2006 after we had had a go with Alan Buckley and Paul Simpson.
5) It didn't work for Parkin; the phrase never go back is there for a reason.
6) We took a risk on a young youth team manager called Hill and the rest in history.
Hill saw the way to get the job by winning games and so we started playing school football - we will score one more than you and not stop until we have scored 3,4,5,6 or 7 (at Stockport).
Hill changed our view. Winning was possible every week and we should try to win. If we couldn't win we would be solid, honest and professional.
That led to a playoff final, a losing semi final and FINALLY, the holy grail - promotion.
If you were born after 1965 (i.e under 45) in 2010 it was very likely you had seen Rochdale promoted in your lifetime. It put a lot of things to bed; "history" as Hill used to refer to it.
And so to League 1 - with teams like Southampton. Proper teams. Teams we had seen on the telly.
And we held our own. We played the same level of disrespectful we will attack you football that we had in League 2.
Then the phone calls came. From Sheff United and Barnsley. Hill went, took the lot, backroom staff, kitman and all of the plans.
We imploded. Three managers and a year later we were back in League 2.
The dream was over. Dead and Rochdale could go back to little old Rochdale.
Except Hill failed at Barnsley - and they didn't like him. The Championship it seems is a little more ruthless and nasty than little old Rochdale. Hill was fired. Sacked. Pushed out.
And what did we do. We sacked John Coleman to reappoint him. If you look at the dates, Hill left Barnsley days before coming back here to a club at the bottom of League 2 and made it finish 12th.
He did the same thing again the next season; except better. We didn't need the playoffs and for 15 minutes at Newport topped the league table. That's the closest we have been to winning a title.
We have progressively got stronger. League 1 finishes of 8th, 10th, 9th set the tone and then last year we scraped 20th. Five league 1 seasons on the bounce achieved.
In context, since 1907 this is only season 10 outside of the bottom tier.
And that's the problem.
The current 2019 Dale fan doesn't remember 1988. They don't really remember 1998 or 2008.
They remember winning against teams and not winning now; except the League 1 competition is much harder and richer than League 2.
If Hill is arrogant he has every right to be. 10 years in 112 outside the bottom tier; half his.
Reminding yourself of the sh*te endured under Graham Barrow, Alan Buckley and others in the bottom tier is a salvo when you lose 5-0 away in the League above - a league you thought that you might never see!
Having seen the football side achieve League 1 I'll suggest that the off field bit hasn't. Which is the disconnect and bad results don't help sore feelings. [Post edited 1 Jan 2019 20:44]
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The kitman refused to go with him to Barnsley. |  |
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| Unity on 20:52 - Jan 1 with 1266 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Unity on 20:37 - Jan 1 by MoonyDale |
I'd agree with most of that apart from the last paragraph, he's certainly hasn't delivered over the past 2 years...And that's the point...I can't keep a job because a couple of years ago I used to be good at it, if I now can't do the job for whatever reason am gonna get fired am afraid....Hill is no different, it's the world we live in. By no stretch of the imagination is he doing a good job at the moment and for the past 2 seasons and I defy anyone to say otherwise. As for criticizing CD, not from me anyway....The guy is a legend... |
I can see the perspective but I'd add to your "hasn't delivered" point the addition "in the League"
Last season's exploits at Doncaster (a), Millwall (a) and then the Millwall replay and then the first three halves against Tottenham were magnificent.
Perhaps, they did mask the League failings, but if you'd polled a Dale supporter in August 2017 and said by May 2018 League 1 safety would be achieved and a 5th round cup tie vs Tottenham then I think many would have seen that as "overachieving"
If we achieve League 1 safety this year that will the target next year too; we haven't the pockets to complete with the top end of this table and I include Doncaster's wage bill in that. | |
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| Unity on 21:00 - Jan 1 with 1228 views | MoonyDale |
| Unity on 20:52 - Jan 1 by RAFCBLUE |
I can see the perspective but I'd add to your "hasn't delivered" point the addition "in the League"
Last season's exploits at Doncaster (a), Millwall (a) and then the Millwall replay and then the first three halves against Tottenham were magnificent.
Perhaps, they did mask the League failings, but if you'd polled a Dale supporter in August 2017 and said by May 2018 League 1 safety would be achieved and a 5th round cup tie vs Tottenham then I think many would have seen that as "overachieving"
If we achieve League 1 safety this year that will the target next year too; we haven't the pockets to complete with the top end of this table and I include Doncaster's wage bill in that. |
No disrespect intended but if you take the user name off these posts you could be forgiven for thinking that Hilly is writing them. They are right from the Keith Hill song book....I agree about the cup games and the three halves against Spurs, but a couple of hours of joy does not erase 2 seasons of dross...It just doesn't. | |
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