| Ashes thread 18:40 - Oct 9 with 65873 views | BlackCrowe |
Kicks off next month with the news that Cummins is likely out of the first test and possibly most/all of the series. That helps. |  |
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| Ashes thread on 14:51 - Dec 18 with 848 views | R_from_afar |
| Ashes thread on 09:38 - Dec 18 by plasmahoop |
Added to that we will play Bashir come what may, until the ashes, then we won't, but we don't have a reserve spinner. Don't get me wrong, I think will jack's can do a decent job for England in the moeen mould in the future, but it's crazy to just chuck him in in Adelaide as the only spinner. Cue Nathan Lyon with a few wickets second innings |
England would never let a part-time bowler lead their seam attack, but when it comes to spin, time and time again, they toss the ball to a non-specialist and hope that they will somehow deliver. Madness.
Adelaide traditionally offers spinners assistance and Australia have selected their team accordingly, but not us, sigh. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Ashes thread on 19:37 - Dec 18 with 730 views | thame_hoops |
| Ashes thread on 10:08 - Dec 18 by Hunterhoop |
The thing is, there are lots of very good county players waiting in the wings. Loads of them.
But this set up doesn’t value county cricket so the casual England fan will not have heard or seen many of them.
Hameed is a completely different player to the one that last played for England. He averaged in the 66 as Notts’ opener as they won the CC this year, facing Div 1 attacks all season. He should play.
You could make a similar case for Dom Sibley, who, whilst not different, continues to score prolifically. Averaged 61 last season.
James Rew at Somerset is the best young batsmen I have seen play county cricket since Joe Root and Johnny Bairstow emerged at the same time at Yorkshire. Superb talent. He keeps for Somerset too, although I don’t actually rate his keeping much. He should be in the England side. Could be a great.
Jordan Cox at Kent is a better keeper and batsman than Jamie Smith. He should have that role.
Tom Haines and Emilio Gay are decent openers. The former has been doing it for years, is a leader, and is responsible. The latter is attacking with a high ceiling.
Ben Compton out scores Crawley in like for like matches every season at Kent.
Rehan Ahmed a young leggie who batted 3 for Leics as they steamrollered Div 2, averaging very well.
Tom Abell averaged over 50 this year, is a leader having captained Somerset for years from when he was 21. Knuckles down and delivered regularly.
Coles looks an extremely progressive cricketer.
Ed Barnard is an excellent, professional all rounder, even if his bowling is a little pedestrian for International cricket. Would say he is better than Beau Webster, Aus’ back up all rounder.
Lewis Gregory a similar sort of player, and a leader, who delivers in clutch moments.
Leach took 50 wickets in Div 1 at 23 this year. Took 40 off last year at 23. Basically since England dropped him, he has been by far the best spinner in county cricket, English or overseas. He’s out bowled Harmer who is SA’s first choice spinner now and who bowled them to victory in India.
The seam bowling stocks probably aren’t as deep as we’d like. England probably have the right crew involved. But that is a blip, I feel. England’s under 19s have been blessed with a very deep crop of seamers this year and last. There are very high hopes for Sharma at Middx becoming an England seamer.
The point is, there is huge depth. The problem is the set up has dismissed county cricket. The arrogance of Key, McCullum, and Stokes is beyond belief.
I actually want Stokes to stay as captain. But Key and McCullum have to go. Immediately. [Post edited 18 Dec 11:07]
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Great analysis, thank you. As a middx member I have heard of all these players and many have scored centuries against us haha I remember Gay getting a big score at Nhants. What happened to the Glamorgan player, forget his name. Was supposed to be the next big thing?
Clive-the cricket var is usually pretty good. I don’t recall ever seeing decisions like this before, with regards to Carey and Smith. Usually they use hot spot. |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 00:05 - Dec 19 with 654 views | CamberleyR |
| Ashes thread on 19:37 - Dec 18 by thame_hoops |
Great analysis, thank you. As a middx member I have heard of all these players and many have scored centuries against us haha I remember Gay getting a big score at Nhants. What happened to the Glamorgan player, forget his name. Was supposed to be the next big thing?
Clive-the cricket var is usually pretty good. I don’t recall ever seeing decisions like this before, with regards to Carey and Smith. Usually they use hot spot. |
They also normally use UltraEdge and not Snicko which is the Lidl/Aldi offering compared to the former which is made by Hawkeye. Not sure whether it was the ICC or the host broadcaster who decided. |  |
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| Ashes thread on 01:24 - Dec 19 with 619 views | numptydumpty |
| Ashes thread on 10:08 - Dec 18 by Hunterhoop |
The thing is, there are lots of very good county players waiting in the wings. Loads of them.
But this set up doesn’t value county cricket so the casual England fan will not have heard or seen many of them.
Hameed is a completely different player to the one that last played for England. He averaged in the 66 as Notts’ opener as they won the CC this year, facing Div 1 attacks all season. He should play.
You could make a similar case for Dom Sibley, who, whilst not different, continues to score prolifically. Averaged 61 last season.
James Rew at Somerset is the best young batsmen I have seen play county cricket since Joe Root and Johnny Bairstow emerged at the same time at Yorkshire. Superb talent. He keeps for Somerset too, although I don’t actually rate his keeping much. He should be in the England side. Could be a great.
Jordan Cox at Kent is a better keeper and batsman than Jamie Smith. He should have that role.
Tom Haines and Emilio Gay are decent openers. The former has been doing it for years, is a leader, and is responsible. The latter is attacking with a high ceiling.
Ben Compton out scores Crawley in like for like matches every season at Kent.
Rehan Ahmed a young leggie who batted 3 for Leics as they steamrollered Div 2, averaging very well.
Tom Abell averaged over 50 this year, is a leader having captained Somerset for years from when he was 21. Knuckles down and delivered regularly.
Coles looks an extremely progressive cricketer.
Ed Barnard is an excellent, professional all rounder, even if his bowling is a little pedestrian for International cricket. Would say he is better than Beau Webster, Aus’ back up all rounder.
Lewis Gregory a similar sort of player, and a leader, who delivers in clutch moments.
Leach took 50 wickets in Div 1 at 23 this year. Took 40 off last year at 23. Basically since England dropped him, he has been by far the best spinner in county cricket, English or overseas. He’s out bowled Harmer who is SA’s first choice spinner now and who bowled them to victory in India.
The seam bowling stocks probably aren’t as deep as we’d like. England probably have the right crew involved. But that is a blip, I feel. England’s under 19s have been blessed with a very deep crop of seamers this year and last. There are very high hopes for Sharma at Middx becoming an England seamer.
The point is, there is huge depth. The problem is the set up has dismissed county cricket. The arrogance of Key, McCullum, and Stokes is beyond belief.
I actually want Stokes to stay as captain. But Key and McCullum have to go. Immediately. [Post edited 18 Dec 11:07]
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Some very good points here.
i had Superhoops2808 accuse me of going backwards when suggesting Sibley and Hameed as going backwards but both had very solid seasons and hope the next squads batsmen are not just based on how fast they can score. Bethell has to be given a chance next match but agree with James Rew being a name high on the roster choice.
Agree Stokes could be higher up the order and feel Jacks could be moved higher up as has shown application and offers something as a second spinner. Personally before the tour, i would not have selected Jacks. Smith could still work as a wicketkeeper batsmen and again not sure i would have selected him initially.
Yes Superhoops2808, i know you accused me at the time of Surrey bias when i suggested Crawley wasnt good enough but i did also say the same of Pope, both for me need to be bombed out immediately. Both have had way too many chances.
Borh play way too many rash shots.
Never been much of a follower or expert in choosing the bowlers. Obviously the Wood experiment has not worked but bring in Tongue and Potts and i feel Atkinson should still be given a chance ahead of Carse anyhow. Archer is our number one. Stokes as a bowler for me should not be relied on. Give Bashir a go. Rehan Ahmed perhaps and the stats on Leach are interesting.
I think this last innings with Stokes and Archer showing us tbat Bazball has had its day. Root is always our one star player and always had hope with Duckett.
So far though, another massive disapointment has been Brooks. His previous form has saved him from being jetissoned with Pope and Crawley but his bazball failures have been extremely poor.
McCullum could see has had his time. Maybe Key too and Stokes am unsure of as captain, still clearly warrants his selection, but there doesnt seem to be any other credible option currently as captain.
Anyone with greater county knowledge than myself got any idea who could be our next captain if Stokes got crocked, which is always a possibility. [Post edited 19 Dec 1:28]
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| Ashes thread on 05:54 - Dec 19 with 577 views | SydneyRs |
| Ashes thread on 11:42 - Dec 18 by johnhoop |
I think that England’s only hope of winning the Ashes back in the foreseeable future is if some of the players that Hunter’s named prove to be truly Test class and the Aussie replacements for their ageing frontline strike force of Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood Boland and Lyon aren’t anywhere near in the same class. Then at least it might be competitive. |
We should have won the last home series 4-1, and would have won it 3-2 but for two days of rain in Manchester.
Down here yes, we get thrashed every time (aside from the amazing success including 3 innings victories in 2010/11), but Aus haven't won a series in England since I think 2001. I haven't been watching this series (can't be bothered with all the media crap that surrounds England tours, seen the same old nonsense too many times now), but its going much as expected.
They do have an issue with their bowling attack all getting old together. There's been signs this series with some missing games. By the time they next go to England, they'll either be retired or over the hill. We should be a good chance. |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 06:55 - Dec 19 with 547 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Ashes thread on 10:08 - Dec 18 by Hunterhoop |
The thing is, there are lots of very good county players waiting in the wings. Loads of them.
But this set up doesn’t value county cricket so the casual England fan will not have heard or seen many of them.
Hameed is a completely different player to the one that last played for England. He averaged in the 66 as Notts’ opener as they won the CC this year, facing Div 1 attacks all season. He should play.
You could make a similar case for Dom Sibley, who, whilst not different, continues to score prolifically. Averaged 61 last season.
James Rew at Somerset is the best young batsmen I have seen play county cricket since Joe Root and Johnny Bairstow emerged at the same time at Yorkshire. Superb talent. He keeps for Somerset too, although I don’t actually rate his keeping much. He should be in the England side. Could be a great.
Jordan Cox at Kent is a better keeper and batsman than Jamie Smith. He should have that role.
Tom Haines and Emilio Gay are decent openers. The former has been doing it for years, is a leader, and is responsible. The latter is attacking with a high ceiling.
Ben Compton out scores Crawley in like for like matches every season at Kent.
Rehan Ahmed a young leggie who batted 3 for Leics as they steamrollered Div 2, averaging very well.
Tom Abell averaged over 50 this year, is a leader having captained Somerset for years from when he was 21. Knuckles down and delivered regularly.
Coles looks an extremely progressive cricketer.
Ed Barnard is an excellent, professional all rounder, even if his bowling is a little pedestrian for International cricket. Would say he is better than Beau Webster, Aus’ back up all rounder.
Lewis Gregory a similar sort of player, and a leader, who delivers in clutch moments.
Leach took 50 wickets in Div 1 at 23 this year. Took 40 off last year at 23. Basically since England dropped him, he has been by far the best spinner in county cricket, English or overseas. He’s out bowled Harmer who is SA’s first choice spinner now and who bowled them to victory in India.
The seam bowling stocks probably aren’t as deep as we’d like. England probably have the right crew involved. But that is a blip, I feel. England’s under 19s have been blessed with a very deep crop of seamers this year and last. There are very high hopes for Sharma at Middx becoming an England seamer.
The point is, there is huge depth. The problem is the set up has dismissed county cricket. The arrogance of Key, McCullum, and Stokes is beyond belief.
I actually want Stokes to stay as captain. But Key and McCullum have to go. Immediately. [Post edited 18 Dec 11:07]
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Ah the English cricket fan - a thrashing in Australia and suddenly the county championship holds all these great players that if only we had picked we would have won.
Sure Key and McCullum have failed in their ultimate ambition to win the Ashes and will no doubt fall on their swords, but at least they have had a go at something different. I refuse to hate them for that.
I like all the players you mention. I think Rehan Ahmed is the best of them, and he was out in Oz but had to fly home injured I believe, else he may well have been drafted in.
But the rest, as much as I think they are good players, to say they are better than what we have is not true in my opinion. I mean, I'm a Kent man and I love Ben Compton. But Crawley has more talent in his left toenail than Compo (and Zak's failed miserably too) and you can't claim that Second Division hundreds mean that he would have been seeing off Starc and Cummins in Australia.
Jordan Cox is the best bet, he has the arrogance you need and McCullum and Stokes wanted him but every time they tried to get him in the side he got injured. Unfortunate.
The others you mention are good players but no-one is going to tell me they would have beaten this Oz side in Australia.
The sad fact is that neither side wins away Ashes tours anymore, and even sadder is that only in England are the Ashes competitive. Away from home it is like us playing Zimbabwe - not even a contest really, and that is dangerous for Test Cricket.
But sure, abuse Key, McCullum and Stokes for trying, replacing them with (erm, who, exactly?) some new lot who think going back to Sibley and poking around for 80 overs for 200 runs is going to win us an Away Ashes is going to do the trick....peeing in the wind sadly.
I praise the hierarchy for the previous 3 years of Tests they have given us. We were awful before they turned up, home and away, but they have made us competitive apart from here.
My main criticism for McCullum is that in fact he didn't stick to his guns. He fell foul of the old media bores and no-marks like Agnew who think getting caught at slip driving in Tests is akin to committing a murder. Who thinks if only we had played a practice game against deliberately weakened opposition on a track deliberately doctored to bear no resemblance to a Test pitch, we would have won easily. Who thinks if we had trained endlessly rather than go to the beach for a few days we would have won this Test. I watched Agnew bowl - he could barely reach the crease and get the ball down the other end, never mind beat Oz away, so why we have to listen to him I don't know.
Ironically, in this Test of all Tests, is where we should have Bazballed. At its height, bowling them out for 370 would have given us a chance. Instead, we prod about in confused fashion. Should have kept your beliefs, Baz....(although, of course, we would still have lost).
They tried, they lost, they should probably go. Not Stokes, he should always stay and always captain as long as he can move.
And, as always, our home Tests will make the new crew look good. Then we will go to Oz and.....argh. |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 06:59 - Dec 19 with 540 views | LimehouseR |
So disappointing as always.
Some strange selection decisions as well have not help. Will Jacks, seriously? He's gone for over 100 runs agin this innings. Picked for his batting but he's not going to save us with any significant score now, the match is already over. Clearly something up with Stokes, despite what they say, he should have been bowling by now.
The bowlers keep going with this braindead approach of wide and short and guess what? They get creamed with the cut shot. Surely they must realise this and try something else but no.
The Aussies must actually be disappointed as well. Surely they get bored of easing their way to a 5-0 EVERY time. They haven't even played amazingly well either, they haven't needed to. |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 07:05 - Dec 19 with 537 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Ashes thread on 06:59 - Dec 19 by LimehouseR |
So disappointing as always.
Some strange selection decisions as well have not help. Will Jacks, seriously? He's gone for over 100 runs agin this innings. Picked for his batting but he's not going to save us with any significant score now, the match is already over. Clearly something up with Stokes, despite what they say, he should have been bowling by now.
The bowlers keep going with this braindead approach of wide and short and guess what? They get creamed with the cut shot. Surely they must realise this and try something else but no.
The Aussies must actually be disappointed as well. Surely they get bored of easing their way to a 5-0 EVERY time. They haven't even played amazingly well either, they haven't needed to. |
Good point - the Oz may love pulverising us, but it being a procession every single time can't do the Ashes any favours. Their games against India will soon become more of interest.
Maybe the Ashes should only ever be played in England. You can't name a classic Ashes series that was played in Oz, which is shocking. | | | |
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| Ashes thread on 07:08 - Dec 19 with 533 views | Tonto |
This morning' s look atvthe score was met with little emotion in the Tonto household. More just a nod of inevitably.
Oh for 2011... he bowls to the leeeeftt... [Post edited 19 Dec 7:09]
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| Ashes thread on 07:20 - Dec 19 with 519 views | ozexile |
4 years in the making this tour. We end up with Root bowling one end and a part time spinner the other. Heads must roll. | | | |
| Ashes thread on 08:26 - Dec 19 with 463 views | Rsole |
| Ashes thread on 07:20 - Dec 19 by ozexile |
4 years in the making this tour. We end up with Root bowling one end and a part time spinner the other. Heads must roll. |
I wish Head would role, I’ve seen quite enough of him so far. |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Ashes thread on 08:44 - Dec 19 with 441 views | TheChef |
| Ashes thread on 06:59 - Dec 19 by LimehouseR |
So disappointing as always.
Some strange selection decisions as well have not help. Will Jacks, seriously? He's gone for over 100 runs agin this innings. Picked for his batting but he's not going to save us with any significant score now, the match is already over. Clearly something up with Stokes, despite what they say, he should have been bowling by now.
The bowlers keep going with this braindead approach of wide and short and guess what? They get creamed with the cut shot. Surely they must realise this and try something else but no.
The Aussies must actually be disappointed as well. Surely they get bored of easing their way to a 5-0 EVERY time. They haven't even played amazingly well either, they haven't needed to. |
Fair play to Archer though. Scores a 50, then goes and bowls ten overs for 15 runs sadly without reward.
There's been the occasional decent individual performance so far in the series, but as a cohesive team unit, fkn awful.
Assume they've already rebooked Noosa for four years' time... |  |
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| Ashes thread on 08:48 - Dec 19 with 436 views | PinnerR |
| Ashes thread on 00:05 - Dec 19 by CamberleyR |
They also normally use UltraEdge and not Snicko which is the Lidl/Aldi offering compared to the former which is made by Hawkeye. Not sure whether it was the ICC or the host broadcaster who decided. |
It's the host broadcaster who decides, which is ridiculous. The ICC should decide on one format for all Tests. |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 09:40 - Dec 19 with 396 views | ted_hendrix |
If they want or need to bat England to death they can and will.
If they want or need to bowl England to death they can and will.
The England team have been totally humbled by a far better team and that's the glaring fact.
What the England hierarchy will do about It gawd Knows. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:43 - Dec 19 with 384 views | ozexile |
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| Ashes thread on 09:46 - Dec 19 with 371 views | Superhoops2808 |
| Ashes thread on 10:08 - Dec 18 by Hunterhoop |
The thing is, there are lots of very good county players waiting in the wings. Loads of them.
But this set up doesn’t value county cricket so the casual England fan will not have heard or seen many of them.
Hameed is a completely different player to the one that last played for England. He averaged in the 66 as Notts’ opener as they won the CC this year, facing Div 1 attacks all season. He should play.
You could make a similar case for Dom Sibley, who, whilst not different, continues to score prolifically. Averaged 61 last season.
James Rew at Somerset is the best young batsmen I have seen play county cricket since Joe Root and Johnny Bairstow emerged at the same time at Yorkshire. Superb talent. He keeps for Somerset too, although I don’t actually rate his keeping much. He should be in the England side. Could be a great.
Jordan Cox at Kent is a better keeper and batsman than Jamie Smith. He should have that role.
Tom Haines and Emilio Gay are decent openers. The former has been doing it for years, is a leader, and is responsible. The latter is attacking with a high ceiling.
Ben Compton out scores Crawley in like for like matches every season at Kent.
Rehan Ahmed a young leggie who batted 3 for Leics as they steamrollered Div 2, averaging very well.
Tom Abell averaged over 50 this year, is a leader having captained Somerset for years from when he was 21. Knuckles down and delivered regularly.
Coles looks an extremely progressive cricketer.
Ed Barnard is an excellent, professional all rounder, even if his bowling is a little pedestrian for International cricket. Would say he is better than Beau Webster, Aus’ back up all rounder.
Lewis Gregory a similar sort of player, and a leader, who delivers in clutch moments.
Leach took 50 wickets in Div 1 at 23 this year. Took 40 off last year at 23. Basically since England dropped him, he has been by far the best spinner in county cricket, English or overseas. He’s out bowled Harmer who is SA’s first choice spinner now and who bowled them to victory in India.
The seam bowling stocks probably aren’t as deep as we’d like. England probably have the right crew involved. But that is a blip, I feel. England’s under 19s have been blessed with a very deep crop of seamers this year and last. There are very high hopes for Sharma at Middx becoming an England seamer.
The point is, there is huge depth. The problem is the set up has dismissed county cricket. The arrogance of Key, McCullum, and Stokes is beyond belief.
I actually want Stokes to stay as captain. But Key and McCullum have to go. Immediately. [Post edited 18 Dec 11:07]
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Have to say Hunter not much there I don’t agree with and as I county cricket follower can add some further thoughts.
Based on this tour, and the outcome we have all witnessed, lets start with management. Key and McCullum have to go and we have to look to building a young team from scratch. In the women's, Charlotte Edwards said she was going to do this and sadly has yet to live up to expectations. I don’t have the first clue in terms of coaches etc but you are right, it has to change and we need to look at a youth policy going forward.
Lets first look at openers. Duckett should stay for me, and although he has failed to perform this tour he is a solid performer generally. Time to let Crawley go whether it be for good or a break despite him being in the top 10 runs scorer (AUS/ENG combined) he has failed to deliver. A player you haven’t mentioned is Tawanda Muyeye. A 24 year old who at 18 won the Young Wisden Schools Cricketer of the year – won by several England cricketers. I think he would be a good addition as an opener with youth I mind, and also agree with Gay who is a solid performer. On the subject of Ben Compton, a great innings builder but he is just that, a builder and its back to the days of Sibley (answering that one too)!! I agree you want someone to build an innings but you want people to do it at a sensible speed. Crawley/Duckett – Sibley/Compton are complete opposite ends of the spectrum and we need someone in the middle. Brook too should stick to white ball cricket. He is not a test player.
Then, you have to keep Root, but Ahmed would be another good addition you have mentioned but he has been playing Div 2 and would like to see how he manages in Div 1. To be fair, the competition in Div 2 this season has been woeful. I agree with James Coles (Sussex) my only fear is he may be more of a white ball player but has to be a contender if we follow a youth policy (and he is an all rounder). Ed Barnard is like another version of Darren Stevens and he never got a look in.
Now for the Somerset boys. Too late for Tom Abell but Lewis Gregory (despite being older than Abell) is a very good shout and I have to say always admired him as a player and he could make a good captain but a big call bringing a new player in and installing him as captain. James Rew has to replace Jamie Smith who in my opinion has been the biggest disappointment of this tour. That said, Rew’s brother Thomas is another one for the future. He is also a wicket-keeper and very solid batsmen.
Stokes should stay but not sure re captain.
Amazed at those stats for Leach and do wonder why he isn’t in Aus right now. Archer should remain, as well as Atkinson, despite his lack of wickets he was economical. As for your comment re bowlers, its very true and in fact a lot of counties are struggling to bring through solid seam bowlers which is why so many overseas players are bowlers currently. In effect, we are training other countries bowlers – Exhibit A being Kyle Abbott at Hampshire who was one of the leading wicket takers last year. Do any Essex supporters have any info on Sam Cook, I remember seeing him as a solid bowler previously.
On a side note for insider info (not ready yet for England but ones to watch), a couple of Kent your players to watch for… Joey Evison, a really good all-rounder. Jayden Denly (yes nephew and another all-rounder of Joe) and Ekansh Singh. All these are All-rounders who have represented England U19 and Singh and Denly has both captained the side. All to add to the County game knowledge.
With regards to the Ashes if we lost 5-0 I wouldn’t have such an issue if it had been close, but it has not. There has been no fight, no backbone and real passion to right the wrongs, no lessons learned. I think not only is it the arrogance of the three you have mentioned, but the whole planning of the tour. The lack of warm up matches and taking advantage of breaks to have an additional warm up is beyond belief but that has been discussed to death here already. And I also think that the test players MUST play all available CC when on a Central Contract and not have the ECB interfering. My future XI in an ideal world going forward (and I emphasise ideal):
Duckett
Gay/Muyeye
Ahmed/Bethell
Root
Stokes
Coles
Rew
Atkinson
Archer
Tongue/TBD?
Leach
I know my county friend here (GaryB) has suggested that the county championship doesn’t hold all the answers and he is correct… However, it does hold a few solutions we can go forward with. |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 09:53 - Dec 19 with 359 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Ashes thread on 09:46 - Dec 19 by Superhoops2808 |
Have to say Hunter not much there I don’t agree with and as I county cricket follower can add some further thoughts.
Based on this tour, and the outcome we have all witnessed, lets start with management. Key and McCullum have to go and we have to look to building a young team from scratch. In the women's, Charlotte Edwards said she was going to do this and sadly has yet to live up to expectations. I don’t have the first clue in terms of coaches etc but you are right, it has to change and we need to look at a youth policy going forward.
Lets first look at openers. Duckett should stay for me, and although he has failed to perform this tour he is a solid performer generally. Time to let Crawley go whether it be for good or a break despite him being in the top 10 runs scorer (AUS/ENG combined) he has failed to deliver. A player you haven’t mentioned is Tawanda Muyeye. A 24 year old who at 18 won the Young Wisden Schools Cricketer of the year – won by several England cricketers. I think he would be a good addition as an opener with youth I mind, and also agree with Gay who is a solid performer. On the subject of Ben Compton, a great innings builder but he is just that, a builder and its back to the days of Sibley (answering that one too)!! I agree you want someone to build an innings but you want people to do it at a sensible speed. Crawley/Duckett – Sibley/Compton are complete opposite ends of the spectrum and we need someone in the middle. Brook too should stick to white ball cricket. He is not a test player.
Then, you have to keep Root, but Ahmed would be another good addition you have mentioned but he has been playing Div 2 and would like to see how he manages in Div 1. To be fair, the competition in Div 2 this season has been woeful. I agree with James Coles (Sussex) my only fear is he may be more of a white ball player but has to be a contender if we follow a youth policy (and he is an all rounder). Ed Barnard is like another version of Darren Stevens and he never got a look in.
Now for the Somerset boys. Too late for Tom Abell but Lewis Gregory (despite being older than Abell) is a very good shout and I have to say always admired him as a player and he could make a good captain but a big call bringing a new player in and installing him as captain. James Rew has to replace Jamie Smith who in my opinion has been the biggest disappointment of this tour. That said, Rew’s brother Thomas is another one for the future. He is also a wicket-keeper and very solid batsmen.
Stokes should stay but not sure re captain.
Amazed at those stats for Leach and do wonder why he isn’t in Aus right now. Archer should remain, as well as Atkinson, despite his lack of wickets he was economical. As for your comment re bowlers, its very true and in fact a lot of counties are struggling to bring through solid seam bowlers which is why so many overseas players are bowlers currently. In effect, we are training other countries bowlers – Exhibit A being Kyle Abbott at Hampshire who was one of the leading wicket takers last year. Do any Essex supporters have any info on Sam Cook, I remember seeing him as a solid bowler previously.
On a side note for insider info (not ready yet for England but ones to watch), a couple of Kent your players to watch for… Joey Evison, a really good all-rounder. Jayden Denly (yes nephew and another all-rounder of Joe) and Ekansh Singh. All these are All-rounders who have represented England U19 and Singh and Denly has both captained the side. All to add to the County game knowledge.
With regards to the Ashes if we lost 5-0 I wouldn’t have such an issue if it had been close, but it has not. There has been no fight, no backbone and real passion to right the wrongs, no lessons learned. I think not only is it the arrogance of the three you have mentioned, but the whole planning of the tour. The lack of warm up matches and taking advantage of breaks to have an additional warm up is beyond belief but that has been discussed to death here already. And I also think that the test players MUST play all available CC when on a Central Contract and not have the ECB interfering. My future XI in an ideal world going forward (and I emphasise ideal):
Duckett
Gay/Muyeye
Ahmed/Bethell
Root
Stokes
Coles
Rew
Atkinson
Archer
Tongue/TBD?
Leach
I know my county friend here (GaryB) has suggested that the county championship doesn’t hold all the answers and he is correct… However, it does hold a few solutions we can go forward with. |
Mate, as a fellow Kent man, obviously Muyeye is an exciting talent. But opening the batting in Tests, my word.
As for saying Brook isn't a Test batter, couldn't disagree more. I think he is a thick as a whale omelette, which makes his captaincy credentials somewhat worrying, but he just needs some proper clarity in his batting and his already excellent record will improve.
I do have high hopes for the Ahmed brothers and Rews, don't get me wrong. But there's no Root, Stokes, Warne, Starcs in there sadly. | | | |
| Ashes thread on 11:29 - Dec 19 with 300 views | Superhoops2808 |
| Ashes thread on 09:53 - Dec 19 by GaryBannister86 |
Mate, as a fellow Kent man, obviously Muyeye is an exciting talent. But opening the batting in Tests, my word.
As for saying Brook isn't a Test batter, couldn't disagree more. I think he is a thick as a whale omelette, which makes his captaincy credentials somewhat worrying, but he just needs some proper clarity in his batting and his already excellent record will improve.
I do have high hopes for the Ahmed brothers and Rews, don't get me wrong. But there's no Root, Stokes, Warne, Starcs in there sadly. |
We have to build now going forward. You cannot dump all eleven, but start blooding some now. TM is one such player as is Rew. And as for Brook we need that 'proper clarity' sooner rather than later.
Warne & Root are one of a kind that rarely come along and at the moment you are correct none are up to that standard - So we have to play the hand we have - If we break the run of ashes win in 2 years time, we may, be able to build on that.
This England team is as stale as the bread I have just toasted and we need fresh minds and talent, not recalling people that have played as this will just taint that plan as well. (I know you didnt suggest that) | | | |
| Ashes thread on 11:34 - Dec 19 with 291 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Ashes thread on 11:29 - Dec 19 by Superhoops2808 |
We have to build now going forward. You cannot dump all eleven, but start blooding some now. TM is one such player as is Rew. And as for Brook we need that 'proper clarity' sooner rather than later.
Warne & Root are one of a kind that rarely come along and at the moment you are correct none are up to that standard - So we have to play the hand we have - If we break the run of ashes win in 2 years time, we may, be able to build on that.
This England team is as stale as the bread I have just toasted and we need fresh minds and talent, not recalling people that have played as this will just taint that plan as well. (I know you didnt suggest that) |
Yes. Joey Evison is my favourite Kent player at the moment but I can't honestly see him ever playing for England.
Of the kids you named I think you missed out the best prospect in Dawkins, already going through the England age groups.
But...on to another cycle we go. It's so predictable, it's quite sad really. I just can't fault Baz for trying something else, I refuse to believe our "normal" methods with this group would have done any better.
I mean those calling for the return of Leach - really? You honestly think he wouldn't have been 1-100 here as well? He's a bang average international "spinner" (slow bowler really), he isn't going to have suddenly bamboozled Travis Head.
The really depressing thing is that the Aussies have been riddled with injuries to their very best players! And we still can't get anywhere near. | | | |
| Ashes thread on 12:44 - Dec 19 with 250 views | CamberleyR |
| Ashes thread on 11:34 - Dec 19 by GaryBannister86 |
Yes. Joey Evison is my favourite Kent player at the moment but I can't honestly see him ever playing for England.
Of the kids you named I think you missed out the best prospect in Dawkins, already going through the England age groups.
But...on to another cycle we go. It's so predictable, it's quite sad really. I just can't fault Baz for trying something else, I refuse to believe our "normal" methods with this group would have done any better.
I mean those calling for the return of Leach - really? You honestly think he wouldn't have been 1-100 here as well? He's a bang average international "spinner" (slow bowler really), he isn't going to have suddenly bamboozled Travis Head.
The really depressing thing is that the Aussies have been riddled with injuries to their very best players! And we still can't get anywhere near. |
Yes Leach is no massive spinner of the ball and is never going to regularly spin teams out but I'm fairly sure he would have been able to tie an end down (unlike Jacks), put some pressure on their batsmen with a few maidens and try and let Stokes rest and rotate the pace bowlers properly like Cummins has been able to do with Lyon.
His economy rate in tests is a fag paper over 3 (3.08) and he has five five fors in 39 tests. As a comparison his strike rate in tests is not that much worse than Lyon's (61.4 Lyon, 66.2 Leach)
Would he really not have been the worst option at least to have in the squad? [Post edited 19 Dec 14:35]
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| Ashes thread on 14:33 - Dec 19 with 191 views | Hunterhoop |
| Ashes thread on 06:55 - Dec 19 by GaryBannister86 |
Ah the English cricket fan - a thrashing in Australia and suddenly the county championship holds all these great players that if only we had picked we would have won.
Sure Key and McCullum have failed in their ultimate ambition to win the Ashes and will no doubt fall on their swords, but at least they have had a go at something different. I refuse to hate them for that.
I like all the players you mention. I think Rehan Ahmed is the best of them, and he was out in Oz but had to fly home injured I believe, else he may well have been drafted in.
But the rest, as much as I think they are good players, to say they are better than what we have is not true in my opinion. I mean, I'm a Kent man and I love Ben Compton. But Crawley has more talent in his left toenail than Compo (and Zak's failed miserably too) and you can't claim that Second Division hundreds mean that he would have been seeing off Starc and Cummins in Australia.
Jordan Cox is the best bet, he has the arrogance you need and McCullum and Stokes wanted him but every time they tried to get him in the side he got injured. Unfortunate.
The others you mention are good players but no-one is going to tell me they would have beaten this Oz side in Australia.
The sad fact is that neither side wins away Ashes tours anymore, and even sadder is that only in England are the Ashes competitive. Away from home it is like us playing Zimbabwe - not even a contest really, and that is dangerous for Test Cricket.
But sure, abuse Key, McCullum and Stokes for trying, replacing them with (erm, who, exactly?) some new lot who think going back to Sibley and poking around for 80 overs for 200 runs is going to win us an Away Ashes is going to do the trick....peeing in the wind sadly.
I praise the hierarchy for the previous 3 years of Tests they have given us. We were awful before they turned up, home and away, but they have made us competitive apart from here.
My main criticism for McCullum is that in fact he didn't stick to his guns. He fell foul of the old media bores and no-marks like Agnew who think getting caught at slip driving in Tests is akin to committing a murder. Who thinks if only we had played a practice game against deliberately weakened opposition on a track deliberately doctored to bear no resemblance to a Test pitch, we would have won easily. Who thinks if we had trained endlessly rather than go to the beach for a few days we would have won this Test. I watched Agnew bowl - he could barely reach the crease and get the ball down the other end, never mind beat Oz away, so why we have to listen to him I don't know.
Ironically, in this Test of all Tests, is where we should have Bazballed. At its height, bowling them out for 370 would have given us a chance. Instead, we prod about in confused fashion. Should have kept your beliefs, Baz....(although, of course, we would still have lost).
They tried, they lost, they should probably go. Not Stokes, he should always stay and always captain as long as he can move.
And, as always, our home Tests will make the new crew look good. Then we will go to Oz and.....argh. |
I never said if we picked these players we would have won in Aus. Straw man alert.
The point I was making, in response to question posed earlier, is that there is a lot of talent in county cricket to select as alternatives to the current side. There is the talent to create a competitive, accountability culture within the England team. It is simply not the case that they have to select the squad they have and keep picking the same players because there is no one else.
Crawley, Pope, Bashir, Bethell, Smith…there are very valid alternatives to all of them. Does that mean we would have won, no? But if this side had a culture with more personal accountability in it, then, yes, we might have competed better.
They are going to lose the Ashes in the fewest number of days of cricket since 1921. As Ashes tours go, it has been an unmitigated disaster. They’ve ignored conventional wisdom on so many fronts, basically saying “we know better” and then they’ve gone and performed abysmally. Criticism is entirely warranted.
Also, McCullum sending out Tresco after Day 1 and Day 2 and Jeetan Patel after Day 3 is cowardly. |  | | |
| Ashes thread on 14:36 - Dec 19 with 181 views | TheChef |
| Ashes thread on 06:55 - Dec 19 by GaryBannister86 |
Ah the English cricket fan - a thrashing in Australia and suddenly the county championship holds all these great players that if only we had picked we would have won.
Sure Key and McCullum have failed in their ultimate ambition to win the Ashes and will no doubt fall on their swords, but at least they have had a go at something different. I refuse to hate them for that.
I like all the players you mention. I think Rehan Ahmed is the best of them, and he was out in Oz but had to fly home injured I believe, else he may well have been drafted in.
But the rest, as much as I think they are good players, to say they are better than what we have is not true in my opinion. I mean, I'm a Kent man and I love Ben Compton. But Crawley has more talent in his left toenail than Compo (and Zak's failed miserably too) and you can't claim that Second Division hundreds mean that he would have been seeing off Starc and Cummins in Australia.
Jordan Cox is the best bet, he has the arrogance you need and McCullum and Stokes wanted him but every time they tried to get him in the side he got injured. Unfortunate.
The others you mention are good players but no-one is going to tell me they would have beaten this Oz side in Australia.
The sad fact is that neither side wins away Ashes tours anymore, and even sadder is that only in England are the Ashes competitive. Away from home it is like us playing Zimbabwe - not even a contest really, and that is dangerous for Test Cricket.
But sure, abuse Key, McCullum and Stokes for trying, replacing them with (erm, who, exactly?) some new lot who think going back to Sibley and poking around for 80 overs for 200 runs is going to win us an Away Ashes is going to do the trick....peeing in the wind sadly.
I praise the hierarchy for the previous 3 years of Tests they have given us. We were awful before they turned up, home and away, but they have made us competitive apart from here.
My main criticism for McCullum is that in fact he didn't stick to his guns. He fell foul of the old media bores and no-marks like Agnew who think getting caught at slip driving in Tests is akin to committing a murder. Who thinks if only we had played a practice game against deliberately weakened opposition on a track deliberately doctored to bear no resemblance to a Test pitch, we would have won easily. Who thinks if we had trained endlessly rather than go to the beach for a few days we would have won this Test. I watched Agnew bowl - he could barely reach the crease and get the ball down the other end, never mind beat Oz away, so why we have to listen to him I don't know.
Ironically, in this Test of all Tests, is where we should have Bazballed. At its height, bowling them out for 370 would have given us a chance. Instead, we prod about in confused fashion. Should have kept your beliefs, Baz....(although, of course, we would still have lost).
They tried, they lost, they should probably go. Not Stokes, he should always stay and always captain as long as he can move.
And, as always, our home Tests will make the new crew look good. Then we will go to Oz and.....argh. |
Appreciate McCullum trying a different approach, and when it worked it was exciting to watch. But cricket presents you with lots of different situations and you have to sometimes temper your aggression and play more pragmatically. But arrogantly or otherwise he would only ever stick with one approach, and especially playing overseas you will come unstuck if you don't consider implementing different plans. | |
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| Ashes thread on 14:37 - Dec 19 with 174 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Ashes thread on 12:44 - Dec 19 by CamberleyR |
Yes Leach is no massive spinner of the ball and is never going to regularly spin teams out but I'm fairly sure he would have been able to tie an end down (unlike Jacks), put some pressure on their batsmen with a few maidens and try and let Stokes rest and rotate the pace bowlers properly like Cummins has been able to do with Lyon.
His economy rate in tests is a fag paper over 3 (3.08) and he has five five fors in 39 tests. As a comparison his strike rate in tests is not that much worse than Lyon's (61.4 Lyon, 66.2 Leach)
Would he really not have been the worst option at least to have in the squad? [Post edited 19 Dec 14:35]
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Fair point, but stats tend to go out the window on tours to Oz, is my issue. Bashir's stats are actually pretty good but we all know how that would have gone.
As much as I have a soft spot for McCullum and Stokes, I do concede that when they fancy a player they have an unhealthy desire to back them for ever. Back them to a certain extent, yes, but they do have to prove themselves as consistent performers eventually. I mean I like both Crawley and Pope as players but it is all looking a bit foolish right now.
I would be intrigued what would happen if they stay on. I can't see Key sacking McCullum so Key would have to be sacked first, and not sure how likely that is. Perhaps Key resigning is the most obvious thing. If they stayed, would they change their methods? They would have to give up on Crawley, Pope, Bashir for a starter, is my guess. | | | |
| Ashes thread on 14:47 - Dec 19 with 158 views | Hunterhoop |
| Ashes thread on 14:37 - Dec 19 by GaryBannister86 |
Fair point, but stats tend to go out the window on tours to Oz, is my issue. Bashir's stats are actually pretty good but we all know how that would have gone.
As much as I have a soft spot for McCullum and Stokes, I do concede that when they fancy a player they have an unhealthy desire to back them for ever. Back them to a certain extent, yes, but they do have to prove themselves as consistent performers eventually. I mean I like both Crawley and Pope as players but it is all looking a bit foolish right now.
I would be intrigued what would happen if they stay on. I can't see Key sacking McCullum so Key would have to be sacked first, and not sure how likely that is. Perhaps Key resigning is the most obvious thing. If they stayed, would they change their methods? They would have to give up on Crawley, Pope, Bashir for a starter, is my guess. |
Point of order: Bashir’s stats are not “quite good.”
Tests: 68 wickets at an average of 39, with an economy of 3.8.
FC record: 87 wickets at an average of 50, with an economy of 3.7.
That isn’t quite good.
Jack Leach (for context)
Tests: 142 wickets at 34, and an economy of 3.08
FC: 547 wickets at 27, and an economy of 2.75.
I don’t think Leach is some wonder spinner. He is not. He’s a competent finger spinner though. Bashir is not that (yet). He should be learning his trade in county cricket currently. Taking Bashir without a back up spinner was foolish. It was obvious when the squad was announced and it has been proven to be foolish. | | | |
| Ashes thread on 14:53 - Dec 19 with 149 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Ashes thread on 14:47 - Dec 19 by Hunterhoop |
Point of order: Bashir’s stats are not “quite good.”
Tests: 68 wickets at an average of 39, with an economy of 3.8.
FC record: 87 wickets at an average of 50, with an economy of 3.7.
That isn’t quite good.
Jack Leach (for context)
Tests: 142 wickets at 34, and an economy of 3.08
FC: 547 wickets at 27, and an economy of 2.75.
I don’t think Leach is some wonder spinner. He is not. He’s a competent finger spinner though. Bashir is not that (yet). He should be learning his trade in county cricket currently. Taking Bashir without a back up spinner was foolish. It was obvious when the squad was announced and it has been proven to be foolish. |
True, but isn't he the youngest spinner or something ever to get 50 wickets? I do agree Leach is a good bowler, but as this tour shows good isn't going to make much difference. | | | |
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