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I think you're making stuff up a bit here. The expert in the video hasn't mentioned a maximum 10 year life for the pitch. Are you also suggesting that Spotland has it's own micro climate that is different to surrounding local amateur pitches and Boundary Park which is literally walking distance from our ground? Even if it did top the rainfall table it wouldn't be so significant to see the pitch perform so poorly in comparison to those so close. If the drains etc aren't in particularly bad condition then commonsense would suggest that the pitch might not have been looked after correctly over the years. That's just an assumption though but the posibility of poor pitch work has to also be considered going forward. The way the club has been run down over the years, it wouldn't be a surprise. These people working on the pitch will be able to work out why the pitch has imploded and i'd be surprised if it's down to rainfall which is unique to Rochdale. If that's the case then we would need the best drainage in the Country to feel confident of solving the problem.
[Post edited 15 Dec 21:03]
Rochdale is wetter than Blackburn , Burnley Oldham, Burnley and Bury , it also has more wet days than those places, not huge amounts but significant amounts. Bury's pitch was built on a plinth as is Manchester United, hence higher than the surrounding track, clearly Burnley and Blackburn probably have means to work more extensively and more often than we do and Oldham rebuilt their pitch a couple of years ago with help from the Council. ..The point is that pitches in this part of the world have to cope with the pitch being wet more often and with more precipitation than pitches almost anywhere else in the top 5 divisions with the exception of Barrow... So, why does Spotland seem to hold more water than local pitches.. probably because the water is effectively held in a "bath" made up of the 4 stands and their foundations, hence the importance of under-pitch drains. As for places like Lenny Barn and Firgrove, I am not aware of them ever having had major work , but then I have memories of playing 4 games in a week.Sat. Tues. Thurs and Sat again on Firgrove in May because so many games were called off during the season but to be fair that was 50 years ago...
Location Average Annual Rainfall (mm) Source Information Rochdale 1,197.2 mm 1991–2020 data from Met Office and Starlings Roost Weather Burnley 1,113.8 mm Data based on weather reports collected during 2012–2021 Blackburn 1,009 mm Long-term climate trends Oldham 780 mm Data from NearWeather, specific timeframe not stated Bury 736.6 mm Data from Weather Spark based on reports collected
Rochdale is wetter than Blackburn , Burnley Oldham, Burnley and Bury , it also has more wet days than those places, not huge amounts but significant amounts. Bury's pitch was built on a plinth as is Manchester United, hence higher than the surrounding track, clearly Burnley and Blackburn probably have means to work more extensively and more often than we do and Oldham rebuilt their pitch a couple of years ago with help from the Council. ..The point is that pitches in this part of the world have to cope with the pitch being wet more often and with more precipitation than pitches almost anywhere else in the top 5 divisions with the exception of Barrow... So, why does Spotland seem to hold more water than local pitches.. probably because the water is effectively held in a "bath" made up of the 4 stands and their foundations, hence the importance of under-pitch drains. As for places like Lenny Barn and Firgrove, I am not aware of them ever having had major work , but then I have memories of playing 4 games in a week.Sat. Tues. Thurs and Sat again on Firgrove in May because so many games were called off during the season but to be fair that was 50 years ago...
Location Average Annual Rainfall (mm) Source Information Rochdale 1,197.2 mm 1991–2020 data from Met Office and Starlings Roost Weather Burnley 1,113.8 mm Data based on weather reports collected during 2012–2021 Blackburn 1,009 mm Long-term climate trends Oldham 780 mm Data from NearWeather, specific timeframe not stated Bury 736.6 mm Data from Weather Spark based on reports collected
1) Where have the contractors mentioned the rainfall in Rochdale being an issue?
2) Did you note the comments made last week about the infiltration figures?
3) Where is the evidence that supports the opinion that “ the water is effectively held in a "bath" made up of the 4 stands and their foundations”
And, not for the first time, the pitch WAS raised above the level of the surrounding area when the pitch work was completed in 2020.
Rochdale is wetter than Blackburn , Burnley Oldham, Burnley and Bury , it also has more wet days than those places, not huge amounts but significant amounts. Bury's pitch was built on a plinth as is Manchester United, hence higher than the surrounding track, clearly Burnley and Blackburn probably have means to work more extensively and more often than we do and Oldham rebuilt their pitch a couple of years ago with help from the Council. ..The point is that pitches in this part of the world have to cope with the pitch being wet more often and with more precipitation than pitches almost anywhere else in the top 5 divisions with the exception of Barrow... So, why does Spotland seem to hold more water than local pitches.. probably because the water is effectively held in a "bath" made up of the 4 stands and their foundations, hence the importance of under-pitch drains. As for places like Lenny Barn and Firgrove, I am not aware of them ever having had major work , but then I have memories of playing 4 games in a week.Sat. Tues. Thurs and Sat again on Firgrove in May because so many games were called off during the season but to be fair that was 50 years ago...
Location Average Annual Rainfall (mm) Source Information Rochdale 1,197.2 mm 1991–2020 data from Met Office and Starlings Roost Weather Burnley 1,113.8 mm Data based on weather reports collected during 2012–2021 Blackburn 1,009 mm Long-term climate trends Oldham 780 mm Data from NearWeather, specific timeframe not stated Bury 736.6 mm Data from Weather Spark based on reports collected
Blackburn's means aren't up to much then as they've had twice as many games abandoned as we have. [That's because 2x1=2]
You mean you STILL haven't worked out why some posts get down-ticked?
Rochdale is wetter than Blackburn , Burnley Oldham, Burnley and Bury , it also has more wet days than those places, not huge amounts but significant amounts. Bury's pitch was built on a plinth as is Manchester United, hence higher than the surrounding track, clearly Burnley and Blackburn probably have means to work more extensively and more often than we do and Oldham rebuilt their pitch a couple of years ago with help from the Council. ..The point is that pitches in this part of the world have to cope with the pitch being wet more often and with more precipitation than pitches almost anywhere else in the top 5 divisions with the exception of Barrow... So, why does Spotland seem to hold more water than local pitches.. probably because the water is effectively held in a "bath" made up of the 4 stands and their foundations, hence the importance of under-pitch drains. As for places like Lenny Barn and Firgrove, I am not aware of them ever having had major work , but then I have memories of playing 4 games in a week.Sat. Tues. Thurs and Sat again on Firgrove in May because so many games were called off during the season but to be fair that was 50 years ago...
Location Average Annual Rainfall (mm) Source Information Rochdale 1,197.2 mm 1991–2020 data from Met Office and Starlings Roost Weather Burnley 1,113.8 mm Data based on weather reports collected during 2012–2021 Blackburn 1,009 mm Long-term climate trends Oldham 780 mm Data from NearWeather, specific timeframe not stated Bury 736.6 mm Data from Weather Spark based on reports collected
They may have been so many postponements at Firgrove 40 and 50 years ago because there was a distinct policy that if one of the pitches was unfit then all games scheduled for that day were postponed. This was to prevent squabbling about “why aren’t we playing when their game two pitches away is going ahead”.
Rochdale is wetter than Blackburn , Burnley Oldham, Burnley and Bury , it also has more wet days than those places, not huge amounts but significant amounts. Bury's pitch was built on a plinth as is Manchester United, hence higher than the surrounding track, clearly Burnley and Blackburn probably have means to work more extensively and more often than we do and Oldham rebuilt their pitch a couple of years ago with help from the Council. ..The point is that pitches in this part of the world have to cope with the pitch being wet more often and with more precipitation than pitches almost anywhere else in the top 5 divisions with the exception of Barrow... So, why does Spotland seem to hold more water than local pitches.. probably because the water is effectively held in a "bath" made up of the 4 stands and their foundations, hence the importance of under-pitch drains. As for places like Lenny Barn and Firgrove, I am not aware of them ever having had major work , but then I have memories of playing 4 games in a week.Sat. Tues. Thurs and Sat again on Firgrove in May because so many games were called off during the season but to be fair that was 50 years ago...
Location Average Annual Rainfall (mm) Source Information Rochdale 1,197.2 mm 1991–2020 data from Met Office and Starlings Roost Weather Burnley 1,113.8 mm Data based on weather reports collected during 2012–2021 Blackburn 1,009 mm Long-term climate trends Oldham 780 mm Data from NearWeather, specific timeframe not stated Bury 736.6 mm Data from Weather Spark based on reports collected
Well fortunately we have a recognised expert in his field overseeing the installation of the new pitch and everything underneath it. I've done some research into him and his company credentials, it's all on line. They are the best out there and i have no concerns that they wont identify the historic problems in relation to the old pitch and put a plan in place to make sure the infrastructure can cope with the unique Rochdale rainfall. With a annual maintenance plan in place the pitch is going to be great.
Rochdale is wetter than Blackburn , Burnley Oldham, Burnley and Bury , it also has more wet days than those places, not huge amounts but significant amounts. Bury's pitch was built on a plinth as is Manchester United, hence higher than the surrounding track, clearly Burnley and Blackburn probably have means to work more extensively and more often than we do and Oldham rebuilt their pitch a couple of years ago with help from the Council. ..The point is that pitches in this part of the world have to cope with the pitch being wet more often and with more precipitation than pitches almost anywhere else in the top 5 divisions with the exception of Barrow... So, why does Spotland seem to hold more water than local pitches.. probably because the water is effectively held in a "bath" made up of the 4 stands and their foundations, hence the importance of under-pitch drains. As for places like Lenny Barn and Firgrove, I am not aware of them ever having had major work , but then I have memories of playing 4 games in a week.Sat. Tues. Thurs and Sat again on Firgrove in May because so many games were called off during the season but to be fair that was 50 years ago...
Location Average Annual Rainfall (mm) Source Information Rochdale 1,197.2 mm 1991–2020 data from Met Office and Starlings Roost Weather Burnley 1,113.8 mm Data based on weather reports collected during 2012–2021 Blackburn 1,009 mm Long-term climate trends Oldham 780 mm Data from NearWeather, specific timeframe not stated Bury 736.6 mm Data from Weather Spark based on reports collected
Where did you collate the weather data from? I am very sceptical that two locations a few miles apart and without major topographical differences between them (Rochdale and Bury) have a 450mm difference in annual rainfall per year.
Having attended the Shareholders AGM last evening, and heard about pitch developments from those who are organising it, on behalf of those who are funding it, and having shuffled through the mud to get to the meeting (eventually held in Ratcliffe's not the 1907 as the ground is a construction site!) I have no fears whatsoever. What happened in the past needs to stay there, as does the incompetent ***t who used it as an opportunity to self-aggrandise and on who's watch we are in the mess we are in. The here and now screams professionalism, proper contracts and guarantees in place for all stages of the work, daily or bi-daily updates from the contractors to the board, all weather scenarios catered for, and even the use of Accy's ground in the future should any of the planning fail at the COA. Our current drains work. Additional drainage is being added! The problem was the $h1te beneath the turf would not allow excessive rain to drain. Who put that $h1te there? Not commented on by our current directors but we know. There is so much work going on, later in the evening under floodlights. All paid for by the Ogden's
We know charlatans when we see them. We've rooted them out and kicked their backsides out of the COA.
The Ogden investment in the club is the real deal. UP THE DALE.
Having attended the Shareholders AGM last evening, and heard about pitch developments from those who are organising it, on behalf of those who are funding it, and having shuffled through the mud to get to the meeting (eventually held in Ratcliffe's not the 1907 as the ground is a construction site!) I have no fears whatsoever. What happened in the past needs to stay there, as does the incompetent ***t who used it as an opportunity to self-aggrandise and on who's watch we are in the mess we are in. The here and now screams professionalism, proper contracts and guarantees in place for all stages of the work, daily or bi-daily updates from the contractors to the board, all weather scenarios catered for, and even the use of Accy's ground in the future should any of the planning fail at the COA. Our current drains work. Additional drainage is being added! The problem was the $h1te beneath the turf would not allow excessive rain to drain. Who put that $h1te there? Not commented on by our current directors but we know. There is so much work going on, later in the evening under floodlights. All paid for by the Ogden's
We know charlatans when we see them. We've rooted them out and kicked their backsides out of the COA.
The Ogden investment in the club is the real deal. UP THE DALE.
Having attended the Shareholders AGM last evening, and heard about pitch developments from those who are organising it, on behalf of those who are funding it, and having shuffled through the mud to get to the meeting (eventually held in Ratcliffe's not the 1907 as the ground is a construction site!) I have no fears whatsoever. What happened in the past needs to stay there, as does the incompetent ***t who used it as an opportunity to self-aggrandise and on who's watch we are in the mess we are in. The here and now screams professionalism, proper contracts and guarantees in place for all stages of the work, daily or bi-daily updates from the contractors to the board, all weather scenarios catered for, and even the use of Accy's ground in the future should any of the planning fail at the COA. Our current drains work. Additional drainage is being added! The problem was the $h1te beneath the turf would not allow excessive rain to drain. Who put that $h1te there? Not commented on by our current directors but we know. There is so much work going on, later in the evening under floodlights. All paid for by the Ogden's
We know charlatans when we see them. We've rooted them out and kicked their backsides out of the COA.
The Ogden investment in the club is the real deal. UP THE DALE.
Unable to attend last night, so thanks for the insight around the pitch issue
You emphasise the professionalism.of those involved, both in the hiring of the experts and the pitch people carrying out the work
Thank goodness we have intelligence applied to this matter, rather than the crass stupidity of the past, which unfortunately still lingers in certain pockets of the fanbase
Having attended the Shareholders AGM last evening, and heard about pitch developments from those who are organising it, on behalf of those who are funding it, and having shuffled through the mud to get to the meeting (eventually held in Ratcliffe's not the 1907 as the ground is a construction site!) I have no fears whatsoever. What happened in the past needs to stay there, as does the incompetent ***t who used it as an opportunity to self-aggrandise and on who's watch we are in the mess we are in. The here and now screams professionalism, proper contracts and guarantees in place for all stages of the work, daily or bi-daily updates from the contractors to the board, all weather scenarios catered for, and even the use of Accy's ground in the future should any of the planning fail at the COA. Our current drains work. Additional drainage is being added! The problem was the $h1te beneath the turf would not allow excessive rain to drain. Who put that $h1te there? Not commented on by our current directors but we know. There is so much work going on, later in the evening under floodlights. All paid for by the Ogden's
We know charlatans when we see them. We've rooted them out and kicked their backsides out of the COA.
The Ogden investment in the club is the real deal. UP THE DALE.
Excellent post - the whole Club operation is so much more professional.
I think the director's comment was that the cause was probably a mixture of poor construction, materials and maintenance.
It was also salutary to hear (if I heard correctly) that whilst the current substrata work might last 20-25 years, the top surface would have needed relaying in 5 years but further work this Summer to relay the turf would extend that by 10 years?
I think you're making stuff up a bit here. The expert in the video hasn't mentioned a maximum 10 year life for the pitch. Are you also suggesting that Spotland has it's own micro climate that is different to surrounding local amateur pitches and Boundary Park which is literally walking distance from our ground? Even if it did top the rainfall table it wouldn't be so significant to see the pitch perform so poorly in comparison to those so close. If the drains etc aren't in particularly bad condition then commonsense would suggest that the pitch might not have been looked after correctly over the years. That's just an assumption though but the posibility of poor pitch work has to also be considered going forward. The way the club has been run down over the years, it wouldn't be a surprise. These people working on the pitch will be able to work out why the pitch has imploded and i'd be surprised if it's down to rainfall which is unique to Rochdale. If that's the case then we would need the best drainage in the Country to feel confident of solving the problem.
[Post edited 15 Dec 21:03]
I wouldn't say it hasn't been looked after properly as you'd imagine the aggregate under the pitch would need to allow water to run through, like a pea gravel, or an aggregate all similar sized, so that it doesn't compact. If you imagine an MOT subbase that is used for prep for a concrete base in say and extension or conservatory, this aggregate is made up of various sizes so they all fit within each other and will comapact to make it solid. whereas, a pea gravel type aggregate all of similar size, can't compact thus allowing water to run through. Once that aggregate is in, and if it isn't suitable, there would be very little a groundsman could do to ensure water reaches the drains, apart from the verti draining that pierces right through the aggregate to the drains, but you can imagine how hard that would be to guarantee success.
Now we have this company on board, who it seems know what they are doing, who will ensure an appropriate aggregate is used to allow that water to flow through to the drains. They have told us already the issue and how much the water flowed through previously and what they are hoping to achieve now. The fact that they are adding more drainage to the already existing drainage, which didn't seem to be a problem, can only be a good thing.
I would imagine there is a life span given due to the gaps between the aggregate filling up over time, stopping water flowing through. This is what has probably happened now, but we didn't have the start we are hoping for this time, hence why it hasn't lasted as long as this pitch is predicted to.
I do recall, I think, that when our pitch was done a few years back it had a tendency to drain too quickly, so it probably served it's purpose for a short while. Let's hope this one lasts as predicted.
Having attended the Shareholders AGM last evening, and heard about pitch developments from those who are organising it, on behalf of those who are funding it, and having shuffled through the mud to get to the meeting (eventually held in Ratcliffe's not the 1907 as the ground is a construction site!) I have no fears whatsoever. What happened in the past needs to stay there, as does the incompetent ***t who used it as an opportunity to self-aggrandise and on who's watch we are in the mess we are in. The here and now screams professionalism, proper contracts and guarantees in place for all stages of the work, daily or bi-daily updates from the contractors to the board, all weather scenarios catered for, and even the use of Accy's ground in the future should any of the planning fail at the COA. Our current drains work. Additional drainage is being added! The problem was the $h1te beneath the turf would not allow excessive rain to drain. Who put that $h1te there? Not commented on by our current directors but we know. There is so much work going on, later in the evening under floodlights. All paid for by the Ogden's
We know charlatans when we see them. We've rooted them out and kicked their backsides out of the COA.
The Ogden investment in the club is the real deal. UP THE DALE.
Thanks for your post. As suspected, the wrong stuff thrown on the pitch. I was told a couple of years ago that the wrong sand had been thrown on the pitch, probably the stuff that solidifies when it becomes wet. A pitch is only as good as the groundsman who looks after it. I'm assuming our current groundsman is proficient in his job.
I wouldn't say it hasn't been looked after properly as you'd imagine the aggregate under the pitch would need to allow water to run through, like a pea gravel, or an aggregate all similar sized, so that it doesn't compact. If you imagine an MOT subbase that is used for prep for a concrete base in say and extension or conservatory, this aggregate is made up of various sizes so they all fit within each other and will comapact to make it solid. whereas, a pea gravel type aggregate all of similar size, can't compact thus allowing water to run through. Once that aggregate is in, and if it isn't suitable, there would be very little a groundsman could do to ensure water reaches the drains, apart from the verti draining that pierces right through the aggregate to the drains, but you can imagine how hard that would be to guarantee success.
Now we have this company on board, who it seems know what they are doing, who will ensure an appropriate aggregate is used to allow that water to flow through to the drains. They have told us already the issue and how much the water flowed through previously and what they are hoping to achieve now. The fact that they are adding more drainage to the already existing drainage, which didn't seem to be a problem, can only be a good thing.
I would imagine there is a life span given due to the gaps between the aggregate filling up over time, stopping water flowing through. This is what has probably happened now, but we didn't have the start we are hoping for this time, hence why it hasn't lasted as long as this pitch is predicted to.
I do recall, I think, that when our pitch was done a few years back it had a tendency to drain too quickly, so it probably served it's purpose for a short while. Let's hope this one lasts as predicted.
It would be interesting to see if the pitch company cover the substrate with the Geo fabric that they used to wrap the drainage pipes with.. This Geo Fabric stops the higher levels of soils etc from washing away... It would be interesting to hear if they have or not...
It would be interesting to see if the pitch company cover the substrate with the Geo fabric that they used to wrap the drainage pipes with.. This Geo Fabric stops the higher levels of soils etc from washing away... It would be interesting to hear if they have or not...
I think that’s terram, but I could be wrong. It’s usually used to prevent weeds interfering, so not sure it would have the required impact for what you say. I could be a mile off with that, but it would make sense around the pipes to stop vegetation intruding…
I think that’s terram, but I could be wrong. It’s usually used to prevent weeds interfering, so not sure it would have the required impact for what you say. I could be a mile off with that, but it would make sense around the pipes to stop vegetation intruding…
You are thinking of weed surpressing fabric which works in a similar way but Geo Fabric is solely in use to stop the finer aggregates from filtering through and blocking the drainage systems..
I think the video shows the drainage pipes and the white fabic which the pipes willbe covered in... Anyway lets hope that everything that this company installs and works.
You are thinking of weed surpressing fabric which works in a similar way but Geo Fabric is solely in use to stop the finer aggregates from filtering through and blocking the drainage systems..
I think the video shows the drainage pipes and the white fabic which the pipes willbe covered in... Anyway lets hope that everything that this company installs and works.
They've done this sort of work at iconic stadiums around the world, renowned experts. I don't think 'hope' will come into it. The cost is tremendous, i don't have any doubts that the finished job will be perfect. Remember it will be Summer 26 when everything is finally up to spec and completed, it wont be next month. The consultants are based in Manchester, any teething problems they are just up the road.
They've done this sort of work at iconic stadiums around the world, renowned experts. I don't think 'hope' will come into it. The cost is tremendous, i don't have any doubts that the finished job will be perfect. Remember it will be Summer 26 when everything is finally up to spec and completed, it wont be next month. The consultants are based in Manchester, any teething problems they are just up the road.
[Post edited 17 Dec 11:49]
Correct TS
The Ogdens are capable of accessing the required expertise
Neither 'hope' nor 'heroics' required, just professionalism
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